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Posted: 11/21/2008 3:55:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 3:57:29 AM EDT
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 3:57:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 4:07:59 AM EDT by southpaw67]
sounds like there may be another troop surge (support troops) if/when the contractors say a collective "Fuck that" and come home.



Former .mil contractor.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:13:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:13:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 4:14:02 AM EDT by friendlysniper]
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:17:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:19:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


Except we don't have indirect fire hitting our guys working on the utilities. And last time I checked, Americans don't run around trying to kill every foreign worker they see. Iraq is a warzone. Normal rules don't apply in warzones. Not to mention we have a decent legal system here if the foreign worker gets in trouble. In Iraq they just cut your head off in the middle of a soccer field.

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:22:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 4:22:37 AM EDT by SV650Squid]
Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


Except we don't have indirect fire hitting our guys working on the utilities. And last time I checked, Americans don't run around trying to kill every foreign worker they see. Iraq is a warzone. Normal rules don't apply in warzones. Not to mention we have a decent legal system here if the foreign worker gets in trouble. In Iraq they just cut your head off in the middle of a soccer field.



This.  I wouldn't do it if I was a civ contractor.

ETA: It won't matter much, Blackwater is already putting their navy together for the somali pirates
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:22:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


Middle Eastern nations  legal systems are totally corrupt. I would refuse to be a contractor in a nation where I was subject to the local "legal" system.

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:37:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


There will be no shortage.  If you thought the mall ninja influx was bad before...
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 4:50:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 4:58:55 AM EDT by Special-K]
Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


Except we don't have indirect fire hitting our guys working on the utilities. And last time I checked, Americans don't run around trying to kill every foreign worker they see. Iraq is a warzone. Normal rules don't apply in warzones. Not to mention we have a decent legal system here if the foreign worker gets in trouble. In Iraq they just cut your head off in the middle of a soccer field.





+1 to all three.

There's a huge difference between our system of law and their system of Sharia law.



-K
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 5:26:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


There will be no shortage.  If you thought the mall ninja influx was bad before...


yeah no shit. the companies wont pull out but smart contractors will. your company will cash uncle sam's check and throw you to the wolves if some shit goes down. the mall ninja invasion of iraq is pretty bad as it is. lots of deputy sherriffs and former army cooks running around with glocks and rifles playing war. in another year it will be unbearable.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 5:28:12 AM EDT
I bet this news gives the libtard fags a raging hardon.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 5:58:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


There will be no shortage.  If you thought the mall ninja influx was bad before...


Doesn't do much good earning decent six figures if you get shook down by Ahmed Al Law when you want to go home:  "We have a warrant for your arrest but you can pay an additional fee for an expedited hearing so you can make your flight tomorrow."
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 7:19:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


There will be no shortage.  If you thought the mall ninja influx was bad before...


Doesn't do much good earning decent six figures if you get shook down by Ahmed Al Law when you want to go home:  "We have a warrant for your arrest but you can pay an additional fee for an expedited hearing so you can make your flight tomorrow."


Read DvlDog's comment two above yours.

yeah no shit. the companies wont pull out but smart contractors will. your company will cash uncle sam's check and throw you to the wolves if some shit goes down. the mall ninja invasion of iraq is pretty bad as it is. lots of deputy sherriffs and former army cooks running around with glocks and rifles playing war. in another year it will be unbearable.


First of all, the vast majority of Americans and third country nationals employed in Iraq by firms that are US government contractors are not high-speed, low drag, machine-gunning toting, 5.11-wearing ex-DevGru / CAG / SF / Ranger / SEAL security "contractors".

This category also includes the line cooks and plumbers from KBR and the mail room workers and the LAN cable pullers, etc.  Many of these are TCNs.

Additionally, the vast majority of security "contractors" are TCNs who work static security - like South Americans or Africans working for Blackwater or Aegis or whoever at the gates of various bases around Baghdad.  These guys are pretty much just security guards.  Their US citizen or Brit / Aussie / Canadian shift boss isn't some high-speed, low drag, machine-gunning toting, 5.11-wearing ex-DevGru / CAG / SF / Ranger / Para Regiment / SAS / SBS / SEAL-type either.  He's probably the ex-deputy sheriff or Army cook DvlDog mentioned (hey, there are Marine cooks too!).

There's also lots of just plain former Army and Marine guys working security for companies with Corps of Engineer projects, etc.

Relatively few people work the aggressive security contracts like the State Department's WPPS contract.

There are "contractors" in Iraq making far less than "six figures", though its usually good money for what they do - like KBR mechanics supervising the motor pool for $90K, when they made $35K back in Texas - or South American former military working gate guard duty for $24-36K a year (or at least promised that much) - or a Filipino cook making $24K... etc.

I think we'll see that you have to do something spectacularly dumb, like be a Blackwater guard that gets drunk and shoots (without provocation) an Iraqi guard at the Iraqi vice-president's house to find yourself prosecuted by the Iraqis.  And Andrew Moonen wasn't a high-speed, low drag, machine-gunning toting, 5.11-wearing ex-DevGru / CAG / SF / Ranger / SEAL guy - he was pretty much a former 82nd Airborne Division guy who seems to be on his way to being a mall ninja.

Personally, he (Moonen) should have been turned over to the Iraqis for his stupid shit.


Link Posted: 11/21/2008 8:13:53 AM EDT
Oda:
The point isn't that every contractor is or is not  HSLD. I simply wouldn't work in such a country and be subject to the whims of that nations legal system , knowing how bad it is. My life is worth more than the paycheck in that case.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 8:16:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Frank_The_Tank:
I bet this news gives the libtard fags a raging hardon.


They lost their immunity in a bathhouse.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:25:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Oda:
The point isn't that every contractor is or is not  HSLD. I simply wouldn't work in such a country and be subject to the whims of that nations legal system , knowing how bad it is. My life is worth more than the paycheck in that case.


Unfortunately, that's pretty much the case in every country outside of the US and Canada and I'm not really that confident about the US and Canadian "legal system" unless you've got a ton of money or a crackerjack attorney or both.  Maybe Australia, too.

Name me any country other than Afghanistan and (up until now) Iraq where Americans not in the military could commit crimes and just walk away with no repercussions?  Where Americans not in the military are immune from the local legal system?  

The Iraqi "legal system" is no more or less corrupt than any second world or fourth world legal system (the actual term "third world" refers to the Soviet Union nd the Warsaw Pact, now all gone except Cuba).

So, basically, if you want to be avoid being subject to the whims of a bad legal system, you can't leave the US (and even then, there's Chicago, NOLA, etc.).

Jackasses like Moonen screwed the pooch for everyone - not the Iraqis.  

If "Joe the Plumber" goes to Iraq for KBR, does his job and doesn't murder someone, rob the Central Bank of Iraq (and that happened), try to smuggle out antiquities, etc., he's not going to get fucked with.

On the other hand, if "Joe the Plumber" thinks its "no law land" and tokes up, gets his drink on, runs over Iraqi kids, has illegal weapons, kidnaps women and rapes them, shoots people for shits and grins, etc., then he's going to see the inside of Abu Gharib.  And why shouldn't he?

When peace begins to dawn, its not a "kill'em all and let Allah sort it out" place anymore.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:41:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DvlDog:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


There will be no shortage.  If you thought the mall ninja influx was bad before...


yeah no shit. the companies wont pull out but smart contractors will. your company will cash uncle sam's check and throw you to the wolves if some shit goes down. the mall ninja invasion of iraq is pretty bad as it is. lots of deputy sherriffs and former army cooks running around with glocks and rifles playing war. in another year it will be unbearable.


Obama will have us out of Iraq in a year

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:43:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 9:46:19 AM EDT by sherrick13]
If I was there, I would quit and come home.  

IN NO FUCKING WAY would I be liable to Iraqi law as a .mil contractor.


I was a little nervous about being a tourist in Morocco.  Not much, they don't want to fuck with tourists, but I did do a fuck up that my badge got me out of.  I got to see the inside of a police station as a tour instead.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:48:38 AM EDT


Is there any good news to be had lately?
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:55:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
If I was there, I would quit and come home.  

IN NO FUCKING WAY would I be liable to Iraqi law as a .mil contractor.


I was a little nervous about being a tourist in Morocco.  Not much, they don't want to fuck with tourists, but I did do a fuck up that my badge got me out of.  I got to see the inside of a police station as a tour instead.


So how do you like your new rug?
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:56:37 AM EDT
Doesn't matter if Americans didn't want to work for the contractors there. As fast as Iraq could kill our Fillipino TCN's we could have more volunteering to go in country than Iraq could kill off.

For far less than American workers.

We're getting 12-20,000 coming over here on Guam under H2 visas to work for DOD. Fillipino's will be the majority on that day when they arrive......if they want to they will be able to take over the island of Guam. They will be the majority.

Same tactic could be used in Iraq.

Send enough Fillipino's in country and they can take it over!

ha ha ha ha! Fillapina's are muslims too.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:03:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 10:21:52 AM EDT by tommytrauma]
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


So you'd have no problem with US military members being subject to Iraqi law then either, right? After all, this came about due to security contractors performing an essentially military function responding in a military IAD way to a perceived military attack. Their employer was the US Goverment, their role was protecting US personel, just like active duty militry in the same situation. If they should be held to the standards of Iraqi law, why shouldn't every single military unit involved in a firefight?

You ever serve? You ever deploy? Would you want to be held to foreign civillian legal standards in the middle of a firefight? Should all collateral damage resulting in death result in murder charges?

I guess next you'll tell me how we shouldn't protect Americal military troops from international tibunals.

You do realise that under Shari'a law, Non-muslems can't even testify, right?

Do you think American female contractors should be subject to criminal punishment if they act improperly in the eye of the religious police by commiting a henious act such as being alone with a male shopkeeper? What if she was instead found to be accompanying another contractor who happened to be male on an errand?

Should we allow a female American contractor to be stoned to death if she commits the offense of allowing herself to be raped?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece

A 37-year-old American businesswoman and married mother of three is seeking justice after she was thrown in jail by Saudi Arabia's religious police for sitting with a male colleague at a Starbucks coffee shop in Riyadh.

Yara, who does not want her last name published for fear of retribution, was bruised and crying when she was freed from a day in prison after she was strip-searched, threatened and forced to sign false confessions by the Kingdom's “Mutaween” police.

Her story offers a rare first-hand glimpse of the discrimination faced by women living in Saudi Arabia. In her first interview with the foreign press, Yara told The Times that she would remain in Saudi Arabia to challenge its harsh enforcement of conservative Islam rather than return to America.

“If I want to make a difference I have to stick around. If I leave they win. I can't just surrender to the terrorist acts of these people,” said Yara, who moved to Jeddah eight years ago with her husband, a prominent businessman.

Her ordeal began with a routine visit to the new Riyadh offices of her finance company, where she is a managing partner.

The electricity temporarily cut out, so Yara and her colleagues — who are all men — went to a nearby Starbucks to use its wireless internet.

She sat in a curtained booth with her business partner in the café's “family” area, the only seats where men and women are allowed to mix.

For Yara, it was a matter of convenience. But in Saudi Arabia, public contact between unrelated men and women is strictly prohibited.

“Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked ‘Why are you here together?'. I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin,” recalled Yara, who wears an abaya and headscarf, like most Saudi women.

The men were from Saudi Arabia's Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, a police force of several thousand men charged with enforcing dress codes, sex segregation and the observance of prayers.

Yara, whose parents are Jordanian and grew up in Salt Lake City, once believed that life in Saudi Arabia was becoming more liberal. But on Monday the religious police took her mobile phone, pushed her into a cab and drove her to Malaz prison in Riyadh. She was interrogated, strip-searched and forced to sign and fingerprint a series of confessions pleading guilty to her “crime”.

“They took me into a filthy bathroom, full of water and dirt. They made me take off my clothes and squat and they threw my clothes in this slush and made me put them back on,” she said. Eventually she was taken before a judge.

“He said 'You are sinful and you are going to burn in hell'. I told him I was sorry. I was very submissive. I had given up. I felt hopeless,” she said.

Yara's husband, Hatim, used his political contacts in Jeddah to track her whereabouts. He was able to secure her release.

“I was lucky. I met other women in that prison who don't have the connections I did,” she said. Her story has received rare coverage in Saudi Arabia, where the press has been sharply critical of the police.

Yara was visited yesterday by officials from the American Embassy, who promised they would file a report.

An embassy official told The Times that it was being treated as “an internal Saudi matter” and refused to comment on her case.

Tough justice

— Saudi Arabia’s Mutaween has 10,000 members in almost 500 offices

— Ahmad al-Bluwi, 50, died in custody in 2007 in the city of Tabuk after he invited a woman outside his immediate family into his car

— In 2007 the victim of a gang rape was sentenced to 200 lashes and six years in jail for having been in an unrelated man’s car at the time. She was pardoned by King Abdullah, although he maintained the sentence had been fair


Yeah, let's make American contractors worknig for the American goverment subject to this crap.

You married? Want your wife subject to these "laws"? Sister? Daughter?


Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:27:11 AM EDT
That is just plain fucked up. Well, Astan is jumping now. Fuck Iraq!
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 10:38:08 AM EDT
Do NOT want. Screw that.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:33:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Oda:
The point isn't that every contractor is or is not  HSLD. I simply wouldn't work in such a country and be subject to the whims of that nations legal system , knowing how bad it is. My life is worth more than the paycheck in that case.


Unfortunately, that's pretty much the case in every country outside of the US and Canada and I'm not really that confident about the US and Canadian "legal system" unless you've got a ton of money or a crackerjack attorney or both.  Maybe Australia, too.

Name me any country other than Afghanistan and (up until now) Iraq where Americans not in the military could commit crimes and just walk away with no repercussions?  Where Americans not in the military are immune from the local legal system?  

The Iraqi "legal system" is no more or less corrupt than any second world or fourth world legal system (the actual term "third world" refers to the Soviet Union nd the Warsaw Pact, now all gone except Cuba).

So, basically, if you want to be avoid being subject to the whims of a bad legal system, you can't leave the US (and even then, there's Chicago, NOLA, etc.).

Jackasses like Moonen screwed the pooch for everyone - not the Iraqis.  

If "Joe the Plumber" goes to Iraq for KBR, does his job and doesn't murder someone, rob the Central Bank of Iraq (and that happened), try to smuggle out antiquities, etc., he's not going to get fucked with.

On the other hand, if "Joe the Plumber" thinks its "no law land" and tokes up, gets his drink on, runs over Iraqi kids, has illegal weapons, kidnaps women and rapes them, shoots people for shits and grins, etc., then he's going to see the inside of Abu Gharib.  And why shouldn't he?

When peace begins to dawn, its not a "kill'em all and let Allah sort it out" place anymore.


+1
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:40:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:

The Iraqi "legal system" is no more or less corrupt than any second world or fourth world legal system (the actual term "third world" refers to the Soviet Union nd the Warsaw Pact, now all gone except Cuba).


You got this exactly wrong.  Second world refers to the Communist block countries, third world refers to underdeveloped nations.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:41:07 AM EDT


I don't give a shit about the contractors but US troops also become subservient to Iraqi law and that I do care about.





5sub



With any luck, Iraq will turn down the negotiated agreement, our troops will be confined to barracks at midnight on 12/31/08 until we can get them the hell out of Iraq.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:49:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By yekimak:
Originally Posted By Frank_The_Tank:
I bet this news gives the libtard fags a raging hardon.


They lost their immunity in a bathhouse.





-Foxxz
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 11:58:12 AM EDT
So that's the end of contract work there then.  No way, even in frozen hell, would I take on that kind of job where local tribal leaders can end up with me in some show trial.  People equating the legal system here and there must be able to see their boogers with their heads that far up their asses.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 12:00:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

I don't give a shit about the contractors but US troops also become subservient to Iraqi law and that I do care about.




So vets making a living getting shot at and working for one organization you don't give a shit about but active duty in the other organization you do?

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 12:24:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Grunteled:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

I don't give a shit about the contractors but US troops also become subservient to Iraqi law and that I do care about.




So vets making a living getting shot at and working for one organization you don't give a shit about but active duty in the other organization you do?





Typical mouth in overdrive while brain is still in park by him.

Link Posted: 11/21/2008 2:25:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2008 2:26:46 PM EDT by tommytrauma]
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Oda:
The point isn't that every contractor is or is not  HSLD. I simply wouldn't work in such a country and be subject to the whims of that nations legal system , knowing how bad it is. My life is worth more than the paycheck in that case.


Unfortunately, that's pretty much the case in every country outside of the US and Canada and I'm not really that confident about the US and Canadian "legal system" unless you've got a ton of money or a crackerjack attorney or both.  Maybe Australia, too.

Name me any country other than Afghanistan and (up until now) Iraq where Americans not in the military could commit crimes and just walk away with no repercussions?  Where Americans not in the military are immune from the local legal system?  

The Iraqi "legal system" is no more or less corrupt than any second world or fourth world legal system (the actual term "third world" refers to the Soviet Union nd the Warsaw Pact, now all gone except Cuba).

So, basically, if you want to be avoid being subject to the whims of a bad legal system, you can't leave the US (and even then, there's Chicago, NOLA, etc.).

Jackasses like Moonen screwed the pooch for everyone - not the Iraqis.  

If "Joe the Plumber" goes to Iraq for KBR, does his job and doesn't murder someone, rob the Central Bank of Iraq (and that happened), try to smuggle out antiquities, etc., he's not going to get fucked with.

On the other hand, if "Joe the Plumber" thinks its "no law land" and tokes up, gets his drink on, runs over Iraqi kids, has illegal weapons, kidnaps women and rapes them, shoots people for shits and grins, etc., then he's going to see the inside of Abu Gharib.  And why shouldn't he?

When peace begins to dawn, its not a "kill'em all and let Allah sort it out" place anymore.


It would appear to me that we had a mechanism in place already.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/civucmj.htm

Jan 8 2007
U.S. Military Contractors operating in combat zones are now subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Congress quietly made this change as part of the FY 2007 Military Authorization Act.



Link Posted: 11/21/2008 6:35:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Oda:
The point isn't that every contractor is or is not  HSLD. I simply wouldn't work in such a country and be subject to the whims of that nations legal system , knowing how bad it is. My life is worth more than the paycheck in that case.


Unfortunately, that's pretty much the case in every country outside of the US and Canada and I'm not really that confident about the US and Canadian "legal system" unless you've got a ton of money or a crackerjack attorney or both.  Maybe Australia, too.



In Afghanistan, most legal matters don't go through the actual court system. They are handled by tribal elders in most cases. We are trying to change that by reforming the police and the judicial system. As it stands now though, guilt or innocence is determined by who brings the fatter wallet to court. You can talk bad all you want about the problems of the US legal system, butw e are not that bad by comparison.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:08:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Drakich:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:

The Iraqi "legal system" is no more or less corrupt than any second world or fourth world legal system (the actual term "third world" refers to the Soviet Union nd the Warsaw Pact, now all gone except Cuba).


You got this exactly wrong.  Second world refers to the Communist block countries, third world refers to underdeveloped nations.


We both got it wrong.

You are right - "second world" refers to the Communist "command economy countries"; but "third world" refers to the second tier more-or-less free market economies, while "fourth world" refers to the developing world.

Brazil is a "third world" economy.  Zimbabwe is a "fourth world" economy.

People say "third world" when they mean a place like Zimbabwe.
Link Posted: 11/21/2008 9:10:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?

:|

I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


There is no civil war going on in the US.
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 6:16:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 6:20:25 AM EDT
On top of this, the contractors salaries will no longer be tax free as of January 1st.
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 6:31:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 6:45:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By ODA_564:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Oda:
The point isn't that every contractor is or is not  HSLD. I simply wouldn't work in such a country and be subject to the whims of that nations legal system , knowing how bad it is. My life is worth more than the paycheck in that case.


Unfortunately, that's pretty much the case in every country outside of the US and Canada and I'm not really that confident about the US and Canadian "legal system" unless you've got a ton of money or a crackerjack attorney or both.  Maybe Australia, too.



In Afghanistan, most legal matters don't go through the actual court system. They are handled by tribal elders in most cases. We are trying to change that by reforming the police and the judicial system. As it stands now though, guilt or innocence is determined by who brings the fatter wallet to court. You can talk bad all you want about the problems of the US legal system, butw e are not that bad by comparison.



in America the fatter wallet wins in court also, though i do get what you are saying. thanks for your service there
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 7:23:47 AM EDT



Originally Posted By tc556guy:

On top of this, the contractors salaries will no longer be tax free as of January 1st.


Got a link? Source?





CHRIS

Link Posted: 11/22/2008 7:36:15 AM EDT
Fuck that!
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 7:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2008 8:05:19 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]
Hows this conversation @ LF?

I would be more interested in what they are saying there instead of here.

BRB.

ETA: nothing there, yet.

Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:01:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.


So if they can not operate "above the law", then there is no use trying to help? Or our guys just can not help themselves, so they break the laws, and need immunity?

I fail to understand the problem.
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:01:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2008 8:04:33 AM EDT by 99Tarbox]
No contractor is tax free...period.  We are covered as expats, in other words as long as we are out of the US for 330 days out of a year (a single 365 day period, regardless of dates) we only pay taxes on anything over the first $85k but are taxed beyond that at the highest rate.  So, if I make $150k for instance, I am in the tax bracket for $150k, but only pay that for the $65k total.  Not to bad.  Also, we get hardship and danger pay, as required by State Depart rules.  This is concidered a part of our pay for tax purposes.  We also (usually, depending on the contractor) get longevity bonuses.  Mine pays out every three months.  

It isn't too bad, depending on what you do.  I wouldn't want to be a gun slinger over here.  I am an intel guy, so I don't travel outside the wire as per contract, so the change to the SOFA shouldn't affect me.  Some of buddies who do carry weapons for a living over here aren't so happy.  I don't expect a huge turnover of personnel though.  Some folks will feel uncomfortable and leave, others won't care and will chance it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:02:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By friendlysniper:
Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.


Just imagine if Iraq had a legal system that wasn't totally corrupt...

Apples and fucking oranges.


An our legal system is flawless...
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:04:57 AM EDT
There is a US PMC who is on trial now murdering an Afghan who set someone on fire, he is on trial here in the states.

Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:09:34 AM EDT


Originally Posted By southfloridaguns:



Originally Posted By friendlysniper:


Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Good luck getting any American contractors to work in that country.




...so you're saying that american civilian contractors won't want to work in iraq because they'll be held accountable for what they do?  According to Iraqi law?



:|



I've always been surprised that Iraqi law didn't apply.  Seemed kind of ridiculous.. but at least some things are starting to change.  Just imagine if Iraqi civilian contractors were working in the US under the same guidelines our own contractors were.




Except we don't have indirect fire hitting our guys working on the utilities. And last time I checked, Americans don't run around trying to kill every foreign worker they see. Iraq is a warzone. Normal rules don't apply in warzones. Not to mention we have a decent legal system here if the foreign worker gets in trouble. In Iraq they just cut your head off in the middle of a soccer field.



Not so much.  Except maybe when AQ control someplaces in Anbar and up North.





 
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:12:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Grunteled:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

I don't give a shit about the contractors but US troops also become subservient to Iraqi law and that I do care about.




So vets making a living getting shot at and working for one organization you don't give a shit about but active duty in the other organization you do?



Pretty much. Once you go to work for a civilian company, you're a CIVILIAN.

If I went to visit Iraq, should I be immune to laws because I am an American? That's what is being suggested here. Americans in country should be immune from everything.

Tell all the prisoners here from foreign countries that they can go free because they don't agree with the laws they're being accused of  breaking. That would be acceptable, right?
Link Posted: 11/22/2008 8:15:19 AM EDT
There is always AFG and HOA.
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