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Posted: 9/13/2005 8:53:44 AM EDT
U.S. Air Force Eyes Demo Program On Anti-Ship Weapons
09/13/2005 10:12:18 AM
By Marc Selinger

The U.S. Air Force plans to launch a program in early 2007 to examine weapons that could be adapted to destroy large, heavily defended ships at long ranges, an industry official said Sept. 12.

Air Combat Command is spearheading efforts to begin the advanced concept technology demonstration (ACTD) program on maritime interdiction, said Ed Whalen, director of strike weapons business development at Lockheed Martin.

Although the ACTD is not geared specifically toward Lockheed Martin's Joint Air to Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM), Lockheed Martin expects its cruise missile will play a role in the program because of its stealth and long range, Whalen said.

"JASSM looks to play in that," Whalen said at a press briefing at the Air Force Association's Air & Space Conference. "Going against capital ships in a high-threat environment, there's no other missile that's as survivable as JASSM."

JASSM has a range of more than 200 nautical miles and is designed mainly to destroy high-value, heavily defended targets on the ground, such as air defense sites and hardened bunkers. Lockheed Martin is under contract with the Air Force to develop an extended range version (JASSM-ER) that can travel more than 500 nautical miles. Lockheed Martin is spending its own money on JASSM-XR, an extra-extended-range variant, which would have a range of 1,000 nautical miles or more.

Lockheed Martin, meanwhile, is monitoring the results of another Air Force ACTD that is looking at incorporating data links into weapons, Whalen told reporters. Lockheed Martin hopes to begin feeding those ACTD results into JASSM later this year.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 8:58:31 AM EDT
ooops, too little too late.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:03:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By phatmax:
ooops, too little too late.



I just want whatever that comes out of this to be VLS compatible.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:06:10 AM EDT
It's too slow.

There are some Hypersonic cruise missiles in the works that make the Sunburn look like a snail. They can cover a 1000 kilometers in mere minutes.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:08:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By phatmax:
ooops, too little too late.



I just want whatever that comes out of this to be VLS compatible.



That cruise missile looks identical to a stealth cruise missile we had in the Nuke's building at EOD school back in 96. If its the same, it will need a whole new VLS system to launch it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:13:23 AM EDT
Speed is nice, and it's necessary when you're talking about hitting a moving target at 500 miles.

Where are these hypersonic missiles of which you speak? I'd like to read up on them.

As long as they are VLS capable of course.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:21:03 AM EDT
Here is a link to one, at the side of the page is a link to several other programs. Some of the programs have been since canceled but several are still being tested as I have seen some announcements time to time on the DoD Early Bird news.

HyStrike
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:21:47 AM EDT
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:22:47 AM EDT
Bullshit. Just buy them from the Russkies. For the R&D funds the Chair Farce will spend in ACTD, the DoD could buy hundreds of very capable ASCMs from Ivan. Some of the Russkie missiles, even the old ones are so good, they still pose a very serious threat to our surface forces...and that is all I'm going to say about that...

I smell a rat anyway. Why would the White-Scarf-Fighter-Mafa Boyz in Blew be interested in interdicting shipping? I mean...it isn't tear-assing around in a furball at 30kft so who gives a shit? Shame on the Navy for letting the Harpoon die. Now that mission must be done with A/C.

Finally, the JASSM as with any KE gravity or propelled weapon is counterable with good defensive measures. Stealth simply means that the ship's sensors will detect the weapons later.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:23:23 AM EDT
...and another.....

HyFly
ATK is supporting the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and Office of Naval Research (ONR) on the HyFly program, a key DoD effort to develop technology for a time-critical strike missile. Using an innovative flight-test technique, ATK is providing key program risk reduction by carrying out a series of flight experiments employing low-cost, two-stage sounding rockets to transport airframe-integrated, scramjet-powered missile demonstrators to appropriate hypersonic speeds and altitudes.

Initial flight tests of an un-powered airframe at Mach 6 and approximately 60,000 feet have been highly successful. The next series of tests will use a fully operational scramjet engine integrated to the airframe.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:25:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:25:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
Here is a link to one, at the side of the page is a link to several other programs. Some of the programs have been since canceled but several are still being tested as I have seen some announcements time to time on the DoD Early Bird news.

HyStrike


Gracias.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:27:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



The new Ohio Class SSGN conversion rules! Those Trident tubes are going to be filled with some way-cool wacky tech shit!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:29:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



Interesting. One of our scientist/engineers just completed a study on this type of conventional ballistic missile.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:31:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



The new Ohio Class SSGN conversion rules! Those Trident tubes are going to be filled with some way-cool wacky tech shit!



Hmmmm...I don't know about that. I'll bet the F/A-18 boyz would have something to say on this subject!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:34:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



GPS guided, ie not anti-ship capable. Besides it's ours; hopefully, we don't have to worry about bubbleheads accidentally shooting one of our ships. Of course, they are bubbleheads...
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:34:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Hmmmm...I don't know about that. I'll bet the F/A-18 boyz would have something to say on this subject!




What, they're gonna want to have the SuperBug be launchable from a Trident?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:35:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



The new Ohio Class SSGN conversion rules! Those Trident tubes are going to be filled with some way-cool wacky tech shit!



Hmmmm...I don't know about that. I'll bet the F/A-18 boyz would have something to say on this subject!



I have heard rumor they are trying to get a Super-Hornet to fit in the tubes, launch will be bad but recovery is going to be a bitch!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 9:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
JASSM has a range of more than 200 nautical miles and is designed mainly to destroy high-value, heavily defended targets on the ground, such as air defense sites and hardened bunkers. Lockheed Martin is under contract with the Air Force to develop an extended range version (JASSM-ER) that can travel more than 500 nautical miles. Lockheed Martin is spending its own money on JASSM-XR, an extra-extended-range variant, which would have a range of 1,000 nautical miles or more.

Hmmm, it would be pretty hilarious to set the enemy ships on fire long before they even detect our forces. Those rangers are way - way beyond the horizon!
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:11:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



GPS guided, ie not anti-ship capable. Besides it's ours; hopefully, we don't have to worry about bubbleheads accidentally shooting one of our ships. Of course, they are bubbleheads...



GPS to the last known posit of the target vessel, then turn on a sensor of some sort. The SSN-19 Shipwreck has had that type of flight profile guidance for many years.

Wonder if the USAF fellows are considering that?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:34:53 AM EDT
It's been 15 years, and the terms "Sunburn" and "Shipwreck" still scare the shit out of me.

God only knows what the next generation will be able to do.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:39:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
It's been 15 years, and the terms "Sunburn" and "Shipwreck" still scare the shit out of me. God only knows what the next generation will be able to do.

Those missiles are easy to defeat. You keep the enemy ships at port by ruining their economy and hitting them dockside.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:49:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 10:59:53 AM EDT by JIMBEAM]
How about some spacebased kinetic or energy weapons? Talk about fast.


While the latest Star Wars sci-fi saga makes its way to a cinema near you, a true-to-life space drama is unfolding as a new breed of weaponry may soon populate the heavens.
Military planners paint a picture of inevitability concerning space weapons. Certain experts foresee a proliferation of anti-satellites and space mines. Others suggest urgent need for totally secure, jam-proof satellite links along with a squadron of quick-reaction space bombers.
Perhaps more "out there", but openly discussed by military space strategists, are orbiting laser and particle beam weapons that focus killer rays of energy to zap satellites, enemy warheads in flight, or even blast targets on Earth.
Then there are the thunder rods. Tossed down from orbit, these long and slender kinetic-energy devices use their own mass and very high velocity to create a destructive effect.
Lastly, for those looking for a celestial "big whopper" of a weapon, how about using natural meteoroids? Good-sized fireballs of metal could be sent to Earth, aimed at targets of choice. These impactors leave a nice crater. Better yet, they leave no radioactive debris.
Space-based weapons are the topic of a new report: Space Weapons - Earth Wars. Authored by think-tank experts at RAND -- dedicated to help improve policy and decisionmaking through research and analysis -- the just released study was prepared for the U.S. Air Force.


http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_war_020515-1.html
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 10:50:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



GPS guided, ie not anti-ship capable. Besides it's ours; hopefully, we don't have to worry about bubbleheads accidentally shooting one of our ships. Of course, they are bubbleheads...



GPS to the last known posit of the target vessel, then turn on a sensor of some sort. The SSN-19 Shipwreck has had that type of flight profile guidance for many years.

Wonder if the USAF fellows are considering that?


SLIRBM doesn't imply anti-ship capability. Especially in the context of the article, ie 20m CEP. Also there was nothing about an additional seeker, ie RF, IR, EO or Radar to engage a moving target such as a ship.

I thought Shipwreck had an inertial capablity?

GPS is just another way of doing what we already do. Either waypoint or seeker turn on. If you fly out to the last known GPS position and then turn on your seeker, chances are you'll be past it. That means you need to backtrack based on time/distance of both your missile and your target. Then you have to take into account the coverage of your seeker head. That'll give you a set of coordinates for seeker turn on. Which is basically what we already do without GPS. Still no way around needing another method of detecting/tracking a moving target.

In the context of the Joint Cruise Missile, I would think if they are going to have a 1000mile missile that they'll leverage what was learned with Tomahawk, ie GPS waypoints at the very least.

Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:26:42 AM EDT
Since we've completely hi-jacked this thread let me pile on. I remembering readingthat the ruskies went to hyper-sonic missiles to help off-set their much more limited seeker technology, any truth to that? Also hyper-sonic tech leaves less time to react but won't it create a bigger singature for IR systems?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:24:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:
Here is one....

Global Strike
ATK, in partnership with Lockheed Martin, is developing a submarine-launched, intermediate-range ballistic missile (SLIRBM) — a supersonic, GPS-guided, long-range strike missile capable of flying 1,000 nautical miles in 12 minutes to deliver a 1,000-pound warhead to within 20 meters of its target. The 32-inch-diameter missiles are designed to be launched from Trident ballistic missile firing tubes aboard four U.S Navy Ohio-class submarines that are being converted to guided-missile submarines. Their mission is to support special operations and deliver long-range conventional strike weapons.

This weapon system will extend the life of the Trident-class ballistic missile submarine to meet changing threat requirements, while making the most of taxpayer investments in the nation's defense system.

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



GPS guided, ie not anti-ship capable. Besides it's ours; hopefully, we don't have to worry about bubbleheads accidentally shooting one of our ships. Of course, they are bubbleheads...



GPS to the last known posit of the target vessel, then turn on a sensor of some sort. The SSN-19 Shipwreck has had that type of flight profile guidance for many years.

Wonder if the USAF fellows are considering that?


SLIRBM doesn't imply anti-ship capability. Especially in the context of the article, ie 20m CEP. Also there was nothing about an additional seeker, ie RF, IR, EO or Radar to engage a moving target such as a ship.

I thought Shipwreck had an inertial capablity?

GPS is just another way of doing what we already do. Either waypoint or seeker turn on. If you fly out to the last known GPS position and then turn on your seeker, chances are you'll be past it. That means you need to backtrack based on time/distance of both your missile and your target. Then you have to take into account the coverage of your seeker head. That'll give you a set of coordinates for seeker turn on. Which is basically what we already do without GPS. Still no way around needing another method of detecting/tracking a moving target.

In the context of the Joint Cruise Missile, I would think if they are going to have a 1000mile missile that they'll leverage what was learned with Tomahawk, ie GPS waypoints at the very least.




The Russians state that the SS-N-19 uses inertial guidance during its long flight to the target area.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 5:54:38 PM EDT
Take a Tomahawk, stick a HARM missile on the nose.
600 mile cruise, mach 3 kill.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:01:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By phatmax:
ooops, too little too late.



I just want whatever that comes out of this to be VLS compatible.



Ummm dport this is coming from ACC. They are trying to justify bomber or more likely F-22 funding. If the missile is VLS capable it could be launched just as easily from a ship and then who needs the $200M+ F-22 to launch it?
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:01:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo178.jpg



My old USNA Company Officer was (maybe still is) in command of one of the boats undergoing that refit. Way too cool.

I wonder what anti-missile systems the Navy is coming up with in response to all this?

The old adage is still true: Two kinds of ships in the world: Submarines and targets.



Do you mean Rusty Smith??
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:03:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By phatmax:
ooops, too little too late.



I just want whatever that comes out of this to be VLS compatible.



Ummm dport this is coming from ACC. They are trying to justify bomber or more likely F-22 funding. If the missile is VLS capable it could be launched just as easily from a ship and then who needs the $200M+ F-22 to launch it?


If it's a variation of the Joint Cruise Missile then VLS capable is a requirement.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:06:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:


GPS guided, ie not anti-ship capable. Besides it's ours; hopefully, we don't have to worry about bubbleheads accidentally shooting one of our ships. Of course, they are bubbleheads...



No longer true young SWO. USAF did a proof of concept test a few months back where they used bomber-dropped JDAMS to sink DIW surface vessels. IIRC, the JDAM seeker head was modified to receive streaming GPS updates from JSTARS. No reason why that capability wouldn't work against moving targets.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 6:21:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2005 6:40:48 PM EDT by dport]

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By dport:


GPS guided, ie not anti-ship capable. Besides it's ours; hopefully, we don't have to worry about bubbleheads accidentally shooting one of our ships. Of course, they are bubbleheads...



No longer true young SWO. USAF did a proof of concept test a few months back where they used bomber-dropped JDAMS to sink DIW surface vessels. IIRC, the JDAM seeker head was modified to receive streaming GPS updates from JSTARS. No reason why that capability wouldn't work against moving targets.


In that case the JSTARS was actually the active seeker and basically datalinked back to the JDAM using GPS as then targeting medium. And I believe that target was moving along a a whopping 5 knots.

GPS alone cannot guide a munition to a moving target.

Again we were talking about, in this particular case, a SLIRBM, not the Air Force's new cruise missile. We are talking about a deep strike missile not a "tactical" missile, if you will. No mention was made of being able to retarget the SLIRBM mid course.
ETA: You know a data link capability would be interesting. I just took another look at it at a 1000 miles it isn't as deep strike as I first thought AND since it's coming from the sea the actual distance behind the lines wouldn't be that much, but you'd still need some sort of platform to "spot" for it. And a JSTARS in a heavily defended environment is a sitting duck. I wonder if that Kh31 would go after a JSTAR?

Although, you make an interesting point. I wonder if Tactical Tomahawk could be refreshed that fast?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:11:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
In that case the JSTARS was actually the active seeker and basically datalinked back to the JDAM using GPS as then targeting medium. And I believe that target was moving along a a whopping 5 knots.

GPS alone cannot guide a munition to a moving target.

Again we were talking about, in this particular case, a SLIRBM, not the Air Force's new cruise missile. We are talking about a deep strike missile not a "tactical" missile, if you will. No mention was made of being able to retarget the SLIRBM mid course.
ETA: You know a data link capability would be interesting. I just took another look at it at a 1000 miles it isn't as deep strike as I first thought AND since it's coming from the sea the actual distance behind the lines wouldn't be that much, but you'd still need some sort of platform to "spot" for it. And a JSTARS in a heavily defended environment is a sitting duck. I wonder if that Kh31 would go after a JSTAR?

Although, you make an interesting point. I wonder if Tactical Tomahawk could be refreshed that fast?



I thinkt that maybe we were talking about 2 different weapons. I was talking about the original post and using JSTARS to update JASSM and possibly the ACTD the USAF is evaluating, not the SLIRBM. This is a concept that has tremendous potential, including all weather precision strike against moving targets - something that is pretty tough to do with low clouds. If the JSTARS mission can be performed by a small, high altitude, high endurance UAV it becomes even more attractive.

You are correct that streaming updates to an IRBM would be problematic at best because of closure rate.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:
I thinkt that maybe we were talking about 2 different weapons. I was talking about the original post and using JSTARS to update JASSM and possibly the ACTD the USAF is evaluating, not the SLIRBM. This is a concept that has tremendous potential, including all weather precision strike against moving targets - something that is pretty tough to do with low clouds. If the JSTARS mission can be performed by a small, high altitude, high endurance UAV it becomes even more attractive.

You are correct that streaming updates to an IRBM would be problematic at best because of closure rate.


I think so too sir. Agreed the concept does have potential. I just wonder how resistant it is in a EA environment.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:10:40 PM EDT
(from atk.com)
Scramfire
Scramfire is the application of scramjet technology to U.S. Army direct-fire and indirect-fire applications and U.S. Navy extended range munitions. A Scramfire application, as envisioned by the U.S. Army, would offer revolutionary advances in lethality, lethality at range, and elimination of depleted uranium as a penetrator material. For the U.S. Navy, Scramfire will facilitate a next generation of extended range munitions for naval surface-fire support with five-inch guns.

For multi-services, Scramfire offers a near-term and affordable development path that supports, ensures, or replaces the capabilities of electro-magnetic guns.

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