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Posted: 10/6/2005 1:54:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 1:59:47 AM EDT
Damn...if anyone has pics, I'd love to see them.

The Phalanx should be pretty effective overthere. Could probably even shoot up a SCUD with ease, but SCUDs have such mass and momentum it probably wouldn't make much difference.

Morter defense, huh? Sounds like the insurgents are about to get pwned again.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:01:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:06:46 AM EDT
Damn that's cool
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:11:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
It's a standard US Navy Phalanx mounted on a flatbed truck with a generator and control cab… I have a picture but no access to a scanner till tonight.

ANdy



I'm guessing that it's mounted so it won't shoot up the cab of the truck at 0 degrees elevation?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:11:16 AM EDT
I would love to see it in action!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:18:29 AM EDT
It sounds like a replacement for the Army’s Vulcan Cannon. They’ve been using it for both ADA and Ground targets for decades by now.

Some were towed, others, like the one in the picture, were mounted on M113’s:
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:18:40 AM EDT
won't those depleated uranium rounds have to land somewhere?

I can hear it now................

"200 civilians killed today while exiting a mosque, when it began to rain lead 5 miles from Green Zone"


"In a related story, The American twart a motar round with new secret CAS weapon"

Let 'em have it!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:22:16 AM EDT
Awesome! Mow em down!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:25:39 AM EDT
When I saw Soldiers at a Navy school, I asked WTF. When I was told about the C-RAM, I thought I was the last to know.

The cool thing is it's the 1B version with the Phalanx Thermal Imager and capable against surface, or in this case, ground targets.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:33:48 AM EDT
i was hoping you were gonna say it was being deployed as a crowd control device!


Originally Posted By redfisher:
won't those depleated uranium rounds have to land somewhere?

I can hear it now................

"200 civilians killed today while exiting a mosque, when it began to rain lead 5 miles from Green Zone"


"In a related story, The American twart a motar round with new secret CAS weapon"

Let 'em have it!

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:37:06 AM EDT
the ultimate sentry defense weapon

cool


TXL
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:52:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:
won't those depleated uranium rounds have to land somewhere?

I can hear it now................

"200 civilians killed today while exiting a mosque, when it began to rain lead 5 miles from Green Zone"


"In a related story, The American twart a motar round with new secret CAS weapon"

Let 'em have it!



No D/U. It's loadout will be HE w/ self destruct to prevent collateral damage.

Someone posted an article about it 3-4 months ago and there was an ammo debate.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:52:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:06:17 AM EDT
Not 100% topic related but close, does any other country use a mini gun??
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:09:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
Not 100% topic related but close, does any other country use a mini gun??

These arent mini-guns, they're full size cannons. A mini-gun is <.50cal, usually .223 or .308, but General Dynamics makes a 3-barreled .50cal called the GAU-19.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 4:27:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i was hoping you were gonna say it was being deployed as a crowd control device!


Originally Posted By redfisher:
won't those depleated uranium rounds have to land somewhere?

I can hear it now................

"200 civilians killed today while exiting a mosque, when it began to rain lead 5 miles from Green Zone"


"In a related story, The American twart a motar round with new secret CAS weapon"

Let 'em have it!




This post made me smile. I thank you both.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:04:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:14:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 5:15:02 AM EDT by ARDOC]
Silly question, but you got to figure 3000 20mike mikes have to fall somewhere.

ETA question answered
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:21:40 AM EDT
I seen them at Camp Anaconda/Balad. I also never heard of them shooting any rockets or mortars down, but the system might not have been fully operational yet.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:26:33 AM EDT
remind me never to be under the path of any rocket or mortar...
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:35:03 AM EDT
Vito113

I just found a picture I took while they were installing it, if you want it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:40:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mac130:
Vito113

I just found a picture I took while they were installing it, if you want it.

taggede
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:41:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
When I saw Soldiers at a Navy school, I asked WTF. When I was told about the C-RAM, I thought I was the last to know.

The cool thing is it's the 1B version with the Phalanx Thermal Imager and capable against surface, or in this case, ground targets.



That's awesome!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 8:25:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 8:30:33 AM EDT by mac130]
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 12:53:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 1:14:02 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 12:58:22 PM EDT
tagged for pretty pictures.....



Link Posted: 10/6/2005 1:33:44 PM EDT
That was tried once before. Maybe not exactly, but a similar system.

When I was working at General Dynamics in Pomona, CA back in the day, they were working on a system called DIVAD, which consisted of a twin 35mm gun mounted on a tank chassis and controlled by the Phalanx fire control system and radar. I heard they had major problems with the system. They lost to Ford and eventually the entire project was cancelled.

I hope they have better luck this time around.

Here's a link
M247
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 1:43:33 PM EDT

we also have the 20mm Phalanx and the awesome 30mm Goalkeeper for CIWS on ships, the gun on the Goalkeeper is the GAU-8 out of the A-10!



I worked on Phalanx during the time of the Falklands. We got nervous about the exocet so we upgunned a Phalanx to the GAU 8.....pretty awesome.

We also made VADS back in the day


Bomber

Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:52:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
That was tried once before. Maybe not exactly, but a similar system.

When I was working at General Dynamics in Pomona, CA back in the day, they were working on a system called DIVAD, which consisted of a twin 35mm gun mounted on a tank chassis and controlled by the Phalanx fire control system and radar. I heard they had major problems with the system. They lost to Ford and eventually the entire project was cancelled.

I hope they have better luck this time around.

Here's a link
M247



Thought I read somewhere how the Sgt. York system blew up a latrine or something during it's trials. Locked onto the vent/AC fan thinking it was a helicopter or something.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:09:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2005 3:14:28 PM EDT by mac130]

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
remind me never to be under the path of any rocket or mortar...



Having just left Anaconda/Balad, they need a system like this. With almost daily Mortar/Rocket attacks it will certainly come in handy, if it works.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:12:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
It sounds like a replacement for the Army’s Vulcan Cannon. They’ve been using it for both ADA and Ground targets for decades by now.

Some were towed, others, like the one in the picture, were mounted on M113’s:
forums.filefront.com/gallery/users/8/7/5/6/2/m113_vulcan.jpg



Saw a Vulcan live-fire in a prepared defense during an NTC rotation.................at ground targets! Everyone locked into their final protective fire, went burst/auto, and then these things just went nuts. One of the best light shows Ive ever seen on the ground.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:18:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mac130:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
remind me never to be under the path of any rocket or mortar...



Having just left Anaconda/Balad, they need a system like this. With almost daily Mortar/Rocket attacks it will certainly come in handy, if it works.


Oh, it will work. Just make sure it's turned on. (See USS STARK)
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:19:28 PM EDT
I'll take one, to mount on top of my house!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:19:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i was hoping you were gonna say it was being deployed as a crowd control device!



+1

I'd love to see them use this as a heavy anti-personnel and ant-light vehicle weapon

Hadji wont know what hit them
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 3:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GiggleSmith:
It sounds like a replacement for the Army’s Vulcan Cannon. They’ve been using it for both ADA and Ground targets for decades by now.

Some were towed, others, like the one in the picture, were mounted on M113’s:
forums.filefront.com/gallery/users/8/7/5/6/2/m113_vulcan.jpg



The last Vulcan I saw was a display in front of a unit HQ on Fort Bliss, they haven't been in service since the mid to late 80's IIRC. Technically the Avenger was the replacement for it, even though it's not near as effective on ground targets since it only has an M3P .50 and 200 rounds for ground defense. It would be awesome if they could find some way to vehicle mount the Phalanx, judging by the size it might have to be on an M1 platform though lol.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:06:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRTX:
The last Vulcan I saw was a display in front of a unit HQ on Fort Bliss, they haven't been in service since the mid to late 80's IIRC. Technically the Avenger was the replacement for it, even though it's not near as effective on ground targets since it only has an M3P .50 and 200 rounds for ground defense. It would be awesome if they could find some way to vehicle mount the Phalanx, judging by the size it might have to be on an M1 platform though lol.


M163 was used through the first gulf war, at least. Sounds like the Iraqis might be getting some.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:22:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:
won't those depleated uranium rounds have to land somewhere?

I can hear it now................

"200 civilians killed today while exiting a mosque, when it began to rain lead 5 miles from Green Zone"


"In a related story, The American twart a motar round with new secret CAS weapon"

Let 'em have it!



Army will probably stick to HE
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:31:20 PM EDT
It's like a super beefed up version of the sentry gun from Aliens!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:36:07 PM EDT
Cool your jets on the ground targets guys...

There is really no use for a 20mm gatling gun (not a 'Minigun', miniguns are 7.62mm (there is no 5.56 one in govt use) and are called such because they are a 'mini' version of the M61 20mm, vintage USAF)...

Miniguns still have the same problems as regular machineguns, vis-a-vis barrel temp, cookoffs, etc... The only advantage is rate-of-fire.

The M240's 900+ rd/min ROF is more than enough to deal with any ground threat that one would want to engage with an automatic weapon, if you need an antivehicle weapon we have the M2/M3, or the 25mm on the Bradley & LAV.

A minigun vs ground troops is a waste of ammo, unless it's the only thing you've got on hand (eg using Vulcans for FPF)...
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 5:55:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Cool your jets on the ground targets guys...

There is really no use for a 20mm gatling gun (not a 'Minigun', miniguns are 7.62mm (there is no 5.56 one in govt use) and are called such because they are a 'mini' version of the M61 20mm, vintage USAF)...

Miniguns still have the same problems as regular machineguns, vis-a-vis barrel temp, cookoffs, etc... The only advantage is rate-of-fire.

The M240's 900+ rd/min ROF is more than enough to deal with any ground threat that one would want to engage with an automatic weapon, if you need an antivehicle weapon we have the M2/M3, or the 25mm on the Bradley & LAV.

A minigun vs ground troops is a waste of ammo, unless it's the only thing you've got on hand (eg using Vulcans for FPF)...



Sure its a waste of ammo, but its fun to turn Abdul into red mist!
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:02:36 PM EDT

The last Vulcan I saw was a display in front of a unit HQ on Fort Bliss, they haven't been in service since the mid to late 80's IIRC. Technically the Avenger was the replacement for it,even though it's not near as effective on ground targets since it only has an M3P .50 and 200 rounds for ground defense.



The Avenger System was not ment to be for ground targets. It's based upon the BFV turret drive system and fires Stinger Missiles as Air defense. If you look close, you can find them deployed around DC.

The VADS (Vulcan Air Defense) System is NOT the Phalanx. Phalanx uses a closed loop radar which tracks both target and projectile and relentlessly reduces the error to zero. The VADS was not nearly that sophisticated.


Bomber
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:20:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

The last Vulcan I saw was a display in front of a unit HQ on Fort Bliss, they haven't been in service since the mid to late 80's IIRC. Technically the Avenger was the replacement for it,even though it's not near as effective on ground targets since it only has an M3P .50 and 200 rounds for ground defense.



The Avenger System was not ment to be for ground targets. It's based upon the BFV turret drive system and fires Stinger Missiles as Air defense. If you look close, you can find them deployed around DC.

The VADS (Vulcan Air Defense) System is NOT the Phalanx. Phalanx uses a closed loop radar which tracks both target and projectile and relentlessly reduces the error to zero. The VADS was not nearly that sophisticated.



Oh I know all about the Avenger, since my MOS was 14S Avenger Crewmember. I was just making the comparison that although it replaced the Vulcan in the SHORAD role, it doesn't come anywhere near the Vulcan's ground attack capabilities. There have been some Avengers converted for gun truck use in Iraq though, they removed the right missile pod and moved the M3P up higher so it didn't have the dead zone at the front of the truck like they normally do.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:02:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XeroSygnal:

Originally Posted By mattja:
That was tried once before. Maybe not exactly, but a similar system.

When I was working at General Dynamics in Pomona, CA back in the day, they were working on a system called DIVAD, which consisted of a twin 35mm gun mounted on a tank chassis and controlled by the Phalanx fire control system and radar. I heard they had major problems with the system. They lost to Ford and eventually the entire project was cancelled.

I hope they have better luck this time around.

Here's a link
M247



Thought I read somewhere how the Sgt. York system blew up a latrine or something during it's trials. Locked onto the vent/AC fan thinking it was a helicopter or something.



Could be the radar and fire control system was designed to deal with tracking movement over water and got confused when used on land (too many objects to filter out).
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:03:43 PM EDT
I would NOT want to be living downrange of one of those.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:33:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 3:45:00 AM EDT by Kharn]

Originally Posted By mattja:
Could be the radar and fire control system was designed to deal with tracking movement over water and got confused when used on land (too many objects to filter out).

One problem was the way the Sgt. York tracked helicopters, the rotating fan on the latrine looked exactly like a valid target due to its flashing radar reflection.

Another problem: Since the Sgt. York used the F16's radar (not the Phalanx radar), it had to rotate, and could not be covered by camo netting (the radar used by the losing competitor could be covered and did not visibly rotate since it was designed to operate from within a protective shell, IIRC, it was either the Phalanx's radar, or a modified weather radar), making it a very obvious target for the OpFor during war games. First pass and they'd destroy the Sgt. York, and then start killing the convoy.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:47:45 AM EDT
what aboutyou DONT see in DC?

like on top of th WH?
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 4:03:51 AM EDT
The Phalanx actually has two separate radar systems that interface with each other and the host ship's radar (eg Aegis). There is a search radar and a tracking radar. The Phalanx can be operated with varying degrees of automomy.

It's a good question on how that system might work on land. My guess is it's mission wouldn't be to engage land based targets. It would be working close air defense including motar/artillary rounds. Hard "stops" can be programmed in. An example of this is to keep it from engaging a target that flys by the Ship's Superstructure . They'd probably program it to engage targets above the horizon. I just wonder about the potential collateral damage of 50 HE rnds per sec heading down range.

I'd hate to take friendly fire from that in a helo


Bomber
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:22:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2005 5:25:15 AM EDT by dport]

Originally Posted By thebomber:
The Phalanx actually has two separate radar systems that interface with each other and the host ship's radar (eg Aegis). There is a search radar and a tracking radar. The Phalanx can be operated with varying degrees of automomy.

It's a good question on how that system might work on land. My guess is it's mission wouldn't be to engage land based targets. It would be working close air defense including motar/artillary rounds. Hard "stops" can be programmed in. An example of this is to keep it from engaging a target that flys by the Ship's Superstructure . They'd probably program it to engage targets above the horizon. I just wonder about the potential collateral damage of 50 HE rnds per sec heading down range.

I'd hate to take friendly fire from that in a helo


Bomber


It's a Block IB with the PTI and the capability to engaging ground targets with a pretty good degree of precision. I'm not saying it would engage landbased targets, but the option is there.

Make no mistake, in surface mode, the IB doesn't loose large bursts of 3000 rounds everywhere. If you had to defend the perimeter against an attack, a IB would prove to be handy.

Programable cut-outs are a must.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:35:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 5:37:51 AM EDT
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