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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/6/2005 4:35:09 PM EDT
This Slate article, "The Dumbing Down of the U.S. Army", is clearly a smear job, so I'll just pluck out the interesting parts:



This year the Army set a goal of recruiting 80,000 active-duty soldiers, but it wound up with just 73,000—almost 10 percent short. As a result, the Army Times reported this week, the Pentagon has decided to make up the difference by expanding the pool—by letting up to 10 percent of new recruits be young men and women who have neither graduated high school nor earned a General Equivalency Diploma.

More than that, the Los Angeles Times reports today that 4 percent of recruits will be allowed to score as low as in the 16th to 30th percentile—a grouping known as "Category IV"—on the U.S. Armed Forces' mental-aptitude exam.

As of 2003 (the last year for which official data are available), just 6 percent of active-duty Army soldiers lacked a high-school diploma or a GED. Just 1 percent scored in Category IV on the aptitude test.



Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:39:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:40:17 PM EDT
You know what, so long as they don't let in criminals I don't think it's such a bad thing. Calculus isn't exactly a requirement to be a damn good infantryman.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:42:40 PM EDT
I thought they were doing ok in the Officer Corps?

I guess this article proves me wrong.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:42:44 PM EDT
I found this story disturbing because I clearly remember walking out to the flightline talking to some of the mechanics who had just worked on our helicopter. They didn't exactly inspire confidence.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:48:24 PM EDT
This is a good thing. For many wayward young people, this is a second chance. 21 years ago, not only was I then NOT a HS grad, I was a court mandated enlistee. 21 years later, a GED, a truckload of college, a good home, great family, with the second chance givin me when I was 17 and stupid turned the tide. I've not been in trouble with the law since, my sons are now soldiers, infact, I even reenlisted in the NG a few months ago. See? You really CAN be anything you want to in this country, even when you fucked yourself royally in your early adult years.

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:49:54 PM EDT
They need to start waiving some of their medical history rules. They are a wee bit strict IMHO.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:50:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DOW:
You know what, so long as they don't let in criminals I don't think it's such a bad thing. Calculus isn't exactly a requirement to be a damn good infantryman.



Actually, I think the Army would be a lot better off raising the GT score required to be Infantry.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:51:04 PM EDT
Remember guys, not everyone that enlists without a HS diploma or a GED is a water-headed retard. I enlisted after dropping out of High School when I had 2 years of college under my belt (started college at 16 and attended college concurrently with HS). I had a perfect ASVAB score and am now doing satellite communications engineering for an emerging DoD contractor. That being said, it is a sad sad day when they are lowering enlistment standards...
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:51:15 PM EDT
I didn't learn much in high school anyhow.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:52:00 PM EDT
Think they will take someone with a re-enlistment code of RE-3P?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:52:13 PM EDT
Actually, I think the Army would be a lot better off raising the GT score required to be Infantry.

agree, as mentioned though, lots of support mos's.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:53:16 PM EDT
re 3's are waiverable for most branches, doesn't mean they'll waive it but they'll consider it and apply for it. re - 4's different story, only branch that will submitt a waiver for that is army national guard.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:54:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
re 3's are waiverable for most branches, doesn't mean they'll waive it but they'll consider it and apply for it. re - 4's different story, only branch that will submitt a waiver for that is army national guard.



Good to know.

I was medically discharged from the marine corps, which is why I asked. Just curious.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:54:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
Think they will take someone with a re-enlistment code of RE-3P?

Having less infantry is not a good idea. Most people who score high on the ASVAB dont want to be infantry they want a job that will make money. I say raise the ASVAB score for cannon cockers, FISTers and definatly 19Ds I had three guys in my squad who were for shit on land nav and radio reports.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:59:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:06:45 PM EDT
Why are they letting dumbasses in? Let the people with a few med. issues fill the gap, at least they will be competent.
Also, they should enlist Bubba from the gun show, I heard he single handedly HALO jumped into russia during the 80's from a space shuttle after his door gun ran out of ammo. When he landed he used melterv' coktailers on the Russian tanks, IIRC, he got about 60 T-72's, before escaping through a river pasage way filled with vodka piss.... He leaped out of the water spraying his FA Mak-90 into the Soviets, before switching to his uber reliable Hi-point pistol. (As used by his fellow SEALS) Then he finally stole a soviet jet powered by telepathy(I think this part is a lie, he got it from some movie, but it could happen) After he bailed out over afghanistan, he claimed that he almost killed osama bin laden, but command told him osama was the leader of resistance to the soviets, so he didn't get him. Then, he hiked through the mountains, (I am lost at this part, you'd think the hiking would keep the weight off him) until he got to friendly lines. And thats just his declassified mission!


Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:08:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Nothing against the 13B, but that isn't an MOS that requires a brain.
You don't think. You set up, aim where told, and fire when ordered.
doesn't require the flexibility of thought required in the manuever realm.

I dont really know what cannon cockers due never been around them. I have served with 11M and 11C and they dont need impressive verbal or math skills to due there job they need good training and good leaders to be effective. I was a 19D armor recon specialist so I have worked with the infantry. I was with 1cav 1/9 cav (div cav) so I have worked with infantry in our troop they looked up to us like gods for some reason. Infantry doesnt need high Asvab scores to be effective they need proper training and good NCOs to be effective.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:11:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
re 3's are waiverable for most branches, doesn't mean they'll waive it but they'll consider it and apply for it. re - 4's different story, only branch that will submitt a waiver for that is army national guard.



The Guard will waiver damn near anything at this point. I am acquainted with a guy who got kicked out of the Navy on a GD for selling drugs who just got in. Granted, the dumb ass is going to be an 88M, but still.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:14:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By firemoon:
Infantry doesnt need high Asvab scores to be effective they need proper training and good NCOs to be effective.



That, motivation, esprit, and a few other things, but not high ASVAB, I agree. BTW I'm a former 0311 bullet stopper myself, so there
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:15:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By firemoon:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Nothing against the 13B, but that isn't an MOS that requires a brain.
You don't think. You set up, aim where told, and fire when ordered.
doesn't require the flexibility of thought required in the manuever realm.

I dont really know what cannon cockers due never been around them. I have served with 11M and 11C and they dont need impressive verbal or math skills to due there job they need good training and good leaders to be effective. I was a 19D armor recon specialist so I have worked with the infantry. I was with 1cav 1/9 cav (div cav) so I have worked with infantry in our troop they looked up to us like gods for some reason. Infantry doesnt need high Asvab scores to be effective they need proper training and good NCOs to be effective.



I got a score on the ASVAB that I won't repeat because you'd think I was lying, and I went in as an 11B...accompanied by much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the part of my parents and recruiter.

Forrest Gump to the contrary, the best soldiers I knew were the SMART ones, not the ones from the hills and hollers of West-by-god whose idea of intellectual stimulation was watching the WWF.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:15:43 PM EDT
Some people do get screwed by the military standards...a chick I met at MEPS had tried to get in the Army for 5 years but could not pass the ASVAB because she just got too nervous. She wasn't a genius probably but she scored well on the pre-ASVAB stuff (70-80 percentile) she just froze when the test came. It really made me sad seeing someone that wanted in so much being held back for something that stupid when she was in very good physical shape and all of that stuff (she could do almost 40 pushups, etc (for a girl...thats about double passing....I think thats their max or thereabouts)...

Also, I had a friend that was a HS dropout and is now a computer geek in the Army...he was homeschooled and took college class/got GED, he's smarter than most people but some would have preferred he be denied entry (those that only want HS grads).
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:16:51 PM EDT
The Guard will waiver damn near anything at this point.

That's a fact.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:18:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
They need to start waiving some of their medical history rules. They are a wee bit strict IMHO.



No Shit.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:20:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DOW:
You know what, so long as they don't let in criminals I don't think it's such a bad thing. Calculus isn't exactly a requirement to be a damn good infantryman.



I was in the Marines back in the days when a lot of kids got a choice between enlisting or jail. Some of them turned out remarkably well. Let's face it, the average grunt isn't someone you want to introduce to your sister. And doesn't need to be.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:24:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

Originally Posted By DOW:
You know what, so long as they don't let in criminals I don't think it's such a bad thing. Calculus isn't exactly a requirement to be a damn good infantryman.



I was in the Marines back in the days when a lot of kids got a choice between enlisting or jail. Some of them turned out remarkably well. Let's face it, the average grunt isn't someone you want to introduce to your sister. And doesn't need to be.



"Show me the brig. I want to see real Marines"--C. Puller
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:24:30 PM EDT
What about EYESIGHT! I can still shoot damnit.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:38:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
They need to start waiving some of their medical history rules. They are a wee bit strict IMHO.



+1

I went into the Marine recruitment office last week and got a big "Thanks, but no thanks" -Permanent medical disqualifier

Do all the branches have the same medical disqualifiers?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:50:18 PM EDT
When I enlisted in the Navy back in 99 they were accepting non-HS grads and non-GED holders...they spent an extra 2-3 weeks at the beginning of Basic attending a GED class, and then went on to complete the rest of training.

Seemed to work pretty well back then.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:47:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
I was in the Marines back in the days when a lot of kids got a choice between enlisting or jail. Some of them turned out remarkably well.



It was the same way when I went in the Army, except none of the ones I knew ever turned out well. And it sucked because we had to guard our laundry like a hawk.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:59:00 PM EDT
I thought this happened a few years ago...?

students.washington.edu/greenbam/humor/veryspecial.html
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 9:02:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DOW:
You know what, so long as they don't let in criminals I don't think it's such a bad thing. Calculus isn't exactly a requirement to be a damn good infantryman.



Where have you been? You can get a waiver for all sorts of prior records.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 9:13:52 PM EDT
OK This is what is really going on.

You can enlist without HS diploma or GED (After first passing the ASVAB) but must complete you GED before shipping out to Basic Training.

The military will even pay you to get your GED.

I think it is great, just because you didn't fininsh HS, dosen't mean you will not make a good warior.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 4:50:14 AM EDT
Those boys will do fine. Nothing brings out excellence in males more than facing danger and death.
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