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Posted: 8/31/2005 5:40:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:54:00 PM EDT by Epsilon]
I found this....


Yesterday, I was informed that my paid order for my 10.5" bbl'd HK416 upper has been put on indefinite HOLD! Why you ask?

Here's the scoop:

ALL HK416 uppers that are in the loop have been recalled due to the *impropriety* of certain authorized military contacts who ordered these kits under false pretenses. Supposedly these were diverted from a purportedly cancelled contract in violation of HK policy. ALL end-users are in the process of being contacted to surrender their/HK's equipment. HK will offer $1100 for each upper returned (Military/.gov base cost) with secondary contacts being required to make up the difference on sales to the civilian component. An investigation into these matters is under way with all principals involved. Criminal (UCMJ) charges are forthcoming & threats to extend co-conspiracy charges down the food chain are being set into motion.

End-users who cooperate with authorities will be immune from prosecution of what in HK's opinion is "reception of stolen property". This will be enforced through the BATFE & local authorities according to Pete Simon (ext 227) & Neils Iloff (ext 231) of HK, VA. (703 450-1900). "It is the opinion of HK... that these uppers are the sole property of HK & they will NEVER be released for civilian consumption... even when a new factory is completed in Ohio to produce them."

Sturmgewehr, subguns.com, AR15.com, online auctions etc... are being closely monitored to cut off distribution.

Bottom line: there now exists a small but thriving blackmarket where these uppers are being flipped for unprecedented profits. Buy at your own risk. Obviously, there is NO warranty expressed or implied. "Confiscation will be the order of the day" according to a spokesperson with HK's Legal Department.

Dealers will be receiving supportive documents detailing the implications of complicity in the very near future.




Fuck you Hk!!!!
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:43:26 PM EDT

"Confiscation will be the order of the day" according to a spokesperson with HK's Legal Department.


OK, Fuck HK too now!!! Gun makers just don't need to be sayin' that shit!!!

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:43:40 PM EDT
Confiscation eh?

If anyone has one, don't do anything until lawyers are showing up. If you have an SBR, fuck em.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:43:42 PM EDT
I predict a rash of boating accidents.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:43:55 PM EDT
If I owned one, I would have to tell them I sold it at a gun show awhile back. It's sad that HK is pulling that political BS.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:45:28 PM EDT
Doggone it I used to like HK.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:46:12 PM EDT
Just when i thought i could not hate HK more
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:46:43 PM EDT
Someone on this board was showing theirs off on the ar15 section.

It cost them over 2000 dollars. This speaks VERY badly of HK. I guess I'm done with that company.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:47:26 PM EDT
HK has sucked ass for a long time now, nothing new. Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:47:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:49:10 PM EDT by Epsilon]
The info says Hk is monitering AR15.COM!

Well if you can read this Hk......FUCK OFF YOU NAZIS!
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:48:30 PM EDT
If I had one I'd shoot sand down the bore and drive over the goddam piston. Then give it back.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:48:42 PM EDT
Well I guess I have another reason why not to buy HK.

Max
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:49:19 PM EDT
Oh yeah, we're REALLY gonna gat a crack at the XM8! riiiiiiiiiiight!

bastards.


"It is the opinion of HK... that these uppers are the sole property of HK & they will NEVER be released for civilian consumption... even when a new factory is completed in Ohio to produce them."


unreal.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:50:56 PM EDT
I don't fully understand what that letter means. Can someone explain it in a nutshell?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:51:08 PM EDT
Source?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:51:50 PM EDT
Something tells me plenty of HK fans will continue to support this asshole company too.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:52:42 PM EDT

Source?




Source



Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:54:04 PM EDT
this has already been beat to death in the technical forum. The uppers were form 6'd to a government agency, and were basically aquired through illicit means, by not returning them you're in possesion of stolen property. HK is being nice about this and giving anyone who bought one $1100 for them.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:55:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:56:28 PM EDT by w4klr]

Originally Posted By Epsilon:

Source?


Source




That isn't a source, that is a link to a forum, that links to another forum, that the poster said he posted it on another forum and wanted to post it on the second forum, I don't see where he recieved those words from.

ETA: If you are giving one back, show them proof of what you paid, and tell them you want that compensation. Confiscation without proper compensation=bad mmkay.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:57:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:58:09 PM EDT by Mauser101]
HK's policy of not selling to civilians does not equal law.

If the 416 uppers were legally sold then they were legally sold. They can ask for them back and you can tell them to FOAD.

EDIT: Claim seems dubious right now.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:57:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 5:59:47 PM EDT by mobius]
other then this post............is there anything else that would confirm this is legit? I have been around long enough to know, not to take everything someone wrote as being true.......unless they back it up with proof.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:57:37 PM EDT
confiscation? better bring the scuba gear, because i was in a boat you see...
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:58:20 PM EDT
There are holes in the quoted account big enough to drive a Unimog though.

"supposedly"
"purportedly"
"implications"

The part that bugs me is:

Supposedly these were diverted from a purportedly cancelled contract in violation of HK policy.

Since when is a private corporation's "policy" enforceable by UCMJ procedures?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 5:59:47 PM EDT
I stopped caring that much about HK after they dropped the P7 and have an all plastic lineup...
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:00:13 PM EDT
Didn't all the uppers get lost in NO?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:00:43 PM EDT
Hey HK! You monitoring this?

GOOD!

FUCK YOU!

I just scratched four of your weapons off my wishlist. Go sell them to the French!
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:01:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Epsilon:

Source?




Source






OK, your source is a post by osprey2one on HKPro which is a link to an original post (I guess) on subguns.com.

None of them have ANYTHING from HK.

It LOOKS like a dealer tried to get some HK uppers and wasn't able to. Like many dealer he probably tried to claim it was a LE order but couldn't produce the documents and was told "No Guns For You" by the HK Soup Nazis. They won't sell any HK M4 uppers to me either unless it's an official purchase.

The rest looks like pure speculation and bad mouthing of HK. Even if that WAS the official HK postion they are NOT going to tell you that. NO FIREARM COMPANY is going to annouce to anyone that they are monitoring internet message boards.

Sounds like bullshit to me from a guy who probably lost a shitload of cash on orders he can't fill.

Until I see something official from HK this could just be sour grapes.

Everything except the part about HK NOT selling uppers to civies. I already knew that. They consider the HK416 to be a "machine gun" (and it is) and the consider the parts and uppers to be "machine gun" parts. A civilian can't order MP5 parts directly from HK either.

The recall shit is LUNACY. It is NOT a firearm, it is NOT a controlled item. And HK knows that.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:02:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
HK's policy of not selling to civilians does not equal law.

If the 416 uppers were legally sold then they were legally sold. They can ask for them back and you can tell them to FOAD.

EDIT: Claim seems dubious right now.



this has nothing to do with HK selling to civilians, it has to do with someone selling HK uppers that were deverted illegallly from a .gov/mil contract.

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:02:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
HK's policy of not selling to civilians does not equal law.

If the 416 uppers were legally sold then they were legally sold. They can ask for them back and you can tell them to FOAD.

EDIT: Claim seems dubious right now.


That seems right. HK dropped the ball and a few were sold, that's their problem. Unless there was an actual theft, it's not stolen and doesn't break any US laws. Technically, it wouldn't be theft by deception either as the full asking price was payed, along with the sellers okay.

I wouldn't give them back unless I were facing real charges.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:04:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:
HK's policy of not selling to civilians does not equal law.

If the 416 uppers were legally sold then they were legally sold. They can ask for them back and you can tell them to FOAD.

EDIT: Claim seems dubious right now.




IF (and it's a big if) the uppers are considered STOLEN, it doesn't matter if you "legally" bought and paid for it. If they're considered stolen goods, then HK has the right to get them back, and I don't believe they have to compensate anyone for it.


I guess the real question here is whether or not they are technically stolen goods, or HK is just really pissed off that someone abused their distribution system, and sold some uppers on the black market - and now HK is throwing their weight around, trying to intimidate people to give them up.



So, either HK was wronged - and are being really nice in offering compensation to get their property back.
Or, HK are being assholes, and are not very nice at all.


I guess time will tell which one it is.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:04:31 PM EDT
HK’s dedication to consumers continues- try finding P9S parts, or in a few years P7M8 parts. HK has a tradition of heavy marketing, sell the product and later abandon the product line.

Why people are uber licking them, I have never understood.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:04:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 6:06:50 PM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:05:42 PM EDT
I'm still boycotting Germany thanks to their backstabbing over Iraq.

Where is HK building in Ohio? I may have to boycott the Buckeye State to boot.

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:11:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 6:14:30 PM EDT by JB69]

Originally Posted By w4klr:

Originally Posted By Epsilon:

Source?


Source




That isn't a source, that is a link to a forum, that links to another forum, that the poster said he posted it on another forum and wanted to post it on the second forum, I don't see where he recieved those words from.

ETA: If you are giving one back, show them proof of what you paid, and tell them you want that compensation. Confiscation without proper compensation=bad mmkay.




In case you just don't know any better, and all of this is TRUE, they don't HAVE to give you back shit....... They're being generous, offering the $1000 as they do not have to.


It's called possession of stolen property. IN this case, being a restricted firearm component, a federal offense.


You WILL surrender it, if the po-po asks, or let us know how your ass feels from the federal pen, basically.


You have no legal recourse to demand a thing.... All you can do is sue the person you bought it from. Nothing more.


Gonna be a few people wishing they didn't sell this shit REAL SOON, methinks.



Talk about a fucking snafu ! What a crock of shit, sheesh.... If it's the truth, of course....
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:17:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:
It's called possession of stolen property. IN this case, being a restricted firearm component, a federal offense.



Since when do you need a $200 tax stamp for a 10.5 inch AR upper?

In any case, I call BS on this scare until I see a verifiable source.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:18:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By w4klr:

Originally Posted By JB69:
It's called possession of stolen property. IN this case, being a restricted firearm component, a federal offense.



Since when do you need a $200 tax stamp for a 10.5 inch AR upper?

In any case, I call BS on this scare until I see a verifiable source.



You do if you own a AR-15 lower.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:21:23 PM EDT
link.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:23:37 PM EDT
Funny...I was just looking at a NIB HK91 earlier today. If this is true, I'm selling my HKs, and they can kiss my ruby red ass.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:25:31 PM EDT
What a surprize. A bunch of Germans who are trying to cause trouble for Americans.

Feaking Jerries.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:26:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:
Funny...I was just looking at a NIB HK91 earlier today. If this is true, I'm selling my HKs, and they can kiss my ruby red ass.



Ya can do what you want but you do realize the purchase of any HK91 hasn't funded the company since 1989 right?
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:27:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By w4klr:

Originally Posted By JB69:
It's called possession of stolen property. IN this case, being a restricted firearm component, a federal offense.



Since when do you need a $200 tax stamp for a 10.5 inch AR upper?

In any case, I call BS on this scare until I see a verifiable source.



You do if you own a AR-15 lower.



That's what I'm saying. The upper itself isn't restricted. It's the lower. I could buy all the lowers in the world if I had an SBR registered lower.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:27:54 PM EDT
Im definetly not getting a HK product now.


The info says Hk is monitering AR15.COM!

Well if you can read this Hk......FUCK OFF YOU NAZIS!


.

+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:29:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By modog:
Funny...I was just looking at a NIB HK91 earlier today. If this is true, I'm selling my HKs, and they can kiss my ruby red ass.



Ya can do what you want but you do realize the purchase of any HK91 hasn't funded the company since 1989 right?



Yes, I do..but I buy lots of spare parts for any weapon I own, and I expect to be able to have it serviced if it comes to that. Fuck them.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:29:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2005 6:31:43 PM EDT by dport]

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
There are holes in the quoted account big enough to drive a Unimog though.

"supposedly"
"purportedly"
"implications"

The part that bugs me is:

Supposedly these were diverted from a purportedly cancelled contract in violation of HK policy.

Since when is a private corporation's "policy" enforceable by UCMJ procedures?


Their policy is not, but if I buy something on Uncle Sam's dime or use Uncle Sam's letterhead to buy something and then I take what I ordered courtesy of Uncle Sam's support and resell that then that's against the UCMJ. There is a process to get rid of items that have been requisitioned and are no longer needed, and selling them ain't it.

edited for their, there and they're. Damn it I know better.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:29:53 PM EDT
Hell, I hav eno use for one but now i want to buy one just to piss on them


I hate heavy fisted companies
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:30:11 PM EDT
You guys are the biggest bunch of pussies I've ever met...

Truely a sad, sad day for AR15.com
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:37:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
There policy is not, but if I buy something on Uncle Sam's dime or use Uncle Sam's letterhead to buy something and then I take what I ordered courtesy of Uncle Sam's support and resell that then that's against the UCMJ. There is a process to get rid of items that have been requisitioned and are no longer needed, and selling them ain't it.

Understand perfectly, but the original post sets up the situation that the uppers in question were manufactured by HK to fulfill a DoD contract, then the contract was cancelled. If the purchaser never took possession of the goods, they are not government property. If the uppers were intended fo DoD use only, that still doesn't matter. "Intention" is generally not worthy of consideration under the law. I think, inasmuch as there is any truth to the story at all, that the situation is that HK let LEO/Gov't goods into their civilian distribution network and is trying to recover them to protect their exposure to liability problems.

For those on here who will abandon their HK firearms over this flap, send them to me. I happen to appreciate over-engineered pricey German stuff! HK won't miss you, anyway. They care not one iota about the civilian market. Send me your Colt and FN stuff, too, while you're at it.
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:48:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By dport:
There policy is not, but if I buy something on Uncle Sam's dime or use Uncle Sam's letterhead to buy something and then I take what I ordered courtesy of Uncle Sam's support and resell that then that's against the UCMJ. There is a process to get rid of items that have been requisitioned and are no longer needed, and selling them ain't it.

Understand perfectly, but the original post sets up the situation that the uppers in question were manufactured by HK to fulfill a DoD contract, then the contract was cancelled. If the purchaser never took possession of the goods, they are not government property. If the uppers were intended fo DoD use only, that still doesn't matter. "Intention" is generally not worthy of consideration under the law. I think, inasmuch as there is any truth to the story at all, that the situation is that HK let LEO/Gov't goods into their civilian distribution network and is trying to recover them to protect their exposure to liability problems.

For those on here who will abandon their HK firearms over this flap, send them to me. I happen to appreciate over-engineered pricey German stuff! HK won't miss you, anyway. They care not one iota about the civilian market. Send me your Colt and FN stuff, too, while you're at it.



I have none of there JUNK to send you. Never cared for there shit. While who knows what the heck really went one with this upper being sold to Civies... If it is stolen from HK it's should be returned . In a few pieces anyway. And a nice map pointing them back to Nazi Germany. WD
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:50:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Source?



+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:50:30 PM EDT
I just can't figure it. HK would make a bonus killing if they gave civies some sugar. I guess they probably realize that but don't give a frog's fat ass because of their contracts.

Link Posted: 8/31/2005 6:52:32 PM EDT
HK, monitor this





Keep your overpriced POC.....


Criminal case?





Civil case at best
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