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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/10/2002 9:50:13 AM EDT
Hey. . . I'm courius, what EXACT PART of a rifle, makes it the rifle? I mean, on an AR-15, it's the lower reciver, right? Well, WHAT EXACT PART of the lower reciver? If you had a pre-ban ar-15 lower reciver, and cut the part with the serial number off, and destroied the rest, is the part with the serial number the rifle? can you weld that onto a port ban lower, making the postban lower no a pre-ban? I mean, it's the same deal as if you just swapped the complete lower onto the post-ban, right? So, how about this, if you can change any part of the AR-15 you want as long as it's pre-ban and not full-auto capable (can't accept DIAS, etc), what's to say a diffrent rifle, say an m96, isn't a pre-ban Ar-15 IF you were to take a pre-ban AR-15, chop it all tp peices and take the portion of the lower that makes it a pre-ban rifle and weld it onto the m96? say, if you cut the S/N portion of the pre-ban AR lower and put it on the m96? What about non-AR rifles? What portion MAKES it the pre-ban rifle? Does this make any since to you guys? Basically, I'd like to buy a crappy pre-ban XX rifle, and a new port ban rifle, and destroy the pre EXCEPT for the part that makes it a Pre-ban rifle, and use that part on my post-ban, making it a preban so I can put a folding stock and surpressor on it. As far as I can figure, it's no diffrent that taking 2 AR's, a pre-ban and a post ban, and swapping the lower reciver from the pre to the post, and getting rid of the extra parts so you don't have the parts to build a pre-ban CFG upper on a post-ban lower. ???? Well? Thanks, Justin
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 10:54:00 AM EDT
Assuming we're only talking semis here (machineguns are a totally different matter), you have to understand a "preban" is different than a "rifle". A pre-ban is a subset of rifles - being a complete rifle with certain extra features. The receiver is the firearm under federal law - just a receiver is not a preban though. If you cut a receiver to pieces, it may no longer even be a receiver - it can cease to be a firearm. At that point, when you reassemble rifle #2 with the same serial number as deceased rifle #1, you've only made a new (postban) rifle, regardless of whether the original rifle receiver from which it was taken was on a pre-ban gun or a postban gun. NOw if you want to know exactly how many cuts you can make before a receiver becomes scrap metal rather than continuing to be a firearm, you'll have to write to the Tech Branch.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:30:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 4:34:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 7:47:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2002 7:56:41 PM EDT by K-9]
I got this from the wbardwel board, "an AR-15 stripped receiver only, although defined as a "firearm" by the gun control act (18 U.S.C. section 921(a) (3) (b), is not a "semiautomatic assault weapon" until it has two or more of the listed features" Wouldn't this mean a AR lower with a pistol grip and collapsible stock and will take high cap mags, mean the lower is a preban assault weapon? I also see the description "stripped lower" a lot, as I see it a stripped lower is without pistol grip, without collapsible stock, or do other see it differently? In the bushmaster catalog they show a "stripped lower" receiver and also complete lowers.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 9:31:38 PM EDT
A stripped Colt AR-15 lower receiver, so-marked, is an assault weapon regardless of its state of assembly. One not actually marked "Colt AR-15," made by any company, Colt included, must be a complete semiautomatic weapon or kit with two or more evil features.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 12:18:14 AM EDT
holy crap, this guy is really confused, yes, rip apart a preban lower except for the part with the serial # on it and then weld that on to your postban ar, that will make it preban.. DONT DO THAT!! what the hell... no there is no such thing as a cheapo preban lower, if you want your evil features, you will have to buy a preban, and that will cost you $1000+ You can buy a preban lower, and then put your own features on it as replacement parts, but it has to have been sold as a complete rifle before sept 94, and you have to be able to document this. but your still going to pay at least 7 or $800 for a stripped lower
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 12:36:24 AM EDT
I'm thinking he wants to cut the serial # off "another" type of pre-ban rifle, (a Mini-14 or SKS for example) then weld that number to his AR15 to make it a "pre-ban" Mini14/AR15 Franken-rifle. This is some funky logic here, but no idea is a bad one.
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 1:01:59 AM EDT
$1000??? i only paid $900 for my complete pre-ban ar-15 with a custom upper
Originally Posted By MAHABALI: holy crap, this guy is really confused, yes, rip apart a preban lower except for the part with the serial # on it and then weld that on to your postban ar, that will make it preban.. DONT DO THAT!! what the hell... no there is no such thing as a cheapo preban lower, if you want your evil features, you will have to buy a preban, and that will cost you $1000+ You can buy a preban lower, and then put your own features on it as replacement parts, but it has to have been sold as a complete rifle before sept 94, and you have to be able to document this. but your still going to pay at least 7 or $800 for a stripped lower
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Link Posted: 4/11/2002 8:33:15 AM EDT
Thanks for the info Guys. That's exactly what I needed to know. Basically, I've been TRYING to find some sort of legal way to put a folding stock and silencer on an new M96 rifle. That was the only possibility I could think of. Some sort of "loophole" as to what would work, just like how a F/A sear for an HK counts as the MG, so whatever you put it is is the MG. Evidently that doesn't work with the "ass. rifle" definition. . ..:-(. I guess I'll have to "settle" for an (pre-ban) ar15 with collapable stock and surpressor:-). Actually, I'll prob. go with an m16 sp1 with (both the origional furnature and) a collapsable stock and m4 style upper (flat top), with surpressor. . . . So, thanks again, Justin
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 8:26:46 AM EDT
If you want a cheap Pre-Ban, you can buy a Pre-Ban M12 Receiver for $50. Yes, the M12 is a named receiver under 921(a)(30)(A).
Originally Posted By TheProfessional: I'm thinking he wants to cut the serial # off "another" type of pre-ban rifle, (a Mini-14 or SKS for example) then weld that number to his AR15 to make it a "pre-ban" Mini14/AR15 Franken-rifle. This is some funky logic here, but no idea is a bad one.
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Link Posted: 4/14/2002 9:23:58 AM EDT
Why destroty one pre-ban gun to try and fake another one? Scott
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 11:37:35 AM EDT
Easy, a preban M12 reciever is $50, a pre-ban AR15 reciever is $750 or more.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 10:09:14 PM EDT
Then there's the all expenses paid trip to Club Fed and a new friend named Bubba whose face you'll never see because he's always behind you. You're talking criminal activity guys. All M96's are postban. There's nothing you can legally do about it.
Link Posted: 4/15/2002 3:36:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheProfessional: I'm thinking he wants to cut the serial # off "another" type of pre-ban rifle, (a Mini-14 or SKS for example) then weld that number to his AR15 to make it a "pre-ban" Mini14/AR15 Franken-rifle. This is some funky logic here, but no idea is a bad one.
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"Make it a 'pre-ban'" by welding a new serial number onto an obliterated one? Just so there's no confusion, that, in fact, IS a bad idea. Why? 'Cause it's illegal as hell. Then again, you guys already know that. BTW, obliterating the serial number itself is a federal crime and, in most states, a violation of state law.
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