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Posted: 8/16/2017 10:37:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:38:58 AM EST
...and then everyone slammed some Mt Dew and jammed out to Korn. 
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:39:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:52:55 AM EST
It looks like bike suspensions have really improved.  In the original video the rider is bouncing and shaking all over the place going down was seems to be a pretty smooth hill.  In the modern video they don't shake that much going over the jagged rocks.  
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:53:02 AM EST
Here's a vid we made back then. Man times have changed


got to ride with some really talented guys. 

Push tweekers
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:57:13 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
It looks like bike suspensions have really improved.  In the original video the rider is bouncing and shaking all over the place going down was seems to be a pretty smooth hill.  In the modern video they don't shake that much going over the jagged rocks.  
View Quote
Increased travel and damping, sure. Also, brakes that don't fade out, larger volume tires at lower pressure, drop seat posts, far better geometry, wider bars, and riders that know how to ride. Notice how these guys are pretty much static on the bike, arms straight out, hanging on for dear life with very little active input over the terrain.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:01:16 AM EST
Suspension is for wussy.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:02:51 AM EST
Wow. I didn't realize there was such a difference, those guys were slooowwww
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:03:05 AM EST
Night and Day difference in "DH" bikes then and now. I'd actually prefer late 90 early 2000s DH races to todays Red Bull style with the built in stunts. Keeps the courses on the trails, some tight twisty, some striaghts, some steeps and woops
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:05:33 AM EST
Brings back memories. I mountain biked from 94 to 2000. First video is classic. I never did like and use clip on pedals and in that video you can see why, made me laugh.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:09:47 AM EST
The technology in the bikes today is insane. Carbon fiber, magnesium and titanium are the norm. The forks and shocks are at least as sophisticated as motocross gear. Models from two years ago are completely obsolete. Tires are tubeless and super grippy. The riders are super skilled as well.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:16:18 AM EST
I used to ride downhill at the ski resorts in CO every summer, back then. Hard tail, 1.5" travel fork, v-brakes. It was a good thing I was in my early 20s and falling down didn't hurt too bad, lol. Now, I ride a cushy 4" travel full suspension with discs, and try not to fall down.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:25:31 AM EST
I can't imagine anything other than disk brakes
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:28:07 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stretch415:
I can't imagine anything other than disk brakes
View Quote
It didn't really matter, because your tires were never on the ground long enough to actually slow you down. LOL
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:29:35 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By way-out-west2:
Night and Day difference in "DH" bikes then and now. I'd actually prefer late 90 early 2000s DH races to todays Red Bull style with the built in stunts. Keeps the courses on the trails, some tight twisty, some striaghts, some steeps and woops
View Quote
Have you watched any of the modern races?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:30:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Versus 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikxQc_GPfF4
View Quote
Gwin is a beast, a natural phenom on a bike. Had never ridden a DH bike until 2008 and in less than a year he was racing in World Cups and got a 10th place finish at his first race. Unreal.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:37:17 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
It looks like bike suspensions have really improved.  In the original video the rider is bouncing and shaking all over the place going down was seems to be a pretty smooth hill.  In the modern video they don't shake that much going over the jagged rocks.  
View Quote
Geometry too. The industry finally realized that road biking geometry doesn't really work for mountain biking. DH bikes are way more "slack and low" these days.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:40:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By way-out-west2:
Night and Day difference in "DH" bikes then and now. I'd actually prefer late 90 early 2000s DH races to todays Red Bull style with the built in stunts. Keeps the courses on the trails, some tight twisty, some striaghts, some steeps and woops
View Quote
Amen brother. 
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:41:20 AM EST
I think it's mostly the progression of the riders. More so than equipment. Look at the 20" guys. Bikes haven't changed too much since the late 80s. But look how far dirt jumping and bmx have progressed. 
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:44:13 AM EST
Back in the early 90s, we didn't even have DH bikes, or dedicated DH racers. They were all XC type mountain bikes and riders. Hell, half the guys in that video hadn't even figured out to lower their seats yet.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:45:34 AM EST
.... goes and pulls his GT Team LTS out of the garage.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:47:02 AM EST
I've been riding a '99 Cannondale F3000 for years. I finally broke down and ordered a Cujo 2 last week.
Goodbye V-brakes and 60mm headshock, lol.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 11:56:53 AM EST
I mountain biked from 95-98. My bike was a pretty good bike for the day and back then (95), suspension bikes were rarely seen. I had a friend who got one with Rock Shoxs but it cost a small fortune and only the front had suspension. I still have my old bike and recently a co-worker asked if I wanted to go mountain biking with him so I took it to a bike shop to have it fixed up and and they told me to just get a new bike. Despite that, I had a few things fixed so it was ride-able again and then he shows up with a full suspension bike with disc brakes and expected me to be able to keep up with him.

Everything about todays bikes is infinitely better than 90's bikes. shifting is easier, braking is easier, steering is easier and suspensions suck up all the abuse. I couldn't believe how easy it was for him while I was being beat to death and hanging on for dear life. After that outing I hung up my bike and haven't gotten on it since.

Technology makes things easier and more exciting. I mean, take a 90's era bike down some of today's courses and the frame would snap. But I guess if people weren't willing to experience the rush in the 90's with shitty bikes, mountain biking wouldn't exist today.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:23:01 PM EST
I still have a 92 Specialized Stumpjumper in my garage, to which I added an aftermarket Marzochi fork in about 95. It had about 1" of travel, and was spindly and floppy as fuck.

I also have a 99 Specialized FSR, full suspension, that was state of the art almost 20 years ago.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:40:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigtard:
I used to ride downhill at the ski resorts in CO every summer, back then. Hard tail, 1.5" travel fork, v-brakes. It was a good thing I was in my early 20s and falling down didn't hurt too bad, lol. Now, I ride a cushy 4" travel full suspension with discs, and try not to fall down.
View Quote
Like an idiot, I went to an XC nationals race in Park City with my 70mm travel Headshox, 2.0" semi slick tires, and 130mm negative rise stem. Everything went well up hill until I had to go down the ski slopes, and not switchbacked either, straight the fuck down. They had these little speed bumps every 100 yards, so if you didn't slow down you'd be catapulted into the air. My brakes were dying so I had to stop the white knuckle experience and half way down and wait for my rims to cool. It f'n sucked. I also got a terrible placing.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 12:44:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sorionc:
I think it's mostly the progression of the riders. More so than equipment. Look at the 20" guys. Bikes haven't changed too much since the late 80s. But look how far dirt jumping and bmx have progressed. 
View Quote
Yeah those guys were wooden. Bunch of roadies trying to downhill, lol. At least we got video.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 3:49:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 3:57:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sorionc:
I think it's mostly the progression of the riders. More so than equipment. Look at the 20" guys. Bikes haven't changed too much since the late 80s. But look how far dirt jumping and bmx have progressed. 
View Quote
Tha fuck?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:04:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sorionc:
I think it's mostly the progression of the riders. More so than equipment. Look at the 20" guys. Bikes haven't changed too much since the late 80s. But look how far dirt jumping and bmx have progressed. 
View Quote
Wrong
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:05:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rustler:


Tha fuck?
View Quote
20" BMX bikes. Haven't changed much since the late 80s. Why is this hard?
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:10:06 PM EST
I still have my "Fat Chance Wicked" that I bought in 1989 or so. Handmade steel frame with no suspension. Everything except the frame has been replaced, most components multiple times. I have had lots of fun on that bike.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:14:32 PM EST
Pioneers
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:32:28 PM EST
Technology on modern bikes is incredible. Everything is stronger, lighter and faster. The suspensions travel more like a motorcycle rather than none or front suspension only, tubeless tires, larger wheels, and the brakes are hydraulic disc rather than cantilever on rims. I think anyone in the sport would agree, downhill racing 20-25 years ago took a lot more balls than now just because of the equipment they had to use.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:32:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2017 4:34:13 PM EST by freeride21a]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Skillshot:

20" BMX bikes. Haven't changed much since the late 80s. Why is this hard?
View Quote
Lighter, stronger materials, and different frame geometries. It was just subtle over a long time. Id say they chaged enough that there are tricks you can do on a modern bike that you would not be able to do on an 80's.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:45:09 PM EST
When you watch the vids with the full suspension bikes, and then watch the vids with the rigid bikes, it's easy to think "how could they crash on that simple descent", but it sure was easy to crash on those descents, on a rigid bike. Especially easy if you rode the same stuff with your motorcycle that had lots of suspension travel. It was easy to get on the bike and try to duplicate your MC riding. Nope, nope, nope, rigid was far different.

I started mountain biking in 1969, on a ten speed road bike, yeah is did not do very well, yeah it had drop bars, toe clips and down tube shifters. Got the first mountain bike in 89, it was a huge improvement, but still no suspension. Got hurt every ride on those bikes.

In the early 90's I actually used drop bars on a rigid mountain bike, on some serious mtn rides, yes you can descend with drops, but hands on the hoods.

Not a serious ride, but I rode Gettysburg, Little Round Top on a road bike, made it to the top, the brakes just screamed on the way down. That was a beater grade lugged steel bike, triple on the front, six speeds on the rear, with down tube shifters and 700c tires. See Gettysburg from the saddle, like Lee did.

Back in the 50's we did ride offroad, with our single speed paper-boy bikes, but we needed low gears and didn't have them and the rear coaster brake just locked up the wheel on dirt descents, so that was not mountain biking as we know it.

The downhill bikes of today are just soooo sweet! I'd love to have a good one to make a mid drive ebike. Big suspension travel is so excellent.

Thanks for posting those vids.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:52:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2017 4:57:25 PM EST by corwin1968]
Not that different from 1984.  Or even 1974.   

Gary Fisher rode Repack in 4:22 on a 1930's-40's beach cruiser.  Two miles with a 1300 foot drop in elevation.  Two miles in 4:22 on an ancient fat tire cruiser.  Do the math.     

Go to Amazon video and rent Klunkerz.  It's the fascinating history of the development of the modern mountain bike.  


Charley Kelley riding down Repack in the 70's

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:53:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2017 4:55:08 PM EST by ToledoXJ]
Missy the Missile


EDIT
Cost me $4000 to get my 97 Stumpjumper Pro hardtail into the 21- 22lb territory and now you can buy a bike close to that for $800
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 4:55:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2017 5:05:56 PM EST by sorionc]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
20" BMX bikes. Haven't changed much since the late 80s. Why is this hard?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Originally Posted By Rustler:


Tha fuck?
20" BMX bikes. Haven't changed much since the late 80s. Why is this hard?
While I have moved to mountain bikes I still have my late 90s or early 00s DK six pack. Some of the neighborhood kids have 20" bikes.  I'm not seeing a difference.  Geometry appears the same. I doubt materials have changed much if at all on a good entry level bmx bike. 


Eta: it is an interesting subject and I can't find anything online about the progression of the bmx bike. So far all I can find is Kevin Robinson saying "the biggest difference between now and the is the tricks." And a web site saying the biggest improvement was linear brakes. 
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:04:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MikeSSS:
When you watch the vids with the full suspension bikes, and then watch the vids with the rigid bikes, it's easy to think "how could they crash on that simple descent", but it sure was easy to crash on those descents, on a rigid bike. Especially easy if you rode the same stuff with your motorcycle that had lots of suspension travel. It was easy to get on the bike and try to duplicate your MC riding. Nope, nope, nope, rigid was far different.

I started mountain biking in 1969, on a ten speed road bike, yeah is did not do very well, yeah it had drop bars, toe clips and down tube shifters. Got the first mountain bike in 89, it was a huge improvement, but still no suspension. Got hurt every ride on those bikes.

In the early 90's I actually used drop bars on a rigid mountain bike, on some serious mtn rides, yes you can descend with drops, but hands on the hoods.

Not a serious ride, but I rode Gettysburg, Little Round Top on a road bike, made it to the top, the brakes just screamed on the way down. That was a beater grade lugged steel bike, triple on the front, six speeds on the rear, with down tube shifters and 700c tires. See Gettysburg from the saddle, like Lee did.

Back in the 50's we did ride offroad, with our single speed paper-boy bikes, but we needed low gears and didn't have them and the rear coaster brake just locked up the wheel on dirt descents, so that was not mountain biking as we know it.

The downhill bikes of today are just soooo sweet! I'd love to have a good one to make a mid drive ebike. Big suspension travel is so excellent.

Thanks for posting those vids.
View Quote
Ahem....
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:12:02 PM EST
The guys in the first video looked like they were drunk.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:14:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By magnum_99:
The technology in the bikes today is insane. Carbon fiber, magnesium and titanium are the norm. The forks and shocks are at least as sophisticated as motocross gear. Models from two years ago are completely obsolete. Tires are tubeless and super grippy. The riders are super skilled as well.
View Quote
+1

Night and day difference between today's bikes and those of even ten years ago.

Back in 1997, I asked someone about disc brakes on mountain bikes, and he said they hadn't gotten them to work well yet. Three years later, I saw he had a bike with discs and I reminded him about my question from three year's prior and his response was: "They finally got them to work right." That was 17 years ago.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:20:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rcoers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3cw9j0Nitk
View Quote
Sweet Mary of Magdalene, how is that even possible?

Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:20:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2017 5:24:27 PM EST by starstruck]
That Gwin fella, that's fucking beautiful to watch. He's out of control but in control, just insane ! Thanks for posting that. Totally in the zone.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:24:12 PM EST
I lived it.    From the coaster brake cruiser, to the heavy steel early MTB with steel wheels, aluminum hard tail Cannondale upgraded with elastomer front shocks and then to the 1996 Super Vee 3000 Cannondale.  It was eventually upgraded to oil filled Marzocchi fronts, Fox Alps 4 air in the rear, and Hayes large disc brake.  My rear axle was always the weak link.  I busted a few of them.

I have no idea how I survived.  I was a balls to the wall downhill hammerhead.  I broke my ribs and a toe.  Lots of poison ivy.  Battled a cactus.  Slight concussion once.  

I still have the bike, it is covered under a layer of dust.  My knees are fucked.  
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:27:00 PM EST
I'm with the guys above who suggested a lot of those guys' problems were their riding styles. I rode back then and did so much better than the guys who'd never rode BMX bikes and had road backgrounds. Their bike handling skills were shit.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:30:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stretch415:
I can't imagine anything other than disk brakes
View Quote
LOL, I rode The Kamakazi at Mammoth(CA) on a GT Zaskar hardtail with Tektros and a weak ass Judy fork in the late 90s(I was 15 or 16yo).

Speaking of the Zaskar, I just picked up a '97 Zaskar frame to build up into a "Restomod" XC rig to go with my short travel Joe Murray Voodoo Zobop('99). 2-6 mafia, bitches
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:40:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ToledoXJ:
Missy the Missile


EDIT
Cost me $4000 to get my 97 Stumpjumper Pro hardtail into the 21- 22lb territory and now you can buy a bike close to that for $800
View Quote
Hell, you could go to a department store and get a full suspension disc-braked fat tire bike light-years beyond anything in the OP's video.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:51:22 PM EST
LOL roadie goobers. One dude was running a TT disk or a wheel cover. This must have been triathletes from the 90's, I can't imagine off road riders being that bad. Seat posts all the way up, hanging out over the front wheel like a moran. It must have been beginner class.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:55:13 PM EST
still have 3 90's zaskars in the garage and an LTS team but now have embraced a Ibis Mojo SL and a Pivot Mach 4. The modern FS bikes don't weigh any more than the older FS bikes but the performance envelope is ridiculously expanded. You can ride a modern FS bike faster than an old sub 20 lbs hardtail on just about any trail now. Oh, and 29r's are for bragging.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 5:59:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rcoers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3cw9j0Nitk
View Quote
That's unreal. Wow.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 6:10:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2017 6:11:28 PM EST by Green_Canoe]
Me on my 6 month old GT in 1988:



I converted it into a single speed and still ride it.
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