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Posted: 9/7/2005 8:46:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 8:46:37 AM EDT by kill-9]
From www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.impact/index.html:



New Orleans mayor orders holdouts removed

General says military won't evict anyone

Wednesday, September 7, 2005; Posted: 11:22 a.m. EDT (15:22 GMT)

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- The mayor of New Orleans has ordered law enforcement agencies to remove from the city everyone who is not involved in cleaning up after Hurricane Katrina, whether they want to go or not.

But U.S. active duty troops will not be involved, the general in charge of military relief efforts said on Wednesday.

Lt. Gen. Russel Honore told CNN the task of removing people against their will was a law enforcement job and that the military would continue to deliver food and water to the survivors still in the city.




Anybody have a suitable "pwned" pic?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:48:40 AM EDT
That's awesome. Hats off to the General in charge.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:52:03 AM EDT
That's fargin' GREAT!!!

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:52:25 AM EDT
Interestingly, this should be good news to the tinfoil hat crowd, who are concerned about mass weapons confiscation someday.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:53:51 AM EDT
The General isn't stupid. US soldiers are not going to be photographed kicking people out of their houses.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:03:42 AM EDT
I wonder if Nagin still sees him as a "John Wayne dude"?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:04:59 AM EDT
That's good.

Too bad there wasn't a similar response when the Feds wanted military support at Waco.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:05:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
That's awesome. Hats off to the General in charge.



Amen!


I wonder what the 'tards over at DUh are saying about it!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:07:55 AM EDT
Lt. Gen Honore has to be the adult in this issue, Nagin sure isn't.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:08:10 AM EDT
I wonder what they are going to do. NO probably doesn't have enough LE to get the job done in a timely fashion.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:09:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
That's good.

Too bad there wasn't a similar response when the Feds wanted military support at Waco.




I wonder who the Military commander was ?

<<cough-Wesley Clark-cough-cough >>
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:10:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
That's good.

Too bad there wasn't a similar response when the Feds wanted military support at Waco.



I think that at Waco the military support was National Guard, correct? Did they get actual ground troops from the NG or just aircrews for the helicopters? I'm not sure about the armor crews.

Anyway, back on topic, the mayor is an idiot.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:10:45 AM EDT
The media is straining at the leash to get nice glossy photos of white camoflaged men with guns forcefully yanking crying black women and children out of their homes.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:11:03 AM EDT
That's the way it's suppose to be anyway. Big woop.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:11:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 9:12:31 AM EDT by gunman0]
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:12:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MaineAR:
I wonder what they are going to do. NO probably doesn't have enough LE to get the job done in a timely fashion.



I predict, in light of this recent development, those who want to remain will be allowed to remain, but will be SOL regarding supplies being dropped to them -- they will be entirely on their own. Nagin's directive has no teeth, because he has no manpower. I agree that the folks (in principle) should be allowed to remain, but in light of the fact that they will be living in or surrounded by "lake" full of bacteria and chemicals, I think it is a very bad idea to remain there.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:13:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By operatorerror:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
That's good.

Too bad there wasn't a similar response when the Feds wanted military support at Waco.



I think that at Waco the military support was National Guard, correct? Did they get actual ground troops from the NG or just aircrews for the helicopters? I'm not sure about the armor crews.

Anyway, back on topic, the mayor is an idiot.



From what I read, Wes Clark commanded Ft. Hood at the time and granted Klinton/Reno's request for armor & other support. Note: I wasn't there, but this is what I read in a couple accounts.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:15:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gunman0:
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.


The Navy is not endowed with police powers. If we are to participate in something like counter drug ops, we have to embark USCG officers and are basically reassigned to the USCG.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:16:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
The General isn't stupid. US soldiers are not going to be photographed kicking people out of their houses.




[liberal] The damn3d gubmint came in and took our house away from us! Kicked us out like dogs to the skreet! [/liberal]

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:21:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
That's good.

Too bad there wasn't a similar response when the Feds wanted military support at Waco.



It's all in the leadership. In this case, the leader has a clue.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:28:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
The Navy is not endowed with police powers. If we are to participate in something like counter drug ops, we have to embark USCG officers and are basically reassigned to the USCG.



Hell, the federal government is not endowed with police powers, but when was the last time that stopped them?

SBG
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:30:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By gunman0:
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.


The Navy is not endowed with police powers. If we are to participate in something like counter drug ops, we have to embark USCG officers and are basically reassigned to the USCG.



Correct, but a state of emergency, does not need to be declared. It would need to be declared to have the army assist with helicopters recon for drug runners on the border with Mexico, even if only police were actually dispatched on the ground and made contact. National guard can do it, but not the army.

Of course, all USCG officers are automatically sworn federal LEOs.

But, unless I'm wrong, the Navy can attempt maritime rescues, and render aid without a state of emergency being delcared, and USCG officers present. Something the Army can not legally accomplish.

The Army, Air Force, and Marines can't police, even with a State of Emergency, but it is required just to be able to even participate in aid and rescue missions.

Of course I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:31:23 AM EDT
Holy crap a General that is mindful of the militarys duties in civilian affairs?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:34:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:39:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gunman0:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By gunman0:
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.


The Navy is not endowed with police powers. If we are to participate in something like counter drug ops, we have to embark USCG officers and are basically reassigned to the USCG.



Correct, but a state of emergency, does not need to be declared. It would need to be declared to have the army assist with helicopters recon for drug runners on the border with Mexico, even if only police were actually dispatched on the ground and made contact. National guard can do it, but not the army.

Of course, all USCG officers are automatically sworn federal LEOs.

But, unless I'm wrong, the Navy can attempt maritime rescues, and render aid without a state of emergency being delcared, and USCG officers present. Something the Army can not legally accomplish.

The Army, Air Force, and Marines can't police, even with a State of Emergency, but it is required just to be able to even participate in aid and rescue missions.

Of course I could be wrong.


At sea. The law of the sea compells ALL mariners to render aid. Ashore, we have no more power than any other branch. Even at sea, we cannot stop people for "safety" inspections or anything like that. In fact, if boats get too close to our ships we call the USCG to arrest them.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:53:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 9:53:56 AM EDT by callgood]

Originally Posted By MaineAR:
I wonder what they are going to do. NO probably doesn't have enough LE to get the job done in a timely fashion.



And I heard a police offical on National Peoples Radio this am denying the remaining NOPD was going to drag people out. Maybe the mayor's staff has gone tactical.

Edited to put a helmet on the emoticon.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:11:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
That's awesome. Hats off to the General in charge.



+1.
Nagin is an asshat of the first degree. Those who elected him deserve what they got.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:16:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
That's awesome. Hats off to the General in charge.



Give that General his Fourth Star
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:22:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 10:24:55 AM EDT by skid2964]
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:32:42 AM EDT
Nagin =


Link Posted: 9/7/2005 12:25:34 PM EDT
btt for more photoshops
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 4:16:38 PM EDT
All US Armed Forces can be employed in Law Enforcement when authorized by Congress and ordered by the chain of command. Read the Posse Comitatus Act for content and comprehension and not for emotion.

Now we can assume the latest Congressional Disaster Relief appropriations bills included the necessary language.

However, Gen Honore is the HMFIC and as noted he isn't going to use his troops for that. And you can be darn sure that GW, no matter how dumb you think he may be, is going to allow it either.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:00:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ClayP:
The media is straining at the leash to get nice glossy photos of white camoflaged men with guns forcefully yanking crying black women and children out of their homes.



Exactly. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Jesse Jackson was making the arrangements, as we speak, to stage such an event (think poor little Pali kids throwing rocks at armed Israeli soldiers, all for the benefit of the CNN cameras). And you can bet that whatever uniform is worn by the men performing the evictions, they'll be identified as US military.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:28:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
That's good.

Too bad there wasn't a similar response when the Feds wanted military support at Waco.



ATF lied thru their tetth to get that help. They swore it was a major drug raid , when the had zero proof, and later had to admit it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:32:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By gunman0:
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.


The Navy is not endowed with police powers. If we are to participate in something like counter drug ops, we have to embark USCG officers and are basically reassigned to the USCG.



Close. It just has to be USCG Petty Officers (with Boarding officer qualification)
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:34:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunman0:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By gunman0:
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.


The Navy is not endowed with police powers. If we are to participate in something like counter drug ops, we have to embark USCG officers and are basically reassigned to the USCG.



Correct, but a state of emergency, does not need to be declared. It would need to be declared to have the army assist with helicopters recon for drug runners on the border with Mexico, even if only police were actually dispatched on the ground and made contact. National guard can do it, but not the army.

Of course, all USCG officers are automatically sworn federal LEOs.

But, unless I'm wrong, the Navy can attempt maritime rescues, and render aid without a state of emergency being delcared, and USCG officers present. Something the Army can not legally accomplish.

The Army, Air Force, and Marines can't police, even with a State of Emergency, but it is required just to be able to even participate in aid and rescue missions.

Of course I could be wrong.



All USCG E-4 and above are federal law enforcement officers.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:39:42 PM EDT
Hell yeah!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:41:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:45:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DirtyDeeds:
I wonder if Nagin still sees him as a "John Wayne dude"?




Why not? He gave him a "John Wayne" reply.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:50:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 5:55:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 5:56:16 PM EDT by tommytrauma]

Originally Posted By gunman0:
It would be illegal for active duty troops to remove people against their will anyway. The active military, other than navy and coast guard who already are given police powers, to operate as police inside of the United States.

This isn't a surprise, CNN is just trying to amplify the story.

The LA national guard will be evicting people from their homes in camo with M-16s, just not active duty military.



No they won't. They take orders from the Governor, not the Mayor. She's declining to sign off on any such debacle.


Mayor, Governor at Odds Over Evacuation

Wednesday, September 07, 2005



NEW ORLEANS — Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco (search) seemed at odds with New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin (search ) Wednesday, hours after the mayor ordered the mandatory evacuation of the crippled Crescent City by force if necessary.

As floodwaters caused by Hurricane Katrina (search) began to slowly recede with the ruined city's first pumps returning to operation, Nagin late Tuesday authorized law enforcement officers to force the evacuation of the estimated 10,000 residents who refuse to heed orders to leave.

But in a Wednesday interview with FOX News, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco (search) said she had not signed off on the decision.

"The mayor certainly has ordered that but the governor, and that would be me, would have to enforce it or implement it. We are trying to determine whether there is an absolute justification for that," she told FOX News.

"I think the most important thing driving that decision would be the possibility of disease. If indeed the disease problem is evident, is inevitable, we'll have to move to the next stage," she said.

And developments suggest that "next stage" may come soon. Floodwaters in New Orleans contain bacteria associated with sewage that are at least 10 times higher than acceptable safety levels, making direct contact by rescue workers and remaining residents dangerous, the first government tests confirmed Wednesday.

Five deaths in Texas and Mississippi have already been attributed to contact with the toxic water, the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Wednesday.

'I Don't Want to Leave'

Police and soldiers coaxed some of Katrina's stubborn holdouts from their homes Wednesday after the mayor's order.

"I haven't left my house in my life. I don't want to leave," said a frail-looking 86-year-old Anthony Charbonnet, shaking his head as he locked his front door and walked slowly backwards down the steps of the house where he had lived since 1955.

Charbonnet left only after a neighbor assured him: "Things will be OK. It'll be like a vacation." Still protesting, Charbonnet stepped into the ambulance in which soldiers from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division would take him to a helicopter.

As of midday Wednesday, there were no reports of anyone being removed by force.

"We have thousands of people who want to voluntarily evacuate at this time," Police Chief Eddie Compass said. Once they all are out, he said, "then we'll concentrate our forces on mandatory evacuation."

Dr. Julie Gerberding, CDC director, said the health hazards from the water make it imperative that remaining residents get out. "If you haven't left the city yet, you must do so," she said.

Doctors are being urged to watch for diarrheal illnesses caused by such things as E. coli bacteria, certain viruses, and a type of cholera-like bacteria common in warm Gulf Coast waters.

The stepped-up evacuation came as workers struggled find and count the corpses decaying in the 90-degree heat. Even when cadaver dogs pick up a scent, workers frequently cannot get at the bodies without heavy equipment. The mayor has estimated New Orleans' death toll could reach 10,000.

Death Toll Mounts

Floodwaters also had receded from St. Bernard Parish southeast of New Orleans, but it was still a disaster scene with bedroom dressers and hot tubs scattered on roofs, toilet seats dangling in tree limbs and cars overturned in driveways. Water gurgled and spouted where natural gas seeped from below.

"I've been here all my life — we always hear, 'the storm's coming, the storm's coming and it never comes … unfortunately, this time it did come … and all of our residents didn't get out, " Louisiana state Sen. Walter Boasso, who represents St. Bernard Parish, told FOX News on Wednesday.

"Unfortunately, they won't be able to come back for a while … we're going to have a long rebuilding process."

Boasso estimated that the parish's 68,000 residents would have to wait about a week to even think about returning.

The enormity of the disaster became ever-clearer: State Rep. Nita Hutter said 30 people died at a flooded-out nursing home in Chalmette, just outside New Orleans. She said the staff left the elderly residents behind in their beds. And more than 100 people died at a dockside warehouse, waiting for rescuers to ferry them to safety, said Rep. Charlie Melancon, whose congressional district includes the area.

Meanwhile, firefighters battled blazes around New Orleans — an emerging threat in a city where the water pressure is too low to fight fires and where many people are using candles because of the lack of electricity. At the same time, workers returning to the city to restart essential services came under sniper fire.

More than 100 law officers using armored personnel carriers converged on a housing project and captured a suspect who had been firing on telephone workers, authorities said.

"These cell teams are getting fire on almost a daily basis, so we needed to get in here and clean this thing up," police Capt. Jeff Winn. "We're putting a lot of people on the street right now, and I think that we are bringing it under control. Eight days ago this was a mess. Every day is getting a little bit better."

The mayor's everyone-out directive — which superseded an earlier, milder order to evacuate made before Hurricane Katrina crashed ashore Aug. 29 — came after rescuers scouring New Orleans found hundreds of people ignoring warnings to get out.

Several residents said they heard Nagin's latest order on portable radios and were reluctantly complying.

Dolores Devron and her husband, Forcell, finally agreed to go. Dolores Devron said she was relieved the couple were allowed to take their dog with them but angry they were ordered out.

"There are dead babies tied to poles and they're dragging us out and leaving the dead babies. That ain't right!" she screamed, waving her arms as she was directed onto a troop carrier truck.

Picola Brown, 47, hobbled slowly down the street on her crutches. She said she had not been able to leave because a truck ran over her left foot shortly before the storm struck, breaking a toe.

"The mayor said everybody's got to go. I got ready. I just don't want them knocking on my door," she said.

"Where do you want to go?" asked a soldier from the 82nd Airborne Division. She answered, "Wherever it's comfortable."

Patricia Kelly, 41, sat under a tattered, dirty green-and-white-striped patio umbrella in front of an abandoned barber and beauty shop in the devastated Ninth Ward. Her home was flooded; she was not able to get back in, but did not want to leave the neighborhood.

"I'm going to stay as long as the Lord says so," Kelly said. "If they come with a court order, then we'll leave. I hope it doesn't get to the point where we're forced out."

Sgt. Joseph Boarman of the 82nd Airborne, standing on a corner, said he understood the reluctance to leave: "It's their home. You know how hard it is to leave home, no matter what condition it's in."

In Washington, President Bush and Congress pledged on Tuesday to open separate investigations into the federal response to Katrina and New Orleans' broken levees. "Governments at all levels failed," said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., repeated her call for the Federal Emergency Management Agency to be made autonomous from the Department of Homeland Security and for an independent commission to investigate the federal response to the disaster.

"The people that I met in Houston — they want answers and they want to know what went wrong and they want to know what they are going to be able to count on in the future," she said on NBC's "Today" show Wednesday, two days after visiting refugees at the Astrodome. "I don't think the government can investigate itself."

The pumping-out of the city began after the Army Corps of Engineers used hundreds of sandbags and rocks over the Labor Day weekend to close a 200-foot gap in the 17th Street Canal levee that burst in the aftermath of the storm and swamped 80 percent of this below sea-level city.

Although toxic floodwaters receded inch by inch, only five of New Orleans' normal contingent of 148 drainage pumps were operating Tuesday, the Corps said.

How long it takes to drain the city could depend on the condition of the pumps — especially whether they were submerged and damaged, the Corps said. Also, the water is full of debris, and while there are screens on the pumps, it may be necessary to stop and clean them from time to time.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:10:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By MaineAR:
I wonder what they are going to do. NO probably doesn't have enough LE to get the job done in a timely fashion.



I predict, in light of this recent development, those who want to remain will be allowed to remain, but will be SOL regarding supplies being dropped to them -- they will be entirely on their own. Nagin's directive has no teeth, because he has no manpower. I agree that the folks (in principle) should be allowed to remain, but in light of the fact that they will be living in or surrounded by "lake" full of bacteria and chemicals, I think it is a very bad idea to remain there.



You know, a lot of people live around Lake Michigan, too.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:12:40 PM EDT
They send their PO to Las Vegas and then want the military to do the PO's job?????
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:19:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By MaineAR:
I wonder what they are going to do. NO probably doesn't have enough LE to get the job done in a timely fashion.



I predict, in light of this recent development, those who want to remain will be allowed to remain, but will be SOL regarding supplies being dropped to them -- they will be entirely on their own. Nagin's directive has no teeth, because he has no manpower. I agree that the folks (in principle) should be allowed to remain, but in light of the fact that they will be living in or surrounded by "lake" full of bacteria and chemicals, I think it is a very bad idea to remain there.



You know, a lot of people live around Lake Michigan, too.



The water in NO is truely toxic.

EPA: Lead, bacteria in floodwater
'The water is full of sewage,' CDC director says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The EPA said Wednesday that initial findings from New Orleans floodwater sampling indicate high levels of E. coli and coliform bacteria as well as lead.

"No one should drink the floodwater, especially children," administrator Stephen L. Johnson told reporters. He said the amounts exceeded 10 times the safe limit in all cases.

In addition, people should do all they can to avoid contact with the water, said Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

She urged anyone who had not yet evacuated the Louisiana city to do so.

"Basically, the results from the EPA indicate that the water is full of sewage; we know that this is not safe," she said.

The bacteria can cause common intestinal illnesses, she said.

An agency spokesman said the CDC was investigating reports of five fatal cases caused by the bacteria Vibrio vulnificus bacteria to which people with compromised immune systems are particularly vulnerable.

Gerberding described the cases as "scattered," saying they do not represent an outbreak.

"We see cases of this periodically from time to time along the coast."

The illness "in no way resembles cholera," she said. "It is not spread person to person."

But the CDC's Web site described it as a bacterium "in the same family as those that cause cholera."

On Tuesday, CDC spokesman Tom Skinner said one of the deaths occurred in Texas and the other four were in Mississippi.

"These were all either elderly or had chronic, underlying health conditions," people considered most at risk for suffering complications from such infections, he said.

Gerberding downplayed the risk of cholera, saying it has not been found in the region for years and is unlikely to emerge as a threat.

The CDC also is investigating "sporadic reports" of outbreaks of gastrointestinal illness in shelters for evacuees from Hurricane Katrina, she said. Among the contaminants found has been norovirus, which is responsible for outbreaks of GI illness aboard cruise ships.

While the illness is generally not life-threatening, "it's annoying," Gerberding said.

CNN gave three samples to Analytical and Environmental Testing Inc. in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, which found 20,000 fecal coliform colonies per 100 milliliters of water, the highest the lab could count. That's 100 times the normal count found in water runoff from storms, the company said.

Officials have said they are taking steps to limit the outbreak of disease in crowded shelters, whose residents could prove susceptible.

Authorities also are watching for respiratory illnesses, such as the common cold, influenza and tuberculosis.

Gerberding credited some shelters for taking steps to minimize those risks, citing one that had set up a long line of portable sinks for evacuees to wash in and others that gave evacuees alcohol-soaked hand wipes.

Within the crowded compounds of shelters, health officials are working to make sure children's immunizations of measles and rubella are up to date, she said.

For adults, the focus is on tetanus and flu vaccines, when they become available.

Reports of diarrhea, tuberculosis investigated
Reports of diarrhea and tuberculosis have emerged in Texas, though it was not clear whether the cases were more widespread than they would have been among a normal population, Gerberding said Tuesday.

The reports of tuberculosis are being investigated, as some evacuees were diagnosed with the disease before the hurricane and were receiving treatment. Ensuring they get back on their medications is a priority, Gerberding said.

An evacuee at the Astrodome in Houston, Texas, was taken to a hospital after he began coughing up blood, Skinner said. The case has not been confirmed to be tuberculosis, he said.

The CDC has deployed more than 140 people, and eight more teams are prepared to augment shelter staffs.

A joint task force has been set up at Kindred Hospital in New Orleans to monitor the public health situation and to determine when the area might be safe to reinhabit, Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt said on Tuesday. The hospital also will be the site for the HHS field command and the city's public health department.

Still, meeting the immediate needs has stressed the nation's public health system, particularly in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, which has seen its population rise from 500,000 to 850,000 since last week, Leavitt said.

"The hospitals are under significant pressure," he said.


Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:22:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 6:23:00 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Well THAT'S good to hear.



Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
Interestingly, this should be good news to the tinfoil hat crowd, who are concerned about mass weapons confiscation someday.

It won't be the Military that confiscates weapons. As stated above, it'll be strictly a law enforcement issue. And they are fast becoming quite a paramilitary organization unto themselves.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:24:13 PM EDT
No doubt you need to be careful and avoid it. If my house were flooded I would leave. For those that are in sound and dry houses why leave? It's not like they are going down to swim in the flood water. Blanket evacuation orders from a mayor that is incompetent is not something I would follow unless I felt it was in my best interest. You get all the witnesses out of the area and all sorts of awful, terrible things would suddenly hit the media. Maybe I'm wrong, but I am the suspicious sort.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 10:35:42 PM EDT
The water is not only toxic but probably flammable too.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 11:07:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
The water is not only toxic but probably flammable too.



Yup. And as we old farts well know, flammables entering a city's sewer system can lead to some really, really bad things happening... .

-----------------------------


Cleveland East Ohio Gas Explosion

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Cleveland East Ohio Gas Explosion occurred on the afternoon of Friday, October 20th, 1944. The resulting gas leak, explosion and fires killed 130 people and destroyed a one square mile area on Cleveland, Ohio’s east side.

The Disaster

At half past 2 in the afternoon on Friday, October 20, 1944, above ground storage tank number 4, holding liquified natural gas in the East Ohio Gas Company’s tank farm, began to emit a vapor that poured from a seam on the side of the tank. The tank was located near Lake Erie on East 61st Street, and winds from the lake pushed the vapor into a mixed use section of Cleveland, where it dropped into the sewer lines via the catch basins located in the street gutters.

As the gas mixture flowed and mixed with air and sewer gas, the mix ignited. In the ensuing explosion, manhole covers launched skyward as jets of fire erupted from depths of the sewer lines. One manhole cover was found several miles east in the Cleveland neighborhood of Glenville.

At first it was thought that the disaster was contained, and spectators returned home thinking that the matter was being taken care of by the fire department. At 3:00 P.M., a second above ground tank exploded, leveling the tank farm.

However, the explosions and fires continued to occur, trapping many who had returned to what they thought was the safety of their own homes. Housewives who were at home suddenly found their homes enrobed in flame as the explosion traveled through the sewers and up through drains. The following day, Associated Press wire stories contained quotes from survivors, many of whom were at home cleaning in preparation for the coming Sabbath. Survivors said that within a split second after the explosion, their homes and clothes were on fire.

Cuyahoga County Coroner Dr. Samuel Gerber estimated that the initial death toll stood at 200; however, Gerber was quoted in newspaper wire stories stating the magnitude of the fire and the intense temperatures had the power to vaporize human flesh and bone, making an exact count impossible until weeks after the disaster. The final death toll was lower than the coroner’s initial estimates.

The toll could have been significantly higher had the event occurred after local schools had let out and working parents returned to their homes for the evening. In all over 600 people were left homeless, seventy homes, two factories and numerous cars and miles of underground infra structure destroyed.

Epilogue

Following the explosions and fires, East Ohio Gas worked to assure the public that the destroyed plant only held 24 hours worth of gas for the city. Many families living in the area not only lost their homes, but stocks, bonds and cash, which many kept at home. Estimates for destroyed personal and industrial property ranged between $7,000,000 and $15,000,000.

The explosion also had a long range impact on the natural gas industry. Until the disaster, above ground storage of natural gas, used as fuel for homes, office buildings and factories, was a common sight in cities across America. Following the disaster, utility companies and communities began to rethink their natural gas storage systems, and below ground storage of natural gas grew in popularity.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 11:27:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 11:48:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 12:54:51 AM EDT by Keith_J]
Until 2002, Ray Nagin was a Republican. He switched to the Democratic Party before running for mayor of NO as he would never get elected in the city running as a Republican.

With that, he still maintained friendship with Bobby Jindal, a US Representative and Republican. But before Bobby Jindal was elected in 2004, he ran against current Governor Kathy Blanco, a Democrat, in the Gubernatorial election of LA. It was heated and ugly with Mayor Nagin, the now Democrat pulling HEAVILY for Jindal, a Republican.

Nasty politics. And even worse since it extended to hurricane preparations. Corruption in the Levee districts took funds for repair and improvements and used them for docks and moorings for the many gambling barges. The State, not the City of NO, controls the gambling but levee district funds were diverted to a gambling benefit. Again, this is the corruption by the State and it robs the communities of revenues for flood protection. Of course the State conditions this by promises of huge returns on the "investments".

So blaming Mayor Nagin is a stretch. Sure, the Superdome refuge of last resort turned out to be a bad idea BUT they survived the hurricane. The levee breaks happened several hours AFTER the hurricane and were due to the long, straight canals which focused and amplified the north wind induced surge and waves straight up the canals. And the canals had been deepened to allow more mooring slots for gambling boats, further threatening the wave integrity of the canal levees. ALL of the lake levees held yet they took a far worse beating. This north wind is a direct result of the hurrican passing east of New Orleans.

I blame Democrat Governor Blanco. And the recent gag order imposed on the LA National Guard is HIGHLY indictative of the guilt of the Governor. Remember, she is the Commander in Chief of the LA National Guard and any other State's National Guard troops sent to her State.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 12:46:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 12:49:12 AM EDT by smallmonkey]
I do not think the mayor is doing a bad job. He probably lost a lot of loved ones and all he owned just like many other people. He has kept up trying to do whatever he can and is sleep deprived so may come off a little flakey. IMO, the man takes great pride in his city and is doing his best and doing well. I like it that he has taken off his political ass-kissing facade (ALL politicians do this) and is actually concerned.

He is doing the correct things anyone should do in a crisis situation of any kind: he is trying to take charge and stop chaos, he is trying to direct people who have some power or ability to do something to do it (the military has guns and training thus they are very well qualified to force people to evacuate), he is keeping a cool head. A cool head does not mean not saying words "pissed off" and so on when TV crews are filming.

What does piss me off about this whole situation are the people like Jesse Jackson, many media outlets and the NAACP. They are for some odd reason trying to play the "race card". This is no time for politics and if they can afford a helicopter they should not be flying around trying to see who are being "oppressed", but be landing in supermarket parking lots, picking up water and food and dropping it on people or pulling them off their roof. One of the most dangerous things in aviation is air traffic and if they are going to be clogging up the skies over NO with helicopters and not using them to provide rescue, aid, or spotting then they are just making it more dangerous and confusing for everyone else who is actually helping. Several hundred helicopters over one city at low altitude who may or may not be all coordinated by a single control station is just dangerous.

I do not think the mayor is playing the race card at all and is just pissed off he lost his city that he takes pride in, took a huge personal loss, and is at least trying hard to do something to help. He has also not tried to panic people and has had mostly a calming and optimistic voice. I have yet to hear him start complaining about how much he personally lost.
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