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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/12/2002 4:15:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2002 4:17:39 PM EST by agtm]
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10090-2002Aug12.html[/url] why o why can't we just close the borders completely, no LEGAL immigration for a while the first time this topic came up here i thought it was a fair idea, i've since changed my mind
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 4:34:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/12/2002 4:37:18 PM EST by ChrisLe]
The government says the security system will target: –All nationals of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria. –Nonimmigrant aliens whom the State Department determines to present an elevated national security risk, based on criteria reflecting current intelligence
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Interesting. No mention whatsoever of fingerprinting Saudi Arabians. Considering the majority of the 09/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, I wonder when will our Govt will finally stop kissing Saudi ass.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 4:41:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:
The government says the security system will target: –All nationals of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria. –Nonimmigrant aliens whom the State Department determines to present an elevated national security risk, based on criteria reflecting current intelligence
View Quote
Interesting. No mention whatsoever of fingerprinting Saudi Arabians. Considering the majority of the 09/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, I wonder when will our Govt will finally stop kissing Saudi ass.
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Maybe after a few hundred thousand people die.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:25:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By agtm:
Originally Posted By ChrisLe:
The government says the security system will target: –All nationals of Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria. –Nonimmigrant aliens whom the State Department determines to present an elevated national security risk, based on criteria reflecting current intelligence
View Quote
Interesting. No mention whatsoever of fingerprinting Saudi Arabians. Considering the majority of the 09/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, I wonder when will our Govt will finally stop kissing Saudi ass.
View Quote
Maybe after a few hundred thousand people die.
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I'd say that's about right.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:28:08 PM EST
Meanwhile, RikWriter has absolute faith in how theBush Administration is handling this whole affair.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:58:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/13/2002 8:52:44 AM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 6:56:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By agtm: why o why can't we just close the borders completely, no LEGAL immigration for a while
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I wonder how our founding fathers would feel about that, considering this country was built by immigrants, a large chunk of whom came from countries at war with us. I feel strongly about this issue, not just because I can trace my families immigrant roots but because this seems rather... well... unfree? Close immigration to prevent terrorism, ban drugs to prevent social ills (hey it was done awhile ago to Al K. Hall), confiscate guns to prevent violence, limit ownership of cars to prevent injuries... where do we draw the line? I say put each immigrant under the microscope and vet them sufficiently, then let either let them in or send them back or toss 'em in jail. It may seem like a good idea now with all that emotion boiling our blood, but give tyranny an inch and you know it'll take far more.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 4:28:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By sesat_ram:
Originally Posted By agtm: why o why can't we just close the borders completely, no LEGAL immigration for a while
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I wonder how our founding fathers would feel about that, considering this country was built by immigrants, a large chunk of whom came from countries at war with us. I feel strongly about this issue, not just because I can trace my families immigrant roots but because this seems rather... well... unfree? Close immigration to prevent terrorism, ban drugs to prevent social ills (hey it was done awhile ago to Al K. Hall), confiscate guns to prevent violence, limit ownership of cars to prevent injuries... where do we draw the line? I say put each immigrant under the microscope and vet them sufficiently, then let either let them in or send them back or toss 'em in jail. It may seem like a good idea now with all that emotion boiling our blood, but give tyranny an inch and you know it'll take far more.
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Sesat_Ram, I happen to agree with you on the immigration subject. I too am an immigrant (born in Greece) but the question is, Where do we go from here if domestic terrorist acts continue and proliferate? Do we live ala Israel? I think not. It's a difficult moral dilemma. How much more might we have to endure before we need to begin to restrict immigration to those nationalities we consider a threat? I can tell you one thing, we need to start with the Saudis. We MUST stop catering to these animals. To this date, a simple letter of reference from any member of the Saudi royal family, vouching to an individuals identity and integrity, AUTOMATICALLY results in issuance of a US Visa WITHOUT ANY BACKGROUND CHECK by the US Consulate in Saudi Arabia. Considering the fact that there are well over one thousand members of the Royal family, the very possibility of a few hundred of the Royal family being anti-US and issuing a 'letter' to a known terrorist is a very real possibility. Remember, the 09/11 hijackers came here on legal Visas, how do you think that happened? The State Department has a lot of dirty little secrets its hiding. All in the name of diplomatic relations. God forbid we insult a member of the Saudi royal family.....So, where do we go from here?
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 8:14:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 8:26:22 AM EST
tell me about it i was a statistics TA at the university of Iowa for a short while half of the grad students spoke very little english and made zero visible effort to improve, and these guys were teaching even a few of the professors had serious english problems for the grad students who plan on leaving as soon as they nab a degree, i can see why the wouldn't want to spend the time, but for the profs here permanantly there is no excuse they're obviously intelligent and hard working enough to earn a doctorate in statistics, so whats the big problem with learning how to pluralize words in english? they must have grad students proof read their papers before publication i was taking a course from one such person and went in to ask for help after class one day and i got the "smile and nod" whenever i see the "smile and nod" i know it's not going to work
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 8:59:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 1:28:46 PM EST
How many of the 9-11-02 WTC attack hijackers were in the country illegally?
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 5:32:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By agtm: How many of the 9-11-02 WTC attack hijackers were in the country illegally?
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One has to ask why they weren't vetted like Paul's wife, not why foreigners are allowed into this country. It would appear that some groups of foreigners get off easier without stringent checks, namely caucasians (they're supposedly harmless) and those countries we're trying to appease (hint hint). By vetting everyone equally, without giving State and INS discression to pick and choose whom to hassle, they can't do something dumb like give favours to groups.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 6:05:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By sesat_ram:
Originally Posted By agtm: How many of the 9-11-02 WTC attack hijackers were in the country illegally?
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One has to ask why they weren't vetted like Paul's wife, not why foreigners are allowed into this country. It would appear that some groups of foreigners get off easier without stringent checks, namely caucasians (they're supposedly harmless) and those countries we're trying to appease (hint hint). By vetting everyone equally, without giving State and INS discression to pick and choose whom to hassle, they can't do something dumb like give favours to groups.
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sounds too much like "zero tolerance" do they have enough resources to fully screen everyone? probably not. so profiling can allow them to make better use of what resources they have i'd still like to shut it down completely for a while, kind of like taking a toy away from a kid who can't behave with it
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 3:02:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By agtm:
Originally Posted By sesat_ram: By vetting everyone equally, without giving State and INS discretion to pick and choose whom to hassle, they can't do something dumb like give favors to groups.
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sounds too much like "zero tolerance"
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No, this isn't zero tolerance, this is full vigilance. Presuming guilt on an entire group, however, sounds like zero tolerance to me.
do they have enough resources to fully screen everyone? probably not. so profiling can allow them to make better use of what resources they have
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Profiling is abused. You and I know it. And in this day an age, when a terrorist could even be Canadian or Swiss or British, it seems stupid not to closely analyze ALL entrants. Why do I say profiling is abused? Well, those who administer the program get to choose who gets checked. And they're suppose to give breaks to countries who are supposedly harmless. But they'll also slip countries onto that list because of political pressure, because those countries are 'sweet' with us. Like Israel or Saudi. I'm not saying either of those countries are full of terrorists, but I'm stating the simple fact that citizens of those countries can get US visas as easy as pie. Why do I suggest that even a white Swiss/Brit/Canuck could be a terrorist? I grant you that none of those countries have a majority of the population that chants "Death to America" in the streets, but we must not just concern ourselves with large groups.. it should be known that we should also fear the lone random fellow. And if we don't have enough resources to vet each and every person? Well, don't let them in until you do. Have a backlog. Yeah, let it take a long time to get a visa. Since the post-9/11 policy changes in the INS, student visas from significantly Muslim countries take 6months to a year for them to check the background of each applicant instead of the old 4 days, looking up their schools and what they've done on other trips abroad. So yeah we're doing it already, but not to everybody, and definitely omitting a rather dangerous group. I'll go look up the list of people who get this elaborate treatment and post it after breakfast.
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