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Posted: 2/18/2008 6:31:59 AM EDT
America only has 1 known ww1 veteran alive, he is 107. America has no national monument to honor these folks. This is one of the wars I truly find fascinating and once this guy dies it will just be secondhand history.
Link Posted: 2/18/2008 12:32:25 PM EDT
And also attached to that is the Russian expeditions that we forget all to easy. I had a great uncle that survived a mustard gas attack.
Link Posted: 2/18/2008 3:49:54 PM EDT
I've been doing a lot of reading on WWI lately (keegan, Moiser, etc) and it's fascinating.
pretty much the entire Europeon order fell apart in 1917/18/19
I mean all of them.
And France had really pretty much fallen apart, it just wasn't obvious until 1940.  Britain had peaked (although not obvious til after WWII) and America pretty much won the war.  Even the Germans admit it.  (The Brits won't, but they had the worst officers of the war)

WWII is only a continuation of WWI and the awful treaty of Versailles.

Link Posted: 2/18/2008 7:59:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:

WWII is only a continuation of WWI and the awful treaty of Versailles.



Don't stop at WWII.
Link Posted: 2/18/2008 9:08:54 PM EDT
WW I gave us the Russian Revolution and the rise of Lenin to power.  But on the other hand, it also gave us the Balfour Declaration which reserved land in the Middle East for Israel (which isn't a bad thing).  
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 4:32:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:

WWII is only a continuation of WWI and the awful treaty of Versailles.



Don't stop at WWII.


true enough
Reasonable argument to be made that the war begun in 1914 certainly isn't over yet.
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 8:00:35 AM EDT
and that war (1914) also was a continuation..............a Muslim shot Archeduke Ferdinand of Austria in what country????  Heck, we're still fighting the Crusades
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 8:16:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2008 8:17:54 AM EDT by HeckThomas]
Yeah myself being a christian came from reading history, ww1 got the turks out of Israel, The Brits failure at Galipoli finished the Russians hope for an end to the turkish blockade which in turn allowed the Bolsheviks to seize power ending the reign of the Czars but also one of the largest christian nations.

The Armenians got slaughtered.

WW2 opened the doors to the Jewish people returning to Israel.

Yeah hardly anything is ever mentioned about our invasion of Russia, but it's one of the reasons the soviets did not trust us, but we were right for invading.

Another funny note is, one of the reasons Stalin wanted to invade Japan in 1945 was because Japan seized a small Russian (controlled) Island in 1918. Many Europeans have grudges that go back for centurys.

It would have been nice if an American memorial was made while many of our doughboys were still around.
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 8:28:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:

WWII is only a continuation of WWI and the awful treaty of Versailles.



Don't stop at WWII.



yup.  time out has been called.  but somehow mass decay will happen again, and we will be involved.  
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 8:29:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2008 8:34:04 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
What the heck, seems nobody ever bothered to pay much attention to one of the few 2 time CMH winners and WW1 veteran Smedley Bulter when he wrote "War is a Racket" either..... definately a shame these forgotten warriors - how much better off we'd be today had we bothered to listen to their words of wisdom.

mike

eta - Smedley Butler
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 9:17:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJetwrench:
And also attached to that is the Russian expeditions that we forget all to easy. I had a great uncle that survived a mustard gas attack.



Originally Posted By HeckThomas:

...

Yeah hardly anything is ever mentioned about our invasion of Russia, but it's one of the reasons the soviets did not trust us, but we were right for invading.

...



I currently writing a paper titled "The Forsaken Front" which discusses the allied intervention in North Russia and Siberia.  Which seems largely and wrongly ignored in discussions of the Great War when compared with the events of the western front. I'll see if I can change that in the dreaded five to eight double spaced page format, but I'm not holding my breath. Interestingly enough the intervention has great relevance in the field of American Soviet relations, so its puzzling to me that its ignored such as it is.
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 11:20:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2008 11:21:30 AM EDT by HeckThomas]

Originally Posted By Latency:

Originally Posted By SJetwrench:
And also attached to that is the Russian expeditions that we forget all to easy. I had a great uncle that survived a mustard gas attack.



Originally Posted By HeckThomas:

...

Yeah hardly anything is ever mentioned about our invasion of Russia, but it's one of the reasons the soviets did not trust us, but we were right for invading.

...



I currently writing a paper titled "The Forsaken Front" which discusses the allied intervention in North Russia and Siberia.  Which seems largely and wrongly ignored in discussions of the Great War when compared with the events of the western front. I'll see if I can change that in the dreaded five to eight double spaced page format, but I'm not holding my breath. Interestingly enough the intervention has great relevance in the field of American Soviet relations, so its puzzling to me that its ignored such as it is.



Time has a way of making one forget why one person is mad at the other, the only thing they remember it that they are mad, and they never let it go. I beleive it was Gorbachov who made the snide comment to Reagan "yes, but at least we have never invaded your country" in the mid 80's. Reagan was probably like dude what the hell are you talking about!

Our Invasion of Russian in ww1 and the Japanese attack on the Aluetian Islands of ww2 are never discussed, go figure.
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 11:22:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
WW I gave us the Russian Revolution and the rise of Lenin to power.  But on the other hand, it also gave us the Balfour Declaration which reserved land in the Middle East for Israel (which isn't a bad thing).  


WWI also gave us the McMahon-Hussein Correspondence which promised the same land in the Middle East to the Arabs.
Way to think ahead!
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 11:27:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By avmech:
and that war (1914) also was a continuation..............a Muslim shot Archeduke Ferdinand of Austria in what country????  Heck, we're still fighting the Crusades


Princip was an Orthodox Christian.
In the future, some simple fact checking will help you avoid looking like a complete tool.

Then again, don't let me intrude on your fantasy of wiping out all the Muslims down at the local mosque.
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 11:37:43 AM EDT
Kinda strange that no one ever makes a WWI movie either. I mean, I'd love to see a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Maybe with the upcoming 100th anniversary..
Link Posted: 2/19/2008 11:56:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Kinda strange that no one ever makes a WWI movie either. I mean, I'd love to see a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Maybe with the upcoming 100th anniversary..


IMO, WWI is in our collective memory as "too depressing" to make a movie about.
That said, I'd love to see Ersnt Junger's memoir (Storm of Steel) as a film, or a remake of Sgt. York's exploits.
Link Posted: 2/20/2008 4:27:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Kinda strange that no one ever makes a WWI movie either. I mean, I'd love to see a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Maybe with the upcoming 100th anniversary..


IMO, WWI is in our collective memory as "too depressing" to make a movie about.
That said, I'd love to see Ersnt Junger's memoir (Storm of Steel) as a film, or a remake of Sgt. York's exploits.


I'd have to agree
There are no "hero" leaders.  (lots of small scale battle leaders) and maybe you could include Pershing.  But pretty much everyone at the high levels of governments of all the governments were well LOSERS.  

The british generalship was aporable, these "men" should have been stripped of their titles.  The French were little better.  Possibly the best French general, Petain, destroyed his credibility by leading the Vichy regime.  Although Ludenorff and Hidenberg get all the credit, they probably stopped the western front progress (leading to the loss) by taking division after division to go east.  Wilson was a pro-england "neutral" and was at the end, a fool who got taken by the better diplomats at Versailles.  
Conrad of A-H wasn't much of a leader, and the Italian general (name?) was literally a sadist who cared not at all about his men.  
At the end, pretty much all the empires fell and millions of men were dead and for what?  zippo.  
No, not much movie there.

Gallipoli is actually a pretty good movie from the ANZAC side.  
Link Posted: 2/20/2008 4:31:27 PM EDT
The National WWI Memorial, the Liberty Memorial is located in Kansas City, Missouri.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Memorial

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2280857780_2bd72273d9.jpg?v=0
Link Posted: 2/21/2008 12:46:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mustachioed_Mavrick:
The National WWI Memorial, the Liberty Memorial is located in Kansas City, Missouri.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Memorial

farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2280857780_2bd72273d9.jpg?v=0


They don't have one in washington DC, though, and as these last soldiers of this forgotten war pass on, not many are saying anything about it. I know Kansas plans to do something when the last one dies, but theres been pretty much no acknowledgement of these troops ever.

Hey if anyone has a photo of the plaque in central park honoring the "lost battailon" please post it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2008 7:17:14 PM EDT
Yeah, it is sad that no one ever remembers them. Not many of them left.
Link Posted: 2/21/2008 8:27:48 PM EDT
WW1 was the Death of Empires: Romanov (Russia), Hohenzollern (Germany), Hapsburg (Austria-Hungary), Ottoman (Turkey).

WW1 did not settle any of the war's causes and armistice was simply a twenty-year truce.

WW2 was more of the same with the death of the Japanese Empire and mortally wounding the British Empire (and of the minor empires, killing the New Italian Empire and mortally wounding the French Colonial Empire). WW2 also created the Soviet Empire.

A hell of a lot of good men died in WW1... and (forgive me for saying so) I wish I could think of a noble cause that justifies it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2008 3:54:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Caliburn:

A hell of a lot of good men died in WW1... and (forgive me for saying so) I wish I could think of a noble cause that justifies it.


I think that's the whole point.  Every book I've read on WWI says basically the same thing.  All the books written afterwards by participants say basically that "we went off to war, and we don't know why"

I think that's part of the reason there aren't many movies or books around it.  There were no hero's, no noble cause.  

I don't think there was any cause but many "leaders" with too much ego and no concern for others.
Link Posted: 2/22/2008 9:48:29 AM EDT
To read correspondences and many newspaper articles at the time, and least in the English-speaking world, the stories of the upper-class Brit formerly-playboys going off to a "great adventure" in WWI is just heartbreaking.

Bill
Link Posted: 2/25/2008 7:34:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2008 7:35:21 PM EDT by SJetwrench]
Actually there is a recent movie about ww1" Flyboys" is the name of it and it's about some of the Lafayette Escadril (sp) volenteers. Not bad by hollywierd standards.
Link Posted: 2/25/2008 7:42:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wlchase:
To read correspondences and many newspaper articles at the time, and least in the English-speaking world, the stories of the upper-class Brit formerly-playboys going off to a "great adventure" in WWI is just heartbreaking.

Bill


All of Europe was excited to have a war that summer. If only they knew.
Link Posted: 2/25/2008 7:43:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Kinda strange that no one ever makes a WWI movie either. I mean, I'd love to see a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Maybe with the upcoming 100th anniversary..


IMO, WWI is in our collective memory as "too depressing" to make a movie about.
That said, I'd love to see Ersnt Junger's memoir (Storm of Steel) as a film, or a remake of Sgt. York's exploits.


I just read Storm of Steel for a class. Good shit. Now there was a professional.
Link Posted: 2/26/2008 5:28:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By wlchase:
To read correspondences and many newspaper articles at the time, and least in the English-speaking world, the stories of the upper-class Brit formerly-playboys going off to a "great adventure" in WWI is just heartbreaking.

Bill


All of Europe was excited to have a war that summer. If only they knew.


Exactly, they all thought they would be back before the leaves fell.  But then they didn't and they all kept hearing their own propaganda that they obviously knew wasn't true.  After a while it just had to sink in, "why are we listening to these people?"  (hell, given the muntinies in 1917 on the western front by the French and to a lesser extent the British, I believe this was happening.)  Perhaps, this is what partially led to the fall of the empires.  People don't believe that their governments were out for them after all the death and destruction for nothing.  Interesting thought anyway.
Link Posted: 2/28/2008 9:40:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJetwrench:
And also attached to that is the Russian expeditions that we forget all to easy. I had a great uncle that survived a mustard gas attack.


Archangel.
Link Posted: 2/29/2008 10:03:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Kinda strange that no one ever makes a WWI movie either. I mean, I'd love to see a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Maybe with the upcoming 100th anniversary..


IMO, WWI is in our collective memory as "too depressing" to make a movie about.
That said, I'd love to see Ersnt Junger's memoir (Storm of Steel) as a film, or a remake of Sgt. York's exploits.


I just read Storm of Steel for a class. Good shit. Now there was a professional.


That's exactly what I thought when I read it too.
Pure-d professional soldier.
Link Posted: 3/4/2008 4:58:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2008 4:59:45 AM EDT by Cal556]
Indiana has a huge WW1 memorial:

Indiana War Memorial

Link Posted: 6/4/2008 2:40:28 AM EDT
Just a couple things.  to the posters who said there were no heros.  
As far as no good leaders at the senior level I can not disagree.  At the lower levels I must disagree.

WW1 Trivia.  All of Theodore Roosevelts sons who were of age (4 or 5) volunteered for service.  One, a pilot was KIA.  His oldest son was the only general officer to go ashore in the first wave at Utah(IIRC might of been Omaha) beach in WW2.  His son was in the same wave making them the only father/son in the first wave there as well.  He died approximately a month later from a heart attack after repeatedly refusing to leave the front.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 3:11:10 AM EDT
There is a World War One Memorial in DC.  It is just off to the side in the "MALL"

It is close to the Washington Monument but hidden by trees.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:40:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Kinda strange that no one ever makes a WWI movie either. I mean, I'd love to see a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front".

Maybe with the upcoming 100th anniversary..


I saw a trailer recently for a Canadian movie about the war. Set in Passchendaele as I recall.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 9:02:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
WW I gave us the Russian Revolution and the rise of Lenin to power.  But on the other hand, it also gave us the Balfour Declaration which reserved land in the Middle East for Israel (which isn't a bad thing).  


Link Posted: 6/4/2008 9:04:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
What the heck, seems nobody ever bothered to pay much attention to one of the few 2 time CMH winners and WW1 veteran Smedley Bulter when he wrote "War is a Racket" either..... definately a shame these forgotten warriors - how much better off we'd be today had we bothered to listen to their words of wisdom.

mike

eta - Smedley Butler


True about Butler...A real patriot who couldn't be bought into fascism!
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 9:08:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:

Originally Posted By Caliburn:

A hell of a lot of good men died in WW1... and (forgive me for saying so) I wish I could think of a noble cause that justifies it.


I think that's the whole point.  Every book I've read on WWI says basically the same thing.  All the books written afterwards by participants say basically that "we went off to war, and we don't know why"



I think Benjamin Freedman could answer that question for you

Link Posted: 6/26/2008 12:55:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mustachioed_Mavrick:
The National WWI Memorial, the Liberty Memorial is located in Kansas City, Missouri.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Memorial

farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2280857780_2bd72273d9.jpg?v=0


Here is the commemorative medal issued when this was opened. From my US Military collection.

Link Posted: 7/15/2008 3:51:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:
I've been doing a lot of reading on WWI lately (keegan, Moiser, etc) and it's fascinating.
pretty much the entire Europeon order fell apart in 1917/18/19
I mean all of them.

I'm reading Churchills early Life, and between 1900 and roughly 1920, the social structure that had ruled England for centuries was completely overthrown. Just shows you how fast things can change.
Link Posted: 7/17/2008 7:29:24 AM EDT
A couple WWI movies I have seen:

The Light Horsemen - about the Aussie Light Horse units of mounted infantry. Pretty good flick. Tells the story of how they captured Beersheba from the Turks. Has a love story in it but it's still pretty good.

The Lost Battalion - made for TV but I enjoyed it. A true story about a US Army unit that is the spearhead for a new offensive. They advance as ordered but then get cut off and surrounded as their sister units get bogged down and can't keep up with them. Rickie Schroeder plays the BC.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:24:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HeckThomas:
America only has 1 known ww1 veteran alive, he is 107. America has no national monument to honor these folks. This is one of the wars I truly find fascinating and once this guy dies it will just be secondhand history.


Where did you get this information?

Just wondering because a friend of mine who went to a veterans dinner recently told me there were two WW1 veterans there.
Link Posted: 8/23/2008 1:27:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cal556:
Indiana has a huge WW1 memorial:

Indiana War Memorial

www.in.gov/iwm/images/banner2_iwm_rdax_566x253_100.jpg


Indianapolis has more war memorials than any other city besides DC.  This one is probably the best of the bunch.  You go inside at the base, then go up the twin stairwells, which take you to the Shrine Room.  The best time to take the tour and really get the awe-inspiring impression of the place is after dark.  Unfortunately, unless you're renting the facility for a function, you won't get to do that (9-5 business hours).  

BTW, just a block or so to the north is the National HQ of the American Legion.  Across the street to the east from the Legion is my brigade HQs.
Link Posted: 8/25/2008 6:17:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mustachioed_Mavrick:
The National WWI Memorial, the Liberty Memorial is located in Kansas City, Missouri.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Memorial

farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2280857780_2bd72273d9.jpg?v=0


One of the best museums in the country, in my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/17/2008 2:57:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By Mustachioed_Mavrick:
The National WWI Memorial, the Liberty Memorial is located in Kansas City, Missouri.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Memorial

farm3.static.flickr.com/2226/2280857780_2bd72273d9.jpg?v=0


Here is the commemorative medal issued when this was opened. From my US Military collection.

www.dm1975.com/WWI%20awards/libmem.jpg



My wife and I toured it in July of this year. I had 3 great uncles that served and returned from WWI. It was truly humbling experience.

Link Posted: 10/3/2008 7:45:52 PM EDT
I need to go there sometime. I have been in Kansas since 2003 (minus a couple years
in Iraq) and have never been. I always seem to go to KC on Monday when they are
closed.

On books, someone mentioned Keegans book. Very thurough book I thought. The
Guns of August is another good one. If you want to read details about everyday battels
and the horrors of the war I would suggest The Somme by Martin Gilbert.
Link Posted: 10/5/2008 11:36:37 PM EDT
A new book came out not too long ago by G.J Meyer, which does a great job of breaking down all the major players of the war, as well as a pretty comprehensive look at the war itself. Keegan's book is great, and this should be right beside it on your shelf.
Link Posted: 10/5/2008 11:49:52 PM EDT
  I''ve been reading a few of the short Osprey titles on topics related to this war, and some of them are quite good.

  One of them had a picture of a four man night patrol which had just returned from No-Man's-Land, and they were carrying 1911s (among other things). They had the flaps on their full-flap hosters tucked back for quicker access (and were probably at Condition One). That got my attention.

  In a world of bolt actions and bayonets, semi-auto pistols have considerable significance (especially when CQB was quite likely).
Link Posted: 10/5/2008 11:52:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColtAllure:
In a world of bolt actions and bayonets, semi-auto pistols have considerable significance (especially when CQB was quite likely).


Hence the use of Shotguns by the United States and other Allied Nations and the development of Trench Broom (SMG's) by both sides.
Link Posted: 10/5/2008 11:55:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2008 11:59:37 PM EDT by ColtAllure]

Originally Posted By AgHistGrad02:

Originally Posted By ColtAllure:
In a world of bolt actions and bayonets, semi-auto pistols have considerable significance (especially when CQB was quite likely).


Hence the use of Shotguns by the United States and other Allied Nations and the development of Trench Broom (SMG's) by both sides.


 Was there significant SMG use in this war? I seem to remember that we had Thompsons, but not many.

  ETA No, I guess the Tommy didn't quite make it into this one. And I thought "trech broom" referred to shotguns.
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 5:39:11 AM EDT
The MP18 Bergmann was in use near the end of the war, and there's the Pedersen Device as well, though I'm not sure it saw much use.

The Thompson was not in use during WW1.  While Auto Ordnance was founded during the war, I don't believe any of their weapons made it over in time.  The Thompson SMG's we know weren't produced until much later.

Shotguns were popular, and we all love a good scattergun with a bayo mount, but they really didn't play that big a part.  They were most common in the hands of American soldiers, who didn't actually get there until late in the war.  
Link Posted: 10/11/2008 5:47:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BozemanMT:
and America pretty much won the war.



I'd love to see some historical justification for that.
Link Posted: 10/21/2008 5:19:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2008 5:21:47 PM EDT by RhinelandArms]
WW1 is a huge deal in the Belgium and the western France area. Some of those people honor the allies every single day and they do it from the heart.

I went on a self guided tour with a friend of the WW1 battle fields and found lots of goodies. More than we could haul in a car. One of the neat things is that when you enter a major battleground area, nearly all the Bed& Breakfasts specialize in WW1. They love to show you were stuff is, the place we stayed at took us to a new excavation area and we crawled all around it.

I found the heals of a Germans boots from a guy who was blow away, they had found his body just a couple months before and they were all standing around talking about it, I just look down and there they were. We found lots of everything. It was amazing.

I wish we had more people left from the era and more info available.
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