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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:20:07 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depending what nation the invaders are from... If they were Russians it would be mouth hugs and taint tickles. But if they are from central and south America GD wants mines, miniguns and Littlebirds and Apaches on station doing gun runs on women and children. But they will loan the Vatnik their wives and children. I don't get it either. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:20:35 AM EST
[#2]
The '49 Convention covered surrendering to drones.
So smart. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:21:09 AM EST
[#3]
When the Ukrainians and Russians started immigrating to the US in the late ‘80’s early 90’s during the decline of the Soviet era our organized criminals were shocked by the level of brutality they were capable of. Where I lived in NYC the Italians and Jamaicans that had been conducting their own little turf wars suddenly didn’t want to mess with the Slavs…the human trafficking was some of the worst.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:21:39 AM EST
[#4]
appears pretty fucked up but I'm a million miles away sitting at a desk
but If I woke up tomorrow and china/russia/nork/canada had soldiers on US soil there is a good chance I would do a lot worse |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:22:40 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you know any Ukrainians? Been there or know anyone who has? Yes and yes. Slav on slav violence and they're very good at it. Nothing more. Nothing less |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:23:45 AM EST
[#6]
Seems like a waste of the extra grenades. He was probably wounded, i would have found another target. Maybe get lucky and find some supplies piled up that could be blown up.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:24:20 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: appears pretty fucked up but I'm a million miles away sitting at a desk but If I woke up tomorrow and china/russia/nork/canada had soldiers on US soil there is a good I would do a lot worse Exactly! I would make Vlad the Impaler, prince of Walachia look like a damn boy scout. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:28:13 AM EST
[#8]
The Eastern front has always been a brutal place , expect no mercy and give none is the motto.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:28:33 AM EST
[#9]
Play dead? Shoot the drone?
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:29:27 AM EST
[#10]
Ukrainians and Russians are both equally murdering Nazi loving freedom hating scumbags.. when havent they been raping, torturing and war criminals across the steppes in the last hundred years.. both sides are fucking assholes and should get the sunshine. How anybody could say one side is better than the other morally or otherwise is beyond me.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:29:33 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Firebombing the residential part of Tokyo was legitimate? Knowing that the structures were all wood and using incendiaries deliberately is totally okay? But dropping a grenade on a soldier is a war crime??? LOL! |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:30:40 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet people have surrendered to drones. And to attack helicopters (on the Highway of Death) It is disingenuous to say "you can't" when it has actually happened. Humans surrendered to a drone for the first time in 1991 .  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqKTE7BmesIt might be "difficult", but it is possible and a legitimate action. walk us through the logistics of the specific surrender this thread is about, and how the soldier would get into custody....because that's the underlying difference between a war crime and a legitimate kill. If he was deep behind Russian lines, then it was NOT a surrender - it couldn't be. If he was on the front lines and had a way to get to the UKR lines, then MAYBE it was a surrender. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:31:44 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You certainly don't share pictures and videos of fucking war crimes and then publicly laugh about it. Because then it's obvious that in your unit, if not your entire Army, that you commit war crimes. i seriously doubt they care much about your assessment did they lose your support ? did you ever offer your support and now you are shocked by the realities and what they are doing ?? i didn't think so. shit is ugly over there and they have 100% concluded the only way to win is kill and maim as many Russians in Ukraine (and elsewhere) as possible. this is not the legal hand-wringing 'western' approach that we saw for 20 years of GWOT. the 'gloves are off' over there and people need to wake up. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:33:28 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does dropping three bombs on one surrendering soldier win the war in Ukraine? This was literally a waste of munitions for the purpose of torture. He was (at least pretending to be) out of the fight after the first bomb. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:34:14 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He got up and ran pretty well. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:35:10 AM EST
[#16]
How is this a war crime
 I noticed the op didn't cover: Russian soldiers posting videos of them raping children Cutting the cock and balls off a captured Ukrainian soldier beheading another guy mass graves and torture chambers in Russian controlled areas But damn them for dropping munitions on a guy waving at a drone who was not hors de combat |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:35:55 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukrainians and Russians are both equally murdering Nazi loving freedom hating scumbags.. when havent they been raping, torturing and war criminals across the steppes in the last hundred years.. both sides are fucking assholes and should get the sunshine. How anybody could say one side is better than the other morally or otherwise is beyond me.  Tell us more about all the evidence you have to condemn both as entire nations full of people |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:36:30 AM EST
[#18]
is it common practice or good munitions inventory management to use 2-3 small bombs to take out a single soldier?
I guess it is, if someone is writing blank checks to fund your war party. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:37:43 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is this a war crime I noticed the op didn't cover: Russian soldiers posting videos of them raping children Cutting the cock and balls off a captured Ukrainian soldier beheading another guy mass graves and torture chambers in Russian controlled areas But damn them for dropping munitions on a guy waving at a drone who was not hors de combat I like hors! 
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:39:13 AM EST
[#20]
Lol, not a war crime when there is no actual way to take them prisoner (insert galaxy-brain rebuttals). You cannot take prisoners kilometers away just because they are on camera.
Wonder if anyone has surrendered to an approaching guided missile or bomber as the bombs fell on them!?! “War crime! They regretted their decision right before they died! Amazing!” I’m sure ops posted the Russian war crimes as well.  
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:41:15 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://i.ibb.co/RT0chmR/IMG-3922.gif Tell us more about all the evidence you have to condemn both as entire nations full of people You want a list of Russian and Ukrainian war crimes dating back over 90 years? Both sides are brutal. Both sides when not friends seem to take great pleasure in raping, torturing and generally murdering the other side. The squabble between Ukraine and Russia isnt new..nor is the hate. Both sides in WW2 had Nazi units.. RONA and the Galicians to name a few. Now it seems they are at it again with the Galicians volunteers and whats left of the Wagner group and other nasty shitbags Its all fine and well to hate the Russians.. but to say the Ukrainians are any better is laughable.. other than language and some culture.. who can tell them apart at times due to their barbarity.. This war may end one day... but the hate will continue and in time im sure they will both be back at it again. 
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:41:57 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The US didn't machine guns Japanese sailors in the water (the Japanese did, and behead US sailors pulled from the water). tons of examples of exactly that in US history. reading a book right now 'Beyond Valor' by Patrick O'Donnell. About WW2 airborne and Rangers. one mission brief specifically states 'take no prisoners'. WIA enemy were killed because they could not be cared for. OR --we just change the verbiage. just read a book about Abu Ghraib in Iraq. 'Standard Operating Procedure' by Errol Morris and Philip Gourevitchoh -- basically you can't do that to 'ENEMY PWs' ?? we will literally change the word to 'detainees' in all official reports / documents. NOW we can do all manner of various interrogation methods / treatments NOT ALLOWED by the Geneva Convention. let's not fall off the high horse and break our necks. nasty shit happens and hands get filthy. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:43:54 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want a list of Russian and Ukrainian war crimes dating back over 90 years? Both sides are brutal. Both sides when not friends seem to take great pleasure in raping, torturing and generally murdering the other side. The squabble between Ukraine and Russia isnt new..nor is the hate. Both sides in WW2 had Nazi units.. RONA and the Galicians to name a few. Now it seems they are at it again with the Galicians volunteers and whats left of the Wagner group and other nasty shitbags Its all fine and well to hate the Russians.. but to say the Ukrainians are any better is laughable.. other than language and some culture.. who can tell them apart at times due to their barbarity.. This war may end one day... but the hate will continue and in time im sure they will both be back at it again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://i.ibb.co/RT0chmR/IMG-3922.gif Tell us more about all the evidence you have to condemn both as entire nations full of people You want a list of Russian and Ukrainian war crimes dating back over 90 years? Both sides are brutal. Both sides when not friends seem to take great pleasure in raping, torturing and generally murdering the other side. The squabble between Ukraine and Russia isnt new..nor is the hate. Both sides in WW2 had Nazi units.. RONA and the Galicians to name a few. Now it seems they are at it again with the Galicians volunteers and whats left of the Wagner group and other nasty shitbags Its all fine and well to hate the Russians.. but to say the Ukrainians are any better is laughable.. other than language and some culture.. who can tell them apart at times due to their barbarity.. This war may end one day... but the hate will continue and in time im sure they will both be back at it again. “90 years ago….” “both commit war crimes” “Nazis on both sides” “can’t tell who to really root against here!” You’re trying way too hard. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:43:57 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posting the video was the stupid part. Everyone knows cruel things happen in war. Why be stupid and post it up so everyone sees it? Nobody accused Ukrainian fighters dropping bombs on a surrendering soldier of being smart. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:46:26 AM EST
[#25]
Code pink!
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:47:06 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When you invade another country and slaughter civilians, it usually doesn't turn out like a fucking children's story. This is where I'm at. IDGAF. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:49:12 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *Putting lawyer hat on and pretending to be one* TLDR - the "law" as it applies to this incident is about as clear as mud and open to interpretation by legal scholars Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court pdf https://i.imgur.com/h4X25eb.png Would anyone get prosecuted for this incident? Maybe but probably not. Would the drone operator/s get convicted if some authority did decide to prosecute? Probably not. Were the drone operators retarded in publishing this? Yup. The text of the statute would say "having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;" - In this particular instance, would the soldier who was wounded with the first drone grenade drop, having surrendered after being wounded, no visible weapons in hand be considered as "having no longer means of defense?" Article 8, 2(B)(VI) Herein lies the problem - there was a video released recently about a Russian soldier "having surrendered" - BUT ended up chucking a grenade at the Ukrainians once they were close. Someone here for sure has a link to this video that they could probably post. This would violate Article 8 2(B)(IX) - "Killing or wounding treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;" So given recent events that Ukrainian forces have legitimately experienced, there is what I would suspect some leeway in regards to accepting "surrendering enemy soldiers." This is due to the interpretation of feasibility in accepting the surrender. In this incident, was it feasible for the drone operator to accept the surrender? (edit to add - not related, but one of the interesting ones to me was the 2(B)(VIII) about the deportation of populations that Russia has for sure violated, didn't realize things about deportation of populations was specified in the statute) United States DoD Law of War Manual https://i.imgur.com/h8oPPMY.png Oslo Manual on Select Topics of the Law of Armed Conflict https://i.imgur.com/vgTH5LA.png Quote HistoryQuoted: *Putting lawyer hat on and pretending to be one* TLDR - the "law" as it applies to this incident is about as clear as mud and open to interpretation by legal scholars Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court pdf https://i.imgur.com/h4X25eb.png Would anyone get prosecuted for this incident? Maybe but probably not. Would the drone operator/s get convicted if some authority did decide to prosecute? Probably not. Were the drone operators retarded in publishing this? Yup. Quoted: Let's consider this. It seems like the argument that this was wrong goes something like this: if you're about to be blown up, you put your hands up and act like you surrender. If you're not about to be blown up, you just carry on engaging in combat operations. So you're not a fair target if your hands are up? How does that work? I need to change my magazine: I put my hands up, and I'm off limits, then I can go back to fighting when I'm done. Is that it? Is that a serious position that GD wants to defend? Where is that Tweet pointing out the impetus and purpose of Russian disinfo? The text of the statute would say "having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;" - In this particular instance, would the soldier who was wounded with the first drone grenade drop, having surrendered after being wounded, no visible weapons in hand be considered as "having no longer means of defense?" Article 8, 2(B)(VI) Herein lies the problem - there was a video released recently about a Russian soldier "having surrendered" - BUT ended up chucking a grenade at the Ukrainians once they were close. Someone here for sure has a link to this video that they could probably post. This would violate Article 8 2(B)(IX) - "Killing or wounding treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;" So given recent events that Ukrainian forces have legitimately experienced, there is what I would suspect some leeway in regards to accepting "surrendering enemy soldiers." This is due to the interpretation of feasibility in accepting the surrender. In this incident, was it feasible for the drone operator to accept the surrender? (edit to add - not related, but one of the interesting ones to me was the 2(B)(VIII) about the deportation of populations that Russia has for sure violated, didn't realize things about deportation of populations was specified in the statute) United States DoD Law of War Manual https://i.imgur.com/h8oPPMY.png Oslo Manual on Select Topics of the Law of Armed Conflict https://i.imgur.com/vgTH5LA.png Exactly. Not a war crime. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:52:11 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is this a war crime I noticed the op didn't cover: Russian soldiers posting videos of them raping children Cutting the cock and balls off a captured Ukrainian soldier beheading another guy mass graves and torture chambers in Russian controlled areas But damn them for dropping munitions on a guy waving at a drone who was not hors de combat Sex crime is a staple in Slavworld. GD loves them some Ukrainian porn and doesn’t even realize how much of it coerced. The Donbas suffered some really prolific rape culture from the Ukrainian side during the last 10 years….but that’s not discussed, shhh! |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:54:02 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I woke up tomorrow and china/russia/nork/canada had soldiers on US soil there is a good I would do a lot worse This 100% |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:54:31 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck yea that is OK. I bet most of their citizens were joyous on December 7th 1941. If they became remorseful as the war went on it was only because they realized they might lose, not because they felt guilty. Also the Japanese had industry everywhere on their island. There wasn't (and even to this day isn't) a super clear delimitation of this area is for war production and this area is for living. A lot of little shops all around Japan fed larger factories with barrels, ammunition, and parts. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346870/battleship-attack-Pearl-Harbor-Japanese--2963424.JPG Absolutely correct. All the hand wringers regarding our actions in Japan can fuck off. My dad was a Marine and witnessed the atrocities the Japanese subjected his fellow Marines to. This country used to practice Total War-hit the enemy until he can't take it anymore. God help us if WW3 ever kicks off because the milquetoasts of today couldn't handle it. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:57:58 AM EST
[#31]
He wasn’t surrendering, he was begging. Oh well.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:59:39 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Under the Geneva and Hague conventions, as well as the laws and customs of war, the bombing of Japan was a legitimate action. The US didn't machine guns Japanese sailors in the water (the Japanese did, and behead US sailors pulled from the water). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: GD: FUCK YEAH FIREBOMB THE REST OF JAPAN AND NUKE THEM AGAIN FOR GOOD MEASURE Also GD: bUt ThE mEaN uKrAiNiAn DiD a WaRcRiMe  Under the Geneva and Hague conventions, as well as the laws and customs of war, the bombing of Japan was a legitimate action. The US didn't machine guns Japanese sailors in the water (the Japanese did, and behead US sailors pulled from the water). Actually, the US DID do that. Quite often actually. Guess how Karl Dönitz was able to avoid the gallow. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:01:25 PM EST
[#33]
This is silly.
I wonder how many Taliban or Iraqis came to regret their life choices and reassess where they stood on the whole matter between the first and second JDAM to impact their position. Betcha after about the fifth TOW hit the house Uday was ready to confess all his sins and start life anew a changed man. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:02:03 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This country used to practice Total War-hit the enemy until he can't take it anymore. God help us if WW3 ever kicks off because the milquetoasts of today couldn't handle it. This, too. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:04:05 PM EST
[#35]
The only thing wrong with that video is it needed a bigger bomb to drop.
Fuck the Russians, individually and collectively.  |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:09:47 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let’s make a deal. I’ll keep apologizing for Ukraine as long as you keep apologizing for a pedophile  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:10:39 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably the same thing Ukranian civilians did in Bucha when the Russians came through before they were killed. Fuck the Russians. Are you referring to the dead Ukrainian civilians found laying murdered in the streets of Bucha, who also miraculously moved so the liberating convoy of Ukranian vehicles wouldn’t run over their extremities? Or are you referring to something else, which isn’t Ukranian propaganda? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:11:06 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems like a waste of the extra grenades. He was probably wounded, i would have found another target. Maybe get lucky and find some supplies piled up that could be blown up. Or your guys stumble upon him and he smokes a couple of them. Also, I’d love to be able to move like that without being injured, let alone with a leg injury like he pretended to have. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:14:13 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They knew the car was transporting wounded because they're the ones who wounded them. The drone made a drop and went back for a reload. When it came back the soldiers were bandaged up and trying to load into the car that got targeted. Clearly marked or not, they knew the soldiers were fleeing for medical aid. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They’ve been doing it from the start don’t care that much but I do care that if that was a uk or us drone operator they’d probably be charged Yeah, the popular "sunroof" video was proof of that. The second drop on it was them very clearly targeting a vehicle that was attempting to transport wounded to receive medical care (which they knew because the first drop is what wounded them). That said, it's hard to blame them. If someone kicks down your door, you use any means necessary to end the threat. The Russians don't get to invade then play the victim. And on your first paragraph, does that logic apply to the conduct captured in the infamous wikileaks footage of the Apache lighting up the guy with the minivan picking up wounded? Unless the van or the "clearly targeted" vehicle in your case are clearly placarded as medical/non-combatant personnel, I'd say that neither are war crimes, but it's something to look at. Again, not something to be bragging about on social media. They knew the car was transporting wounded because they're the ones who wounded them. The drone made a drop and went back for a reload. When it came back the soldiers were bandaged up and trying to load into the car that got targeted. Clearly marked or not, they knew the soldiers were fleeing for medical aid. Not a JAG, nor an expert on the law of armed conflict, but their conduct doesn't look like surrendering, it sounds like they're retreating. It also sounds like the vehicle carrying them wasn't clearly id'd as an ambulance/non-combatant/. Absent both of those things, I don't see a problem. Killing retreating enemy isn't a war crime. Killing surrendering enemy is. So is killing wounded enemy in a marked ambulance. Shrug. These things happen. We have the ethics we can afford, and we've been fortunate enough in our conflicts to be able to afford a lot. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:17:12 PM EST
[#40]
Not a war crime. The only way it would be is if the Ukes would have captured that ground and commenced killing wounded on ground they had taken...You can kill all the wounded your want until you take the ground they're on. It's that simple.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:21:04 PM EST
[#41]
Several cases of USAAF (and Luftwaffe) Pilots trying sucessfully to collapse enemy parachutes with the backwash from their propellers.
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:24:01 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: is it common practice or good munitions inventory management to use 2-3 small bombs to take out a single soldier? I guess it is, if someone is writing blank checks to fund your war party. Yes. $30 grenades x3 = 1 dead pidor. Do you think Russia can replace him for $90? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:25:10 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you think Russia can replace him for $90?
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:25:39 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want a list of Russian and Ukrainian war crimes dating back over 90 years? Both sides are brutal. Both sides when not friends seem to take great pleasure in raping, torturing and generally murdering the other side. The squabble between Ukraine and Russia isnt new..nor is the hate. Both sides in WW2 had Nazi units.. RONA and the Galicians to name a few. Now it seems they are at it again with the Galicians volunteers and whats left of the Wagner group and other nasty shitbags Its all fine and well to hate the Russians.. but to say the Ukrainians are any better is laughable.. other than language and some culture.. who can tell them apart at times due to their barbarity.. This war may end one day... but the hate will continue and in time im sure they will both be back at it again. I’ll take the side that doesn’t have nukes pointed at me. ?? |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:27:53 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you referring to the dead Ukrainian civilians found laying murdered in the streets of Bucha, who also miraculously moved so the liberating convoy of Ukranian vehicles wouldn’t run over their extremities? Or are you referring to something else, which isn’t Ukranian propaganda? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Probably the same thing Ukranian civilians did in Bucha when the Russians came through before they were killed. Fuck the Russians. Are you referring to the dead Ukrainian civilians found laying murdered in the streets of Bucha, who also miraculously moved so the liberating convoy of Ukranian vehicles wouldn’t run over their extremities? Or are you referring to something else, which isn’t Ukranian propaganda? I don't think they're moving.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:29:24 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you referring to the dead Ukrainian civilians found laying murdered in the streets of Bucha, who also miraculously moved so the liberating convoy of Ukranian vehicles wouldn’t run over their extremities? Or are you referring to something else, which isn’t Ukranian propaganda? Looooooooong time ago debunked russian propaganda lie. But keep repeating it. It makes you look special. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:31:08 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually, the US DID do that. Quite often actually. Guess how Karl Dönitz was able to avoid the gallow. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: GD: FUCK YEAH FIREBOMB THE REST OF JAPAN AND NUKE THEM AGAIN FOR GOOD MEASURE Also GD: bUt ThE mEaN uKrAiNiAn DiD a WaRcRiMe Under the Geneva and Hague conventions, as well as the laws and customs of war, the bombing of Japan was a legitimate action. The US didn't machine guns Japanese sailors in the water (the Japanese did, and behead US sailors pulled from the water). Actually, the US DID do that. Quite often actually. Guess how Karl Dönitz was able to avoid the gallow. By showing that US submarines sunk merchant shipping without warning and without an SOS given afterwards or any attempt at rescue. Not by showing that the US crews machine gunned merchants and swimming helpless men in the water. Laconia shows that wasn't tolerated from the Germans. There were US naval personnel who did machine gun survivors. Wahoo was infamous for it. Part of the problem is that Japanese did not usually surrender and would occasionally feign surrender in an effort to kill more Americans. All it takes is one or two good stories to remove the desire to want to try and take any prisoners. You get the ethics you can afford. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:31:22 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they were in (insert your state here) raping and killing Americans, would you still feel the same way about Geneva conventions? Honest question. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:31:44 PM EST
[#49]
I normally enjoy reading OPs posts but I’m not going to rage against Ukrainians committing “war crimes” against Russian invaders. I wouldn’t advocate for it on humanitarian grounds, but I won’t blame the Ukrainians defending their country from those actively engaged in war crimes themselves.
At least the Ukrainians are defending their homes and families. None of this would be happening if the Russians didn’t invade to begin with. It would all end tomorrow if the Russians went home. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 12:32:34 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: *Putting lawyer hat on and pretending to be one* TLDR - the "law" as it applies to this incident is about as clear as mud and open to interpretation by legal scholars Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court pdf https://i.imgur.com/h4X25eb.png Would anyone get prosecuted for this incident? Maybe but probably not. Would the drone operator/s get convicted if some authority did decide to prosecute? Probably not. Were the drone operators retarded in publishing this? Yup. The text of the statute would say "having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;" - In this particular instance, would the soldier who was wounded with the first drone grenade drop, having surrendered after being wounded, no visible weapons in hand be considered as "having no longer means of defense?" Article 8, 2(B)(VI) Herein lies the problem - there was a video released recently about a Russian soldier "having surrendered" - BUT ended up chucking a grenade at the Ukrainians once they were close. Someone here for sure has a link to this video that they could probably post. That incident would violate Article 8 2(B)(IX) - "Killing or wounding treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;" So given recent events that Ukrainian forces have legitimately experienced, there is what I would suspect some leeway in regards to accepting "surrendering enemy soldiers." This is due to the interpretation of feasibility in accepting the surrender. In this incident, was it feasible for the drone operator to accept the surrender? (edit to add - not related, but one of the interesting ones to me was the 2(B)(VIII) about the deportation of populations that Russia has for sure violated, didn't realize things about deportation of populations was specified in the statute) United States DoD Law of War Manual https://i.imgur.com/h8oPPMY.png Oslo Manual on Select Topics of the Law of Armed Conflict https://i.imgur.com/vgTH5LA.png Thank you for looking that up and posting details. Clearly, the OP is completely wrong and there is no war crime, as there was no possibility of taking the combatant into custody. Not to mention the ambiguity of whether the act of surrender was sincere, given he knew there was no possibility of being taken into control and custody. I wonder if OP will amend the thread title and rephrase? Doubtful. As noted above, war crimes only matter to some in GD if they are committed by Ukrainians. |
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