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Posted: 6/6/2001 7:45:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 7:44:16 AM EST by CrimsonGhost]
I just got my almost monthly solicitation call from the NRA where I had to listen to yet another tin foil hat rant from Wayne Lap...(who gives a fuck) about UN concern over gun violence in the US. I always suffer through the BS so I can get to the mindless slave on the other side that reads off the recruiting posters on the wall and tries to get me "to help Wayne". I realize this is a dicey subject on a gun board but have you all not studied the NRA's positions on your favorite firearms? I always explain to them that when the NRA supports me and my class 3 firearms (M16's)and other black rifles, I will, in turn, support them. He actually told me that the NRA actually suffers membership loss due to "moderates" who do not like the "fringe" gun owners such as yourself vocalizing for them. I almost shit my pants at his statement!!! He and I had a very polite discourse over this and he said, "he can certainly see my point". I guess you now know why the Brady Bill passed. Because the "sensible" NRA members didn't feel it was necessary to bloody themselves and lose face when it wasn't affecting their core constituency. You people who ardently defend (and fund) them are the same ones scratching your heads when your "fringe" guns are sodomized by politicians. Quite a few of our gun clubs around here actually mandate membership in the NRA and then turn around and ban full auto fire at their range in states where it's perfectly legal. They treat you like a leper until you no longer show up if you are seen with an AR15. I'll stop ranting now, I think you all get the picture. You're damn right your gun rights are being pissed away piece by piece...and the NRA is doing NOTHING to help you! Wake up people. Am I now a pariah here too???
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:53:37 AM EST
Why do I continue to support the NRA? Because it pisses the anti-gunners off sooooooo much. Nothing says you can't support other groups as well..
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:58:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:01:28 AM EST
You're willing to pay the NRA for THAT!! Believe me, the anti's aren't THAT impressed.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:06:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:11:06 AM EST
Bohica - That is such a myopic, tunnel-visioned view that I wonder if you should be driving an automibile. [}:D] "The NRA is doing NOTHING to help me??" REALLY??? DO you REALLY believe that??? The NRA is NOW, TODAY presently training the next generation of shooters and gun owners. The NRA IS INDEED fighting the battle. Maybe not in the way I would choose to fight it, but do I want them to cease to exist?? If I and everyone else pulls our support, they will infact CEASE TO EXIST. And ask yourself THIS question - will we ALL be better or worse off if they ceased to exist??? The NRA keeps us all apprised of what the gun grabbers are doing. I don't see a Bohica.com sending me legislative updates. The NRA has been helping fight against these SILLY lawsuits against gun manufacturers. The NRA is sponsoring shooting events where NOT ONLY do I compete, but new, young shooter get to try competetive shooting. Lastly, ask yourself this - if the NRA is such a little commie-infiltrated, capitulating, rights-surrendering, compromising bunch on Sallies, then WHY DO THE ANTIS HATE 'EM SOOOOOOOO MUCH???? They GOTTA be doing something right. They are CERTAINLY doing more than Bohica is. I'm left wondering if YOU aren't a LYING ANTI, falsely claiming to own Class III, using the old DIVIDE AND CONQUER approach to separate gun owners from teh BEST (tho NOT perfect) gun rights organization out there.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:16:36 AM EST
I disagree with the NRA on many things, but I'd rather be counted as one of them than be part of the silent majority. The NRA seems to waste most of its time fighting groups like HCI, the Violence Policy Center, and other groups that feel society would be better off if everyone were forceably disarmed and people like us were sent to reeducation facilities for our thoughtcrimes. The NRA is far from perfect, in fact they suck on a lot of things. However, divide-and-conquer is a tried and true methodology - one which is successfully being used to prevent gun owners from standing together. This kind of division is why we're losing our rights to own firearms one gun at a time.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:16:49 AM EST
No Bohica, you're not a pariah. You're just another parasitic gun owner... (APGO)
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:21:46 AM EST
That's funny, the last I heard, the gun manufacturers were going broke under the pressure from all those "silly" lawsuits, at least the ones who weren't in bed with the government. Where was your beloved NRA? I'm certainly not a lying ANTI and have been around this board since the early days. Number of posts does NOT equate to more rights to exist, just less on your plate to do. The retarded summary that "it's the only or best game in town" equates to saying that now that the Nazis control government, I think I'll join the party too. Shame on you!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:22:36 AM EST
I put an NRA sticker on the front door of my restaurant and I love to watch treehuggin' hippies gawk at it. The surest way to get f*cked with in our place is to say something derogatory about guns or suggest that gun control is reasonable. I will support them (US!) until there is no longera threat to freedom.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:25:12 AM EST
Hey Noname, maybe you can send me all your back copies of "American Rifleman" so I can read up on all the GREAT things the NRA has done for me lately. I must live up to my parasitic potential you know...
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:27:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 8:34:55 AM EST by garandman]
Originally Posted By Bohica: The retarded summary that "it's the only or best game in town" equates to saying that now that the Nazis control government, I think I'll join the party too. Shame on you!
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This type of false statement makes us wonder about you. WHO said "its the only game in town, so you should join it??" NO ONE. False accusation is the tool of the ANTI, which more and more I am convinced is where you fit in. The NRA just happens to be the BIGGEST AND BEST game in town. Join GOA, or JPFO, or SAS if you want to take a different approach. But your Slash and burn job against the NRA WILL NOT endear you to ANY gun owners. You MAY find komrade-ship in the ANTI camp though - they like to slash and burn the NRA too.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:30:57 AM EST
What is the alternative? You will never find an organization that you will agree with 100% of the time. The NRA has a pretty powerful lobby and until the time comes that some other organization is that strong you need to support the one that is doing you the most good. Where I'd like to see us concentrate is in the courts and let's find out once and for all the meaning of the 2nd amendment. If the supreme court rules that we're right (and I know we are) then we can dismantle these stupid gun laws.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:31:59 AM EST
I don't understand their views on some things but until I find an organization that does a better job than what they are doing.... Sad as it is to say, they got the best thing going right now as far as battling the "right to bare"
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:37:38 AM EST
Now guys, Bohica's been around for some time. How many anti's would have a clue what "Class 3" meant? He just wants the NRA to be more mlitant in it's fight against the anti's, as I do. We just can't let the NRA's lack of perfection blind us to the good they [b]are[/b] doing. They're not omnipotent, they do lose a few fights. And some they choose not to enter in order to be more effective in the main fight. If they expended all their efforts defending machine guns, they would lose much of what they have in effectivness for the main body of gun owners. We need to support the NRA, not because they're perfect, but because they are our best chance to not lose ground and maybe even gain some back. We also need to support GOA and JFPO and the other "little guys" who are farther out on the tip of the spear. Norm
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:42:22 AM EST
Bohica, I agree with you that the NRA is not perfect, nor are they doing everything I think they should be doing to protect our RKBA. But I would like to see your answer to garandman's question
And ask yourself THIS question - will we ALL be better or worse off if they ceased to exist???
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I think we would be GUNLESS. CrossEyed [sniper]
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:48:11 AM EST
You're damn right your gun rights are being pissed away piece by piece...and the NRA is doing NOTHING to help you! Wake up people. Am I now a pariah here too???
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Yap, yap, yap. What do you want NRA to do about your full auto? NRA is busting its nuts trying for us to keep our regular guns. As for shooting clubs, maybe there's a reason that they don't want full auto. My club used to permit full auto until a few anonymous cowboys shot the range to hell.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:55:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 8:58:16 AM EST by CrimsonGhost]
I still think the solution is quite simple. Either the NRA supports us and our "fringe" guns in writing for the WHOLE constituency to sign off on, or you don't send them their cash. I'm not talking about just machineguns either. They didn't even try that battle in 1986. The McClure Vollmer act passed without opposition from the NRA. The fact is, they are practicing gun bigotry of the worst kind. The NRA is nothing more than a lobbying agency to politicians. Play the game the way they do...with their wallets. Yaworski, there are always assholes shooting up ranges whether on full auto, or as singles over hours. I could do a lot of damage with a bolt action 30.06 too given enough time. Class III owners are more observing of the rules than your average "cowboy". I take it you're not one yourself. Garandman, you are misguided at best.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:59:35 AM EST
The NRA just got done trying to save the evil black rifles in CT. They knocked a lot of the bill out but some still got through. Don't blame the NRA, they don't elect the legislators, the people. The NRA fights gun control tooth and nail. It's only when the NRA members and the people fail to respond, does gun control get passed. The NRA works to educate people on who to elect and which issues are before Congress. Then it's up to the people to actually get off their butts and save their gun rights. If you really think the NRA is doing nothing, then you are really out of touch with reality. Come to Michigan and I can show you what the NRA is doing. Do you think the NRA has enough power to just command gun control bills be thrown out and it would happen, but instead they don't say anything and let them pass? It doesn't work that way. The NRA is a powerful lobbying force but they aren't that strong. To be that strong they need more members and guess what? They need more money! The NRA has to pay top dollar for any TV time they get. The NRA is fighting lawsuits. The NRA is helping elect pro-gun politicians on the State and Federal level. They aren't just burning the money they get, they are putting it to good use and could use a lot more.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:03:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 9:02:00 AM EST by CrimsonGhost]
Originally Posted By SWIRE: The NRA just got done trying to save the evil black rifles in CT. They knocked a lot of the bill out but some still got through. Don't blame the NRA, they don't elect the legislators, the people. The NRA fights gun control tooth and nail. It's only when the NRA members and the people fail to respond, does gun control get passed. The NRA works to educate people on who to elect and which issues are before Congress. Then it's up to the people to actually get off their butts and save their gun rights. If you really think the NRA is doing nothing, then you are really out of touch with reality. Come to Michigan and I can show you what the NRA is doing. Do you think the NRA has enough power to just command gun control bills be thrown out and it would happen, but instead they don't say anything and let them pass? It doesn't work that way. The NRA is a powerful lobbying force but they aren't that strong. To be that strong they need more members and guess what? They need more money! The NRA has to pay top dollar for any TV time they get. The NRA is fighting lawsuits. The NRA is helping elect pro-gun politicians on the State and Federal level. They aren't just burning the money they get, they are putting it to good use and could use a lot more.
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Correction, they let it get through because it didn't affect their masses. Then they should stop squandering it on the "American Rifleman" publication and use it for some plane tickets to CT to light a few more torches for us.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:12:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:13:24 AM EST
I join the NRA at the fun show just so I don't have to wait in line to buy tickets.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:15:24 AM EST
Correction, they let it get through because it didn't affect their masses.
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And just how did they let it get through? They put the word out to voters in CT. They had it featured on NRA Live, showing a picture of a black rifle. Just because the NRA says something or lights a fire, doesn't mean anything will happen with it. Do you understand that? They could have sent Mr. Heston and Wayne, and every other high ranking offical to CT. But that would not have had any more effect, because the CT legislators don't answer to the NRA, they answer to the voters. The voters sat on their asses and let their rights be taken away.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:27:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:28:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica: Garandman, you are misguided at best.
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I hope you are right about me being misguided. I REALLY do. Re: a few of your other points - In 1986, the NRA was alot different than it is now. Less than 1/4 the membership it is now. Which means 1/4 of the $$$$. The political landscape was different - and the NRA was primarily involved in promotion of the shooting sports - NOT legislative items. Granted, they reacted slowly. But this type of attack on freedoms was new. TO ALL OF US. INCLUDING THE NRA. I too could wish teh NRA was more proactive with Class III legislation. But the reality of Washington is you don't go around pissing people off. If the NRA were to become as hardline as I want them to, they would be a COMPLETE pariah in D.C. and get NOTHING AT ALL accomplished. Compromise is the name of the game, and the NRA is NOT gonna change that. The ONLY thing they could accomplish is to COMPLETELY ostracize themselves. The point here is that its all about "tone" - if you don't like the NRA's "tone," don't come 'round here bashing them, GO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Quit your day job and head to D.C to become a lobbyist with your "hardcore" approach, and see how far you get. (Hint: Plan on eating ALOT of bologna and mac and cheese) Or if you aren't THAT dissatisfied with the NRA's approach as to quit your day job, join another organization that has the "tone" that you like. Secondly, re: YOUR "tone" - You come in here bad mouthing the most powerful and effective force in firearms rights in the world today. It is the "tone" of the anti you used. So don't blame me if I get you and them confused.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:29:12 AM EST
Evey frickin group out there will harass you for more money. Quit being a winer, and go Life. They reduce the mailings for Life and above.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:32:01 AM EST
I continue my NRA support because to cancel it would give the gun-grabbing crowd exactly what they want. They have been successful in dividing and conquering gun-owners. While the NRA might not represent all of my views it is a powerful and common force for all of us to preserve our freedom.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:32:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 9:33:28 AM EST by black-guns]
Bohica, i can certainly understand your frustration. I have questioned thier goals vs membership myself, and they certainly do over beg!..My feelings are, for the cost of membership and a little more, it is worth it for them to even be a thorn in the side of anti`s, and since affiliation is highly recognized,it is better to belong. Possibly, the meaning on thier outlook on "fringe" guns was taken slightly out of context, since personally, i have seen nothing to indicate that there is anything but a rkba attitude from them, regardless of how one enjoys the sport....as far as local clubs, it is a individual choice, and the full auto dissention is more due to satisfying the majority, not the few class 3 types who may not be "destructful", just not that numerous..the "moderates" would fall into that majority, and also are the club members who often frown on us shooter types,and they are also the ones who do not worry about gun laws so much, as they feel "immune" to anti efforts. this has been evident where i am a member..i still will support the nra efforts, as well as others who work to allow me to shoot my ar at the range, even though some of my "moderate" fellow club members moan& groan about it.....
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:32:38 AM EST
I joined the NRA because they're the most visible of all the gun groups. I too feel they're not doing enough to promote the cause of black rifles, but they DO stick it to the antis and for that they have my vote (and my contributions). I don't know if it makes any difference, but I'm more likely to donate to NRA/ILA than to NRA proper. In fact, for a while I was under the impression that the NRA abandoned CA, but when I went to the NRA/ILA web site I saw that they had 3-4 cases going against the PRK govt. So, since then I mostly contribute to NRA/ILA. I don't know if they have a common fund, so it might not make any difference. At the range, I noticed a lot of the "hunters" give me dirty looks when I pull out my target AR. Like I was some sort of dirt bag for owning a $2000 AR15. These guys have the mentality of sheep. In fact, I believe the NRA caters to these folks, which just means I have to join additional groups who fully support RKBA, not just the NRA who appears through their inaction in regards to black rifles, to support duck hunters and guys shooting prarie dogs with 22-250 bolt guns. As far as I'm concerned, the 2nd Amendment and RKBA has NOTHING to do with hunting and EVERYTHING to do with your right to keep and bear modern MILITARY small arms. I used caps because this topic is beginning to piss me off.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:34:07 AM EST
Your representatives gauge the support for the RKBA by the membership numbers of the NRA. It's a fact, there is no debating it. Whether you agree with everything the NRA does or not, if you aren't a member, you're letting our cause down. I don't care whether you agree or not.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:36:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 9:38:24 AM EST by DBrewer842]
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:43:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: Your representatives gauge the support for the RKBA by the membership numbers of the NRA. It's a fact, there is no debating it. Whether you agree with everything the NRA does or not, if you aren't a member, you're letting our cause down. I don't care whether you agree or not.
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Here, here RikWriter. I thought it important to note a subject you and I completely agree on. There are SOOOO few of them. But this is one. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:43:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 9:47:04 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Hell, I agree with the NRA on more things than I agree with [b]Miz Hun[/b]! And she sleeps with me![:D] Do whatever you can to see that the right to keep and bear arms is continued in our country after you are gone. Simple as that. How you choose to accomplish that result is your own business, not mine. Just don't bitch about the 800lb. Gorilla that prowls the Halls of Congress on my behalf. Maybe not your behalf, but certainly mine. When you get the 'Bohica Rifle Association' up to the level that the NRA has achieved, give us a call and we'll come running to your tent. [red][b][i]'For whosoever is not against us is on our side'[/i][/b][/red]Mark IX,v.39 Until then, I'm the NRA. Eric The(SoSorry,It'sAMatterOfReligion)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:45:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Evey frickin group out there will harass you for more money. Quit being a winer, and go Life. They reduce the mailings for Life and above.
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WTF was this???
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:49:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica:
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Evey frickin group out there will harass you for more money. Quit being a winer, and go Life. They reduce the mailings for Life and above.
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WTF was this???
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It IS the answer to your problem. If you became a LIFE MEMBER of the NRA, they wouldn't have to waste any more of MY contributions trying to get YOU to renew EVERY year.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:50:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By mattja: I joined the NRA because they're the most visible of all the gun groups. I too feel they're not doing enough to promote the cause of black rifles, but they DO stick it to the antis and for that they have my vote (and my contributions). I don't know if it makes any difference, but I'm more likely to donate to NRA/ILA than to NRA proper. In fact, for a while I was under the impression that the NRA abandoned CA, but when I went to the NRA/ILA web site I saw that they had 3-4 cases going against the PRK govt. So, since then I mostly contribute to NRA/ILA. I don't know if they have a common fund, so it might not make any difference. At the range, I noticed a lot of the "hunters" give me dirty looks when I pull out my target AR. Like I was some sort of dirt bag for owning a $2000 AR15. These guys have the mentality of sheep. In fact, I believe the NRA caters to these folks, which just means I have to join additional groups who fully support RKBA, not just the NRA who appears through their inaction in regards to black rifles, to support duck hunters and guys shooting prarie dogs with 22-250 bolt guns. As far as I'm concerned, the 2nd Amendment and RKBA has NOTHING to do with hunting and EVERYTHING to do with your right to keep and bear modern MILITARY small arms. I used caps because this topic is beginning to piss me off.
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Couldn't agree more. The 2nd Amendment wasn't written with duck hunters and varmit shooters in mind. It was written for you to keep your martial arms for protection against tyranny from governments BOTH here and abroad. I'm sorry if you NRA folk misinterpreted that.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 9:55:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica: Couldn't agree more. The 2nd Amendment wasn't written with duck hunters and varmit shooters in mind. It was written for you to keep your martial arms for protection against tyranny from governments BOTH here and abroad. I'm sorry if you NRA folk misinterpreted that.
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As a life member of teh NRA, I agree with that 1000%. YOU are misguided as to what NRA members think. We just happen to think that jamming that message down everyones throat is NOT the way to EVENTUALLY get everyone else to believe that as well.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:22:46 AM EST
And the "moderates" are the experts who are the duck hunters with a 1100 or the varmint shooters who DON`T join the nra, because they feel secure for some reason....i`ve seen them in the shops, even as the salesmen are taking a lot of time to persuade them to join....they will not!..just can`t be bothered!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:23:15 AM EST
garandman...I find it curious that you support the toning down of rhetoric of us apparently "fringe" gun owners, and yet you go apeshit any time someone advocates the same with christian discussions on this board.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:30:09 AM EST
I support the NRA because they are just so powerful! No.1 lobbying group in the country. Lobbying for something I believe in.... No brainer. It takes money to run it...so what. Money talks in Washington and thats a fact. So send them some extra doe every now and then. Big Deal. Think of the payback. Also, without the NRA there would only be 1 week of Camp Perry HighPower Rifle. Who classifies the shooters? The NRA is very valuable and we all better join and support them.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:42:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica: garandman...I find it curious that you support the toning down of rhetoric of us apparently "fringe" gun owners, and yet you go apeshit any time someone advocates the same with christian discussions on this board.
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(heavy sigh) DANG IT MAN _ READ MY POST!!!!!! I said I am ONE OF you "fringe gun owners" I support Class III ownership, as THAT is what the Second Amendment is all about. The analogy you draw above is flawed. Mostly it is other people telling me to go away, shut up, or keep my religion to myself, or in the church. I haven't advocated that you be silenced - simply that you change your methodology to a more effective one. Tell ya what - take your Class III up to the state house and brandish it about. That would be a great way to make a statement.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:43:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Walking: It takes money to run it...so what. Money talks in Washington and thats a fact. So send them some extra doe every now and then. Big Deal. Think of the payback.
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Here here. I would rather the NRA buy off the scumbags in our behalf than MMM/VPC/HCI buy them off in their behalf. It's a crappy situation, but you have to play by the rules to keep in the game. In a perfect world it wouldn't work this way. However, I am 100% convinced that our cause is just, so regardless of who we have to buy off, in the end I don't feel bad about it. Of course, I sure the MMM sheeple feel their cause is just too.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:44:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:46:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By black&green: And the "moderates" are the experts who are the duck hunters with a 1100 or the varmint shooters who DON`T join the nra, because they feel secure for some reason....i`ve seen them in the shops, even as the salesmen are taking a lot of time to persuade them to join....they will not!..just can`t be bothered!
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"Moderates" was from the mouth of the NRA representative on the phone, not me. If it's not duck hunters making up the majority of the "moderates" in the NRA, then who are they? The "moderates" to me are the guys in the NRA hats walking around the gun shows looking at our table disdainfully and then saying, "these guns are the reason my rights are being trampled on". That happens at least once every show we're displaying various class III weapons and silencers.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:53:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By Bohica: garandman...I find it curious that you support the toning down of rhetoric of us apparently "fringe" gun owners, and yet you go apeshit any time someone advocates the same with christian discussions on this board.
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(heavy sigh) DANG IT MAN _ READ MY POST!!!!!! I said I am ONE OF you "fringe gun owners" I support Class III ownership, as THAT is what the Second Amendment is all about. The analogy you draw above is flawed. Mostly it is other people telling me to go away, shut up, or keep my religion to myself, or in the church. I haven't advocated that you be silenced - simply that you change your methodology to a more effective one. Tell ya what - take your Class III up to the state house and brandish it about. That would be a great way to make a statement.
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"We just happen to think that jamming that message down everyones throat is NOT the way to EVENTUALLY get everyone else to believe that as well." (garandman) The above statement was yours and I believe was an endorsement for "toning it down". Toning it down has gotten us where we are at today. Timidness hasn't seemed to win over any anti's that I'm aware of.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:56:40 AM EST
I continue to support the NRA because I believe that the reality of the second ammendment has alot of latitude in it and I need to support as many organizations as I can to make sure that we are able to keep as many of the types of guns available to us as we can. The only way to do this is by supporting large interest groups who can affect legislation more directly that I can. As far as the latitude in the 2nd, the reality of the wording and case precedent on this ammendment gives lawmakers alot of room for legislation. What do I mean? Basically, the 2nd protects the right of the individual to own weapons of military value. Of course, that right is subject to regulation as stated in the 2nd ( ie "A well regulated militia ). Also, the logical implication of the Miller is that the citizen must have access to weapons of military value. It does not say all weapons of military value. The fact that the 2nd itself calls for regulation and that the supreme court precendent does not give us an absolute right gives the anti's a foothold. I believe that the letter of the law provides for things like background checks, smart guns, safety locks and even high capacity magazine bans because even with those things in place, it is arguable that the weapons remaining still have military value and the letter of the law has not been violated. So where does that leave us? The RKBA is not an absolute right as I have read in miller, the constitution, etc. The right to own anything we want is not explicitly given to use in the 2nd or through previous court cases, so if we want the legal right to own say full auto weapons, we need an organization that can influence legislation to give us that right. I believe that the NRA, the GOA, and others are the types of organizations that can give us the laws that will grant us greater gun freedom. I do not believe the ban of a category of firearms, mandatory registration, and or smart guns provide for a safer society. In fact, the only purpose of these laws is to make gun ownership a nightmare and an unpopular right. They can not change the constitution but the anti's can make owning a gun so difficult that the number of people who own them will be 10-20% of what we have today. This is just wrong and I will not stand for it! That is why I am a member of the NRA and the GOA. The only way to fight politics is with politics.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 10:59:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica:
Originally Posted By black&green: And the "moderates" are the experts who are the duck hunters with a 1100 or the varmint shooters who DON`T join the nra, because they feel secure for some reason....i`ve seen them in the shops, even as the salesmen are taking a lot of time to persuade them to join....they will not!..just can`t be bothered!
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"Moderates" was from the mouth of the NRA representative on the phone, not me. If it's not duck hunters making up the majority of the "moderates" in the NRA, then who are they? The "moderates" to me are the guys in the NRA hats walking around the gun shows looking at our table disdainfully and then saying, "these guns are the reason my rights are being trampled on". That happens at least once every show we're displaying various class III weapons and silencers.
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It seems we agree on who "moderates" are, wether they belong to nra or not, but it is hard to think of how to open thier minds as to gun ownership. i can relate, somewhat, since i was once, a person who would fit into this category, but the difference in my case was that i would never disagree on a persons choice of "weapon" since i always had the same attitude toward rkba. I`m not sure that the nra is SUPPORTIVE of "moderates", but would rather that the membership have a equal view on the 2nd. Either way, it is not enough to stop me from membership, and i have carefully considered it in the past. Fact is, we need all the help we can get.......
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:00:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica: The "moderates" to me are the guys in the NRA hats walking around the gun shows looking at our table disdainfully and then saying, "these guns are the reason my rights are being trampled on". That happens at least once every show we're displaying various class III weapons and silencers.
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You can't pin what that asshole says on the NRA. Was Heston himself there saying that? All the NRA members I know (except one or two), and I know MANY NRA members, support all forms of guns. Full autos (I refuse to call them Class III; that is a name given to them by oppressive government), handguns, shotguns, rifles, and muzzle loaders.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:05:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:05:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 11:07:21 AM EST by CrimsonGhost]
Originally Posted By DBrewer842: Everything comes with a price and the bill of rights comes with the biggest price of all. To preserve these rights takes one of two things, one being money and the other being blood. People who sit back and piss and moan about this, that and the other thing, but wont get off there 6 foot wide butt to make the effort to change it. Deserve to lose their rights. This great nation of ours was not built on the backs of cry babies, it was built threw blood, sweat and tears. To sit on ones butt and voice words of discontent serve no real purpose but telling someone that you feel that your above those who are willing and are doing the fighting. However when its all done and finnish if successful the whiners want to be the first to take all the credit, and should it fail they are the first to point fingers to the ones that carried the fight as the reason why it failed. Dave Dee AR15.com Moderator of Reloading Forum A great place to get answers to your reloading questions.
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I'm not a member of the NRA...so does this mean you'll getting off your big fat 6ft wide butt and making the NRA acknowledge assault weapons and avow to support us "fringe" (their word) shooters that are "costing them membership renewals"??? (their words again) How much "fighting" and "bloodshed" have you suffered from your keyboard Dave? I've served my country in time of war (and continue to) Dave and earned the right to "piss and moan" about this, that and the other thing, and for all I can see, my gun rights are no better off.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 11:06:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bohica: "We just happen to think that jamming that message down everyones throat is NOT the way to EVENTUALLY get everyone else to believe that as well." (garandman) The above statement was yours and I believe was an endorsement for "toning it down". Toning it down has gotten us where we are at today. Timidness hasn't seemed to win over any anti's that I'm aware of.
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NOW you are starting to get close to the heart of the matter. The antis are a lost cause. We'll NEVER convince them, 'cuz they are INCAPABLE of logic, as they have sold their bodies, minds and souls to "agenda." The ONLY thing that will work with them is FORCE. BRUTE FORCE. But we aren't yet to the point where that is necessary (we MAY only be one generation away) However... ...the guys with the NRA hats turning their noses up at your Class III (which I would all drool and lust over if I walked by) do you think "brute force" will bring them into teh fold?? No. Calm, dispassionate logic, reasoning and discussion and education is the way to go. "I hate the NRA" ain't gonna WOW them into agreeing with us. You are preaching to the choir. I agree with your principles. MOST people here do. Its your methodology that is suspect, IMO. If I were you, and wanted to make a change in teh NRA, I would work from within, NOT bash it from without. Honestly, I think you are letting your frustration (a frustration I SHARE) get the better of you.
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