Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:19:11 AM EST
The US Army has taken one more step towards further improving the reliability of the controversial M16 and M4 series of rifles, according to a TACOM announcement.

The Army is introducing a new pattern of magazine to supplant the older black, green, and tan follower magazines, respectively. Called the “Enhanced Performance Magazine”, the new pattern sports a tan magazine body and a blue follower, for identification, and boasts a 300% increase in the mean number of rounds between stoppages when used in the M4 Carbine.

Unlike previous magazines, the EPM uses a new, modified magazine body (and therefore not interchangeable, hence the different color) which presents the rounds at a more favorable angle to the rifle’s feedway, improving reliability and, importantly, preventing the hardened steel tips of new 5.56mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Rounds from contacting the aluminum feed ramp section on M4 type rifles.


New magazine is shown in grey, the old in orange - note the different feed lip profiles.

Full Story



ETA: Per the document here, these are being made by Center Industries.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:21:53 AM EST
[#1]
Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now,
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:22:11 AM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:22:34 AM EST
[#3]
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:22:41 AM EST
[#4]
Controversial?  Like, besides to HK fan boys?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:25:47 AM EST
[#5]
Do I need to dump all of my GI mags now and upgrade to these to stay relevant?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:26:35 AM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
View Quote

A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:27:26 AM EST
[#7]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now,
View Quote
My understanding is this mag mimics the gen 3 pmag feed lips.



 
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:28:25 AM EST
[#8]
Watch out. All your shit just turned obsolete. Where do we purchase?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:28:38 AM EST
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?

A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.

Did they change the case dimensions for that?  I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?).
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:30:02 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Did they change the case dimensions for that?  I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?

A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.

Did they change the case dimensions for that?  I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?).

If you look at the CAD in the OP, the angle of the feedlips has been raised to prevent the steel nose of A1 from contacting the aluminum portion of the feedramps.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:30:21 AM EST
[#11]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Did they change the case dimensions for that?  I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?


A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.


Did they change the case dimensions for that?  I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?).
It's primarily a projectile and propellant change.  The hardened tip striking the aluminum M4 ramp was wearing out the M4 feed ramp.  The new mags present the round at a higher angle so the tip of the bullet never strikes the M4 feed ramp.



 
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:30:43 AM EST
[#12]
Feel free to forward your old, obsolete, unreliable GI mags to me for proper disposal...
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:31:21 AM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
View Quote


Some, mostly due to institutional retardation when it comes to maintenance. Most units act like throwing away old shitty mags is a mortal sin, then they wonder why they keep having problems, and start the "herp derp the M4 is a piece of shit".
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:31:32 AM EST
[#14]
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?

This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:33:08 AM EST
[#15]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?



This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
View Quote
It just means you haven't fired enough rounds



 
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:33:32 AM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
View Quote


The very end of the article explains it for me.  They were seeing wear from the A1 ammo on the feed ramps.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:33:37 AM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If you look at the CAD in the OP, the angle of the feedlips has been raised to prevent the steel nose of A1 from contacting the aluminum portion of the feedramps.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?

A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.

Did they change the case dimensions for that?  I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?).

If you look at the CAD in the OP, the angle of the feedlips has been raised to prevent the steel nose of A1 from contacting the aluminum portion of the feedramps.

I see, thanks.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:34:44 AM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
View Quote


When used with M855A1.  This new magazine is specifically to answer problems caused by the new ammo.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:35:03 AM EST
[#19]
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal.

Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:35:38 AM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It just means you haven't fired enough rounds
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?

This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
It just means you haven't fired enough rounds
 


Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:35:53 AM EST
[#21]
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:36:08 AM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
View Quote



"preventing the hardened steel tips of new 5.56mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Rounds from contacting the aluminum feed ramp section on M4 type rifles. "



I bet it has to do more with the new bullet design(s) and less with the reliability of the old magazines.  The old magazines and new bullet designs are probably the issue, judging from the statement.  


Also, I'm betting they probably strengthened the edges of the magazines, so they're less prone to bending.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:37:40 AM EST
[#23]
I'll take 30 st $8 each.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:38:35 AM EST
[#24]
IBTML

(In before the Magpul Lawsuit)
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:38:41 AM EST
[#25]
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:39:05 AM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?

This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
It just means you haven't fired enough rounds
 


Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with?

Or maybe you haven't been firing M855A1 rounds, as the article clearly says the new mag is in response to problems specific to them.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:40:00 AM EST
[#27]
So they bent the mag lips up?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:40:03 AM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?

This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
View Quote


Good is the key word.

These were cherry picked out of supply as the ones in the best shape. One had survived a burning truck.



Then I got chewed out by an E9 for using Lancers, since they didn't match everyone elses mags
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:40:04 AM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now,
View Quote

The Gen 2 PMAGS I was issued in 2012 had no problems feeding M855A1
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:41:20 AM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal.

Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs.
View Quote


Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:41:42 AM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal.

Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs.
View Quote


Not interchangeable with old magazine followers.

The previous gray mags were all the same regardless if they had a black, green, or tan follower.

Now both the follower and mag body changed, and are not interchangeable with old parts, so they changed the color of the mag bodies.

Blue followers go with tan mags.  All other followers go with grey mags.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:43:14 AM EST
[#32]
wouldn't it be easier to redesign 855A1




.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:44:21 AM EST
[#33]
So will the market get flooded with the old mags, or do they all go to a shredder?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:45:17 AM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal.

Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs.


Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework.

and until M855A1 becomes available on the open market (I have only seen 1 round in private hands) we will have no issues with the old style.  

I look forward to the flood of surplus magazines!
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:46:32 AM EST
[#35]
Thanks for all the responses!
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:49:39 AM EST
[#36]
I'll bet there are going to be a boat load of perfectly good old style GI mags hitting the army's dumpsters over the next year or two.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:53:08 AM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'll bet there are going to be a boat load of perfectly good old style GI mags hitting the army's dumpsters over the next year or two.
View Quote


Nope. They'll still be used and the Army will still be trying to figure out why the M4 has feeding problems.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:53:55 AM EST
[#38]
For shit and giggles, we used the USGI mag paracorded to our barracks fridge as a bottle opener that had opened hundreds if not thousands of Beck's bottles on a range day and had zero malfs.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:55:47 AM EST
[#39]
That's great, all my mags are obsolete.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 11:56:55 AM EST
[#40]
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:00:10 PM EST
[#41]
Didn't Okay do a redesigned Enhanced magazine about a year ago?
When they dropped the NHMTG name?
Did that have anything to do with this>
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:01:49 PM EST
[#42]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Didn't Okay do a redesigned Enhanced magazine about a year ago?

When they dropped the NHMTG name?

Did that have anything to do with this>
View Quote




 
Those are their "Surefeed" mags. I think they're just for the civilian market. They use Magpul followers.



Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:02:58 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do I need to dump all of my GI mags now and upgrade to these to stay relevant?
View Quote

Yes
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:03:08 PM EST
[#44]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





and until M855A1 becomes available on the open market (I have only seen 1 round in private hands) we will have no issues with the old style.  



I look forward to the flood of surplus magazines!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal.



Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs.




Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework.


and until M855A1 becomes available on the open market (I have only seen 1 round in private hands) we will have no issues with the old style.  



I look forward to the flood of surplus magazines!




 
Brings the question, will A1 be sold to the pubic?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:04:31 PM EST
[#45]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?



This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
It just means you haven't fired enough rounds

 




Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with?
Seriously.  MRBF on a good mag is 5,000 or so rounds.  If the new mag now has a MRBF of 15,000 rounds that would indicate a 300% improvement.  With either mag, your not experiencing a malfunction just means you haven't fired enough ammo.



 
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:05:38 PM EST
[#46]
So where is everybody buying all this M855A1 ammo?
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:06:36 PM EST
[#47]
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:06:54 PM EST
[#48]
Tan magazine with blue followers?!

I wonder when they will be available for civilians.
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:07:15 PM EST
[#49]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So where is everybody buying all this M855A1 ammo?
View Quote
I think some has made it to gunbroker.  I've seen some projectiles sold off. I probably should have picked some up



 
Link Posted: 7/26/2016 12:08:00 PM EST
[#50]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?


A1 has been chewing up the feedramps.
So, with these magazines and the changed presentation angle of the rounds, would M4 feed ramps no longer be necessary?  One wonders.
 
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top