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Posted: 11/29/2014 11:22:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:22:33 AM EDT by Lancelot]
I have someone who wants to trade his custom AR for a car I'm trying to getting rid of. I dont own an AR so I'm not as familiar with the platform as others, but god knows I want one and have for some time. He says his friend builds them and he has purchased a few from him over the years with no problems. And while he is confident enough to offer to let me test shoot it, I'm a skeptic by nature so I figured I would get some opinions first.

The information I have so far is as follows: custom built Wylde upper w/ 16" chrome moly lined barrel 1/9 twist, A2 flash suppressor, complete New Freedom polymer lower w/ adj stock, dust cover and forward assist.

I read a few reviews and found some complete New Freedom polymer lowers w/ stock new for around $120 and I'm sure I can find prices for an A2 flash suppressor, but, what questions could I ask, or things I could look for to determine the value and quality of the upper?

Does anyone have a check list of sorts for used guns?
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:32:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2014 10:34:13 PM EDT by TCBA_Joe]
Junk it sounds like. The A2 flash suppressor is essentially a $2 throw-away part.

Anything built on a polymer lower I'd write off completely. They have a historically bad track record and with $50 stripped lowers available there's no excuse to buy a polymer lower. As for the bbl, I'm gonna assume it's junk based on it being on a polymer lower. What kind of bolt carrier group?

There's a range of "custom" guns, especially AR15s, out there. Custom is everything from a bottom barrel POS wrenched together in a basement (like this one sounds) to properly built and tested MSTN guns.

With the plethora of cheap new ARs available ($600) I can't imagine you'd be getting enough of a deal to make this worth it.

ETA: He wants to trade his polymer franken-gun for a CAR? Is it a hot-wheels? Really? He's trying to bend you over and put it in dry while treating you like an idiot.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:32:55 PM EDT
The only polymer lower I'd consider would be an old Cav Arms.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:35:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The only polymer lower I'd consider would be an old Cav Arms.
View Quote

Agree, to an extent. But even that adds little value over a regular poly lower, and still not as much as any aluminum lower.

(Owns 2, and wishes he didn't). I like my Pigeon gray for sentimental reasons, but I wish I hadn't bought the FDE one.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:35:56 PM EDT
You can put together a quality AR15 for under $500 right now from Palmetto State Armory. The rifle your buddy has is not "custom" in the least, just some cheap parts cranked together.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:45:31 PM EDT
sounds about like a $450 gun...

"Custom" means some guy put it together in his garage with parts from various sources. Not always bad, all of mine are "custom", but usually not worth a lot. I built my first AR at the height of the 2008 panic and spent close to $1200 for a gun that I can build for $500 today.

This may not be what you want to hear, but I would pass on the deal (unless your car is worth less than $400), read some of the build it yourself in the forum, ask questions, maybe check the hometown portion of the forum and see if there is someone local to you that would be willing to help you assemble your first rifle. Building it yourself is rewarding and it gives you an understanding of how the platform works.

Or you could save a little money up and get a Smith & Wesson, or Ruger for whatever low price they go for these days.

and welcome to the biggest time waster in the world
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:53:09 PM EDT
I wouldn't even price it at $450. Maybe $350 or even a little less if you really want it.

Polymer lowers, 16" 1:9 twist CMV barrel (I'd be surprised if the barrel is CL), A2 flash suppressor, and "custom build" are usually all hallmarks (when combined) of a gun that was built with bottom of the barrel parts.

If it were me in your shoes, it'd be worth nothing.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 10:53:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/28/2014 10:54:25 PM EDT by PursuitSS]
Custom?

PLASTIC lower?

I'd ask for an EXACT breakdown on the build list. Brand and model of EACH part.

My favorite AR is at $4,200.00 and I can list EVERY part in it.

Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:07:45 PM EDT
100% pass. /thread
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:20:23 PM EDT
Yup sounds like junk to me, pass OP
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:26:40 PM EDT
Most "custom" builds go in one of three directions.

First you have the "how cheap can I build an AR" gun. The parts are cheap and the labor was cheaper.

Next you have the "wavering interest" gun. Starts out with great parts, but the owner gets impatient or loses interest and finishes it with cheap parts.

Lastly you have the "it would have been cheaper to buy a Barrett" gun. I think most people would be slow to sell this type of gun, because they don't want to find out how much money they are going to lose.

The one you are being offered most likely falls into the first category. Unless the car you are thinking of trading for it is a complete heap worth less than $250, I would RUN in the other direction.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:34:57 PM EDT
The car you have needs to be on fire before you trade for the rifle you described in that post.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:36:40 PM EDT
I agree with everyone else's assessment and would value that rifle you listed under $400. What car are you trading and what's the value of it? Check out the Equipment Exchange (Orange Button) at the top and maybe post a WTT (want to trade ad) for the car there. You may come up on a better deal honestly.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:37:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cycline3:
100% pass. /thread
View Quote

Link Posted: 11/28/2014 11:50:13 PM EDT
Yea, i just bought a complete upper and lower from psa for 400 even. Cant beat it for what you're getting and im most certain Its better than the polymer gun hes offering.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 12:32:25 AM EDT
The AR is worth about $300 how much is the car worth? Polymer lowers are junk.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 12:34:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 12:35:18 AM EDT by tecstar1]
And then you find out is was a Vltor Mur upper, BCM BCG, had a URX 3.1 rail with sling, bipod, and surefire scout on it and said damn, I jumped to conclusion without knowing what all the parts were. Come on guys, lets get some facts.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 12:36:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tecstar1:
And then you find out is was a Vltor Mur upper, BCM BCG, had a URX 3.1 rail with sling, bipod, and surefire scout on it and said damn, I jumped to conclusion without knowing what all the parts were. Come on guys, lets get some facts.
View Quote

Using a polymer lower, a brand-less barrel, and an A2 as a selling point hardly points to someone putting together a high quality upper.

Nothing wrong with an A2, but it's hardly a selling point.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 12:40:04 AM EDT
"custom" ar's are almost always total fucking junk put together for dirt cheap using the cheapest shit parts available by some retard who has no idea what he is doing.

WALK AWAY!
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 12:58:45 AM EDT
14ers gonna 14.

DÉF. Not a high end rifle. What barrel?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 1:18:40 AM EDT
Not sure of anything yet really as far as the brand of any upper parts or barrel. I asked for a build list but havent received a reply yet so I will update as soon as I do.

My car is listed for $800 so as soon as I saw the polymer lower I knew I wouldnt be accepting an even trade but maybe gun+cash. Like I said before, I dont know a ton when it comes to all the quality parts manufacturers, but i do know enough to bet that a cheap lower most usually sits under a cheap upper but I wanna be sure so I came here.

I have another guy offering an Anderson Manufacturing msr but even that isnt worth an even trade.

I do appreciate all the feedback.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 1:40:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mactree13:
Not sure of anything yet really as far as the brand of any upper parts or barrel. I asked for a build list but havent received a reply yet so I will update as soon as I do.

My car is listed for $800 so as soon as I saw the polymer lower I knew I wouldnt be accepting an even trade but maybe gun+cash. Like I said before, I dont know a ton when it comes to all the quality parts manufacturers, but i do know enough to bet that a cheap lower most usually sits under a cheap upper but I wanna be sure so I came here.

I have another guy offering an Anderson Manufacturing msr but even that isnt worth an even trade.

I do appreciate all the feedback.
View Quote



Well, about a dozen folks here have told you to avoid the polymer lower, so why would you even consider trading for it?


What kind of car?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 4:08:33 AM EDT
He should sell his guns to get the cash for you. Both of these trades sound bad. You can buy, as pointed out, brand new AR15s any day of the week for $500-600 from site sponsors who will stand behind the rifle.

You can even buy a brand new Colt AR15 at Walmart for about the price of the car you're selling.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 7:26:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 7:28:46 AM EDT by wagonwheel1]
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
I wouldn't even price it at $450. Maybe $350 or even a little less if you really want it.

Polymer lowers, 16" 1:9 twist CMV barrel (I'd be surprised if the barrel is CL), A2 flash suppressor, and "custom build" are usually all hallmarks (when combined) of a gun that was built with bottom of the barrel parts.

If it were me in your shoes, it'd be worth nothing.
View Quote



Everyone on this forum has a "custom" AR. With theirs obviously being the best.

Shooting 55's and proper maintenance these can be excellent barrels. Arguably better than chrome lined for accuracy.
The polymer is a non-starter for me though.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 7:39:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 7:48:24 AM EDT by RJeff21]
Originally Posted By wagonwheel1:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
I wouldn't even price it at $450. Maybe $350 or even a little less if you really want it.

Polymer lowers, 16" 1:9 twist CMV barrel (I'd be surprised if the barrel is CL), A2 flash suppressor, and "custom build" are usually all hallmarks (when combined) of a gun that was built with bottom of the barrel parts.

If it were me in your shoes, it'd be worth nothing.
View Quote



Everyone on this forum has a "custom" AR. With theirs obviously being the best.

Shooting 55's and proper maintenance these can be excellent barrels. Arguably better than chrome lined for accuracy.
The polymer is a non-starter for me though.
View Quote


You can tell, just by those specs that you highlighted, that it can be an excellent barrel and more accurate than a CL one? Was it one of those PTAC barrels that were 16" and 1:9 that looked like a sewer? You don't know.

The point I was making is, the majority of those $89 or $99 barrels you see on sale, they are almost all 16" 1:9 CMV barrels. Also, on all these junk cheap uppers and rifles you see floating around for sale by companies that popped up out of the woodwork after the last scare, what particular features do you see?

16" 1:9 barrels, standard parts, and sometimes poly lowers. The majority of the parts are usually off brand or no name as well.

Now, are all 16" 1:9 CMV barrels bad or inaccurate? Nope. You are also correct that an unlined barrel can be more accurate than a CL one. The key is quality. Something not usually found in an $89 no name barrel.

There's a thing lots of people use called "totality of the circumstances." In this case, the "totality of the circumstances", (poly lower, standard parts, and a description of a commonly available no name cheap barrel setup being touted as the selling points of this rifle) would lead most reasonable people to believe this thing doesn't have a quality barrel or part in it.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 8:00:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By wagonwheel1:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
I wouldn't even price it at $450. Maybe $350 or even a little less if you really want it.

Polymer lowers, 16" 1:9 twist CMV barrel (I'd be surprised if the barrel is CL), A2 flash suppressor, and "custom build" are usually all hallmarks (when combined) of a gun that was built with bottom of the barrel parts.

If it were me in your shoes, it'd be worth nothing.
View Quote



Everyone on this forum has a "custom" AR. With theirs obviously being the best.

Shooting 55's and proper maintenance these can be excellent barrels. Arguably better than chrome lined for accuracy.
The polymer is a non-starter for me though.
View Quote


You can tell, just by those specs that you highlighted, that it can be an excellent barrel and more accurate than a CL one? Was it one of those PTAC barrels that were 16" and 1:9 that looked like a sewer? You don't know.

The point I was making is, the majority of those $89 or $99 barrels you see on sale, they are almost all 16" 1:9 CMV barrels. Also, on all these junk cheap uppers and rifles you see floating around for sale by companies that popped up out of the woodwork after the last scare, what particular features do you see?

16" 1:9 barrels, standard parts, and sometimes poly lowers. The majority of the parts are usually off brand or no name as well.

Now, are all 16" 1:9 CMV barrels bad or inaccurate? Nope. You are also correct that an unlined barrel can be more accurate than a CL one. The key is quality. Something not usually found in an $89 no name barrel.

There's a thing lots of people use called "totality of the circumstances." In this case, the "totality of the circumstances", (poly lower, standard parts, and a description of a commonly available no name cheap barrel setup being touted as the selling points of this rifle) would lead most reasonable people to believe this thing doesn't have a quality barrel or part in it.
View Quote



I guess we will have to agree that without knowing exactly what the OP is up against it's purely speculation on our part.

An educated guess to the value of the rifle, yes because of the whole of the parts, but 1x9 CMV does not necessarily make for an inferior barrel.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 8:52:54 AM EDT
Obviously i looked at the gun first, made my own initial assessment as to what my options were, and then considering my lack of knowledge on this one particular platform, decided to do my due diligence which included, but wasnt limited to coming here.

I'm aware that an entry level AR is relatively inexpensive right now, but I just bought two pistols in as many months and my wife will crush my nuts if i walk in the door with another firearm however somehow I talked long enough about it and convinced her (well, maybe more likely that she gave up on the conversation) that trading my old car is different than buying one soooo.... here I am trying to trade a car for a gun.

All of this is kind of silly though because the only back story relevant to the question at hand, how to go about vetting and assessing the quality and value of a used "custom" AR, is of the upper, which I havent received info on yet so much of the speculation as to what it is, what i should do with it, or how i should proceed is unnecessary.

I think the consensus has clearly been established already that polymer lowers are less than ideal. From here out, Im only interested in comments related to dollar value, quality, and how if possible, to verify any what Im looking at is whats on the parts list.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 9:17:09 AM EDT
id pass on anything custom...


factory built is where i stay around..

anytime i here custom i always think. tapco and polymers.

most of my rifle are custom builds.

but i use noveske, vltor, bcm, wilsons combat. my cutome rifles cost me more than 2k in parts. but i wouldnt let these bad boys go.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 9:23:43 AM EDT
Pictures of rifle?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 9:28:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KimberZ71:
Pictures of rifle?
View Quote




hella custom sniper assault rifle
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 9:33:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DocBach:
Originally Posted By KimberZ71:
Pictures of rifle?
View Quote


http://misostudios.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/2010-08-09-ARoVPD-1.jpg

hella custom sniper assault rifle
View Quote


Well If op doesn't trade I will...just that purple flag alone
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 9:34:23 AM EDT
Picture is here: I asked for a few more

Link Posted: 11/29/2014 9:47:13 AM EDT
Maybe I missed it, but what are the specs on the car?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:02:41 AM EDT
How do I post a pic w/o a url?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:21:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mactree13:
Obviously i looked at the gun first, made my own initial assessment as to what my options were, and then considering my lack of knowledge on this one particular platform, decided to do my due diligence which included, but wasnt limited to coming here.

I'm aware that an entry level AR is relatively inexpensive right now, but I just bought two pistols in as many months and my wife will crush my nuts if i walk in the door with another firearm however somehow I talked long enough about it and convinced her (well, maybe more likely that she gave up on the conversation) that trading my old car is different than buying one soooo.... here I am trying to trade a car for a gun.

All of this is kind of silly though because the only back story relevant to the question at hand, how to go about vetting and assessing the quality and value of a used "custom" AR, is of the upper, which I havent received info on yet so much of the speculation as to what it is, what i should do with it, or how i should proceed is unnecessary.

I think the consensus has clearly been established already that polymer lowers are less than ideal. From here out, Im only interested in comments related to dollar value, quality, and how if possible, to verify any what Im looking at is whats on the parts list.
View Quote


The best way to get accurate answers to the part I highlighted in red would be to post the Parts List provided to you as well as some photos of the rifle. A lot of people here can pick out what is what and let you know if there's any bullshit going on.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:22:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mactree13:
How do I post a pic w/o a url?
View Quote

Photobucket. Upload pic to photobucket then copy & paste link.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:43:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Custom?

PLASTIC lower?

I'd ask for an EXACT breakdown on the build list. Brand and model of EACH part.

My favorite AR is at $4,200.00 and I can list EVERY part in it.

View Quote


I keep an Excel file of all my builds so I can keep track of the parts and prices paid for each rifle.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 10:49:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By OIF_Vet08-09:

I keep an Excel file of all my builds so I can keep track of the parts and prices paid for each rifle.
View Quote


I don't -- if my wife found it, she'd cut my nuts off.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:09:47 AM EDT
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/mactree13/media/johnbinkleAR_zps385a0f11.jpeg.html?filters[user]=142037652&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:16:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:20:14 AM EDT by TCBA_Joe]
Originally Posted By Mactree13:
http://s1378.photobucket.com/user/mactree13/media/johnbinkleAR_zps385a0f11.jpeg.html?filters[user]=142037652&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0
View Quote

Under the text input box there are several icon buttons.

The 4th from the right is a little photo of a mountain.

Copy the "direct" link generated on the right under "Share Links" on photobucket.

Click the little mountain, enter the direct link URL into the box that pops up.



There's nothing about that rifle I'd pay more than $300. It's incredibly generic. Plastic furniture, generic upper, generic barrel, polymer lower, unknown round count. I'm gonna guess generic lower parts, carbine buffer, and semi-carrier.

If you want the rifle get the rifle, but understand this thing is probably not worth the tires on the car, much less the scrap price of the car. You'd be better selling the car and buying a cheap Palmetto or Troy (Tech forums) or spending a little more on a Colt 6920 or a Sig M400.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:24:57 AM EDT
Go buy an M&P Sport OP.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:29:01 AM EDT
Looks like a gun that should have been under $600 when new.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:29:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:31:18 AM EDT by anesvick]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mactree13:
Not sure of anything yet really as far as the brand of any upper parts or barrel. I asked for a build list but havent received a reply yet so I will update as soon as I do.

My car is listed for $800 so as soon as I saw the polymer lower I knew I wouldnt be accepting an even trade but maybe gun+cash. Like I said before, I dont know a ton when it comes to all the quality parts manufacturers, but i do know enough to bet that a cheap lower most usually sits under a cheap upper but I wanna be sure so I came here.

I have another guy offering an Anderson Manufacturing msr but even that isnt worth an even trade.

I do appreciate all the feedback.
View Quote

Just get cash, the 'custom' build in your OP is a collection of junk parts, and that MSR looks like a bag of smashed assholes. A 16" M4 barreled rifle with no front sight post, really?

AR's are always on the bottom of my list for trades unless it's an original complete build from a legit manufacturer. It's just too easy to throw a bunch of parts together and make your own.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:30:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/29/2014 11:32:07 AM EDT by GANDYDANCER]
How much do you want for the car ????


Cheap, hopefully.



real cheap. $399. cheap.




gd


Oh , I see $800. He's better throw something else on the pile for a trade.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:31:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:34:35 AM EDT
Thats a $400 gun.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:34:36 AM EDT
Chrome molly is a steel type, so my guess is the barrel is a chrome molly vanadium steel barrel with no chrome lining. It is generally a more accurate barrel because it's rifling is even. Chrome lining is a thin plating done which adds hardness to the rifling adding loner lief to the lands and groves. It detracts from accuracy minutely, but it does better with not rusting as well.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:34:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:35:20 AM EDT
So called "custom" AR's are just like custom cars, the owner/builder has far more in them, thinks they're worth more than they actually are and they ask waaaayyyyy too much for them.

There are exceptions to this rule, but are few and far between. Certain *true* custom builders can command higher prices but most guys out there do not own these rifles.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 11:35:41 AM EDT
Sounds like an awesome deal you should not pass up.
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