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Posted: 5/15/2002 11:43:02 PM EST
Out Indian Mascots"


[b]Calif. May Force Out Indian Mascots[/b]

Wed May 15, 5:02 PM ET
By KIM BACA, Associated Press Writer

FRESNO, Calif. (AP) - California may become first state to force nearly all public schools to drop American Indian team names and mascots such as Redskins, Chiefs and Apaches.

Indians have taken their fight to the Legislature, where a bill to outlaw such names was approved Wednesday in its last committee test before going to a vote in the Assembly.

The bill would force name changes at elementary, middle and high schools as well as community colleges and the University of California and California State University systems.

Outlawed would be Redskins, Indians, Braves, Chiefs, Apaches, and Comanches, as well as any other American Indian tribal name.

Under the legislation, a state commission would then add to the banned list any other names it decides are "derogatory or discriminatory against any race, ethnicity, nationality or tribal group," and schools would be forced to comply.

Schools across the country have been reviewing and often dropping mascot names amid increasing sensitivity about racial stereotypes. But such decisions are usually made by individual schools or school boards.

Supporters of California's bill said it is a question better resolved at the state level.

"When it's decided locally, it can be really divisive, it can be incredibly time-consuming," said Lori Nelson of the Alliance Against Racial Mascots, a coalition of civil rights groups in California. "The people who are arguing for the change are usually the minority and what happens to a lot of native kids, they are targeted by the school. They are harassed and pulled out of class."

Critics call it political correctness gone too far. They say the names are meant to honor Indians, and even some American Indians express pride in mascots that depict their heritage.

"I'm finding that people are not feeling offended by it," said Jennifer George, a Hoopa tribe member and principal of Hoopa Elementary School, about 100 miles from the Oregon line. The Hoopa Braves would be spared under the bill, which exempts schools on reservations.

Assemblyman Richard Dickerson, a Republican from Redding, said the issue should be resolved locally. After all, he said, some American Indians in his district would like to keep their mascots.

"If we begin to write pieces of legislation try to make sure no group of people is offended by the actions of another group, my question is where would it stop?" he said.

As the bill now stands, about 100 California schools would be forced to change names, including 26 Braves, 11 Chiefs, 55 Indians and 4 Redskins. California also has 85 Warriors, which would be barred if a school combines the name with an identifiably Indian mascot.

More crap...>>>


They got their damm precious casinos already, Kalidiot schools should get to keep their team names.  

Soon, the Army might have to find a new name for the "Apache" and "Comanche" helos.  The "Warthog's" might also start to complain.  After all, no warthog ( animal ) I've ever seen had a 30mmm cannon stuck on it's nose.

This reminds me of that wooden indian that guards the cigarette store controversy.
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 11:54:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/15/2002 11:55:15 PM EST
If your logged in it should be on the top of this thread...that is what your talking about right?
Link Posted: 5/16/2002 12:11:23 AM EST
If your logged in it should be on the top of this thread...that is what your talking about right?
View Quote

Ya, I forgot you already had to have made a topic.

Link Posted: 5/18/2002 11:24:10 PM EST
I'm from the Cleveland Ohio area and our baseball team the INDIANS were named in honor of the first Native American Indian to play major league baseball. His name escapes me for the moment but he was a Penoscob Indian from Maine. Why wouldn't people not like that?
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:32:49 AM EST
I read another article in which some wacky bitch also wanted to ban the use of animals names for teams.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:46:04 AM EST
Lets just name them something that is real evil in the eyes of Kalifornians...



Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:59:24 AM EST
In Frisco TX they made a school change their mascot form the Coons to the Raccoons. The fighting Coons!
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 8:03:55 AM EST
I propose naming teams after vegetables.  The Sacramento Pimentos; The Oakland Okra; The Los Angeles Legumes; the Tucson Turnips.  Then they could branch out into vegetable-based dishes: The San Francisco Nut and Sprout Salad.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 2:56:02 AM EST
In Frisco TX they made a school change their mascot form the Coons to the Raccoons. The fighting Coons!
View Quote

POS Rev. Al "Fatty" Sharpton must have led the charge on that one.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 3:22:29 AM EST
For once Cali seems to be doing something right.  How many of you would do a scimitar(sp) chop at a game?  How many would want to support a team called the Boston Serbians, Would the Atlanta Spearchuckers be offensive?  How about the Cincy nappyheads, The New York Towlheads perhaps?  

The bottom line is that modern American culture wants to have its cake and eat it too. Wouldnt it be so nice if the all the dam indians would just go away and then you wouldnt have to deal with things like sports mascots, and Running bear in the movies could just say UGH and no one would have to pay a real native to act.  
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:40:14 AM EST
In Frisco TX they made a school change their mascot form the Coons to the Raccoons. The fighting Coons!
View Quote

Funny, my ex lives there and was telling me about that....ANOTHER thing to argue about...lol.  You know, I hate it when you have to marry someone before they show their inner LIBERAL....[puke]

But hey....the [sex] was great...lol.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:14:33 AM EST
"Assemblyperson" Jackie Goldberg is one of the most liberal of liberals in the Calif. lower house. She was at the point on many of the liberal issues such as gun control & increasing taxes.

Los Angeles Times: Mascot Bill May Snare Normans, Saxons Too


Mascot Bill May Snare Normans, Saxons Too
Education: Measure to ban team names deemed offensive could affect hundreds of

May 6 2002

To John O'Brien, principal of Torrance High, his school has "a harmless
nickname": the Tartars.

The name, chosen almost 80 years ago, mostly for its alliteration quotient,
refers to the Turkic and Mongolian peoples who invaded Eastern Europe in the
Middle Ages. The fact that Tartars are a people long gone, O'Brien said, is an
added bonus. "It doesn't create big issues."

At least, not yet. If Assemblywoman Jackie Goldberg has her way, there might be
no Tartars--or, for that matter, Vikings, Romans or Moors--left in California.

A bill sponsored by Goldberg--prompted by a long-standing debate about team
names and mascots associated with Native Americans--would allow the State Board
of Education or the California Postsecondary Education Commission to ban any
public school team name, mascot or nickname they deem derogatory or
discriminatory against a race, ethnicity, nationality or tribal group.

And though it may be unlikely that the board would toss out the Tartars, news of
the bill last week took many a Norman and Saxon by surprise.

"Geez," said Robert Hinojosa, principal of Huntington Park High School, about
the possibility that his Normans might have to go the way of, well, the Normans.
"I'm an ethnic minority, and I would not want to slur or slander people. But at
some point, where do we draw our lines?"

Michael Leininger, principal of La Canada High School, said the only problem
he's ever heard concerning the school's team name is that some people don't know
what a Spartan is.

"It was a warrior," he said. "But it was also ... just like Californians: people
who lived in a certain state in ancient times."

Indeed, Sparta, the Greek city-state renowned for its militaristic might,
reached the height of its power in the 6th century BC and disappeared a few
hundred years later.

Today, examples abound of cultures that vanished long ago, only to be
resurrected in the 20th century as logos on school stationery and football
helmets. At the high school level alone, there are the Alhambra Moors, the
Beverly Hills Normans, the Loara Saxons in Anaheim--and too many Spartans and
Vikings to count.

-- continued --
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:15:52 AM EST
But if Goldberg, a Los Angeles Democrat, had her choice in the matter, there
would be no human mascots whatsoever.

"My own personal view is that there are too many animals, symbols and colors
that won't offend anybody," she said. "I would always err on the side of

Under the provisions of the bill, anyone finding the mascot of a California
public school offensive may complain to one of two state boards. Those boards
may add the name to a list of banned mascots or let it be if, for example, they
decide that a Gaucho is not offensive and its portrayal not demeaning.

The boards, Goldberg said, "are sensitive to a multicultural and multiethnic
society. If they felt [a team name] rose to the level of degradation, I would
imagine they would add them to the list."

Schools with team names that allude to Native Americans have long struggled to
balance school tradition with cultural sensitivity. Many principals say they
have watched colleagues debate the merits of names such as Braves and Redskins,
retool cartoonish or fierce logos and sometimes rename their teams altogether.

Those principals felt a small measure of relief that their own team names
escaped dispute. But yet, there are hundreds of elementary schools, high schools
and colleges that may soon confront the kind of controversy more associated with
the Sioux than the Scots.

Torrance Principal O'Brien said the names of ancient cultures used to be a "safe
bet. In our district, we have the South High Spartans and the North High Saxons.
Nowadays, no matter what name you pick, it's very challenging."

The worst slur against the Tartars, he observed, is not even a racial one. Fish
jokes are common as opponents threaten to "make Tartar sauce."

Though many team names are chosen for obvious reasons--consider the Sultana
Sultans or the John F. Kennedy High School Fighting Irish--often, the historical
or geographical reasons for team names have become obscured by the passage of
time and shifting Southland demographics.

Coachella Valley High School picked the Arabs because the area is rich with date
trees imported from the Middle East. The Hollywood High School Sheiks were named
in homage to the 1921 Rudolph Valentino movie. And Rim of the World High School
in Lake Arrowhead chose the "Fighting Scots" because the school, on the edge of
Highway 18, feels as if it's perched in the Scottish Highlands.

"Highlanders seemed a natural thing to be," said Principal Walt Harris, who has
worked at the school for many years. "But there were already several Highlanders
as mascots. So they went to the Fighting Scots. The Fighting Scots were
tribesmen, they were brave.... I frankly look at people who object to that, and
I think they are missing the point."

Names chosen because of the warrior-like images they conjure up--the Moors,
after all, invaded Spain in the 8th century--are criticized for the warrior-like
images they conjure up.

-- continued --
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:16:56 AM EST
Earlier this year, Sonoma State University replaced its team name, the Cossacks,
with the less militaristic Seawolves after students and community leaders
complained that the first name honored a Russian ethnic group famed for
mercenary work on behalf of the czars."The Cossacks no longer serve as a
unifying symbol," Sonoma State President Ruben Arminana said in a press release
at the time.

Michel Shehadeh, West Coast regional director of the American-Arab
Anti-Discrimination Committee, agrees that mascots can reinforce negative
stereotypes. "When you dehumanize people as images or characters, it becomes OK
to hurt them."

Goldberg echoed that concern. "If you want to honor a people, find a famous
Scotsman and name the school after him. Or pick an important leader in the
Cherokee or Apache nation. Making [a tribe] a mascot is not an honor."

Goldberg's bill, AB 2115, has passed the Assembly Education and Higher Education
committees, but it must still clear the Assembly and Senate before reaching the
desk of Gov. Gray Davis, who has taken no position on the measure. Opposition to
the bill so far has been meager, in part because of the power, or perceived
power, of North American tribes and Native American activists backing it.

And although turning Saxons into Sharks might be seen as a pragmatic move in
some circles, even the most innocuous names can have unexpected implications.

The Sonoma Seawolves were intended to allude to Jack London's classic novel.
However, seawolf can have a militaristic meaning too, as several letters to a
local newspaper suggested. It was the nickname for a Nazi U-Boat commander.

If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at
latimes.com/archives. For information about reprinting this article, go to
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 8:31:22 AM EST
It seems to me that Kali always want to do something stupid in hopes of getting everyone to follow. They should claim their own independence and become their own nation. Kommifornia, kaliraq, kalistinian. Those are just a few names they can take. Maybe all those earthquakes shake their brains up and they can't think straight, who knows.
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