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Posted: 5/10/2004 3:51:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 3:53:03 PM EST by cmjohnson]
Heard at this weekend's local gunshow:
"Bush may sign an Executive Order keeping the assault weapons ban in place."

For one, I believe that would be illegal. An EO has certain limits, and I'm fairly sure that it can't be used to extend a law that has been repealed, and in fact, the sunset IS an automatic repeal.


I call bullshit on the whole EO idea, though. He'd HAVE to know that such an action would guarantee absolutely that he'd lose the vote of many gun owners who consider his gun issues stance to be his ONLY saving grace in this election.

And if he loses the gun owners, he WILL lose the election. Bush knows this, and I'm certain of it.

It's a pretty alarming rumor, though, and it has got me thinking.

If hell freezes over and Bush DOES do that, then I'm writing in Ron Paul on the ballot. Much as I utterly despise Kerry, if Bush would issue THAT EO, then that's the straw that breaks this camel's back and I could NOT vote for him. He'd be as bad then as Kerry, and neither would get my vote.


Some of you will remember that I stated I'd vote for Bush no matter what because Kerry is the unthinkable option. Well, I never imagined this scenario, and if it were to come true, Bush would be equally as unthinkable an option. Fooked either way.


If it comes to that, write in Ron Paul, the Texas Representative, as your write-in candidate.

But first, hope that this rumor has no basis in fact and that it never will.


CJ

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 3:52:37 PM EST
I met a lot of SEALs at the last gunshow, too
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 3:52:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 3:54:10 PM EST by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 3:56:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:
I met a lot of SEALs at the last gunshow, too



did you buy the preban AR he was trying to sell you?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:05:19 PM EST
Highly unlikely. Bush's support for the AWB seems to be merely a way for him to play both sides of the fence - saying he'll support it, but probably putting pressure behind the scenes on Congress not to bring it up again.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:06:02 PM EST
Yeah, one of the guys at the range told me there isn't a chance of the AWB going away. So alas, it must be true.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:09:03 PM EST
Actually, it's possible GWB could sign an EO that bans the mfr of assault weapons. Cliton signed an EO that banned the import of various gun parts, .50 barrels, etc. Don't know the law well enough to verify that. He would regret it, Chaney knows it as does most other polits. Look for the AWB to become a state level issue as in Kali. just as NFA is banned in many states.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:12:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 4:12:59 PM EST by eaglebite]

Originally Posted By jblachly:
I met a lot of SEALs at the last gunshow, too



Yes, the gun shows are always full of the millions and millions of SEALs in the country, in fact, they always being supplied with the latest in SEAL weaponry and are personally informed of gun issues by the president himself!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:22:52 PM EST
I think the President saw the Million , I mean 3000 people show up for the march and realizes legitimate guns owners support him. He would not let us down like that.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:26:13 PM EST
...er, was this guy at the gunshow trying to unload a preban on you when he said that?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:36:53 PM EST
lol!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:38:39 PM EST
I will let you know in about..... 127 days.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:40:36 PM EST
Was he trying to sell you some $25 pre ban AR 15 magazines? Did he have a large stock he was trying to unload before the price fell to $10 ea?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:43:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

I call bullshit on the whole EO idea, though. He'd HAVE to know that such an action would guarantee absolutely that he'd lose the vote of many gun owners who consider his gun issues stance to be his ONLY saving grace in this election.




Gun owners that believe in "assault weapon" ownership comprise a VERY small minority of voters. dubya can toss them aside and gain many many more "mainstream" supporters who believe in reasonable gun control.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:44:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

I call bullshit on the whole EO idea, though. He'd HAVE to know that such an action would guarantee absolutely that he'd lose the vote of many gun owners who consider his gun issues stance to be his ONLY saving grace in this election.




Gun owners that believe in "assault weapon" ownership comprise a VERY small minority of voters. dubya can toss them aside and gain many many more "mainstream" supporters who believe in reasonable gun control.



For posterity, one way or the other.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 4:46:44 PM EST
The 1989 ban on importing semi auto rifles from foreign countries is an Executive Order. I dont think it's an act of Congress.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:24:50 PM EST
I don't think he could do it by executive order.

Executive orders can only direct departments of the federal government on how to apply laws that have already been passed.

They cannot create new laws.

I am not a lawyer, but that's how I understand it.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:30:41 PM EST
The 69 ban would probably be overturned if someone wanted to spend the money. An E.O. ban on A.W.'s would be thrown out and also cost Bush the election while picking up no votes.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:30:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:

I call bullshit on the whole EO idea, though. He'd HAVE to know that such an action would guarantee absolutely that he'd lose the vote of many gun owners who consider his gun issues stance to be his ONLY saving grace in this election.




Gun owners that believe in "assault weapon" ownership comprise a VERY small minority of voters. dubya can toss them aside and gain many many more "mainstream" supporters who believe in reasonable gun control.



For posterity, one way or the other.





I hope you meant for Imbro's post cause thats why I'm ROTFLMFAO!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:33:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:33:40 PM EST

"Bush may sign an Executive Order keeping the assault weapons ban in place."


Then BOTH he and his DADDY will be 1 term Presidents!

Don't PISS down my back and tell me "It's raining".

Bush signs an AWB reauthorization?........"Well..........bye!"
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:38:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 5:42:10 PM EST by Andreuha]

Originally Posted By Triumph955i:

Originally Posted By jblachly:
I met a lot of SEALs at the last gunshow, too



did you buy the preban AR he was trying to sell you?



I don't know about you, but I got one of them incredible deals on a NIB Navy Sealz MP5. 'Speshul Weaponz' marked, so it's gotta be special! I mean, the guy at the counter said the SeAlZ use it ALL THE TIME in Afghanistan, Chechnya,and Iraq! The thing is sssooo sweet, It's even got extra-high-speed duct tape all over, and super glue to make it extra sturdy!

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:40:50 PM EST

Actually, it's possible GWB could sign an EO that bans the mfr of assault weapons.


Wrong. There has to be some law to base an EO on. For example, the '89 import ban was a reinterpretation of what the 1968 Gun Control Act's "sporting use" clause. The clause only applies to imported firearms, and what "sporting use" is defined as wasn't really defined in the original bill, it was left up to the BATF to define. The '89 import ban was basically George I instructing the BATF to change their regulations to redefine sporting use to something that was more restrictive.

A president could not reinterpret the sporting use clause to affect domestically produced firearms, because the sporting use clause only affects imported firearms.

Look at it this way. If presidents could use EOs to ban firearms willy-nilly, don't you think Clinton wouldn't have just signed an EO to ban handguns or something similar?
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:44:55 PM EST
"Hehehe.....yeah, so you better buy a few of my products right now before he signs it!"
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 5:50:20 PM EST
My dog Fred, which is an excellent friend who I will allow in the house at times, told me today that he is extremely jealous of humans. He added that the lack of an opposable thumb issue really ticks him off! I tend to agree with his pontifications mostly, he's a lab.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:07:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By P806:
My dog Fred, which is an excellent friend who I will allow in the house at times, told me today that he is extremely jealous of humans.



Then he's obviously never met Imbroglio...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:07:06 PM EST
Yes, but mice are really in control of the entire world. We're just a little experiement to them. They're the ones with supreme intelligence...

Oh look!!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:14:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/10/2004 6:14:52 PM EST by HKocher]
I heard a rumor from a guy at a gun show that the Gov't puts mind control drugs into deodorant. Luckily noone at the show was wearing any that day...
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:25:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By HKocher:
I heard a rumor from a guy at a gun show that the Gov't puts mind control drugs into deodorant. Luckily noone at the show was wearing any that day...

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:28:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Heard at this weekend's local gunshow:
"Bush may sign an Executive Order keeping the assault weapons ban in place."

For one, I believe that would be illegal. An EO has certain limits, and I'm fairly sure that it can't be used to extend a law that has been repealed, and in fact, the sunset IS an automatic repeal.


I call bullshit on the whole EO idea, though. He'd HAVE to know that such an action would guarantee absolutely that he'd lose the vote of many gun owners who consider his gun issues stance to be his ONLY saving grace in this election.

And if he loses the gun owners, he WILL lose the election. Bush knows this, and I'm certain of it.

It's a pretty alarming rumor, though, and it has got me thinking.

If hell freezes over and Bush DOES do that, then I'm writing in Ron Paul on the ballot. Much as I utterly despise Kerry, if Bush would issue THAT EO, then that's the straw that breaks this camel's back and I could NOT vote for him. He'd be as bad then as Kerry, and neither would get my vote.


Some of you will remember that I stated I'd vote for Bush no matter what because Kerry is the unthinkable option. Well, I never imagined this scenario, and if it were to come true, Bush would be equally as unthinkable an option. Fooked either way.


If it comes to that, write in Ron Paul, the Texas Representative, as your write-in candidate.

But first, hope that this rumor has no basis in fact and that it never will.


CJ



Thanks for the info there CMJ. I know that your heart is in the right place. I as one of many would try to inflict terrible pain on GWB at the ballot box if he did that to us and it would surely send him back to Texas!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:30:11 PM EST
if GWB signs an executive order extending the AWB, i will never again post the Bush-Cheney pic or anything about pie.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 6:30:36 PM EST
Total BS.

If that could be done Klinton would've used it like a druken sailor.

.50 BMGs. Post bans, handguns, domestic guns, whole nine yards.

Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:05:41 PM EST
look, I find this as improbable as anything but with these buttholes in the congress, NOTHING surprises me.

I didn't think they would get the AssWep ban on the manufacturers protection act either but boom, it went right on there.

AnYtHiNg could happen,

CrashBurnRepeat
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:50:59 PM EST
I find that Handgun Control has better information than rumor control at gunshows.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 7:56:44 PM EST
Someone at that show needs to LAY OFF THE GLUE...

Executive Orders can only change how executive agencies interpret existing law. They cannot create new law.

There are 2 laws in place which allow gun control by executive order.

ONE pertains only to SHOTGUNS (68 Ammended NFA, 'Destructive Device' designation)

THE OTHER pertains ONLY to IMPORTED GUNS (68 GCA itself, 'sporting purposes' test).

DOMESTIC weapons of any type are immune to ban-by-EO at this time...

THIS IS WHY THE ANTIS ARE SO EAGER TO HAVE A 'SPORTING PURPOSES' TEST FOR DOMESTIC WEAPONS IN ANY NEW AWB - IT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO BAN-BY-EO IN THE FUTURE! THIS MUST NOT HAPPEN!
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:14:43 PM EST
Just how the fuck would some asswipe at a gun show know what EO was going to get signed? Why would you even bring it up? Please, some rumor at a gunshow????????????

Why you would even bother to post that shit is unfathomable.
Link Posted: 5/10/2004 11:32:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 12:25:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
...er, was this guy at the gunshow trying to unload a preban on you when he said that?


Exactly!
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 12:32:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
if GWB signs an executive order extending the AWB, i will never again post the Bush-Cheney pic or anything about pie.



Wow, that is a statement! No way it could be true now.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:25:07 AM EST


I didn't see any Seals at the last gunshow but did meet a Walrus.


Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:28:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:29:28 AM EST
I dont listen to much at the gunshows. But its been along time since we had a local gunshow.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:40:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:47:35 AM EST
Every time I see a thread like this I get the urge to tour the local shops and shows and smack about the forehead everyone who opens their mouth concerning the AWB in an effort to peddle their wares to idiotic gun owners. I'd also like to double-smack everyone who ever boght something due to these paranoia sales pitches.


I fear my hands would begin to hurt after a while, though.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:52:52 AM EST
He couldn't do it... The executive branch cannot make law, it can only change the way current law is reasonably interpreted. The '89 ban was originally an EO, and is based off an interpretation of 'sporting purposes' in the GCA of '68. This is one reason why the '68 is obviously unconstituional, but nobody really cares. Can you image the outcry if the freedom of religion was refined to say 'monothiestic purposes'?

The '94 dies at midnight on Sept 13, and no amount of re interpretation can change that.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:57:16 AM EST
Why not? That is how his dad banned the importation of some fine German firearms.

Before you flame me - I intend to vote for Bush. Unless he does something like this. I am a Libertarian at heart but vote Republican since they are the ones that can win.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 5:58:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Total BS.

If that could be done Klinton would've used it like a druken sailor.

.50 BMGs. Post bans, handguns, domestic guns, whole nine yards.




I agree.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:02:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By TUMOR:

"Bush may sign an Executive Order keeping the assault weapons ban in place."


Then BOTH he and his DADDY will be 1 term Presidents!

Don't PISS down my back and tell me "It's raining".

Bush signs an AWB reauthorization?........"Well..........bye!"



So then you'll vote for Kerry?
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:03:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By pazzo:
Why not? That is how his dad banned the importation of some fine German firearms.

Here's how:

The 1968 GCA had a 'sporting purposes' clause attached to the import of firearms. The Secretary of the Treasury gets to decide what's sporting and what's not. At the time, only MGs, etc.. were classified as non sporting, so they were cut off from IMPORT. Note that domestic production of NFA guns continued. Enter GHWB(and the "Drug War"), and the EO mandating that anything that fits the defintion of a "Semiautomatic Assault Weapon" be considered "Non sporting", and thus not importable. No law was changed, he only exploited some flexability in the 1968 GCA.
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:04:54 AM EST
Blah, my vote goes to Campybob.

Ben
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 6:06:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dan01:

I didn't see any Seals at the last gunshow but did meet a Walrus.





Paul McCartny was at a Gun Show?!?!?!

SGtar15
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