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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 12/28/2003 9:46:03 AM EDT
This has to do with the story of the man getting beat in front of a Walmart.  If you were in that guys position what would you do?  Take that you are now outside the store and the kid with the bat is already questioning you.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:48:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 9:48:56 AM EDT by MAC-DADDY]
I would probably get arrested.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:58:20 AM EDT
i guess i missed the first part of this. But going on the info posted

Kid with bat just beat someone down now approaching me.

Draw and give warning assuming he is more than 10-15' away. If he decides to swing BANG. He has shown intent to do bodily harm and proven he will do it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:04:24 AM EDT
Here's some more info on how I remember it.  Feel free to correct any mistakes.  This guy suposively cuts in line in front of this kids sister.  When leaving the store he sees a group of people start following him.  The kid with a bat sets in front of him and asks him was he said to the kids sister.  The guy grabs the bat, then someone punches him.  I was wondering what you would do if you were in the the guys situation.  Starting from the kid questioning you.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:04:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:08:32 AM EDT
I'd tell him that I favor reparations.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:12:54 AM EDT
It was in Illinois, so you don't have a gun, because there's no CCW.
The story I heard was as many as 10 people going after this guy, with maybe 5 hitters and the rest screaming women.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:14:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By raven:
I'd tell him that I favor reparations.
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Got that right!![ROFL2]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:16:58 AM EDT
You're killin' me Raven!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:17:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xj9598:
Here's some more info on how I remember it.  Feel free to correct any mistakes.  This guy suposively cuts in line in front of this kids sister.  When leaving the store he sees a group of people start following him.  The kid with a bat sets in front of him and asks him was he said to the kids sister.  The guy grabs the bat, then someone punches him.  I was wondering what you would do if you were in the the guys situation.  Starting from the kid questioning you.
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Not quite accurate.  Guy made comments to some women who cut in line in front of HIM.  They got upset, he dropped it.  

After a 1/2 hour in line, he and his friend leave, that's when the group of guys approach him right outside the entrance, the rest of the story is as XJ said.  BTW, the Wal-mart security type did nothing to intervene.

If I was carrying, I would have at least put hand on pistol when boy with bat approached me and told him to stand down, then taken it from there.  Looks like that's not an option for the good people of Illinois.  
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:28:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By madman_kirk:
Don't bring a baseball bat to a knife fight. nuff said. mmk
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DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY!!!!
your're KIDDING right?I would beat your ASS with a bat if you attacked me with a knife.(no offense given to you personally as I have NOTHING against you,just an observation)
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:39:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:44:37 AM EDT
good point.but odds are in favor of the guy with the bat.If he/she DID miss,I'm SURE you could "fillet" them nicely.(think cross-cut to the intestines spilling them out on the ground)
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 10:49:23 AM EDT
As I remember the story the kid grabbed the bat. I would have yaked it away and beaten the perp and any of the others that wanted to play till their skulls were caved in. Claim emotional distress afterward.

CW
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:41:56 AM EDT
Hard to say, since I don't really know any distances involved and that would determine what makes the best idea (if you screwed up so badly that you're surrounded and in grabbing distance all around, making a play for your CCW might not be the smartest thing).

If he's at the head of a mini-mob, all to my front, my hand goes to my pistol. If he's already in charging distance and/or keeps coming, he gets a muzzle indexed at the C of his M. Any further aggression results in my taking legal action to end the assault on my person.

If I screwed up and he's already in my face and/or I'm in a place that doesn't let me carry, I crowd the bat arm so he can't get a full swing and he gets a good solid heel stomp to his groin, crest of his hip, side of his knee or shin, followed by as hard a straight-up chin jab as I can generate (which is pretty hard). Then I run like hell before I get mobbed unless it's only one or two others with him, in which case I go to town with the bat before anyone can produce a weapon. *Then* I run like hell to a safe place and, depending on the neighborhood and/or my residency and/or my status in the community, I call the cops and report the attack on my person.

Or I just shriek like a 6-year-old girl, wet my pants and pray to Jeebus for salvation. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 12:51:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MAC-DADDY:
Originally Posted By madman_kirk:
Don't bring a baseball bat to a knife fight. nuff said. mmk
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DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONALLY!!!!
your're KIDDING right?I would beat your ASS with a bat if you attacked me with a knife.(no offense given to you personally as I have NOTHING against you,just an observation)
View Quote


MAC-DADDY,
Once again, don't take it personally, but with that kind of one sided thinking, you had better hope that you are never put into a situation in which you have a bat, and the other guy is well versed in the art of knife fighting.

As far as the Walmart situation goes, no one knows exactly what happened out side in the parking lot, so it's really hard to comment on it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:07:41 PM EDT
Just another good reason to live in a carry state.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:26:02 PM EDT
A baseball bat is a VERY Dangerous weapon, if used in that manner!!

One good hit to the head, w/ a bat, and that may very well be lights out for good.

10 on 2, that's what it sounds like here will get you killed or seriously hurt.  If I could not get away, the Sig-239 (carry gun)  would come out.

I live in VT, so the 239 would be on me!
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 2:50:50 PM EDT
Or better yet, don't shop where the idiots shop.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:22:34 PM EDT
hmmmm... large group of armed thugs, no concealed carry allowed... turn and run back into the store, yell for someone to call the police, and head for the sporting goods section? no, maybe auto parts. sneak into the back room, get on forklift and then chase them unitl police arrive.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 3:48:25 PM EDT
I would focus on the guy with the bat and hit him with everything I had.  Worked the last time, it was the last thing he and the rest of them expected.  If you are going down, you may as well leave some carnage behind.  I was fighting for my life.  I made it.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:17:15 PM EDT
I'll have to wait until they release the tapes from inside the store before I start condemning what he did.  According to the police, only the 15 year old had a bat.  And according to the guy that got beat, he took the bat from the kid and then the father hit him. If tapes show that this guy that got beat even touched his daughter while they were in the store, I don't blame him one bit.

As far as the bat/knife part of the discussion.  A bat is far easier to defend against.  Most of the time, people swing a bat like they are playing baseball.  Therefore both of their hands a tied up with the bat.  To have an effective swing and aim, you have to plant your feet.  This limits you even further.  And then you only have less than a one foot length of the end of the bat that is effective for hitting. Partly due to this same reason, it is also better to be on the inside of a swing than on the outside. Usually if they are close enough to hit you, you should be able to take one step inside and be out of the range of the bat.  This is all based on the fact that you are still standing.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:28:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By serrada:
I'll have to wait until they release the tapes from inside the store before I start condemning what he did.  According to the police, only the 15 year old had a bat.  And according to the guy that got beat, he took the bat from the kid and then the father hit him. If tapes show that this guy that got beat even touched his daughter while they were in the store, I don't blame him one bit.

As far as the bat/knife part of the discussion.  A bat is far easier to defend against.  Most of the time, people swing a bat like they are playing baseball.  Therefore both of their hands a tied up with the bat.  To have an effective swing and aim, you have to plant your feet.  This limits you even further.  And then you only have less than a one foot length of the end of the bat that is effective for hitting. Partly due to this same reason, it is also better to be on the inside of a swing than on the outside. Usually if they are close enough to hit you, you should be able to take one step inside and be out of the range of the bat.  This is all based on the fact that you are still standing.
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Ditto.  I'm sure the whole story has yet to be revealed.  I personally would rather defend against a bat with a knife than vice versa given the way normal people are prone to fight with a bat... but that's just me.  

With those odds, whatever weapon I had on me (or was available at arms reach) would've been employed as soon as I saw the bat and realized he meant to use it, which would hopefully be before, not after the fact.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:05:17 PM EDT
I saw this kid on TV who got beat...

First thing there is NO Conceal Carry In Illinois nor Open Carry.

No handguns allowed to be owned in Chicago since 1982.

Gang bangers and teenagers are the only ones carrying in Illinois.

That is why they have baseball bats and hammers...

Sports and tools supposedly are the cover story, instead of the real intent to use these as weapons.

The four kids jumped him outside of Wal-Mart and he pleaded with them that he was defenseless.

This is the same crap when all these women get rape and beaten on the North side of Chicago.  Police advice - Walk in pairs.

I have no advice for anyone living in Chicago because you are not allowed to protect yourself if you are a honest law abiding citizen.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:34:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 6:38:57 PM EDT by Dave_A]
If your gonna fight someone who has a bat, dodge the initial swing and then get yourself inside the shank-radius of the bat...

Bats are effective weapons if you hit someone near the heavy end (which is moving at the highest speed). Hit someone near your grip, and loose your bat...

Second, if you're gonna touch the bat, make sure you come away with it...

As for bat vs knife, it's the same as bat vs fists or gun vs knife: The bat-wielder has it in his best interest to keep his opponent's body no closer than the tip of his bat. The knife wielder has it in his best interest to get inside the 'minimum effective' range (shank-of-bat) without getting knocked down or loosing his knife.

On a side note, this would be a perfect scenario for some bear spray if guns are illegal but OC is not...
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:16:15 PM EDT
What would I do?  

Not live in Chicago.

Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:29:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Doctor_Chicago:
I saw this kid on TV who got beat...

First thing there is NO Conceal Carry In Illinois nor Open Carry.

No handguns allowed to be owned in Chicago since 1982.

Gang bangers and teenagers are the only ones carrying in Illinois.

That is why they have baseball bats and hammers...

Sports and tools supposedly are the cover story, instead of the real intent to use these as weapons.

The four kids jumped him outside of Wal-Mart and he pleaded with them that he was defenseless.

This is the same crap when all these women get rape and beaten on the North side of Chicago.  Police advice - Walk in pairs.

I have no advice for anyone living in Chicago because you are not allowed to protect yourself if you are a honest law abiding citizen.

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FYI: I read the original news story. The guy that got beaten was with other people when it happened, and also there were several bystanders that did nothing.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:32:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 8:33:25 PM EDT by Jetlag]
1. Avoid bat

2. Acquire bat

3. <[i]Signs[/i], by M. Night Shyamalan>[i]Swing away![/i]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 8:43:38 PM EDT
There is a Lennell Geer associated with Ability One Corporation, maybe as a retiree or employee. Ability One is HQ'd in Bolingbrook, IL. Is Bolingbrook near the Walmart?

Also, does anyone have a link to photo of Lennell. I want to check something.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:21:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SGTIMAK:
Originally Posted By serrada:
I'll have to wait until they release the tapes from inside the store before I start condemning what he did.  According to the police, only the 15 year old had a bat.  And according to the guy that got beat, he took the bat from the kid and then the father hit him. If tapes show that this guy that got beat even touched his daughter while they were in the store, I don't blame him one bit.

As far as the bat/knife part of the discussion.  A bat is far easier to defend against.  Most of the time, people swing a bat like they are playing baseball.  Therefore both of their hands a tied up with the bat.  To have an effective swing and aim, you have to plant your feet.  This limits you even further.  And then you only have less than a one foot length of the end of the bat that is effective for hitting. Partly due to this same reason, it is also better to be on the inside of a swing than on the outside. Usually if they are close enough to hit you, you should be able to take one step inside and be out of the range of the bat.  This is all based on the fact that you are still standing.
View Quote


Ditto.  I'm sure the whole story has yet to be revealed.  I personally would rather defend against a bat with a knife than vice versa given the way normal people are prone to fight with a bat... but that's just me.  

With those odds, whatever weapon I had on me (or was available at arms reach) would've been employed as soon as I saw the bat and realized he meant to use it, which would hopefully be before, not after the fact.
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Proper 'I wanna keep it' bat-as-weapon use is similar to proper AR-15 (I don't wanna break it) butt-stroking technique... Either that, or use a one-handed golf/polo swing...
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:33:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:45:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RealFastV6:
What would I do?  

Not live in Chicago.

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No Doubt.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 9:50:33 PM EDT
There comes a time when all free men (even in non-CCW states) must decide whether to carry or not.  I did for years before we became a shall issue state.
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