Hey guys,
   I can't get this idea out of my head. Whats the deal with this AW Ban? Lets take a look at this ban. Where can I get some information on how many "Assult Weapons's" are used in crimes per year? What differnce does a Collapsing stock that moves a grand total of 3 inches  make? Or a bayonet lug? Has there ever, and I mean EVER been a crime commited that involved a bayonet, mounted on the end on an AR?  We, the law abiding citizens are getting screwed, hard! As I am sure many of you must know.  Isn't there someway/somehow we can protest it, or appeal it, since its a law, anything? Or, Does someone need to get charged first, and then it can get appealed? Why hasn't anyone done this or organized something to the affect? We can't all just sit back and think to ourselves. We need to do something! How is the BATF going to stop lets say 20,000 people if they all built pre ban Config guns, on postban lowers? I am quite young, and pretty much already fed up with the DemoRats that have infringed our right to bear arms.[:(!] I can't imangine what its going to be like in 15 years if nothing is done. I'll be lucky if I can own a Straw and Napkins, and don't forget those Hi-Cap Napkin dispensers! In fear that I have the tools allowing me to build a pre-ban spit wad shooter! [V] There has to be something we can do! Besides Joining the NRA, What can we do? There HAS to be something. I am fed up with this stupid ban! [-!-]

[pissed]

-Jared

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the bathroom puking! [puke]

This law is "supposed" to sunset in 2004.  

Wanna bet it will?

We will find out about Bush then.

ALL GUN LAWS AS APPLIED TO A NON-LAWBREAKER ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.  Period.  What do I do?  I vote, write all I can, talk to who will listen etc.  I agree with you, Joker, there has to be more.  The S will never hit the fan, they will boil the water slowly and nobody will notice, unless something is done.  But what, when, how, and led by whom?  Well, I ain't volunteering, but you never know what a man will do when a situation "hits home", do you?  Continue to vote, write and talk.  Never back down.  And be prepared to defend what is RIGHT and JUST and makes sense.  Against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.  Rant off.....for now.

I'd about bet my nuts that it wont. It would be political suicide to whoever let it. Just think of the OUTRAGE in the media!!! [-!-]

389, yes, I'll take that bet.  The AW ban will be renewed and there will be hoards of Repubbies that will vote to continue with it.

Here's why: picture a headline like this one,

REPUBLICANS WANT TO PUT ASSAULT WEAPONS IN THE HANDS OF CHILDREN!!

You know it will be spun like that.  The talking heads will babble so firecly that every soccer mom will be convinced that the AW ban has saved millions of "children's" lives.  

Total bunk of course but let's not undersetimate the stupidity of the American public.

BTW, what shall we bet? [;)]

CMOS

I bet that the ban will sunset. Look at the date that the ban is due to sunset on. It is right before the presidential election. The Democrats will let the ban sunset so that a couple of weeks before the election they can secure the moderate and swing votes by painting Bush as an extremist. They will claim that he put dangerous military weapons back into the hands of the public and therefore endangered us all. They tried to do this election, and it nearly worked, so you can bet that they will do it in the next election, only this time they can claim that they will do something about it.

Kyle

"BTW, what shall we bet?"

Oh, I don't know.  I absolutely don't need another set of nuts as Death_by_AR15 proposes above...

[:P]

Who is your Congressmanwoman?

bullshit, the ban WILL sunset. it will be completly replaced with a new bill. i can jsut see it now. a bunch of ***holes twisting the stats from the california laws and saying "gun legeslation in califorina has drastically ( yeah right) reduced crime and now we will follow their lead." this will happen in 2004. this will also be the year the streets run red with blood as true americians defend the constitution. i guess i better acomplish all my life goals in the next 3 years

BTT!

Joker:
You have to understand, all of the weapon laws arn't about saftey, crime or saving lifes. They are about control.
Liberals want to control every facet of your life through government. They must do it for your own good. You are to stupid to take care of yourself or your family, and quite frankly you scare them with your strange views about self reliance and being responsible for your own actions. I mean, after all you might hold them responsible for their actions or question the roll of government in your life. One would think that you would realize your place in this world, after all America became the only superpower it the world through luck and by the ruthless opression of the other more worthy peoples of this world. HOW DARE YOU!!
REPORT AT ONCE TO THE NEAREST DNC OFFICE FOR REPROGRAMING.

GOOD ONE!

Longrange, you hit the F***ing nail on the F***ing head...too bad some other heads weren't between the hammer and the nail...but then again your arm would get tired.

Oldschool:
Although I'm getting long in the tooth, the guys I work with still come and get me for the hammer work. I usually use a 16 lb sledge.
            [smash]

I already heard the socialist democRats complaining about the bill.  It's going to get worse, but they might sound ultra-left socialist this time.

Question is What are [b]YOU[/b] doing about it?

Garmentless,
  Thats why I made this post, To find out what I CAN DO! Any suggestions?!

-Jared

FYI : http://www.cacdefensefund.org/

Californians Against Corruption Defense Fund

Russ Howard is the person who got roberti and roos to lose their Calif State Assembly seats, and needs your support.

FYI: http://www.gunowners.com/howard.htm

"Russ Howard, a former NRA director, was one of the principal architects of ending the political career of rabidly anti-gun State Senator David Roberti of California. Howard now faces an $808,000 fine.

Roberti and Assemblyman Mike Roos were the chief sponsors of the legislation that banned semi-automatic firearms."


FYI : http://www.libertydefense.com/
FYI : http://www.libertydefense.com/donation.html


"The efforts of a pro-Second Amendment                    organization to file litigation against 31 cities "that have been trying since 1998 to bankrupt the gun industry" are, a year after the group's formation, losing momentum and financial wherewithal."

^
Money is Cheaper than Blood.
Don't Expect the NRA to do It All.
Get into the Fight.
^

Also Please Read Allege handgun control master plan for TOTAL Citizen Dis-Armament/gun confiscation:

www.RKBA.org/antis/hci-master
www.DigitalAngel.net/da_patent/index.htm

Never Again, Never Forget

Seek the Truth
Liberate Your Mind

FIXED BAYONETS

VX

I look forward to much stricter gun control laws. It will seperate the hobbyists from the Constitutionalists.

Move to DC.

VX
RE:........faces $808,000 fine.

Please expound.

How about treason?

FYI : FYI : http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/starticles/2001/jan/aras012601.htm

So Much for Trial by Jury
                         ( How California Public Servants Serve Tyranny)
                    by Angel Shamaya Founder/Director KeepAndBearAmrs.com-
                         Published: 01.23.00 (republshed with permission)


   We reported and provided great detail about how a California government agency is trying to
   destroy one of KeepAndBearArms.com's Chief Advisors, former NRA Board Member, Russ
   Howard. Larry Pratt of Gun Owners of America also covered this story recently. Russ Howard
   and Californians Against Corruption did, after all, take California's Roberti and Roos (of
   "Assault Weapons Ban" fame) out of their political careers. Those anti-Constitution
   self-serving public servants are gone from the political scene, but the backlash against Mr.
   Howard and Mr. Cicero is still a current issue.

   On Friday, January 19, 2001, Judge John R. Lewis of the Sacramento Superior Court granted
   the "Fair" Political Practices Commission's motion for summary judgment in the case of FPPC v
   Californians Against Corruption, Russ Howard, and Steve Cicero, thus affirming the FPPC's fine
   and converting it into a collectible civil judgment. A motion for summary judgment means that
   judgment is granted without a trial.

   Thus, Russ Howard and Steve Cicero have now been fined $808,000 without a trial by jury or
   even a trial by a judge. No presumption of innocence. No right to an attorney.

   Article III of the U.S. Constitution states:

   "The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury..."

   Amendments 6 and 7 of the Bill of Rights also cover the issue of trial by jury, as well.

   But Judge Lewis ignored all of the constitutional arguments presented by the defense,
   including arguments related to due process, the right to jury trial, the right to have an
   attorney provided if the defendant cannot afford one, the First Amendment, the right to
   privacy in both the California and Federal Constitutions, the 8th Amendment prohibition on
   excessive fines and cruel and unusual punishment, etc., ad nauseam.

   Judge Lewis considered the argument that the FPPC exceeded jurisdiction because the
   officers conducting the proceedings were not properly appointed as required under the
   Political Reform Act. This argument was successfully used by former Assemblyman Paul
   Horcher to overturn an FPPC fine under nearly identical circumstances.

   How do you like that?

   Judge Lewis conceded that officers were not properly appointed but said that the hearings
   were properly conducted nonetheless. In effect, under the Judge's reasoning, any citizen
   could have walked in off the street and conducted the hearings.

   Judge Lewis' decision, along with Judge Connelly's earlier decisions in the case, will be
   appealed.

   The CAC Defense Fund has received about $2,500 for the CAC Defense Fund, mostly through
   postal mail. They've invested nearly $40,000 on the defense -- half of it out of Russ Howard's
   own pocket.

   Legal Defense donations can be sent to: CAC Defense Fund 1500 Voorhees Ave. Manhattan
   Beach, CA 90266.Or you can use Pay Pals .

   Larry Pratt's writeup on the assault against Russ Howard includes a tax-deductible internet
   donation option.

^
www.RK

Although I don't always agree with Imbroglio, I do find his sarcasm funny sometimes.  I think he has nailed this one, though.  The pure hobbyist has no real vested interest in undoing what has been done, where the Consitutionalist does!  Those who realize what our forefathers fought for, and see where we are now, know that no amount of writing to our Congressmen will overturn our current state.  Our "leaders" are corrupt, and will continue to be so.  Change will only come when the majority realizes government has become abusive (not likely), or when the people who recognize the abuse decide to take matters into their own hands.  They haven't done so yet, so obviously they need more pushing.

I would suggest that all Constitutionalists read the various writings of the Framers of the Constitution and then read [i]Unintended Consequences[/i] if you haven't already.  

FYI : http://www.gunowners.com/howard.htm

Your Tax-Deductible Contribution Needed:
                       Campaign Laws Aim to Stifle Pro-Gun Activist

                                     Click here to contribute online

by Larry Pratt

Russ Howard, a former NRA director, was one of the principal architects of ending the political career of rabidly anti-gun State
Senator David Roberti of California. Howard now faces an $808,000 fine.

Roberti and Assemblyman Mike Roos were the chief sponsors of the legislation that banned semi-automatic firearms. They
pushed it in the name of fighting crime, even though then Attorney General Van de Kamp had found that the targeted weapons
were involved in less than one percent of the state's homicides.

Howard was a volunteer with Citizens Against Corruption (CAC) in 1990 when the group spearheaded a campaign against Roos.
While Roos was re-elected, his amazingly small margin prompted his resignation a few months later after CAC announced
preparations for a recall campaign.

CAC employed a re-mail technique to leverage the relatively scarce grassroots dollars they had raised to use against Roos. They
made voter names in Roos' district available to volunteers, with a letter explaining why Roos should be voted out of office. The
volunteers mailed the letters in their own envelopes into Roos' district.

CAC volunteers bore all the expenses themselves. These donations were independent expenditures that were way less than
what would be required to be reported to the state's speech police, the Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC). Later the
Commission would include non-reporting of unknowable independent volunteer expenses as part of the unconstitutionally
draconian fine (the Eighth Amendment bars excessive fines).

In 1992, Howard became executive director of Citizens Against Corruption. Because redistricting had unfavorably shifted David
Roberti's old Hollywood district, he ran that year in a special election for a Senate seat that was vacated when one of his cronies
went to prison for extortion. It was a safe Democratic district, but the hope was to force him to spend enough in the primary to
wound him. CAC's efforts indeed resulted in Roberti spending $2,500,000 on the primary and the runoff.

Roberti raised so much money that other campaigns around the state were harmed because money they might have raised went
to Roberti instead. Partly because Democrats worried that he might do it again, he later had to step down as President of the
Senate.

Immediately after Roberti limped into the runoff primary victory circle, CAC began planning a recall campaign on him. The April
1994 legislative recall was the first to qualify for the ballot since 1914. Roberti had about maxed out his political credit card with
Democrat donors. And what made them even less inclined to extend him more political financing was the fact that he was to be
term-limited out at the end of 1994.

Moreover, Roberti had announced his candidacy for the State Treasurer's office. That primary was scheduled for June 1994, just
a few weeks after the recall. This jacked his need for campaign funds much higher, even while his credit limit with
fellow-Democrats was being exhausted.

Roberti survived the recall, but only by a small margin. The primary election for Treasurer was just a few weeks away, and
Roberti lost. He blamed the "gun lobby" for ending his career by exhausting his

Buy....buy all you can.  And bury it, hide it, stockpile it, so on and so forth.  Then sit and wait.  We are beyond just sending letters to reps.

Buy....buy all you can.  And bury it, hide it, stockpile it, so on and so forth.  Then sit and wait.  We are beyond just sending letters to reps.

FYI : http://www.gunowners.com/howard.htm

Your Tax-Deductible Contribution Needed:
                       Campaign Laws Aim to Stifle Pro-Gun Activist

                                     Click here to contribute online

by Larry Pratt

Russ Howard, a former NRA director, was one of the principal architects of ending the political career of rabidly anti-gun State Senator David Roberti of California. Howard now faces an $808,000 fine.

Roberti and Assemblyman Mike Roos were the chief sponsors of the legislation that banned semi-automatic firearms. They pushed it in the name of fighting crime, even though then Attorney General Van de Kamp had found that the targeted weapons were involved in less than one percent of the state's homicides.

Howard was a volunteer with Citizens Against Corruption (CAC) in 1990 when the group spearheaded a campaign against Roos.
While Roos was re-elected, his amazingly small margin prompted his resignation a few months later after CAC announced preparations for a recall campaign.

CAC employed a re-mail technique to leverage the relatively scarce grassroots dollars they had raised to use against Roos. They made voter names in Roos' district available to volunteers, with a letter explaining why Roos should be voted out of office. The volunteers mailed the letters in their own envelopes into Roos' district.

CAC volunteers bore all the expenses themselves. These donations were independent expenditures that were way less than what would be required to be reported to the state's speech police, the Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC). Later the Commission would include non-reporting of unknowable independent volunteer expenses as part of the unconstitutionally draconian fine (the Eighth Amendment bars excessive fines).

In 1992, Howard became executive director of Citizens Against Corruption. Because redistricting had unfavorably shifted David
Roberti's old Hollywood district, he ran that year in a special election for a Senate seat that was vacated when one of his cronies went to prison for extortion. It was a safe Democratic district, but the hope was to force him to spend enough in the primary to wound him. CAC's efforts indeed resulted in Roberti spending $2,500,000 on the primary and the runoff.

Roberti raised so much money that other campaigns around the state were harmed because money they might have raised went to Roberti instead. Partly because Democrats worried that he might do it again, he later had to step down as President of the Senate.

Immediately after Roberti limped into the runoff primary victory circle, CAC began planning a recall campaign on him. The April 1994 legislative recall was the first to qualify for the ballot since 1914. Roberti had about maxed out his political credit card with Democrat donors. And what made them even less inclined to extend him more political financing was the fact that he was to be term-limited out at the end of 1994.

Moreover, Roberti had announced his candidacy for the State Treasurer's office. That primary was scheduled for June 1994, just a few weeks after the recall. This jacked his need for campaign funds much higher, even while his credit limit with fellow-Democrats was being exhausted.

Roberti survived the recall, but only by a small margin. The primary election for Treasurer was just a few weeks away, and Roberti lost. He blamed the "gun lobby" for ending his career by exhausting his resources.

But

Btt!

Buy buy buy.

All the while doing what you can to thwart the commies before it comes to force.

Constitutional - When was that ever in the way of writing new laws?  

AW ban will sunset in 2004 or doubya will.

Treason?  Did someone say treason?  Treason is something Bill Clinton needs to worry about in his dotage.  

I hope when the Soccer Moms finally(!)find out how the People's Republic (no, the [u]other[/u] People's Republic) of China got all their missile technology for a song and dance by the Loral Corp., they just may, repeat, may get ticked at the Boy Wonder President. Then again, I doubt it.

[red]"Treason doth never prosper, what´s the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason."[/red]
       --Sir John Harrington

Eric The Hun

the assault weapons ban is not unconstitutional. oh my god a traitor!  no nothing like that just hear me out. we have to look at it objectively from a legal viewpoint.  does the law restrict our ownership of these weapons?  no.  I have an ar15, bought after 1994 from a gun dealer so that is proof that the law does not infringe on my right to own a weapon.  the constitution doesn't say anything about extras.  a compensator and a bayonet lug are not integral parts of the weapon. the law is what is referred to as "emtpy legislation"   it only exists to appease the democrat's constituents and does not take anything from us so just let it go and don't worry about it.

Do as they do in Florida!

The following links are not for whiners, wankers, anti-militia, or SWAT GROUPIES!

Visit http://www.fsdf.org see how the efforts in Florida may apply elsewhere!

Then go to http://www.coin-army-usa.org learn about efforts to expose criminal activity with government.