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Posted: 12/16/2010 11:26:55 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 12/16/2010 11:27:32 PM EDT
[#2]
War Against Terror: Lots of mercy and building schools and hospitals and singing koombaya
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Posted: 12/16/2010 11:28:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Thats how you win a war, its not pretty, but its the only way to do it.
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Posted: 12/16/2010 11:33:48 PM EDT
[#4]
They're LUCKY they got shot, compared to how their fellow countrymen treated our boys as POWs.
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Posted: 12/16/2010 11:41:07 PM EDT
[#5]
shark food.... |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 12:16:00 AM EDT
[#6]
We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull.
Pluckmaster |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:28:09 AM EDT
[#7]
They didn't deserve mercy. Fuck 'em.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:55:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Awaiting the sissy "due process" people to chime in.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:02:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Dude that's so fucking horrible. That's just not right. .50 cal rounds are expensive.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:17:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Dude that's so fucking horrible. That's just not right. .50 cal rounds are expensive. At first I was like 
But then I   
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:42:15 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull. Pluckmaster These people have to want to come out of the "dark ages." This concept of exporting democracy and "freedom" doesn't work for a people who have no clue what it is. You're are right, though, going in guns blazing is a most shitty strategy. Most of these are peasant farmers or sheepherders. They just want to go about their life. The root problem is the financiers of terrorism. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:00:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
They're LUCKY they got shot, compared to how their fellow countrymen treated our boys as POWs. I don't want to even try to imagine what the Japaneese did to our guys. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:05:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They're LUCKY they got shot, compared to how their fellow countrymen treated our boys as POWs. I don't want to even try to imagine what the Japaneese did to our guys. Unit 731 |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:20:46 AM EDT
[#14]
They burned POWs alive. They buried them alive. The killed them and aite them. They hung them. They executed them by firing squad, sword and handgun. They tied weights to their legs and threw them overboard while at sea. They bashed their heads in with clubs and rifle butts. They bayonetted them. They took swords and dismembered them.
I have no problem with anything our service men did after confronting evidence of the atrocities the Japanese military did to their friends and fellow service men. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:34:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:37:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. I've toured through a WWII era sub. A submarine barely has space for the crew. They don't have room to bring a bunch of prisoners on board. I suppose letting them die a drawn out, excrutiating death from exposure would have been more to your liking? 
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:38:29 AM EDT
[#17]
War is hell
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:53:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
War is hell They insisted on sowing the wind, so it was their fate to reap the whirlwind. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 3:55:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull. Pluckmaster pfft who cares about your logic and expierience on this matter. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:09:27 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:22:25 AM EDT
[#21]
We won because we did whatever we had to do to win..........we defeated a foe that was willing to go far beyond what we did to win.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:25:00 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
They didn't deserve mercy. Fuck 'em. Agreed. ETA : The last Jap shown in that clip blew him self up with a grenade. Good shoot. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:39:43 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. Maybe the Jap's should have taken a bit of thier own advise. Dont ya' think ? After finding out how they treated our pow's, I'd have done the same thing given the chance. Fuck 'em. Gun 'em down.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:46:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. The Japanese were the ones that bastardized bushido, to suit their means. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:54:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. Maybe the Jap's should have taken a bit of thier own advise. Dont ya' think ? After finding out how they treated our pow's, I'd have done the same thing given the chance. Fuck 'em. Gun 'em down. in war, if you dont fight just as hard or as fierce as the enemy. YOU WILL LOOSE. the japs were willing to fight to the very end. the sooner you end their life, he sooner you win the war. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 4:55:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
We won because we did whatever we had to do to win..........we defeated a foe that was willing to go far beyond what we did to win. They were willing to go beyond, untill we vaporized two of their cities! lessons we should have learned, and repeated! 
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:03:56 AM EDT
[#27]
I can understand the limited space in subs made the "no survivors" rule necessary the same as on German U-boats but saw no need to kill the Jap survivors in the water. A better "revenge" would have been to have left them in the water to their own devices. The sinking of their ship was plenty good enough for morale. I don't think the vid with the Japs being shot by men relishing their work is anything to be proud of.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:04:11 AM EDT
[#28]
If they had wanted to be real cruel they would have let the sum bitches live and die of drowning, I don't suppose there is much spare room on the sub so it was showing them mercy, to kill them.
Might dad had no use for them after what he saw in the war. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:16:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I can understand the limited space in subs made the "no survivors" rule necessary the same as on German U-boats but saw no need to kill the Jap survivors in the water. A better "revenge" would have been to have left them in the water to their own devices. The sinking of their ship was plenty good enough for morale. I don't think the vid with the Japs being shot by men relishing their work is anything to be proud of. they could be picked up by another jap ship, and fight another day. what our soldiers did was necessary to win. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:24:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I can understand the limited space in subs made the "no survivors" rule necessary the same as on German U-boats but saw no need to kill the Jap survivors in the water. A better "revenge" would have been to have left them in the water to their own devices. The sinking of their ship was plenty good enough for morale. I don't think the vid with the Japs being shot by men relishing their work is anything to be proud of. It's easy to look back and think about what you would have done. But you weren't there. You didn't have the experiences those soldiers had. Put yourself in a real world situation. A guy comes out of an alley way and starts shooting at you, and your wife, and your kids. He's carrying a revolver and only manages to hit your daughter in the leg and is now out of bullets. What do you do? Stand there and say "Well since you're out of bullets I guess I'll just let you be."? If so, thank GOD you were not a soldier in WWII. Personally, I'd blow their damn heads off. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:31:46 AM EDT
[#31]
I believe they were shot b/c when they tried to pull the first guy out he pulled a pistol and started shooting at our boys. They wanted to die.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:32:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull. Pluckmaster How dare you bring that up! We've got our dicks hard with bloodlust, and here you are reminding us of our role as the good guys. Worse, there are a lot of Muslims shedding their blood right along with our troops to fight the shitbag terrorists, risking their lives and those of their families. It's all so confusing, isn't it? I mean, we all want to jump on a machine gun and mow people down indiscriminately but there's that pesky morality thing. Damn. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:34:15 AM EDT
[#33]
Hard to win a war with rules and morals...
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:35:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Hard to win a war with rules and morals... Exactly. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:40:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. In the beginning we did try to save survivors but after our men were shot or blown up when offering a hand to the survivors, the safety of the crew was more important. They killed a lot of our "harmless" boys. They never gave up and didn't expect us to either. After watching the video, it looks like a lot of "creative" editing to make it appear worse than it probably was. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:40:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull. Pluckmaster WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA? TURN THE MIDDLE EAST INTO GLASS! WHHAAAAARGARBL! 
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:44:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. In the early 1970's we had a survivor of the Bataan Death March as a speaker at our OTS. If you could have heard him you would realize that the words you speak sound good, but have no relevance. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:45:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I can understand the limited space in subs made the "no survivors" rule necessary the same as on German U-boats but saw no need to kill the Jap survivors in the water. A better "revenge" would have been to have left them in the water to their own devices. The sinking of their ship was plenty good enough for morale. I don't think the vid with the Japs being shot by men relishing their work is anything to be proud of. Maybe you'd feel differently if you were in their place, knowing what they did to American prisoners. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:50:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. What a load of horse manure. Have you never read how the Japs treated American and British prisoners? What did Japs know about honor? |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 5:57:28 AM EDT
[#40]
In the words of my grandfather, who, by luck, wasn't aboard the Arizona on Dec. 7, 1941... "Fuck 'em."
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:01:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Whatever you say it is not right to machine gun surviors. We are not animals who lust for revenge. In true Samurai fashion once a enemy is no longer a threat it is a dishonor to kill him, you do not waste your effort killing the harmless. This is one of the main tenants of Bushido. In this situation you have two choices ignore them and let them die or be merciful and toss them a butterknife. The Japanese were the same types of murderous thugs that we've seen for centuries and being riddled with bullets to end their suffering was far too humane, if anything. - BG |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:02:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull. Pluckmaster While I think it's completely counter-productive for counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency to kill and bomb everything. I also think it's pretty naive for us to just ignore the last 3000 years of history in Afghanistan and all of a sudden think we're going to roll in there, unite them all under one banner and bring them to the 20th Century. The problem isn't military might, the problem is Afghan culture. NO ONE has ever been able to govern them. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:05:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
They're LUCKY they got shot, compared to how their fellow countrymen treated our boys as POWs. I think the nail has been hit on the head
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:08:05 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: The root problem is the financiers of terrorism. You mean, like, the Saudi "Royal" Family? |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:18:35 AM EDT
[#45]
The brutality of the submarine war has received little attention compared to other aspects of the conflict in both the Atlantic and Pacific.
Clay Blair, Jr. wrote what I consider the essential books, really more compendiums, on submarine warfare against the Germans and Japanese during World War II. Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan Naval Institute Press: 2001 1071 Pages Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunters, 1939-1942 Modern Library: 2000 848 Pages Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunted, 1942-1945 Modern Library: 2000 944 Pages >> As for the video, the scale of killing portrayed is a fraction of what happened elsewhere during the war, in particular the USS Wahoo's (SS-238) third patrol and the machine gunning of Japanese in the water from the Buyo Maru (link). In the Atlantic, imagine being on a crippled German U-boat coming to the surface, trying to escape the vessel only to be mercilessly fired upon by the Royal Navy in an attempt to prevent the crew from abandoning the boat (so as to prevent scuttling - and enabling the possible recovery of intelligence and codes from the stricken vessel). These things happened, and that is not to say they were wrong or unnecessarily brutal. War is hell. Unfortunately, the term has become cliche, but that does not mean it is untrue. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:25:20 AM EDT
[#46]
From a practical perspective, there is no room on the US sub for prisoners. Also, if a Japanese ship recovers a survivor, they could figure out the US sub's approximate location, speed, and heading.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:31:55 AM EDT
[#47]
IIRC, subs weren't allowed to take prisoners. Other boats could, I think.
Whatever. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:32:06 AM EDT
[#48]
That footage is bullshit. Not that it's not all real, but it's been spliced together to represent something that it is not. I'm not saying that japanese were not machine gunned in the water, I'm just saying if you watch this carefully, you are not seeing what it claims you are. It looks like spliced together footage of men in the water, debris, and gunnery practice.
2:19 man in the water filmed, from a stationary platform 2:20 sailor shooting a BAR - that submarine sure is kicking along pretty fast now! 2:22 now two men in the water, with splashes. If you watch it several times, you can clearly see that someone has thrown them some sort of line - you can see the smaller splash trailing back to the boat. 2:31 Sailors shooting M2 at something hundreds of yards away. 2:35 as another poster mentioned, I've seen this footage before and it claims to be a japanese sailor who blew himself up with a grenade. Japanese sailor blows himself up Another clip of the same footage claims it is a Kamkazi pilot - and clearly shows him blowing himself up. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:34:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Read a few books on the Pacific war......many times Japanese survivors of a sunken ship would swim away from rescuers....better to die for the Emperor than be captured.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 6:34:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
We are not at war with a standing Army, we are at war with a select group of terrorists. Who at this time choose to fight in Afghanistan, so let's go in guns blazing and kill everyone. We are better than that, let's educate and bring these people out of the dark ages. Give them hope and a desire for a better life, then maybe the terrorists will not have anywhere to hide. Are we spending stupid amounts of money doing it "yes", could we do a better job of it "yes". Do I have all the answers "no", but I do believe in what we as a Nation are doing. If given the chance to kill an insurgent hell yes we should destroy them, but when they are embedded in a population of people who for the most part are just trying to get by you have to be a little tactfull. Pluckmaster How dare you bring that up! We've got our dicks hard with bloodlust, and here you are reminding us of our role as the good guys. Worse, there are a lot of Muslims shedding their blood right along with our troops to fight the shitbag terrorists, risking their lives and those of their families. It's all so confusing, isn't it? I mean, we all want to jump on a machine gun and mow people down indiscriminately but there's that pesky morality thing. Damn. thank you... just... for being you 
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