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Posted: 12/29/2012 4:57:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 5:00:10 AM EDT by Will]
It's really a simple question. I have repeatedly heard-especially here from certain folks, that "The idea that citizens could stand up to the American military is a joke".....Well, ok, let's not go there....but then tell me WHY they want to take them away? If they aren't afraid of them, then why expend the political capital etc...to take them-cause they KNOW it will be a shitstorm?.... Here's what I think- In poker, we call it a tell.....someone has checked their hole card....and they aren't as sure as the "experts" are.


Again, please, please don't violate the COC in advocating the overthrow of the government and shooting police or federal agents. I want to know why you think they want to take guns away from the American people if there is no chance they could be successful in resisting government oppression. Do they really believe that society would be "safer"?
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 4:58:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 6:05:58 AM EDT by kno3sc3h40]
NINC!

Because power corrupts,and they want to enslave/control/command you. The only way that can be done is to take away any chance you have to fight back. Also I do not believe our active duty military would go against the citizens, but they also do not want to do a military takeover of the elected officials. They would assist the armed citizens in removing the tyrants.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:01:28 AM EDT
The same reason why people worried about their spouse cheating on them are the most likely to cheat.

Libs think if you have a gun, you will use it to finish any argument or altercation...because they would if they got mad enough.

Mental disorder, but they can't trust themselves so they ant trust you.

And, how else will they feed the masses once we run out of money?


Solent green is people!!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:02:48 AM EDT
One thing I want to make clear is that I'm not talking about the average liberal idiot on the street. I'm talking about the people who MAKE policy etc....The voters are just "useful idiots".
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:05:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 5:06:06 AM EDT by Eukatae]
The idea that an unconventional army couldn't and wouldn't adopt and develop tactics to nullify the weapons of a better equipped army is foolish and ignorant of recent history.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:06:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Will:
One thing I want to make clear is that I'm not talking about the average liberal idiot on the street. I'm talking about the people who MAKE policy etc....The voters are just "useful idiots".


See there is your mistake. The ones who make policy are just as big of idiots as the voters. The only difference is that THEY believe themselves to be smarter or more educated than the masses.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:06:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Will:
One thing I want to make clear is that I'm not talking about the average liberal idiot on the street. I'm talking about the people who MAKE policy etc....The voters are just "useful idiots".


While I think some politicians actually believe the stuff they spew, the majority of politicians just want a career in office and will do whatever is popular to stay in office. Unfortunately, banning 'assault weapons' is a popular hot topic and many are seizing the opportunity to win voters over. It's why politicians flip-flop.

Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:06:58 AM EDT
I think a better question is why are there so many dumbass threads made in the last couple weeks?
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:06:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 5:33:02 AM EDT by cda97]
It's the nature of government to seek control over its populace.

I also believe that liberals know that us right wing, conservative, nut jobs love our guns and do this to be complete assholes about it out of spite to watch us cry.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:07:39 AM EDT
Taking away the guns most suitable for defense is the beginning of a process which won't end until people can longer defend themselves and regard this situation as normal.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:08:26 AM EDT
How did the Vietcong do against us?

Saddam's Feydayeen idiots?

Guerrilla warfare would be the order of the day. Until the rebels get their hands on some hardware.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:08:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Eukatae:
The idea that an unconventional army couldn't and wouldn't adopt and develop tactics to nullify the weapons of a better equipped army is foolish and ignorant of recent history.


But could that unconventional army adopt such deplorable acts against the very populace they fight for? Or use those tactics against the men and women that serve their own nation? I just don't see it. The theory is sound, but the execution makes us unworthy of winning.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:11:55 AM EDT
We've reached the point where it's time to get the line drawn. Mother fucking commies on one side and freedom lovers on the other. This isn't going to get resolved in
any chat rooms or forums but in the streets. Every city in this country is going to need a march in force. Make those fucking occupiers look like piss ants.
I am so tired of the minority mother fuckers getting their way. We will need every AR owner/ 2nd amendment loving citizen in this country in the street with his/her gun strapped to their body, peacefully of course, but prepared just in case.
We will look like the Zulu tribe in the end of that movie against the British. Maybe that will send a chill up Chris Mathews leg.
This whole debate ends one of 3 ways.
1. We roll over and they ban guns
2. We show our resolve and they back down
3. We have a civil war and the winner decides
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:12:03 AM EDT
Because they really want a big gun ban.....but don't think that would fly. So they sell everybody that they want to ban things like AR and AK which is easy to demonize. But when they write the ban....they slip in as many guns as they can. And then they have a starting point for the next ban, all they have to do is wait for the next big shooting....
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:14:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NuclearCookies:
Originally Posted By Eukatae:
The idea that an unconventional army couldn't and wouldn't adopt and develop tactics to nullify the weapons of a better equipped army is foolish and ignorant of recent history.


But could that unconventional army adopt such deplorable acts against the very populace they fight for? Or use those tactics against the men and women that serve their own nation? I just don't see it. The theory is sound, but the execution makes us unworthy of winning.


How were our forefathers successful?
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:16:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Because they really want a big gun ban.....but don't think that would fly. So they sell everybody that they want to ban things like AR and AK which is easy to demonize. But when they write the ban....they slip in as many guns as they can. And then they have a starting point for the next ban, all they have to do is wait for the next big shooting....


This...incrementalism. The left is patient. Eventually they'll be confiscating 18th century muskets as well, but they'll have trampled the 2nd amendment to death by that point and most people will believe that TJ and GW didn't actually want people to have such deadly firepower...
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:21:20 AM EDT
WHY..do people keep insisting on calling them assault weapons
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:23:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 5:23:22 AM EDT by Eukatae]
Originally Posted By NuclearCookies:
Originally Posted By Eukatae:
The idea that an unconventional army couldn't and wouldn't adopt and develop tactics to nullify the weapons of a better equipped army is foolish and ignorant of recent history.


But could that unconventional army adopt such deplorable acts against the very populace they fight for? Or use those tactics against the men and women that serve their own nation? I just don't see it. The theory is sound, but the execution makes us unworthy of winning.


I don't think the tactics need be terroristic or punitive. I think you can fight a tank by fighting where it can't go or fighting a drone by fighting its logistics chain. Sure interdiction is going to have civilian casualties but as long as civilian casualties aren't the objective....
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:27:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
How did the Vietcong do against us?

Saddam's Feydayeen idiots?

Guerrilla warfare would be the order of the day. Until the rebels get their hands on some hardware.


Both the Vietcong and the Fedayeen Saddam were killed by the dozens, easily, and often....to the point that they both ceased to be a significant threat to the US military.
Rebels would never be able to effectively use "real hardware." The only way an rebellion would be successful is if it either involved a significant portion of the populace and they were willing to actually risk their lives, or if the US military became ineffective due to morale and loyalty conflicts.

I don't see people willing to put their iphones down and walk away from their families to go fight for anything. Most of those types already joined the .mil.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:27:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By reaper556:
WHY..do people keep insisting on calling them assault weapons


Pisses me off, too - we have adopted the language of the left...
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:30:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Infantry26:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Because they really want a big gun ban.....but don't think that would fly. So they sell everybody that they want to ban things like AR and AK which is easy to demonize. But when they write the ban....they slip in as many guns as they can. And then they have a starting point for the next ban, all they have to do is wait for the next big shooting....


This...incrementalism. The left is patient. Eventually they'll be confiscating 18th century muskets as well, but they'll have trampled the 2nd amendment to death by that point and most people will believe that TJ and GW didn't actually want people to have such deadly firepower...


Oh it wouldn't stop there either..........they will want to ban anything that was designed to be a weapon. As one friend of mine said......"You shouldn't be allowed anything that was intended to hurt another human being"
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:31:45 AM EDT
They don't want us to shoot the blue helmets when that time comes.

Link Posted: 12/29/2012 5:44:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 5:44:56 AM EDT by DSAFAL]
Because Its the only thing we have left to resist they're nanny state blue helmet Government...
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:02:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Will:
One thing I want to make clear is that I'm not talking about the average liberal idiot on the street. I'm talking about the people who MAKE policy etc....The voters are just "useful idiots".

Because they are not really "socialists" or "fascists" or any other ists. They are merely looking for naked power. Had they truly been the socialists that they we accuse them of being they could have left guns alone and we would have been socialists by now.

In addition to the actual ability to defend yourself, a gun provides a symbol of resistance. And now is when we have to remember the words of Stalin, "We wouldn't let them have ideas, why would we let them have guns?"
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:04:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 6:08:04 AM EDT by BWood]
the real reason they want all AW's out of civillian possession is an unarmed populace is much easier to control

after AW's are out of the hands...it will be telescopic sighted hunting rifles which will be called "sniper weapons". There will be a rash of snipings which will instigate the ban.

After that...semi auto pistols

make no doubt about it....they want control of all of us.

Line is drawn in the sand for me at this point. done fucking around with these elitists
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:11:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Eukatae:
The idea that an unconventional army couldn't and wouldn't adopt and develop tactics to nullify the weapons of a better equipped army is foolish and ignorant of recent history.


My good sir, you would not be talking about the armpit of Afghanistan vs the USSR and then the USA, now would you?
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:13:14 AM EDT
Gun control isn't about guns.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:42:12 AM EDT
I attended the Brady groups renew the assault weapon ban event in DC back in 2002

The room had 3 or 4 speakers and a bunch of VPC and Brady staffers
And not many others.

The main speaker was a spechul forces CIA advisor in nam

Who spoke about the Uzi that he had over there
and how that firepower had no place in the public in the US

Afterwards, I engaged him in some gunny banter and got him to express
how much fun it was to dump a magazine from a FA gun.
The VPC staffer hanging range got really upset when I suggested that
many honest hardworking Americans also enjoy safely shooting quaint antique 1960s designs
like the AR15.


Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:46:39 AM EDT
They want to take all guns, but they feel they can get away with this as a first step because they look scary, thereby allowing them to convince shrill, hysterical, liberal, Obama-voting, bed-wetting women to support a ban.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:49:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadPatriot:
How did the Vietcong do against us?

Saddam's Feydayeen idiots?

Guerrilla warfare would be the order of the day. Until the rebels get their hands on some hardware.

They got their asses kicked. Basically ceased to exist after Tet.

The NVA won the war, after we left.

Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:50:16 AM EDT
As much as I would also like to believe the conspiracy theories. I honestly believe that the gun grabbers think they are doing a good thing. They shut themselves off from anything or anyone that would challenge that belief.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:54:08 AM EDT
Start with the easiest (to sell to the public) then every few years, kick it up a notch.

Doesn't matter if it's taxes or gun control, the government always starts small, and always increases.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:58:21 AM EDT
I thinks because they are the easiest type to talk us into banning. Progressives work incrementally, they get "assault weapons" now and immediately start working on pistols, then "sniper" rifles-Rem. 700 w/scope-, then revolvers and so on.

The other is that "assault weapons" are the best choices to defend yourself from whoever.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 6:58:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By reaper556:
WHY..do people keep insisting on calling them assault weapons


RIGHT!

In a RAPE what is the "assault weapon"?

STOP RAPE!

Ban the penis!

Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:02:38 AM EDT
All Politicians are insecure pathological liars and control freaks, need I say more.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:03:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Because they really want a big gun ban.....but don't think that would fly. So they sell everybody that they want to ban things like AR and AK which is easy to demonize. But when they write the ban....they slip in as many guns as they can. And then they have a starting point for the next ban, all they have to do is wait for the next big shooting....


This is the correct answer.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:04:14 AM EDT
We are not the paranoid ones. They are
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:07:27 AM EDT
It's really a matter of trust. Some folks trust our government for security, freedom, food, healthcare, shelter, cradle to grave. It scares the shit out of these folks to think that they may have to fend for themselves and they will go along with anything they are told.
Most folks realize that the government is simply comprised of men. men who are fallible, corruptible and will take the easy path.
Question is how many realize they may be staking their lives on it.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:08:39 AM EDT
I've wondered about this topic as well.

Here's the pattern with AWBs:

The legislation is proposed

Both sides begin screaming

Time passes

Nothing happens

Repeat.


It's a political mechanism for wasting time, smoke to cover other events and to divert support/attention from other activities
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:16:37 AM EDT
An AWB is the first half of, Divide & Conquer.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:16:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Beltfedleadhead:
I've wondered about this topic as well.

Here's the pattern with AWBs:

The legislation is proposed

Both sides begin screaming

Time passes

Nothing happens

Repeat.


It's a political mechanism for wasting time, smoke to cover other events and to divert support/attention from other activities


Yeah, except for that one time in 1994.

. . . and that other time in 1968.

. . . and 1934.


But otherwise, I totally see what you're saying.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:19:38 AM EDT
As an LEO and former .mil infantryman who has fought in war I can unequivocally tell you that "yes" a man with a rifle CAN standup to the military. A lone rifleman kept our battalion at bay for 30 days in Ramadi....one man.


Yes, "we" could stand up against the .mil. They know that too
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:25:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Infantry26:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Because they really want a big gun ban.....but don't think that would fly. So they sell everybody that they want to ban things like AR and AK which is easy to demonize. But when they write the ban....they slip in as many guns as they can. And then they have a starting point for the next ban, all they have to do is wait for the next big shooting....


This...incrementalism. The left is patient. Eventually they'll be confiscating 18th century muskets as well, but they'll have trampled the 2nd amendment to death by that point and most people will believe that TJ and GW didn't actually want people to have such deadly firepower...


They know that they can slowly erode our freedoms (not just guns) over a long period of time and by the time we notice it will be too late. Kinda like the boiling a frog analogy. With everyone's head in an ipad in their own little world most people won't notice at all. The ones that are vocal will be classified as radicals and nutjobs. enjoy the new bright and shiny American Dream!!



Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:28:14 AM EDT
Did Hitler let the people of Germany have semi-auto military type firearms---------?
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:31:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:35:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 7:39:32 AM EDT by 2hawk]
Good explanation here.

"...Whenever a political movement seeks to disarm the citizen, it is necessarily simultaneously seeking to expand the power of the federal government,..."


and another good view, with a first hand account of what happened in the '92 LA riots: Jew Without a Gun

"...Just as Obamacare has nothing to do with health, and cap and trade has nothing to do with so-called global warming, anti-gun laws have nothing to do with saving children’s lives.

It’s just another opportunity for the left to centralize power..."
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:47:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 7:48:21 AM EDT by garr]
Originally Posted By Eukatae:
The idea that an unconventional army couldn't and wouldn't adopt and develop tactics to nullify the weapons of a better equipped army is foolish and ignorant of recent history.


Tell that to the estimated 50,000 Viet Cong who tied up 552,000 US Ground Combat troops +a large part of the US Air Force & Navy with all that Firepower for over 10 years, Not to mention the 900,000 South Vietnamese Army forces.
+ remember, many of the rebels would be members of the very forces sent to destroy the rebels. And the American public is Better armed & equipped than any rebel force ever was, That is why they want to disarm us!!
Google green-on-blue" attacks.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:48:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lockinload:
We've reached the point where it's time to get the line drawn. Mother fucking commies on one side and freedom lovers on the other. This isn't going to get resolved in
any chat rooms or forums but in the streets. Every city in this country is going to need a march in force. Make those fucking occupiers look like piss ants.
I am so tired of the minority mother fuckers getting their way. We will need every AR owner/ 2nd amendment loving citizen in this country in the street with his/her gun strapped to their body, peacefully of course, but prepared just in case.
We will look like the Zulu tribe in the end of that movie against the British. Maybe that will send a chill up Chris Mathews leg.
This whole debate ends one of 3 ways.
1. We roll over and they ban guns
2. We show our resolve and they back down
3. We have a civil war and the winner decides


THIS.... Why is there no nationwide protest initiated by the NRA of the SAF?

People in the streets protesting in mass numbers sends a strong message, armed or not..
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 8:01:07 AM EDT
I always figured it was one of two things:
1 Guerilla warfare can still be effective.Forget the Vietcong and muslim fanatics: think IRA,the Balkans,Mexican cartels.
2 Progressives have been trying to change our culture for decades to be more dependent on govt. authority.Firearms are a symbol of self reliance.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 8:25:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 8:25:47 AM EDT by garr]
Originally Posted By dennyd:
Did Hitler let the people of Germany have semi-auto military type firearms---------?


There were no semi auto military type firearms available to the public back then.
Hitler did not let anyone own any firearms at all, First he passed a law forcing registration, "You know to keep them out of the hands of anarchist & communist".
Then once he knew where they all were, he sent out his Brown shirt thugs to collect them up.
To ensure compliance, If you told them you "lost all your firearms in a tragic boating accident" The shot you in the head!
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 8:26:07 AM EDT
First post again.
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