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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/11/2005 12:19:23 PM EDT
A friend I grew up with spent 46 months in Viet Nam as a LRRP, Ranger, and SF. He has photos of himself with his groups, they're wearing camos, painted faces, and all carrying shorty M-16s with long silencers attached. He says his rifle was clearly stamped "CAR-15" and made by Colt. It looks like the M-4s we have now.

My question is this: I just saw the snipers show on the Hitler Channel, but they don't show anyone using silencers. Does anyone know if present day snipers use silencers? If not, then why not? It doesn't make a lot of sense to sneak all around and stalk a target, then risk exposing yourself from a rifle blast.

And why would SF groups back then use silencers and not someone like Carlos Hathcock? Can anyone clear this up for me?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:21:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 12:30:49 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / sound suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:27:44 PM EDT

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:28:40 PM EDT
A short M16 ( CAR) wouldn't be used as a Sniper rifle. The CAR15 ( thats correct ) that I have seen had a longer type Flash Suppressor.I think that 's what your are seening. I would also like to say while I don't know your friend , " It seems everybody that has a friend that was in NAM was in SF...This isn't an attck on your bud... But do your own research and use your own instinct... If your bud was a LRRP, He has my respect.. They was a tough bunch and did a hard and scary job .IMO. I love reading about LRRP's.... and there missions... If your BUD was a Tab'ed SF he should have went through the Q course... " I guess they had it back then.But heck who knows what they did dureing WAR time..... The ARMY to my limited knowledge Had M14 in the late WAR ( sniper rifles ) and maybe some Garands.. Im not sure about the Bolt guns other than 1903 Springfields set up with scopes... .... Im sure there was other rifles also.. But a Short Car 15 ??......... WarDawg
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:31:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



But still, a sniper out even at 1,000 + yards the flash and blast would give your position away, no? You have to be able to get away, right? Maybe I'm missing some of this picture.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:37:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WarDawg:
A short M16 ( CAR) wouldn't be used as a Sniper rifle. The CAR15 ( thats correct ) that I have seen had a longer type Flash Suppressor.I think that 's what your are seening. I would also like to say while I don't know your friend , " It seems everybody that has a friend that was in NAM was in SF...This isn't an attck on your bud... But do your own research and use your own instinct... If your bud was a LRRP, He has my respect.. They was a tough bunch and did a hard and scary job .IMO. I love reading about LRRP's.... and there missions... If your BUD was a Tab'ed SF he should have went through the Q course... " I guess they had it back then.But heck who knows what they did dureing WAR time..... The ARMY to my limited knowledge Had M14 in the late WAR ( sniper rifles ) and maybe some Garands.. Im not sure about the Bolt guns other than 1903 Springfields set up with scopes... .... Im sure there was other rifles also.. But a Short Car 15 ??......... WarDawg



Back then, they would take folks who knew how to handle themselves in jungle combat directly into SF, without having them go through the Q course.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:40:17 PM EDT
A lot of us use suppressors in order to get a few more rounds on a target. Also, a suppressor helps make the sharp bark of your rifle more of an omnidirectional sound, rather than the high-frequency noise that can help pinpoint your position. Besides, if you're firing from indoors, it can help your hearing a little.



the only reasons that I can think of why a good unit wouldn't oufit their designated marksmen or snipers with sound suppressors would be availablility of funds and familiarity of equipment. A lot of people still buy into the mystique of suppressors instead of learning more about them.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:41:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WarDawg:
A short M16 ( CAR) wouldn't be used as a Sniper rifle. The CAR15 ( thats correct ) that I have seen had a longer type Flash Suppressor.I think that 's what your are seening. I would also like to say while I don't know your friend , " It seems everybody that has a friend that was in NAM was in SF...This isn't an attck on your bud... But do your own research and use your own instinct... If your bud was a LRRP, He has my respect.. They was a tough bunch and did a hard and scary job .IMO. I love reading about LRRP's.... and there missions... If your BUD was a Tab'ed SF he should have went through the Q course... " I guess they had it back then.But heck who knows what they did dureing WAR time..... The ARMY to my limited knowledge Had M14 in the late WAR ( sniper rifles ) and maybe some Garands.. Im not sure about the Bolt guns other than 1903 Springfields set up with scopes... .... Im sure there was other rifles also.. But a Short Car 15 ??......... WarDawg



I've known the boy since the fourth grade, used to pick him up from the airport coming home for 30 day leaves from "The War", took him to Naval Base Norfolk to get his pay, Camp Allen Marine Corps Package Store to get beer and booze, and all while he was in uniform. Being a military brat, I know a SF uniform and a Ranger shoulder patch when I see them. He was the real thing others often want to be. But all that aside, the picture shows what he calls a "shorty CAR-15." He WAS NOT a sniper, so I'm wondering why snipers didn't also use silencers.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:43:37 PM EDT
A couple of points of general knowlege to pass on to you...

They are supressors, not silencers. An M16 equipped with the supressor of the day could still be heard about 1/4 of a mile away.

Up until the Viet-Nam war, sniper units and doctrine were anathema to the US military way of doing things. Every time there was a war, sharp shooters were broght in and sniper's were utilized. Every time a war ended, the word "sniper" was stricken from every document and banned from both speach and thought. Pretty much

If he was a sniper, it is most likely he was part of a sniping "team", and therefore probably shared or rotated duties with others in his unit, including spotter, radio op, or security element. He probably had a CAR-15 at one point. He probably had several different types of weapons in fact.

You can't really compare the exploits of Carlos Hathcock with LRRP/Ranger/SF types as his military training was that of MP. Yeah, he crawled around in the dirt from time to time, but his primary missions were perimeter security.

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:51:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ReelVirginian1861:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



But still, a sniper out even at 1,000 + yards the flash and blast would give your position away, no? You have to be able to get away, right? Maybe I'm missing some of this picture.



At 1,000 yards, a .308 (for example) with a 100 yard zero, needs to be aimed aprox 400 inches above the 1,000 yard target to impact it. That's a considerable angle, and might mitigate some of the barrel signature, considering longer barrels don't usually have a muzzle flash. It would take nearly 2 seconds for the round to impact down range, and the sound nearly as long... so by the time the target is hit, a single shot will basically be undetectable unless there is a very obvious line of fire.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:54:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ReelVirginian1861:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



But still, a sniper out even at 1,000 + yards the flash and blast would give your position away, no? You have to be able to get away, right? Maybe I'm missing some of this picture.



You're gonna want to read Marine Sniper.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:58:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / sound suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



Yep, those SF guys engaged their targets up close and personal.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:01:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / sound suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



Yep, those SF guys engaged their targets up close and personal.



The reason the CAR's were equipped with the 5" flash supressors, was because they throw ONE HELL of a fireball. Unacceptable for night ops.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:11:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / sound suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



Yep, those SF guys engaged their targets up close and personal.



The reason the CAR's were equipped with the 5" flash supressors, was because they throw ONE HELL of a fireball. Unacceptable for night ops.



Thanks, BTW, he never said it was a "silencer" I assumed that all by myself, so thanks for the info update. I wasn't aware there was a difference between the two.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:22:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 1:22:54 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The Commando version had a combination long flash hider / sound suppressor.

Carlos didn't use one because he didn't get that close.



Yep, those SF guys engaged their targets up close and personal.



The reason the CAR's were equipped with the 5" flash supressors, was because they throw ONE HELL of a fireball. Unacceptable for night ops.



Actually the military versions of the CAR's weren't the same as the civilian. It was NOT a 5" flash suppressor ONLY. It was a combo flash / sound suppressor.

I'll get some scans up later.
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