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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:40:52 AM EST
Now a Coral Gables police officer leaves his dog in the car long enough to kill the animal. An animal he'd been "partnered" with for over 6 years. How the hell can any idiot leave an animal in the car in 90 degree plus weather?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 12:44:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Now a Coral Gables police officer leaves his dog in the car long enough to kill the animal. An animal he'd been "partnered" with for over 6 years. How the hell can any idiot leave an animal in the car in 90 degree plus weather?



He should be fired. What a thoughtless asshole, cop or not.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 12:46:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 12:47:59 AM EST by Jeeper21]
This is not the first time this has happened. There was a story on dateline or one of those other crap shows about a cop who let his K-9 die in the car in summer heat. I believe he was charged with killing the dog and I think was forced out of the job.

Not the kind of people I want running around with too much authority and guns.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 12:53:17 AM EST
Charge the bastard for a new dog and the training, then fire him.
How the hell could he let his "partner" die like that?
The dog would have given it's life to protect him, and that's the way he treated it, Fu(k him.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:01:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 1:01:41 AM EST by AZ-K9]
I am constantly expected to leave my dog in the car in 120ish degrees during summer months.


Man, some of you guys jump the gun quick!
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:03:49 AM EST
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:05:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 1:07:01 AM EST by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.


Yes, and they sometimes fail. Mine has.

I would like to know the whole story before I ask for some guys head on a platter.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:06:46 AM EST
Thats pretty fu*ked up. Guess that mans best friend thing doesn't mean much to the cop.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:14:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.


Yes, and they sometimes fail. Mine has.

I would like to know the whole story before I ask for some guys head on a platter.



My dog isn't a duty animal or one I trust my life to day in day out, and even I wouldn't trust to leave it in a running car, with the air on for exactly that reason...machines quit and if they do dog dies.

If these are the requirements of a job, to purposely endanger your partner, I'd have a hard time doing it. There are "cool" vests that protect dogs from over heating, as well as remote alarms that can page you when your car's interior reach a certain temperature. Why doesn't your dept. use them if the dog is at risk? And why didn't the department in charge of this dog? Is the cost of that dog's training less than the cost of a temperature alarm? I'd bet not.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:23:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.


Yes, and they sometimes fail. Mine has.

I would like to know the whole story before I ask for some guys head on a platter.



My dog isn't a duty animal or one I trust my life to day in day out, and even I wouldn't trust to leave it in a running car, with the air on for exactly that reason...machines quit and if they do dog dies.

If these are the requirements of a job, to purposely endanger your partner, I'd have a hard time doing it. There are "cool" vests that protect dogs from over heating, as well as remote alarms that can page you when your car's interior reach a certain temperature. Why doesn't your dept. use them if the dog is at risk? And why didn't the department in charge of this dog? Is the cost of that dog's training less than the cost of a temperature alarm? I'd bet not.



The good news is that this incident has caused this PD to install those alarms. The sad news is the dog was set to retire in another couple of days.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:28:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.


Yes, and they sometimes fail. Mine has.

I would like to know the whole story before I ask for some guys head on a platter.



My dog isn't a duty animal or one I trust my life to day in day out, and even I wouldn't trust to leave it in a running car, with the air on for exactly that reason...machines quit and if they do dog dies.

If these are the requirements of a job, to purposely endanger your partner, I'd have a hard time doing it. There are "cool" vests that protect dogs from over heating, as well as remote alarms that can page you when your car's interior reach a certain temperature. Why doesn't your dept. use them if the dog is at risk? And why didn't the department in charge of this dog? Is the cost of that dog's training less than the cost of a temperature alarm? I'd bet not.



The answer is $$$$$$$$$$.

The officer from CA that someone mentioned, had his vehicle's A/C repaired several times before the incident. (Whatver happen to do it right the first time........) The K-9 officers with that department had also requested heat sensors for the cars. That request was repeatedly denied.

He was at a training facility, doing some type of required training. Also most K-9 officer are required to have their K-9 partners with them whenever they are on duty. Just in case the "big one" happens and a K-9 is needed NOW. At the same time, K-9's are often restricted from being allowed to "roam" by department policies. Add to that rules in many departments that won't allow K-9's to come in PD/SO, or other municipal buildings, unless they are there for a K-9 type call.

Why isn't the department providing indoor crates at select facilities?
Why can't they fix an auto A/C, or replace it, the FIRST time.
Why aren't they providing temp alarm/releases

Next when an officer follows all the rules, and his DEPARTMENT vehicle A/C stop working, why is it the K-9 officer alone that gets charged. Isn't the department also responsible for the conditions it requires officers to work under, and the equipment they provide?

I'll be back as soon as I put away my soapbox.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:32:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.


Yes, and they sometimes fail. Mine has.

I would like to know the whole story before I ask for some guys head on a platter.



My dog isn't a duty animal or one I trust my life to day in day out, and even I wouldn't trust to leave it in a running car, with the air on for exactly that reason...machines quit and if they do dog dies.

If these are the requirements of a job, to purposely endanger your partner, I'd have a hard time doing it. There are "cool" vests that protect dogs from over heating, as well as remote alarms that can page you when your car's interior reach a certain temperature. Why doesn't your dept. use them if the dog is at risk? And why didn't the department in charge of this dog? Is the cost of that dog's training less than the cost of a temperature alarm? I'd bet not.


Those alarms are set to roll the windows down and page at what, 85 or 90 degrees? Do you have any idea how hot it really is in the car? 85 degrees is a cool day and it would be rare that the rear area of the car ever gets below this..... There are, so far, no products available that are a sure thing fix for the problem.

The best defense against this is regular security checks of the car, which is sometimes near impossible.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:57:47 AM EST
www.acek9.com/k9ha_pro/k9_heat_alarm_pro_standard_features.html

www.castlek9.com/bail_out_system.htm

I believe those are progamable. There are also some neat accesories, fans, on the second linked page.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:05:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

The answer is $$$$$$$$$$.

The officer from CA that someone mentioned, had his vehicle's A/C repaired several times before the incident. (Whatver happen to do it right the first time........) The K-9 officers with that department had also requested heat sensors for the cars. That request was repeatedly denied.

He was at a training facility, doing some type of required training. Also most K-9 officer are required to have their K-9 partners with them whenever they are on duty. Just in case the "big one" happens and a K-9 is needed NOW. At the same time, K-9's are often restricted from being allowed to "roam" by department policies. Add to that rules in many departments that won't allow K-9's to come in PD/SO, or other municipal buildings, unless they are there for a K-9 type call.

Why isn't the department providing indoor crates at select facilities?
Why can't they fix an auto A/C, or replace it, the FIRST time.
Why aren't they providing temp alarm/releases

Next when an officer follows all the rules, and his DEPARTMENT vehicle A/C stop working, why is it the K-9 officer alone that gets charged. Isn't the department also responsible for the conditions it requires officers to work under, and the equipment they provide?

I'll be back as soon as I put away my soapbox.



Good points that none of the LEO bashers and haters here would even consider, admit to or think about in their rush to roast another officer.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:17:27 AM EST

Good points that none of the LEO bashers and haters here would even consider, admit to or think about in their rush to roast another officer.


Not even close.

I just can't believe that a Department would spend that much money on a dog, plus the training for the dog and officer, and then not do everything they can to protect the investment.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:30:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:

Good points that none of the LEO bashers and haters here would even consider, admit to or think about in their rush to roast another officer.


Not even close.

I just can't believe that a Department would spend that much money on a dog, plus the training for the dog and officer, and then not do everything they can to protect the investment.



Police dogs, are like AW's to people.......................scary.

Many departments won't use police dogs. Much of it comes down to the public's perception of the dogs, and how they would be used. Even departments that use dogs are VERY concerned about public perception, and liability.

Liability drives a lot of police decisions. "If we do this we could get sued.............." That is why dogs are often required to stay in the car until they need a potty break, stretch, or are on a call. K-9 handlers also have to be ready to explain why the chose a particular area for the break/stretch, if someone complains.

FYI, around here the dept. spends $0 on the dog, and intial training. If an officer is selcted to be a K-9 handler, THEY buy the dog.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:32:46 AM EST

Why can't they fix an auto A/C, or replace it, the FIRST time.

They probably had the same trouble that other departments have, getting the local dealer to do warranty work. My local department is having a very hard time getting GM service. GM doesn't pay enough labor on warranty work to actually do the job, so the dealerships aren't interested in doing it. I know a couple of local officers that have spent money out of their own pockets to fix their cars.z
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:38:12 AM EST
would be interesting to know how frequently this is happening. it happened here in
corpus christi tx about a month ago.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:46:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By zoom:

Why can't they fix an auto A/C, or replace it, the FIRST time.

They probably had the same trouble that other departments have, getting the local dealer to do warranty work. My local department is having a very hard time getting GM service. GM doesn't pay enough labor on warranty work to actually do the job, so the dealerships aren't interested in doing it. I know a couple of local officers that have spent money out of their own pockets to fix their cars.z



I didn't memorize the details of the case, but as I remember it, it was a realtively old car, so not a warranty repair. It was also listed as fixed, each time it was brought in. It would then crap out relatively soon after. I think it might have been a municipal garage doing the work.

We used to keep the CVPI's for appx 14 months/100,000 miles. The work that was done on them was oil, brakes, trans service, and tires. No real mechanical work for most cars, although transmissions didn't always last as well as the should.

We started going 20-24 months with 140,000 miles. The amount of mechanical work for that last 40,000 miles skyrocketed. HUGE increase in maint., HUGE.

The K-9 car in that story looked several years old. Police work is hard on cars..........................Who is responible for providing a reliable car?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:50:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:59:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Aren't K-9 officers required to leave their cars running with the a/c on?

Just an honest question, really.


Yes, and they sometimes fail. Mine has.

I would like to know the whole story before I ask for some guys head on a platter.




THE WHOLE STORY? dog left in, car dog died. if it was a "civilain" you wouldn't wait for an explanation. or heaven forbid a biker left his dog in the car.

that is a judge and jury"s job, not a fellow police officer's
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:59:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 3:01:04 AM EST by VT_K9]
I cannot help but to chime in on this one. It should be easy to see I am a Handler as well. I am located in Vermont. I just finished an 8 week stint on days and I am on midnights now. My windows are not tinted (in VT we cannot tint the front windows anyway), no heat alarm, and no door popper. I do have a cruiser kennel, leave the A/C on, leave the windows cracked, park in the shade (unless 4WD is needed to get there or from there), and I CHECK ON MY DOG (often). I will step out of a call to check on him and I will leave a meeting to check on him. So far everyong understands my actions. I would do this even if I had a heat alarm, equipment can fail. Even equipment which is designed to monitor the other equipment. My cruiser is not a take home vehicle, I swap my equipment to and from my POV, and I use my POV to respond directly to some calls depending on location and time. Does this mean I need a second heat unit for my POV? What happens when I have to pick up a family friend and my partner is in the back. Do I have to install a kennel/barrier? So many questions and so many opportunities to deliberate how far you go.

I am working on fund raising to coinside with Department funds to provide the above equipment along with other items for us. My Department is very supportive of our presence. My town (and surrounding towns) enjoy the presence of the dog.

I am in the process of putting together a sticker depiciting my K9, Jerry Lee. When I do, the funds raised will be combined with town funds to supply the equipment. Once I meet my goals I will donate a portion of the funds to the state K9 program so all VT Handlers can benefit. The remaining funds will go towards new/replacement equipment and the next K9.

K9 partners are an awesome tool that require tremendous amount of dedication. You will get back what you put in to the team effort. I do not see myself fulfilling any other position, at least as long as I am physically capable.

I wish there would be more support for all K9 teams out there. Some teams do struggle to get along, I have contributed a lot of my own money to my partner and our job. I have met a lot of wonderful K9 Officers and K9s.

To those who know, stay safe. To those who want to know, ask or sign up and experience.

Thanks,

Mike
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:02:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By zoom:

Why can't they fix an auto A/C, or replace it, the FIRST time.

They probably had the same trouble that other departments have, getting the local dealer to do warranty work. My local department is having a very hard time getting GM service. GM doesn't pay enough labor on warranty work to actually do the job, so the dealerships aren't interested in doing it. I know a couple of local officers that have spent money out of their own pockets to fix their cars.z



Although not a LE experience, two summers ago I had the AC in my New Beetle fail. It took four visits to the dealer for it to get fixed. They paid for two of the three freon charges and replaced a valve and then the entire condensing unit. AC repair is difficult and time consuming to get done right at all and even then you may miss something.

I don't think that norman74 provided us with a link for this story or enough details to draw any conclusion about what happened. Was he in his POV or his LEO cruiser? On LEO business or visiting a bar in the middle of the day? Not enough information for the condemnations of the officer that have been given. He could have been on a call and had the AC fail.

And why do they not allow the K-9 officers to take the canines into public buildings?? If the canine is killed in the line of duty he receives a burial and the offender is charged with killing an officer of the law. Why in the hell are these officers not given the same respect and courtesy given those who walk on two feet?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:06:48 AM EST
>and I CHECK ON MY DOG (often).

If that K-9 had VT-K9 (Mike) for a partner he would be alive today.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:17:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By VT_K9:
I cannot help but to chime in on this one. It should be easy to see I am a Handler as well. I am located in Vermont. I just finished an 8 week stint on days and I am on midnights now. My windows are not tinted (in VT we cannot tint the front windows anyway), no heat alarm, and no door popper. I do have a cruiser kennel, leave the A/C on, leave the windows cracked, park in the shade (unless 4WD is needed to get there or from there), and I CHECK ON MY DOG (often). I will step out of a call to check on him and I will leave a meeting to check on him. So far everyong understands my actions. I would do this even if I had a heat alarm, equipment can fail. Even equipment which is designed to monitor the other equipment. My cruiser is not a take home vehicle, I swap my equipment to and from my POV, and I use my POV to respond directly to some calls depending on location and time. Does this mean I need a second heat unit for my POV? What happens when I have to pick up a family friend and my partner is in the back. Do I have to install a kennel/barrier? So many questions and so many opportunities to deliberate how far you go.

I am working on fund raising to coinside with Department funds to provide the above equipment along with other items for us. My Department is very supportive of our presence. My town (and surrounding towns) enjoy the presence of the dog.

I am in the process of putting together a sticker depiciting my K9, Jerry Lee. When I do, the funds raised will be combined with town funds to supply the equipment. Once I meet my goals I will donate a portion of the funds to the state K9 program so all VT Handlers can benefit. The remaining funds will go towards new/replacement equipment and the next K9.

K9 partners are an awesome tool that require tremendous amount of dedication. You will get back what you put in to the team effort. I do not see myself fulfilling any other position, at least as long as I am physically capable.

I wish there would be more support for all K9 teams out there. Some teams do struggle to get along, I have contributed a lot of my own money to my partner and our job. I have met a lot of wonderful K9 Officers and K9s.

To those who know, stay safe. To those who want to know, ask or sign up and experience.

Thanks,

Mike



Let me know how your fundraising goes, and when you get it started.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 3:23:36 AM EST
Doesn't the average 'Joe' get charged with some degree of murder or manslaughter when they're responsible for a K9's death ?

If so, then hold Mr LEO to the same standards.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 5:21:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 5:23:06 AM EST by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Doesn't the average 'Joe' get charged with some degree of murder or manslaughter when they're responsible for a K9's death ?

If so, then hold Mr LEO to the same standards.



No, and I have not the slightest idea how you guys came up with that. It's a flat out asinine idea that for some reason seems to live on ARFCOM.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 5:29:34 AM EST
all of our K-9 cars have the alarm systems installed. They monitor the INSIDE temperature of the car and will roll down the windows and turn on the overheads once the temperature reaches the programed level.... even with this system our guys check on their dogs often...
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 5:37:27 AM EST
Seems he's sayin k-9 as in police dog, and a person being responsible for the death of an officer if he kills a police dog. I've heard that also, in some states I believe it is the law.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:10:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
Seems he's sayin k-9 as in police dog, and a person being responsible for the death of an officer if he kills a police dog. I've heard that also, in some states I believe it is the law.



You cannot be charged with murder or manslaughter for killing something that is not human. The PETA freaks haven't gotten that far yet.

Just another ARFCOM legend from folks that think they know the profession, but are sadly lacking. Now, there ARE laws on the books about killing working dogs, usually having to do with the dogs death during commision of a seperate crime, to hide evidence, etc. These are going to vary from state to state, but none of them are going to put you on death row.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:23:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 6:28:37 AM EST by norman74]
Florida's laws

843.19 Injuring or killing police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse prohibited; penalty.--

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Police dog" means any dog, and "police horse" means any horse, that is owned, or the service of which is employed, by a law enforcement agency for the principal purpose of aiding in the detection of criminal activity, enforcement of laws, or apprehension of offenders.

(b) "Fire dog" means any dog that is owned, or the service of which is employed, by a fire department, a special fire district, or the State Fire Marshal for the principal purpose of aiding in the detection of flammable materials or the investigation of fires.

(c) "SAR dog" means any search and rescue dog that is owned, or the service of which is utilized, by a fire department, a law enforcement agency, a special fire district, or the State Fire Marshal for the principal purpose of aiding in the detection of missing persons, including, but not limited to, persons who are lost, who are trapped under debris as the result of a natural, manmade, or technological disaster, or who are drowning victims.

(2) Any person who knowingly and willfully and without lawful cause or justification inflicts bodily harm, permanent disability, or death upon a police dog, fire dog, SAR dog, or police horse commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.



775.082(3)(a)3.(d)

For a felony of the third degree, by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years.


775.083(1)(c)

$5,000, when the conviction is of a felony of the third degree.


775.084(4)(a)3. (775.084 is the Habitual Offender statute, or the "3 strikes" law)

In the case of a felony of the third degree, for a term of years not exceeding 10
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:24:27 AM EST
We need to wait until we hear his side of the story.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:25:31 AM EST
This cop IS being arrested for killing a fellow LEO right?


Right?



<shakes head and walks off>


SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:30:07 AM EST
Based on my post above, the department's out is that the guy didn't "knowingly and willfully" kill the dog. Acted like an idiot? Yes of course. But "knowingly and willfully? That's the whole defense, assuming of course it ever actually made it to trial.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:30:45 AM EST
He should be charged with MURDER. He killed his partner.
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