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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/6/2002 8:09:54 AM EST
We've all been suckered. They spend billions of our taxes, make old men drop their pants and they feel up women, and what do we get? The LAX Airport Shooting. LAX Airport shooting: - Egyptian gunman - shooting Jews - from the middle east - we won't say it's terrorism. Why? We can't admit $$billions in "security" didn't work. "Their" answer? MORE security!!! Lol. It's just like gun control - if some fails, enact more. If that fails, more still!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:17:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 8:48:08 AM EST by Jarhead_22]
A killer who is willing to give his life for his cause is very difficult, nearly impossible, to stop. As the guy at the El Al counter demonstrated, laws don't help. It takes someone willing to put the killer down like a dog in the dirt, and take a beating to do it, if necessary.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:19:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: We've all been suckered. They spend billions of our taxes, make old men drop their pants and they feel up women, and what do we get? The LAX Airport Shooting. LAX Airport shooting: - Egyptian gunman - shooting Jews - from the middle east - we won't say it's terrorism. Why? We can't admit $$billions in "security" didn't work. "Their" answer? MORE security!!! Lol. It's just like gun control - if some fails, enact more. If that fails, more still!
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Getting the message???
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 8:52:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 9:02:32 AM EST
Why is EL-AL the only airline in the U.S. that has armed security guards in civillian clothes. This is the reason that the Egyptian gunman (terrorist) was stopped!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 9:15:05 AM EST
Martyrs are very hard to stop. But my question is how does taking away finger nail clippers etc having an effect on stopping terrorists, other than justifying the billions of $$$ spent? Terrorists have the advantage of observing and watching for weaknesses, and expoiting them. Remember the old saying of "where there is a will, there is a way."
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 10:28:56 AM EST
So your solution is? less sucurity? what's your point? (do you have one?)
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 11:23:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By Avtomat: So your solution is? less sucurity? what's your point? (do you have one?)
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The point is Oceania is at war.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 11:30:42 AM EST
In my opinion, our government is at least partly responsible for the latest brand of "in-house" terrorism. In the last few years, they've allowed many people to emigrate to the U.S. from countries and territories that simply [b]DO NOT LIKE US.[/b] Also, I've heard reported that there are around 300,000 people on various types of visas, currently in this country, that INS cannot find! It seems to me that our own government has undermined our security with its loose immigration policies.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 11:48:20 AM EST
"At the end of the most grandiose plans and strategies is a soldier walking point." --Harry G. Summers
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 12:05:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By SWS: In my opinion, our government is at least partly responsible for the latest brand of "in-house" terrorism. In the last few years, they've allowed many people to emigrate to the U.S. from countries and territories that simply [b]DO NOT LIKE US.[/b] Also, I've heard reported that there are around 300,000 people on various types of visas, currently in this country, that INS cannot find! It seems to me that our own government has undermined our security with its loose immigration policies.
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And the airlines are instrumental in putting pressure on the gov't to not even actually APPLY airport procedures, letting questionables pass, to keep the waits down.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 12:36:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By Maynard: I think most of us here get the message loud and clear but it's the rest of the population that doesn't seem to have a clue and doesn't seem to want one.
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Not only do they not have or want a clue, they will actively fight for the Government to take away a clue from people who have one. I'd say the point is for security to stop confiscating nail clippers and strip searching old people, and start paying much closer attention to Arabs. It also wouldn't hurt if the INS/FBI got a clue and started cracking down on foreigners. We're spending billions of taxpayer dollars looking in the wrong places, and there is still nothing stopping another 9/11 style terrorist attack. Are martyrs really that hard to stop? I have heard of several instances in Isreal where would-be martyrs were stopped by concealed-carrry citizens. This is what it takes. If the government will not allow this, then maybe that's part of the problem.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:20:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:29:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: The point is Oceania is at war.
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With Eurasia, right? Or is it, umm... This is confusing! -Troy
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You must be some kind of Eastasian spy! Oceania is at war with Eastasia and ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 2:36:21 PM EST
You will also notice that the pussy mayor of LA started right away with "there are too many guns out there..., etc." All the measures are bs. The ElAl guard did the most that is possible. And, I suspect he sustained more injury than necessary because he had to hesitate for an instant because of all the nonsense regulations he would expect to face. Yes, minus the b.s. regulations, if one of us were there with a legal ccw, and some experience, there would have been one more gun on the side of the right. But, we all know how the spin on all this will go.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 3:19:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zak:
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio: The point is Oceania is at war.
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With Eurasia, right? Or is it, umm... This is confusing! -Troy
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You must be some kind of Eastasian spy! Oceania is at war with Eastasia and ALWAYS HAS BEEN.
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But war is peace!
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:21:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Avtomat: So your solution is? less sucurity? what's your point? (do you have one?)
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[b]My Solutions[/b] - no more feel good "security" - arm the pilots - allow CCW holders to carry aboard - national CCW - profile real terrorists - young arab men - secure our borders - track immigrants on visas [b]My Point(s)[/b] - the American public has been suckered - the so called Security Improvements are a joke - the billions of $$ we are spending are wasted - the countless hours lost due to increased "security" is a waste [b]Why "Security" is a joke"[/b] - searching 3 year olds won't stop anything - searching 90 year olds won't either - the next terrorist won't use shoe bombs. It's a waste of time making me take my shoes off. Duh. - I've flown over 100 flights. I've got a National Security Clearance. I'm a CCW holder. I'M NOT THE TERRORIST. LEAVE ME ALONE. Go after the real bad guys.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:40:00 PM EST
If it happened inside the security gate we would have something to complain about. But it happened outside the gate, which is no different than if it happened in the Sear's parking lot or inside Wally World. Those areas are unprotected.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:44:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By mattja: Those areas are unprotected.
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Random Checkpoints will cure that.......
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 5:49:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By mattja: Those areas are unprotected.
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Random Checkpoints will cure that.......
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Just like they [i]solve[/i] drunk driving, right?
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:03:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By mattja: Those areas are unprotected.
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Random Checkpoints will cure that.......
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Just like they [i]solve[/i] drunk driving, right?
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Absa-certainly.......Don't you see? Random check-points would make us FEEL safer??
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:06:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/6/2002 6:39:11 PM EST by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By mattja: Those areas are unprotected.
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Random Checkpoints will cure that.......
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Just like they [i]solve[/i] drunk driving, right?
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Absa-certainly.......Don't you see? Random check-points would make us FEEL safer??
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Yep. Say, isn't this where Barry Manilow breaks out in a verse of "Feelings........"? Well, it's for the children, afterall.
Link Posted: 7/6/2002 6:31:28 PM EST
Heh, Heh...
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:41:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/7/2002 3:42:18 AM EST by Avtomat]
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: [b]My Solutions[/b] - no more feel good "security" - arm the pilots - allow CCW holders to carry aboard - national CCW - profile real terrorists - young arab men - secure our borders - track immigrants on visas
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Which one of these would have stopped the July 5th incident?
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:51:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: We can't admit $$billions in "security" didn't work.
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Did this guy take a plane and fly it into a building? Nope. Did he kill many people? Nope. Was what he did preventable? Nope. Unless you would suggest searching EVERY car that enters the airport, you are dead wrong on the security measures having no effect. They killed this guy after he shot 2, not 20! Think about how long it would take for you to kill 15 people with 2 pistols, they got him very fast!
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:54:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: Lol. It's just like gun control - if some fails, enact more. If that fails, more still!
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No matter how many cuts I make, this fvcking board is still too short!
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:54:55 AM EST
The only one that might have stopped the LAX murders would have been keeping middle eastern terrorist moslems OUT of the country!! These people are the enemy - we are at war. Very difficult to prevent in truth. There will be more. Hopefully (but unlikely) our response will be as good as the security guys was! I am in favor of deporting ALL of these creeps!
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 8:20:26 AM EST
DON'T YOU SEE?! Thanks to our AWBan, the shooter had a limited capacity magazine so he didn't kill more than 10 Jews. The airport didn't have face recognition technology either. If it had, they computers would have recognized the shooter as the guy who was not going along with his normal daily habits that have been logged with the security cameras throughout the city so the computers should've knowned he was dangerous because he was middle-eastern and they are known to hate Jews and have interests in handling firearms which should've been found anyway b/c they should strip search anyone who comes anywhere near an airport and look for weapons and if the gun would have been registered to the gov't in a billion dollar system the cameras in the terminal could have matched the rifling grooves in the projectile when it was flying through the air with a registered ballistic fingerprint so the security system could have zapped the bullet in mid air with billion dollar laser system before it hit its target
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 8:32:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Balzac72: Unless you would suggest searching EVERY car that enters the airport, you are dead wrong on the security measures having no effect. They killed this guy after he shot 2, not 20! Think about how long it would take for you to kill 15 people with 2 pistols, they got him very fast!
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Actually, you're incorrect here by suggesting the armed security guard was in any way a result of 9/11. El Al is still the ONLY airline to employ armed guards, and THAT is the reason only two died instead of twenty. 9/11-inspired security was completely useless in this instance--including, it seems, the "your papers please" security in order to park.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 10:44:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Avtomat:
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: [b]My Solutions[/b] - no more feel good "security" - arm the pilots - allow CCW holders to carry aboard - national CCW - profile real terrorists - young arab men - secure our borders - track immigrants on visas
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Which one of these would have stopped the July 5th incident?
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[b]These would have had an effect[/b] (stop it from happening or ensuring the shooter is stopped quickly) Profiling CCW Securing our borders Tracking immigrants (we tried to deport this guy before)
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 11:12:13 AM EST
[b]These would have had an effect[/b] (stop it from happening or ensuring the shooter is stopped quickly) Profiling CCW Securing our borders Tracking immigrants (we tried to deport this guy before)
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I don't see how this would have stopped the attack. Profiling - the guy wasn't on a plane, he hadn't passed thru a check point, he was at a ticket counter, no different then if he had been at a Circle K or Bank counter. Unless you set up a checkpoint at the entrance to the airport and "closely monitor" the young Arab males, it won't do any good. Besides, what aspect of profiling would have prevented this? He didn't have any warning signs. CCW- I don't see how this would have affected it either. There already were some people there armed with weapons and they got him pretty quickly. You had mentoined how the sercurity guard was concerned about regulations. I don't think a person is going to think about this when shots are being fired. You were not there, I was not there so no one can say what the situation was and why they allowed the guy to fire off 10 to 12 shots (which probably took what, 5 to 6 seconds?) The news story did say that two security guards and a cilivian or two wrestled with him for awhile, it's possible they couldn't fire right away because too many friendlies were right next to him. He was the fourth person in line when he started to fire, probably not a good situation for the sercurity guards as they probably were concerned (rightfully so) about firing into a crowd but again I am not going to make a blanket judgement since I was not there. Securing our borders - Shooter was here on a legal visa, he was a 10 year resident of California. How could you secure the border against a guy who has lived here for 10 years legally? What reason would we have for preventing this guy from living here in 1992? He appears in police files three times, once for a domestic dispute in 1996 and twice he was the victim, once of a robbery and once of a fraud. Not a whole lot there to cause any suspicsions. How would tracking immigrants help in this case? What would they track him and what did he do to get deported or get arrested? nothing. Even if they had FBI agents following him 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, it still would not have prevented this. How about we come up with some real sercurity that will do something instead of just coming up with some feel good laws that do not address the issues here?
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 11:19:50 AM EST
Dunno what all the fuss is about - this seems so simple. The Mayor said the US was founded on Liberty, Security and Diversity. The hate criminal avoided deportation via the Diversity Lottery, so that's good. Since there's lots of Liberty still left in California, you guys could always just trade more essential Liberty for some temporary Security. That way Diversity wouldn't be negatively affected and the children would probably be much safer. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 12:04:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/7/2002 12:05:32 PM EST by Avtomat]
Originally Posted By guardian855:
[b]These would have had an effect[/b] (stop it from happening or ensuring the shooter is stopped quickly) Profiling CCW Securing our borders Tracking immigrants (we tried to deport this guy before)
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I don't see how this would have stopped the attack. Profiling - the guy wasn't on a plane, he hadn't passed thru a check point, he was at a ticket counter, no different then if he had been at a Circle K or Bank counter. Unless you set up a checkpoint at the entrance to the airport and "closely monitor" the young Arab males, it won't do any good.
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But he wasn't young, he was 41(?) Not a "typical" arab terrorist profile, so a even profiling wouldn't have worked.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 12:08:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/7/2002 12:09:22 PM EST by guardian855]
Originally Posted By Avtomat:
I don't see how this would have stopped the attack. Profiling - the guy wasn't on a plane, he hadn't passed thru a check point, he was at a ticket counter, no different then if he had been at a Circle K or Bank counter. Unless you set up a checkpoint at the entrance to the airport and "closely monitor" the young Arab males, it won't do any good.
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But he wasn't young, he was 41(?) Not a "typical" arab terrorist profile, so a even profiling wouldn't have worked.
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That was exactly my point, thanks Avtomat People critize the security we have and then come up with their own solutions which won't do anything.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 2:41:28 PM EST
if it aint from america, it needs not be here!
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:00:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By avengeusa: if it aint from america, it needs not be here!
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You a direct decendant of people who crossed the land bridge or something? If not, you're just an immigrant like the rest of us, so shut your pie hole.
Link Posted: 7/7/2002 3:01:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Zak:
Originally Posted By avengeusa: if it aint from america, it needs not be here!
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You a direct decendant of people who crossed the land bridge or something? If not, you're just an immigrant like the rest of us, so shut your pie hole.
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I don't know about you, but I was born here. The times they are a changin.
Link Posted: 7/8/2002 3:12:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By guardian855: That was exactly my point, thanks Avtomat People critize the security we have and then come up with their own solutions which won't do anything.
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Even if my solutions wouldn't work, I'm not wrong to critize. Why are we spending billions of dollars, shredding our rights, deeming travels, wasting countless productive hours, all for so called "security" that doesn't work. For those that think the goal of security is to secure the plane, I guess it's a success (this time). For those who's friends or relatives get killed in the ticketing area, I'd bet they would call "security" an resolute failure. Isn't all this "security" supposed to make the flyer safe? It hasn't, and it won't.
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