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Link Posted: 9/24/2023 10:23:31 AM EDT
[#1]
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That is not the point. The point is that first grenade made that "orc" a not combative. More than likely, the "orc" will die in short order. Kind of pointless to keep dropping grenades on him.

Plus, i automatically discount the opinion of anyone who refers to another human being as an orc. That is raw propaganda. Likely just some concrripted schmuck who really doesn't want to be there.
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It doesn’t work like that. You don’t stop fire missions because you observe wounded nor do you call off the air strikes. The fires continue until your forces are able to seize the terrain. At that point it becomes unlawful. Render aid and take into custody. This wasn’t an attack on a clearly marked ambulance, it was a combatant on the field of battle.

Is attacking a barracks full of sleeping soldiers a war crime in your eyes?
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 10:49:06 AM EDT
[#2]
I can recognize that the soldier was probably a conscript with little say if he was going to Ukraine or not. That said, the rapes and extrajudicial executions in occupied Ukraine, and the purposeful targeting of civilians by Russia would leave me far less concerned with anyone’s life bearing the Russian federation flag on their shoulder.

If someone were to invade my home country… I wouldn’t plan on taking prisoners.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 10:55:37 AM EDT
[#3]
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Where are all the Uk fan bois
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Circle jerking in one of the trump threads
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 10:59:32 AM EDT
[#4]
If a foreign military invades the US, they won’t get to beg for mercy after getting a boo-boo from me. ZFG…
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 11:15:15 AM EDT
[#5]
This was in no way a war crime.

It may be shocking to civilans, but it isn't violating the laws of war.

The soldier was still a combatant, because you can't surrender to something that can't take you into custody and control you.    
There is no surrender possible unless opposing troops are present to accept the surrender and physically take him into custody.

Otherwise, he just rejoins friendly forces when the drone leaves, gets patched up in a hospital, and then ends up killing more Ukrainians.

The laws of war are codified with specific language and definitions that were developed to be practical enough that most participants would be willing to respect them.      
Just because something seems outrageous to you, or isn't the way you would do it, doesn't make it a war crime.

This drone was fully compliant with the laws of war.
It may have been a human tragedy and suffering, but that is actually the normal situation of a war, played out millions of times for different individuals.

War is full of unfair suffering.  Naive people wanted to ban war, but that didn't work as a practical matter.
The laws of war are a good step toward preventing unnecessary suffering, but to expect them to prevent all suffering is a fool's errand.


Link Posted: 9/24/2023 11:17:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Screenshots from the longer video.

Pic 1 - meet Russian battle buddy. He sports a earth toned helmet and carries AK pattern rifle. Pic 2 - Watch battle buddy move branches away to clear his shooting lane as "victim" of war crime crawls out of his trench/foxhole. Pic 3 - Watch battle buddy crawl away and abandon the supposed victim instead of surrendering with him. Drone drops more ordnance in the area until the threats are neutralized.

Had the Ukrainian assault failed, that "victim" would've likely been carried to safety (off the front lines) by his comrades.

Pic 1 -

Pic 2 -

Pic 3 -

Link Posted: 9/24/2023 11:19:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Invade someone and pay the price.

Oh well.

to quote a wonderful movie -

"BECAUSE WE LIVE HERE"
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:22:28 PM EDT
[#8]
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I too know people from Ukraine, it goes without saying how much I respect your opinions on matter.  

Overall though, my opinion is Ukraine is a corrupt society, much like russia.  I dont think they should have been invaded.  But this is an issue that goes far beyond anything we can comprehend over here.  Hundreds/thousands of years.  I wish the PEOPLE the best, but everybody got problems.  Us giving them money isnt solving anything near as I can tell.  

I mostly stay out of Ukraine threads.  But overall my opinion is we needed to mind our own business.  Also, I hate putin with purple passion.  

We are screwed as a society.  Top to bottom, so are they.


ETA: just to be clear, I dont give two shits that drone offed that guy in war.
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While I dont agree with the way our tax money is used...to mostly line the pockets of people like Biden under the guise of helping Ukraine, the Ukrainians are not the bad guys, here. Eastern ones....maybe. But many of them are Russian transplants.

I personally know people from Ukraine. And have personal friends who have been there recently.

It's a mess, for sure. But to lump the average Ukrainian who wants to defend his country against russian invasion is misguided, from my perspective.

We would not want to be judged by our leader any more than those guys want to be judged by theirs.
I too know people from Ukraine, it goes without saying how much I respect your opinions on matter.  

Overall though, my opinion is Ukraine is a corrupt society, much like russia.  I dont think they should have been invaded.  But this is an issue that goes far beyond anything we can comprehend over here.  Hundreds/thousands of years.  I wish the PEOPLE the best, but everybody got problems.  Us giving them money isnt solving anything near as I can tell.  

I mostly stay out of Ukraine threads.  But overall my opinion is we needed to mind our own business.  Also, I hate putin with purple passion.  

We are screwed as a society.  Top to bottom, so are they.


ETA: just to be clear, I dont give two shits that drone offed that guy in war.

I dont disagree with any of this.

Sad part is...our country has become just as corrupt, or damn near. The president isn't running anything. DOJ, CBI, CIA, IRS have all been weaponized and are used to quash political enemies. I
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:39:49 PM EDT
[#9]
The premise of this thread is completely retarded.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:42:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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Probably the same thing Ukranian civilians did in Bucha when the Russians came through before they were killed. Fuck the Russians.
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This.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:43:03 PM EDT
[#11]
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When you invade another country and slaughter civilians, it usually doesn't turn out like a fucking children's story.
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That.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:46:33 PM EDT
[#12]
If you kill enough of the invaders they will stop coming.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:48:34 PM EDT
[#13]
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That is not the point. The point is that first grenade made that "orc" a not combative.
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So anyone who is wounded in combat is immediately protected by the Geneva convention as a non combatant?  That is indeed a novel theory inconsistent with reality.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 12:58:20 PM EDT
[#14]
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When you invade another country and slaughter civilians, it usually doesn't turn out like a fucking children's story.
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What happens when you slaughter your own and get caught lying about it?
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 1:04:25 PM EDT
[#15]
The $$$ must flow and the big guy must get his cut! Daily lies of victory and glory on both sides are the tripe the puppet masters feed while bleeding us dry of our money and freedoms. Fuck everyone and everything!
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 1:10:15 PM EDT
[#16]
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UKR-Bois are gathering now for their IO offensive on this thread, of that you can be sure.
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Despite a government driven MSM and online spam campaign, designed to rig the PR game in Ukraine's favor, the Ukrainians still manage to make themselves look absolutely abhorrent. Compare to the kneecap shooting video, also starring Ukrainians.  

Once the Ukraine shill script hits something like this, they have to reboot and go back to knock-knock who's there nonsense like "But Russia could just surrender and go home!" or "But what about kyiv/kiev in 2 days!"

UKR-Bois are gathering now for their IO offensive on this thread, of that you can be sure.
They'll be along as soon as the circle jerk is completed
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 1:12:33 PM EDT
[#17]
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There's no such thing as a Ruskiebro. I know you guys need one so bad that I almost hope someone shows up for you someday.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 1:22:14 PM EDT
[#18]
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There's no such thing as a Ruskiebro. I know you guys need one so bad that I almost hope someone shows up for you someday.
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Cool story, Bro.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 1:36:15 PM EDT
[#19]
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Cool story, Bro.
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There's no such thing as a Ruskiebro. I know you guys need one so bad that I almost hope someone shows up for you someday.



Cool story, Bro.
Almost as cool as you and maybe 10 other guys desperately manufacturing RuskieBro outrage the same way the race baiters here spray paint the backwards swastikas when they can't find actual racism

Why don't you post the screenshot of the one troll saying something supportive of Russia back in 2021? I've seen that one screenshot in about 25 threads over the past couple years as evidence of commie support lol
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:01:10 PM EDT
[#20]
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The premise of this thread is completely retarded.
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It sure the fuck is.  Pathetic.  All this whining and effort to somehow portray Ukraine in a bad light shows how good Russian propaganda has turned people into online advocates... there was no crying warcrime when an American special forces soldier murdered a bomb maker that was in custody after he killed fellow americans.  Ffs what's happening here is disgusting.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:04:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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The premise of this thread is completely retarded.
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The premise of this thread is completely retarded.


Yes and the OP is a pretty good dude.

Quoted:

Circle jerking in one of the trump threads



I’m a fan of the United Kingdom, but we have group circle jerks?


And I wasn’t invited?!!????

Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:24:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Nope……..no mercy kill them all
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:29:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:32:32 PM EDT
[#24]
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It doesn't work like that. You don't stop fire missions because you observe wounded nor do you call off the air strikes. The fires continue until your forces are able to seize the terrain. At that point it becomes unlawful. Render aid and take into custody. This wasn't an attack on a clearly marked ambulance, it was a combatant on the field of battle.

Is attacking a barracks full of sleeping soldiers a war crime in your eyes?
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People really are utterly ignorant to the reality of war..
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:35:46 PM EDT
[#25]
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24 MEU's lawyer in AFG in 08 did in fact tell the FSCC to check firing the battery when TB were surrendering to UAS that was adjusting the fire.  By the strictest interpretation of the laws of armed conflict, firing at enemy personnel who are attempting to surrender is not permitted
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The US also lost that war.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:38:13 PM EDT
[#26]
The fucked up part is someone made the decision to post that video. That was some cruel, ISIS level shit right there. Fucked up shit happens. Deciding to post it and someone providing the oxygen to do so elevates it to another level.

Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:40:32 PM EDT
[#27]
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“90 years ago….”

“both commit war crimes”

“Nazis on both sides”

“can’t tell who to really root against here!”

You’re trying way too hard.
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https://i.ibb.co/RT0chmR/IMG-3922.gif

Tell us more about all the evidence you have to condemn both as entire nations full of people


You want a list of Russian and Ukrainian war crimes dating back over 90 years? Both sides are brutal. Both sides when not friends seem to take great pleasure in raping, torturing and generally murdering the other side.  The squabble between Ukraine and Russia isnt new..nor is the hate.

Both sides in WW2 had Nazi units.. RONA and the Galicians to name a few. Now it seems they are at it again with the Galicians volunteers and whats left of the Wagner group and other nasty shitbags

Its all fine and well to hate the Russians.. but to say the Ukrainians are any better is laughable.. other than language and some culture.. who can tell them apart at times due to their barbarity..

This war may end one day... but the hate will continue and in time im sure they will both be back at it again.



“90 years ago….”

“both commit war crimes”

“Nazis on both sides”

“can’t tell who to really root against here!”

You’re trying way too hard.



You calling someone else a try hard is the biggest laugh I've gotten all day...thanks for that.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:42:59 PM EDT
[#28]
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The fucked up part is someone made the decision to post that video. That was some cruel, ISIS level shit right there. Fucked up shit happens. Deciding to post it and someone providing the oxygen to do so elevates it to another level.

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Not ISIS level at all.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:55:00 PM EDT
[#29]
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Because they're not terrorists until they get their time in front of a judge per writ of habeas corpus.
And if you don't see a problem with a president doing whatever the hell he wants to anyone  as long as he does it to them offshore, then there is no arguing with you.
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Why would terrorists be charged and tried in a court during a conflict?  

Why would a foreign terrorist be afforded Constitutional protections after being captured on a battlefield on the other side of the globe?




Because they're not terrorists until they get their time in front of a judge per writ of habeas corpus.
And if you don't see a problem with a president doing whatever the hell he wants to anyone  as long as he does it to them offshore, then there is no arguing with you.


Judges and especially lawyers should have a very LIMITED role in war.  Thank God Dubya understood that basic concept.

Want to be treated like lawful combatant during war?  Then act like it.  Otherwise you get what’s coming to you.  

Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:55:07 PM EDT
[#30]
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The US also lost that war.
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24 MEU's lawyer in AFG in 08 did in fact tell the FSCC to check firing the battery when TB were surrendering to UAS that was adjusting the fire.  By the strictest interpretation of the laws of armed conflict, firing at enemy personnel who are attempting to surrender is not permitted
The US also lost that war.


The Executive Branch has carried out several unsuccessful Special Military Operations all over the globe. We were just along for the ride




Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:56:37 PM EDT
[#31]
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Unlawful combatants getting a trial was unique.
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Because they're not terrorists until they get their time in front of a judge per writ of habeas corpus.
And if you don't see a problem with a president doing whatever the hell he wants to anyone  as long as he does it to them offshore, then there is no arguing with you.


Unlawful combatants getting a trial was unique.


Sounds like he voted for John “I would have treated 9/11 as a law enforcement matter” Kerry.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 2:58:59 PM EDT
[#32]
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Sounds like he voted for John “I would have treated 9/11 as a law enforcement matter” Kerry.
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Because they're not terrorists until they get their time in front of a judge per writ of habeas corpus.
And if you don't see a problem with a president doing whatever the hell he wants to anyone  as long as he does it to them offshore, then there is no arguing with you.


Unlawful combatants getting a trial was unique.


Sounds like he voted for John “I would have treated 9/11 as a law enforcement matter” Kerry.


It is the Law of Land Warfare after all :lol:
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:10:44 PM EDT
[#33]
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Under the Geneva and Hague conventions, as well as the laws and customs of war, the bombing of Japan was a legitimate action.

The US didn't machine guns Japanese sailors in the water (the Japanese did, and behead US sailors pulled from the water).
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USS Wahoo reported shooting survivors after submarine attacks and destroying their lifeboats so the subs presence would not be reported
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:15:39 PM EDT
[#34]
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The US also lost that war.
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24 MEU's lawyer in AFG in 08 did in fact tell the FSCC to check firing the battery when TB were surrendering to UAS that was adjusting the fire.  By the strictest interpretation of the laws of armed conflict, firing at enemy personnel who are attempting to surrender is not permitted
The US also lost that war.


R0N's story alone made it worth reading through the thread.  Those JAG actions are one of the stupidest things I've read.  It ties into another comment in the thread that, "Just because a lawyer says it's so, doesn't mean it's so.  Find another lawyer, and see what they say about it."

Agreed, no wonder we lost.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:15:58 PM EDT
[#35]
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That’s silly.

You can’t surrender to a drone.

You can quit the fight and run towards the enemy, because you don’t want to die.

But asking for mercy when there’s no way to safely more you across those lines isn’t surrender, it’s regret.
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Yup, this thread is hilarious. Just arfcoms resident softheads giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

If we do a drone strike on ISIS in Syria or whatever and they see the drone and do "hands up" do we call off the strike?
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:21:56 PM EDT
[#36]
looooook I washed for supper.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:22:22 PM EDT
[#37]
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Saudi Arabia attacked the USA?

I distinctly recall the training camps and backing being from Afghanistan and Al qaeda.

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Saudis attacked us. Wonder why we didn’t invade them…


Saudi Arabia attacked the USA?

I distinctly recall the training camps and backing being from Afghanistan and Al qaeda.



I recall a Saudi foreign ministry that knew that most of the hijackers were jihadi shitheads, and instead of locking them up, issued their passports and omitted telling the US about its citizens' past activities.  

Does that make the KSA a combatant?  No, but it involves some questions that needed to be asked, but weren't, and perhaps some people over there needed to get punished for it, but weren't.

That said, OBL picked those guys specifically to drive a wedge between the US and KSA.  Looked like for a lot of you, it was successful.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:25:42 PM EDT
[#38]
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Why aren't we seeing videos of oligarchs' motorcades being attacked and their houses droned?

Seeing videos of some poor fuck that was forced to be there getting blown to pieces by his cousin from over the border is a bummer. The dudes happily cheering on the death of "orcs" in these kinds of threads possess some powerful shrimp-dick energy.

Show me the shattered remains of the dudes forcing these kids to kill each other and then we'll have a party.
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Lack of reach.  But I agree with you.  

The UKR isn't winning a war of attrition. Kill those pushing the war, OTOH, and they have a chance of turning this thing off.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:29:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:39:14 PM EDT
[#40]
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The fucked up part is someone made the decision to post that video. That was some cruel, ISIS level shit right there. Fucked up shit happens. Deciding to post it and someone providing the oxygen to do so elevates it to another level.

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LOL, no, now it was nowhere near the level of the ISIS videos. Far from it.

Actually pretty tame compared to some other shit from this war.

Fuck the russian scum. If they don't like it they can end it by just going home.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:46:55 PM EDT
[#41]
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The US also lost that war.
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24 MEU's lawyer in AFG in 08 did in fact tell the FSCC to check firing the battery when TB were surrendering to UAS that was adjusting the fire.  By the strictest interpretation of the laws of armed conflict, firing at enemy personnel who are attempting to surrender is not permitted
The US also lost that war.

Wait til you find out  the same people in charge of defense establishment during that war, did most of the US planning for this war.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:47:57 PM EDT
[#42]
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R0N's story alone made it worth reading through the thread.  Those JAG actions are one of the stupidest things I've read.  It ties into another comment in the thread that, "Just because a lawyer says it's so, doesn't mean it's so.  Find another lawyer, and see what they say about it."

Agreed, no wonder we lost.
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Whole new meaning to 'Lawfare'
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:49:23 PM EDT
[#43]
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Almost as cool as you and maybe 10 other guys desperately manufacturing RuskieBro outrage the same way the race baiters here spray paint the backwards swastikas when they can't find actual racism

Why don't you post the screenshot of the one troll saying something supportive of Russia back in 2021? I've seen that one screenshot in about 25 threads over the past couple years as evidence of commie support lol
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Russian supporters exist here on Arfcom.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:50:09 PM EDT
[#44]
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The US also lost that war.
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Fucking horseshit like that is why lawyers don't belong anywhere near a TOC.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:50:56 PM EDT
[#45]
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Wait til you find out  the same people in charge of defense establishment during that war, did most of the US planning for this war.
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Some of the advice given by the US mil to Ukraine is obvious considering the 'dont hit this or that' news that comes out or the weird 'but you cant strike inside Russia with our weapons' garbage.  I however seriously doubt it is doing Ukraine mil planning.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:52:22 PM EDT
[#46]
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Call them what they are: supporters of genocide.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:56:48 PM EDT
[#47]
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Operational elements have lawyers, but the lawyers are not the decision makers.
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24 MEU's lawyer in AFG in 08 did in fact tell the FSCC to check firing the battery when TB were surrendering to UAS that was adjusting the fire.  By the strictest interpretation of the laws of armed conflict, firing at enemy personnel who are attempting to surrender is not permitted
The US also lost that war.


R0N's story alone made it worth reading through the thread.  Those JAG actions are one of the stupidest things I've read.  It ties into another comment in the thread that, "Just because a lawyer says it's so, doesn't mean it's so.  Find another lawyer, and see what they say about it."

Agreed, no wonder we lost.

Operational elements have lawyers, but the lawyers are not the decision makers.

Fair point, but I will retort by asking what percent of operational commanders will after being told by their SJA something is illegal, tell them to pound sand and we are doing it anyway?
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:58:53 PM EDT
[#48]
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Some of the advice given by the US mil to Ukraine is obvious considering the 'dont hit this or that' news that comes out or the weird 'but you cant strike inside Russia with our weapons' garbage.  I however seriously doubt it is doing Ukraine mil planning.
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Wait til you find out  the same people in charge of defense establishment during that war, did most of the US planning for this war.
Some of the advice given by the US mil to Ukraine is obvious considering the 'dont hit this or that' news that comes out or the weird 'but you cant strike inside Russia with our weapons' garbage.  I however seriously doubt it is doing Ukraine mil planning.

Who do you think has been acknowledged by open source news provided them with intel and mensuration to allow them to hit their targets?
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 3:59:43 PM EDT
[#49]
War isn’t the movie’s. There’s a reason for the slogan “War is Hell”. Not going to watch. People are not always rational in war. And when you’re getting hit by these guys you probably don’t have a lot of love in your heart for them. I’m not justifying it, just stating facts.
Link Posted: 9/24/2023 4:03:17 PM EDT
[#50]
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Operational elements have lawyers, but the lawyers are not the decision makers.
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24 MEU's lawyer in AFG in 08 did in fact tell the FSCC to check firing the battery when TB were surrendering to UAS that was adjusting the fire.  By the strictest interpretation of the laws of armed conflict, firing at enemy personnel who are attempting to surrender is not permitted
The US also lost that war.


R0N's story alone made it worth reading through the thread.  Those JAG actions are one of the stupidest things I've read.  It ties into another comment in the thread that, "Just because a lawyer says it's so, doesn't mean it's so.  Find another lawyer, and see what they say about it."

Agreed, no wonder we lost.

Operational elements have lawyers, but the lawyers are not the decision makers.


Considering zero-defect management and its influences upon US military promotion practices, I think we're debating the difference between de facto and de jure and who are the shot-callers there.

Is it more important to kill the enemy, wherever they may find them, if doing so risks their boss getting some heat?  Or is it more important to do nothing that jeopardizes that fitness report and next promotion?

Stated versus revealed preferences.
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