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Posted: 12/13/2016 12:29:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2016 7:01:20 PM EST by BGENE]
Did not spot a dupe - if call dupe SHOW ME the dupe Thanks

Bakersfield newspaper story - meh - nothing to see;

A Bakersfield police officer shot and killed a man who brandished a handgun in southwest Bakersfield early Monday morning, authorities said.

The Kern County coroner's office identified the man as 73-year-old Francisco Serna of Bakersfield.

At about 12:35 a.m., the Bakersfield Police Department received a report of an adult male brandishing a handgun in the 7900 block of Silver Birch Avenue, according to a BPD news release.

When officers arrived, a witness directed them to the man, who was in the driveway of a nearby residence. During the encounter, one officer fired several rounds, striking the person, the news release said. It said medical aid was called but despite their efforts, the man was pronounced dead at the scene.

No one else was hurt in the incident, the BPD said. It said the officer involved in the shooting was placed on routine administrative leave pending a review by the Critical Incident Review Board.

DAILY MAIL Version;

An unarmed grandfather in the early stages of dementia was shot dead by police while he walked around the block near his home.

Francisco Serna, 73, was hit nine times by gunfire from police in Bakersfield, California, answering a call about a man with a gun - but no weapon was recovered from the scene.

He was stood in his neighbor's driveway at around 12.30am Monday morning when he was gunned down. His family said he took the late-night walks to tire himself out.

Police had arrived at the 7900 block of Silver Birch Avenue and, when a witness pointed to Serna, one officer fired several rounds and killed him, Bakersfield police spokesman Sgt. Gary Carruesco tells the Los Angeles Times.

No gun was turned up in a search of the scene or Serna's house or car, Carruesco said.

Serna's son said his father had worked at a cotton gin in California's Central Valley until retiring about a dozen years ago.

He lived on the block where he was killed. Serna had five children and lived with his wife and one of his daughters.

DM Link
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:44:53 PM EST
Neither version paints a pretty picture.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:47:33 PM EST
Racist police gunned down another unarmed black man. 



Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:48:50 PM EST
How threatening could an unarmed 73 year old man be?  
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:50:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ProudVeteran:
How threatening could an unarmed 73 year old man be?  
View Quote

How threatening is a bullet?
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:51:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ProudVeteran:
How threatening could an unarmed 73 year old man be?  
View Quote

not very
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:55:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amd_dude:

How threatening is a bullet?
View Quote


Well it sounds like he would've had to throw it at them...so not very.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:56:11 PM EST
Both articles suck and give almost no pertinent info.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:57:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By beardog296:


Well it sounds like he would've had to throw it at them...so not very.
View Quote

thanks for that thoughtful and informed analysis
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:57:46 PM EST


9 Times.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:58:52 PM EST
A somewhat surprising number of old senile people take pot shots at police and other first responders every year. 

Regardless, those stories aren't exactly complete and through news reports. 
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 12:59:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2016 1:28:13 PM EST by beardog296]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amd_dude:

thanks for that thoughtful and informed analysis
View Quote


Did you read the part where the police spokesman said no gun was recovered at the scene, home, or vehicle?

ETA: You know, lack of attention to details like that is how 73 year old grandfathers get shot.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:04:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ttushooter:
Both articles suck and give almost no pertinent info.
View Quote

No gun was found seems fairly pertinent
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:05:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By BGENE:
Did not spot a dupe - if call dupe SHOW ME the fuckn dupe Thanks
View Quote


Dude chill.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:10:25 PM EST
So who called in the "man brandishing a gun" call?

Sounds like a really good way to get somebody half crazy, deaf, or non English-speaking shot by cops....
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:13:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2016 1:13:29 PM EST by sigp226]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Neither version paints a pretty picture.
View Quote

Indeed.

Who told the cops that the old man had a gun?

Why was a delusional old man who appeared to have Alzheimer's walking around by himself in the dark? The family should have been with him if he insisted on taking his walk.

Why did the cop shoot?
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:15:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
So who called in the "man brandishing a gun" call?

Sounds like a really good way to get somebody half crazy, deaf, or non English-speaking shot by cops....
View Quote


Probably no one.

It's a CYA type of thing.

"Oh shit we shot an old man standing in a driveway. Gosh well, ummm, we got a call about a man with a gun, cuz guns are all over place, so like, we had to get it on. "
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:16:37 PM EST
Bad shoot.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:16:46 PM EST
SeniorLivesMatter!
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:22:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Federov:


Probably no one.

It's a CYA type of thing.

"Oh shit we shot an old man standing in a driveway. Gosh well, ummm, we got a call about a man with a gun, cuz guns are all over place, so like, we had to get it on. "
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Federov:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
So who called in the "man brandishing a gun" call?

Sounds like a really good way to get somebody half crazy, deaf, or non English-speaking shot by cops....


Probably no one.

It's a CYA type of thing.

"Oh shit we shot an old man standing in a driveway. Gosh well, ummm, we got a call about a man with a gun, cuz guns are all over place, so like, we had to get it on. "


Damn.. I just thought I was cynical about cops.

If there was a 911 call, it will be recorded.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:25:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:

Indeed.

Who told the cops that the old man had a gun?

Why was a delusional old man who appeared to have Alzheimer's walking around by himself in the dark? The family should have been with him if he insisted on taking his walk.

Why did the cop shoot?
View Quote



Article didn't say who called it in.

Old people with Alzheimer's Disease do things. It is not even rational to say that a person can be watched 24/7/365 by family members. Perhaps at 12:30 AM everyone else was asleep?

The articles don't say why the police shot him. Plenty of ideas about which to speculate, though.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:25:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:

Indeed.

Who told the cops that the old man had a gun?

Why was a delusional old man who appeared to have Alzheimer's walking around by himself in the dark? The family should have been with him if he insisted on taking his walk.

Why did the cop shoot?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Neither version paints a pretty picture.

Indeed.

Who told the cops that the old man had a gun?

Why was a delusional old man who appeared to have Alzheimer's walking around by himself in the dark? The family should have been with him if he insisted on taking his walk.

Why did the cop shoot?


Qualified immunity.

"I reasonably believed...... Based on my training and what my FTO told me 5 years ago......"
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:27:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Federov:


Probably no one.

It's a CYA type of thing.

"Oh shit we shot an old man standing in a driveway. Gosh well, ummm, we got a call about a man with a gun, cuz guns are all over place, so like, we had to get it on. "
View Quote

You realize all 911 calls are recorded, right?

GD never fails when it comes to stupid fucking comments
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:28:22 PM EST
Sounds like a bad shoot.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:30:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:30:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fish1856:

You realize all 911 calls are recorded, right?

GD never fails when it comes to stupid fucking comments
View Quote


Yeah, and those only come out if it goes to court, and if it's admissible and doesn't get "lost".

You're certainly right about stupid comments on here.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:36:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By efpeter:
The articles don't say why the police shot him. Plenty of ideas about which to speculate, though.
View Quote


He was WALKING!!! IN THE DARK!!!
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:36:49 PM EST
I'm going to go out on a limb and state that Bakersfield is going to be writing someone a check. Not a "prevent rioters from burning down the city" sized check, but a check nonetheless.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:40:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amd_dude:

How threatening is a bullet?
View Quote

Just going by the article that said no gun or other weapon was found.  Old men are very slow, there was no way to distract him then rush him to the ground?  Why the need to shoot some slow old man who wasn't brandishing a gun?  There are times in law enforcement when you may have the right to do something but it is beter to show restraint and use a lesser means to gain compliance.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:44:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ProudVeteran:

Just going by the article that said no gun or other weapon was found.  Old men are very slow, there was no way to distract him then rush him to the ground?  Why the need to shoot some slow old man who wasn't brandishing a gun?  There are times in law enforcement when you may have the right to do something but it is beter to show restraint and use a lesser means to gain compliance.
View Quote

A 911 call is basically the same as a witness saying something.  If you called 911 and said someone had a gun, would you expect the locals to just mosey on up to a dangerous situation like they were on a coffee run?  Of course not.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:46:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amd_dude:

How threatening is a bullet?
View Quote

RIF "No gun was turned up in a search of the scene or Serna's house or car, Carruesco said."
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 1:47:58 PM EST
PRESS THE FIGHT!!
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:06:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ProudVeteran:
How threatening could an unarmed 73 year old man be?  
View Quote

He was demented. They have retard strength and can be quite dangerous even when unarmed, as they're unable to reason or recognize that their actions are wrong.

Assuming there really was a man with a gun call, this seems like a good shoot. He probably was not following commands to show that he was unarmed. If I were demented I'd be grateful if someone shot me. I wouldn't want to continue to lose my connection to reality to the point that I couldn't even recognize my family.

Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:08:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sigp226:

Indeed.

Who told the cops that the old man had a gun?

Why was a delusional old man who appeared to have Alzheimer's walking around by himself in the dark? The family should have been with him if he insisted on taking his walk.

Why did the cop shoot?
View Quote



Why?

Think about it a little...


Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:08:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:12:58 PM EST
I would like to point out that just because a handgun wasn't located does not mean the man wasn't brandishing some other object. For all we know, he may well have had a fake weapon in his hand - the news does not report enough detail to say one way or another.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:14:28 PM EST
dupe
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:14:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2016 2:17:20 PM EST by ttushooter]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xxprince:

No gun was found seems fairly pertinent
View Quote


So you are saying it is only justifiable to use lethal force is if a gun is present?

Not that I'm saying this is a justifiable use of force, because a lot of key info is missing. Like what was said, what actions were taken, what did the officer observe, what other info, good or bad, did the officer have, etc., etc.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:15:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SARS:
If I were demented I'd be grateful if someone shot me. I wouldn't want to continue to lose my connection to reality to the point that I couldn't even recognize my family.
View Quote


If I were permanently brain damaged maybe.

But if I just took a Tic Tac instead of my pill that morning and decided to go for a stroll... I wouldn't appreciate being blown out of my socks one bit.

The cops here need to be able to articulate their perceived threat.. maybe they can, maybe not. And there needs to be at least a cursory investigation opened on whoever placed the "man with gun" call.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:19:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SARS:

He was demented. They have retard strength and can be quite dangerous even when unarmed, as they're unable to reason or recognize that their actions are wrong.

Assuming there really was a man with a gun call, this seems like a good shoot. He probably was not following commands to show that he was unarmed. If I were demented I'd be grateful if someone shot me. I wouldn't want to continue to lose my connection to reality to the point that I couldn't even recognize my family.
View Quote


:/
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:20:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

All calls to the cops are logged and available later. Nice try--but you fail miserably.
View Quote


That's not true where I live.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:23:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:23:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


That's not true where I live.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

All calls to the cops are logged and available later. Nice try--but you fail miserably.


That's not true where I live.


Jeez... where do you live, Burkino Faso?

Even in podunk small-town TN here all the 911 calls are digitally logged and recorded.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:28:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2016 2:29:29 PM EST by beardog296]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


:/
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By SARS:

He was demented. They have retard strength and can be quite dangerous even when unarmed, as they're unable to reason or recognize that their actions are wrong.

Assuming there really was a man with a gun call, this seems like a good shoot. He probably was not following commands to show that he was unarmed. If I were demented I'd be grateful if someone shot me. I wouldn't want to continue to lose my connection to reality to the point that I couldn't even recognize my family.


:/



You mean like a command of "drop the gun?" Which is kind of hard to do if you don't have one. Or maybe it went something like one genius screaming to show them his hands while another simultaneously screams to get on the ground. That shit works great to get confused old men to cooperate.

Of course I'm speculating just as much as SARS. Maybe we'll see dash cam video some day after the city quietly pays the family a few hundred thousand.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:29:55 PM EST
GD cop thread.

You damn betcha I'm in!
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:30:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By efpeter:
Old people with Alzheimer's Disease do things. It is not even rational to say that a person can be watched 24/7/365 by family members. Perhaps at 12:30 AM everyone else was asleep?

The articles don't say why the police shot him. Plenty of ideas about which to speculate, though.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By efpeter:
Old people with Alzheimer's Disease do things. It is not even rational to say that a person can be watched 24/7/365 by family members. Perhaps at 12:30 AM everyone else was asleep?

The articles don't say why the police shot him. Plenty of ideas about which to speculate, though.

They should have made it their business to watch him since they knew what was happening. Imagine if the guy walked into traffic or got lost and fell in a ditch.

http://bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/family-73-year-old-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-suffered-from-dementia
Family members of the decedent said Serna suffered from the early stages of dementia. Serna's son said his father showed signs of it since 2015, and his symptoms recently increased.

Family said Serna often went on walks when he had trouble sleeping to make himself tired before bed.


Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

All calls to the cops are logged and available later. Nice try--but you fail miserably.


That's not true where I live.

Bakersfield has 350,000 people. I would be surprised if they didn't record 911 calls.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:32:25 PM EST
I'm sure Bakersfield does, though it's only minimally relevant that someone was called beforehand.

In my town on 5,000 two of my four calls to the police went completely unanswered.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:32:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/13/2016 2:33:04 PM EST by RegisteredTM]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WesJanson:
I would like to point out that just because a handgun wasn't located does not mean the man wasn't brandishing some other object. For all we know, he may well have had a fake weapon in his hand - the news does not report enough detail to say one way or another.
View Quote

It's probably best if the gov. instills a curfew for before dark and chop our arms off so we won't look like we're brandishing some object while scraching our asses.
Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:34:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SARS:

He was demented. They have retard strength and can be quite dangerous even when unarmed, as they're unable to reason or recognize that their actions are wrong.

Assuming there really was a man with a gun call, this seems like a good shoot. He probably was not following commands to show that he was unarmed. If I were demented I'd be grateful if someone shot me. I wouldn't want to continue to lose my connection to reality to the point that I couldn't even recognize my family.
View Quote


That's not really a call you can make for this guy, though. Maybe this gentleman wanted to live.

FYI, people with dementia tend to lose physical strength not gain "retard strength", and their dementia can come in phases where sometimes they are as lucid and with it as they were in their prime, but at other time they have only a tentative grasp on reality and start to lose recognition.

I'm not going to pre-empt this as the information from the article is very poor. It could be anything from poor judgement by the police officer, to suicide by cop - just because no gun was found, doesn't mean the old guy didn't have something that might have looked like a gun, either by chance, or by deliberate intent. Who knows.

However, shooting an apparently unarmed elderly man 9 times does warrant a thorough investigation.

Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:36:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History



Link Posted: 12/13/2016 2:38:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

In my town on 5,000 two of my four calls to the police went completely unanswered.
View Quote


Impossible. Unless you're posting from beyond the grave. You called the cops and they didn't show up? Nobody could survive that.
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