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Posted: 8/31/2004 8:30:34 AM EST
Exception being if you serve in the Military or other Civil Service. Just my opinion, but it seems like the younger generation is too out of touch with the world around them to cast an educated vote. Most of the KIDS I talk to are going to vote for Kerry cause he's "Cool". Any similar experiences?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:31:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:33:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 8:35:46 AM EST by NSFJojo]
But I think we have to exclude minorities because everyone knows they vote democrat.


ETA: sarcasm
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:34:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 8:34:53 AM EST by mtechgunman]
Ya ok. And then we will not let women vote either.

ETA:
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:34:58 AM EST
I think only men with clean cut hair should vote.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:36:44 AM EST
Nope. I'm 19. I first wrote what I would consider the "ideal" platform, then compared Bush's and Kerry's platforms to it.

Then I looked at each canidates track record, and felt that Bush was by far one of the most moral presidents this country has had.

And don't feel too bad, most kids from 18-20 group wont be voting because most the ones around here think thier vote dont matter...and yes, most of them like kerry more, so no complaints from me.

John


Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:37:21 AM EST
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:38:02 AM EST
This is almost as ridiculous as the thread that said we should move all the democrats to california and then cut them off.

Waste of time that is for sure
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:38:06 AM EST
hell, most college kids talk the talk, but they don't even know when election day is!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:42:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 8:42:31 AM EST by USMC2111]
Hmmm, if you're old enough to give your life for your country, you should be able to vote.

Following your logic, anyone over 65 should not be able to vote, because they are likely to follow the AARP party line.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:42:54 AM EST
Not really a catch all. My 16 year old niece is, if anything, more conservative than me. Which I find hilarious because her mother and step-father are about as left as you can get.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:43:37 AM EST
Actually, last I hear Bush was WAAAAAY ahead in teenagers and young people.

Just those trust fund anarchists and overprotected college students that give a bad reputation for all the young people.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:44:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
Ya ok. And then we will not let women vote either.

ETA:



Off the subject! Only women under 21
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:44:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
I agree, it should also be limited to those who own real property.




Bingo. I completely agree.

CMOS
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:44:56 AM EST
This will be my first vote, and it is going to Bush.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:46:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Hmmm, if you're old enough to give your life for your country, you should be able to vote.

.

agreed.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:46:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz



I'm concerned because this particular age group seems more inclined to peer pressure, and most of this group favors Kerry.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:48:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Hmmm, if you're old enough to give your life for your country, you should be able to vote.

Following your logic, anyone over 65 should not be able to vote, because they are likely to follow the AARP party line.



If you would have read my post, you would have seen I said with the exception of Military.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:49:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
But I think we have to exclude minorities because everyone knows they vote democrat.


ETA: sarcasm



My wife is Asian, and she loves Bush.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:49:42 AM EST
I've said it before in another thread, but I'll say it again.

I don't really care what the voting age is, but let's at least have it make sense.
You can vote when you're 18.
You can serve in the military at 18.
You can drink when you're 21?

Hmm.
So you're an adult at 18, but irresponsible. Still, you're responsible enough to have a voice in the decision making process of our country?
We trust you with million dollar military equipment at 18, but not a beer bottle?

Pick an age is all I'm saying. One or the other, not both. You are either an adult or your not. It's that simple in my book. Make it 30 I don't care. Make it 10 I don't care. Just have it make sense.

(OK, I'm exagerating to make a point)
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:50:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By mtechgunman:
This is almost as ridiculous as the thread that said we should move all the democrats to california and then cut them off.

Waste of time that is for sure



So is your post
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 8:55:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By drache:
I've said it before in another thread, but I'll say it again.

I don't really care what the voting age is, but let's at least have it make sense.
You can vote when you're 18.
You can serve in the military at 18.
You can drink when you're 21?

Hmm.
So you're an adult at 18, but irresponsible. Still, you're responsible enough to have a voice in the decision making process of our country?
We trust you with million dollar military equipment at 18, but not a beer bottle?

Pick an age is all I'm saying. One or the other, not both. You are either an adult or your not. It's that simple in my book. Make it 30 I don't care. Make it 10 I don't care. Just have it make sense.

(OK, I'm exagerating to make a point)



I agree! I spent 10 years in Japan where you had to be 20 years old to be an adult. That went for alcohol or voting. Here in America, if you can't drink until 21, then make it the voting age as well. Exception being the MIL.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:00:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
I agree, it should also be limited to those who own real property.



I hope that's sarcasm. Or, are you saying that because I currently rent I'm unable to make an informed decision? And if so, what rhetoric are you basing that on?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:04:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By drache:
I've said it before in another thread, but I'll say it again.

I don't really care what the voting age is, but let's at least have it make sense.
You can vote when you're 18.
You can serve in the military at 18.
You can drink when you're 21?

Hmm.
So you're an adult at 18, but irresponsible. Still, you're responsible enough to have a voice in the decision making process of our country?
We trust you with million dollar military equipment at 18, but not a beer bottle?

Pick an age is all I'm saying. One or the other, not both. You are either an adult or your not. It's that simple in my book. Make it 30 I don't care. Make it 10 I don't care. Just have it make sense.

(OK, I'm exagerating to make a point)



I agree! I spent 10 years in Japan where you had to be 20 years old to be an adult. That went for alcohol or voting. Here in America, if you can't drink until 21, then make it the voting age as well. Exception being the MIL.




We are not Japan, and if your not in the military your a seond class citizen thats Bullshit. If your 18 you can be drafted and go to war for this country oh but you cant vote though
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:04:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By JSteensen:
Nope. I'm 19. I first wrote what I would consider the "ideal" platform, then compared Bush's and Kerry's platforms to it.

Then I looked at each canidates track record, and felt that Bush was by far one of the most moral presidents this country has had.

And don't feel too bad, most kids from 18-20 group wont be voting because most the ones around here think thier vote dont matter...and yes, most of them like kerry more, so no complaints from me.

John





I applaud you for you're maturity, unlike you're peers.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:05:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By TeuffelHunden1775:

Originally Posted By shotar:
I agree, it should also be limited to those who own real property.



I hope that's sarcasm. Or, are you saying that because I currently rent I'm unable to make an informed decision? And if so, what rhetoric are you basing that on?



That may have worked in the past, but not a very viable solution these days.
I mean take for instance real estate investors. They own far more property than they actually NEED for their own individual use. There by taking away property that others COULD own. Thus reducing the number of eligible voters by your standard. Theoretically then couldn't large corporations simply buy up ALL the property and eliminate voting all together?

I know many many people who do not own any property that are quite capable of making informed choices. I see no reason to deny their right to vote.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:06:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 9:09:25 AM EST by mac130]

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By drache:
I've said it before in another thread, but I'll say it again.

I don't really care what the voting age is, but let's at least have it make sense.
You can vote when you're 18.
You can serve in the military at 18.
You can drink when you're 21?

Hmm.
So you're an adult at 18, but irresponsible. Still, you're responsible enough to have a voice in the decision making process of our country?
We trust you with million dollar military equipment at 18, but not a beer bottle?

Pick an age is all I'm saying. One or the other, not both. You are either an adult or your not. It's that simple in my book. Make it 30 I don't care. Make it 10 I don't care. Just have it make sense.

(OK, I'm exagerating to make a point)



I agree! I spent 10 years in Japan where you had to be 20 years old to be an adult. That went for alcohol or voting. Here in America, if you can't drink until 21, then make it the voting age as well. Exception being the MIL.




We are not Japan, and if your not in the military your a seond class citizen thats Bullshit.

If your 18 you can be drafted and go to war for this country oh but you cant vote though



Then join up and give to America, before you screw it over with an uninformed vote.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:19:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz



I'm concerned because this particular age group seems more inclined to peer pressure, and most of this group favors Kerry.



You can't disenfranchise a whole class of people because they are less likely to agree with your choice for president. Frankly, that's about as fascist a concept as I've ever seen on here. Regardless of whether they serve, they are eligible through selective service for any draft that would come up, and they have the right to make their political voices heard because of that.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:32:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 9:36:27 AM EST by mac130]

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz



I'm concerned because this particular age group seems more inclined to peer pressure, and most of this group favors Kerry.



You can't disenfranchise a whole class of people because they are less likely to agree with your choice for president. Frankly, that's about as fascist a concept as I've ever seen on here. Regardless of whether they serve, they are eligible through selective service for any draft that would come up, and they have the right to make their political voices heard because of that.



Ok I serve, thanks for the "fascist" comment. Doesn't change my opinion about people under 21. My concern is that people in this age group will blindly vote for someone just because their friends do.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:37:41 AM EST
Every thing's age should be 18. Tobacco, alcohol, voting, handguns, everything.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:38:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz



I'm concerned because this particular age group seems more inclined to peer pressure, and most of this group favors Kerry.



You can't disenfranchise a whole class of people because they are less likely to agree with your choice for president. Frankly, that's about as fascist a concept as I've ever seen on here. Regardless of whether they serve, they are eligible through selective service for any draft that would come up, and they have the right to make their political voices heard because of that.



Ok I serve, thanks for the "fascist" comment. Doesn't change my opinion about people under 21. My concern is that people in this age group will blindly vote for someone just because their friends do.



Well, I can't really agree with that particular concern. The same could be said about any age group really. Age is no indication of intelligence.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:43:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By drache:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz



I'm concerned because this particular age group seems more inclined to peer pressure, and most of this group favors Kerry.



You can't disenfranchise a whole class of people because they are less likely to agree with your choice for president. Frankly, that's about as fascist a concept as I've ever seen on here. Regardless of whether they serve, they are eligible through selective service for any draft that would come up, and they have the right to make their political voices heard because of that.



Ok I serve, thanks for the "fascist" comment. Doesn't change my opinion about people under 21. My concern is that people in this age group will blindly vote for someone just because their friends do.



Well, I can't really agree with that particular concern. The same could be said about any age group really. Age is no indication of intelligence.



You're right, my 8 and 11 year old should be able to vote too. I stand corrected, they are very intelligent.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 9:48:41 AM EST
If you're on the dole, no vote.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:48:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By drache:
I've said it before in another thread, but I'll say it again.

I don't really care what the voting age is, but let's at least have it make sense.
You can vote when you're 18.
You can serve in the military at 18.
You can drink when you're 21?

Hmm.
So you're an adult at 18, but irresponsible. Still, you're responsible enough to have a voice in the decision making process of our country?
We trust you with million dollar military equipment at 18, but not a beer bottle?

Pick an age is all I'm saying. One or the other, not both. You are either an adult or your not. It's that simple in my book. Make it 30 I don't care. Make it 10 I don't care. Just have it make sense.

(OK, I'm exagerating to make a point)



I agree! I spent 10 years in Japan where you had to be 20 years old to be an adult. That went for alcohol or voting. Here in America, if you can't drink until 21, then make it the voting age as well. Exception being the MIL.




We are not Japan, and if your not in the military your a seond class citizen thats Bullshit.

If your 18 you can be drafted and go to war for this country oh but you cant vote though



Then join up and give to America, before you screw it over with an uninformed vote.



you sir are very dsconnected with the youth in America, 18-20 age group is more informed than you seem to be.

BTW you can give to America without being in the Military . You seem to forget this is a democracy and it is a right to vote not a privlege
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:50:33 AM EST
It should be lowered to 12, I think
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:51:22 AM EST
+1


Originally Posted By 20iner:
Every thing's age should be 18. Tobacco, alcohol, voting, handguns, everything.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:08:38 AM EST
You know, I have every respect for all those that served (in good faith....idjits like kerry don't count).

However, the attitude from some people who insist that if you don't serve, you're 2nd class, MAKES ME SICK!

What about those that can't serve for medical reasons? Are they 2nd class citizens?
How about those that don't serve because of religious reasons? Are they 2nd class?
And what about those that screwed around, made some bad choices, but are now doing what they feel is right by raising their kids and BEING there for them, rather than running off to the sandbox? Are they 2nd class?

I know people under 21 that fall into EACH of those categories, and they're FAR more educated than you appear to be.

And what about self-righteous assholes that join the military and then take an "I'm better than you" attitude -- what makes them so fucking special that they should be exempted from age limits?
What about the kids that fuck around, end up in the military because the judge gave 'em a choice between boot camp and jail -- are they automatically better equipped to vote at 18 than anyone else?



I say drop ALL the minimum ages to 18. Guns, alcohol, ALL of it. Darwin may take a few more, but we'd be better off in the long run.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:10:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
You know, I have every respect for all those that served (in good faith....idjits like kerry don't count).

However, the attitude from some people who insist that if you don't serve, you're 2nd class, MAKES ME SICK!

What about those that can't serve for medical reasons? Are they 2nd class citizens?
How about those that don't serve because of religious reasons? Are they 2nd class?
And what about those that screwed around, made some bad choices, but are now doing what they feel is right by raising their kids and BEING there for them, rather than running off to the sandbox? Are they 2nd class?

I know people under 21 that fall into EACH of those categories, and they're FAR more educated than you appear to be.

And what about self-righteous assholes that join the military and then take an "I'm better than you" attitude -- what makes them so fucking special that they should be exempted from age limits?
What about the kids that fuck around, end up in the military because the judge gave 'em a choice between boot camp and jail -- are they automatically better equipped to vote at 18 than anyone else?



I say drop ALL the minimum ages to 18. Guns, alcohol, ALL of it. Darwin may take a few more, but we'd be better off in the long run.




+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:16:42 AM EST
Actually, the 'uninformed voter' problem generally solves itself...

How?

THEY DON'T ACTUALLY VOTE!!!

AT most 60% of the population actually goes to the polls in any given election...

Most of the uninformed liberals STAY HOME...
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:28:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
You know, I have every respect for all those that served (in good faith....idjits like kerry don't count).

However, the attitude from some people who insist that if you don't serve, you're 2nd class, MAKES ME SICK!

What about those that can't serve for medical reasons? Are they 2nd class citizens?
How about those that don't serve because of religious reasons? Are they 2nd class?
And what about those that screwed around, made some bad choices, but are now doing what they feel is right by raising their kids and BEING there for them, rather than running off to the sandbox? Are they 2nd class?

I know people under 21 that fall into EACH of those categories, and they're FAR more educated than you appear to be.

And what about self-righteous assholes that join the military and then take an "I'm better than you" attitude -- what makes them so fucking special that they should be exempted from age limits?
What about the kids that fuck around, end up in the military because the judge gave 'em a choice between boot camp and jail -- are they automatically better equipped to vote at 18 than anyone else?



I say drop ALL the minimum ages to 18. Guns, alcohol, ALL of it. Darwin may take a few more, but we'd be better off in the long run.




+1



+1

In lieu of property owners, let's make it so that only those who pay income taxes can vote. Or here's another idea I am echoing from earlier in the thread, accept welfare or live off of the earnings of others as redistributed by the .gov? NO VOTE.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:53:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By Foxxz:
No, I can't agree with you there. Raising the voting age is irresponsible. Most of these "kids" don't vote anyway so why are you concerned? I have been voting since I was 18. Plus, creating exceptions for those in the armed forces seems slanted.

-Foxxz



I'm concerned because this particular age group seems more inclined to peer pressure, and most of this group favors Kerry.



You can't disenfranchise a whole class of people because they are less likely to agree with your choice for president. Frankly, that's about as fascist a concept as I've ever seen on here. Regardless of whether they serve, they are eligible through selective service for any draft that would come up, and they have the right to make their political voices heard because of that.



Ok I serve, thanks for the "fascist" comment. Doesn't change my opinion about people under 21. My concern is that people in this age group will blindly vote for someone just because their friends do.



I don't see where you, or anyone else, has the right to decide who gets to vote just based on why they decide who they are voting for. They can vote for whoever they want, for whatever reason they want. They can flip a coin to decide who they vote for, that their right. It's part of that whole "free country" thing. While we're taking away people's right to vote for whoever the hell they want to, why don't we just take away their freedom of speech too, because if we don't care who they are voting for, why would we care what they have to say?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 11:58:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
Hmmm, if you're old enough to give your life for your country, you should be able to vote.

Following your logic, anyone over 65 should not be able to vote, because they are likely to follow the AARP party line.



+1
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:02:51 PM EST
How about we not let old people vote; they did such a great job voting in Florida in 2000. They can't even follow a line to a candidate's name and they are expected to pick our president. I know you said there would be an exception for military personel but that doesn't mean I'm not still pissed. There are 18 year olds who vote for stupid reasons and 35 year olds who do.

<---A ticked off 19 year old soldier.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:06:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:
And what about self-righteous assholes that join the military and then take an "I'm better than you" attitude quote]

That's because I am better than you PV2 Pagan
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:07:57 PM EST
I absolutely agree with limiting the franchise to those that have proven their stake in the USA. The founding fathers were not stupid (arguably blind/willfully blind to the race and sex issues, but that's a different argument). Property ownership was assumed by many countries to be a prerequisite to enfranchisement until socialism and democracy came full steam into the 20th century. Military service as a prerequisite to voting and citizenship (Starship Troopers) is not a bad idea, although many people would find it abhorent.

There is a reason why most classical philosophers said democracy is the worst of all systems. Republics are not democracies. Representative government does not have to be democracy. The US Constitution outlines a republic, not a democracy.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 12:11:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
But I think we have to exclude minorities because everyone knows they vote democrat.



I agree!


ETA: sarcasm


Oh. Nevermind.



*humor*
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:23:17 PM EST
paganswede: Thanks for serving, hoping to join yalls after I get my degree.

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 1:26:06 PM EST
The good news is that the 18 to 23 year old demographic has the lowest percentage of actual votes cast.

Those that bitch the most, do the least about it.

But, I must say, that it seems the youth of America is actually turning more conservative. Maybe it is just to piss off their liberal parents!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:44:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
I agree, it should also be limited to those who own real property.



Thats incredibly stupid. Why should property owners be the only ones allowed to vote?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:45:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
hell, most college kids talk the talk, but they don't even know when election day is!



November second or third, cant remember which
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 3:47:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By drache:
I've said it before in another thread, but I'll say it again.

I don't really care what the voting age is, but let's at least have it make sense.
You can vote when you're 18.
You can serve in the military at 18.
You can drink when you're 21?

Hmm.
So you're an adult at 18, but irresponsible. Still, you're responsible enough to have a voice in the decision making process of our country?
We trust you with million dollar military equipment at 18, but not a beer bottle?

Pick an age is all I'm saying. One or the other, not both. You are either an adult or your not. It's that simple in my book. Make it 30 I don't care. Make it 10 I don't care. Just have it make sense.

(OK, I'm exagerating to make a point)



I agree! I spent 10 years in Japan where you had to be 20 years old to be an adult. That went for alcohol or voting. Here in America, if you can't drink until 21, then make it the voting age as well. Exception being the MIL.



Why would you except military? We should have no priviledged classes here in the US. Lower the drinking age, if you want, but don't fuck with our social equality.
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