User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:19:11 AM EST
The US Army has taken one more step towards further improving the reliability of the controversial M16 and M4 series of rifles, according to a TACOM announcement.
The Army is introducing a new pattern of magazine to supplant the older black, green, and tan follower magazines, respectively. Called the “Enhanced Performance Magazine”, the new pattern sports a tan magazine body and a blue follower, for identification, and boasts a 300% increase in the mean number of rounds between stoppages when used in the M4 Carbine. Unlike previous magazines, the EPM uses a new, modified magazine body (and therefore not interchangeable, hence the different color) which presents the rounds at a more favorable angle to the rifle’s feedway, improving reliability and, importantly, preventing the hardened steel tips of new 5.56mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Rounds from contacting the aluminum feed ramp section on M4 type rifles. 
New magazine is shown in grey, the old in orange - note the different feed lip profiles. Full Story ETA: Per the document here, these are being made by Center Industries. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:21:53 AM EST
[#1]
Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now,
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:22:11 AM EST
[#2]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:22:34 AM EST
[#3]
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:22:41 AM EST
[#4]
Controversial? Like, besides to HK fan boys?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:25:47 AM EST
[#5]
Do I need to dump all of my GI mags now and upgrade to these to stay relevant?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:26:35 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:27:26 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now, |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:28:25 AM EST
[#8]
Watch out. All your shit just turned obsolete. Where do we purchase?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:28:38 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. Did they change the case dimensions for that? I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:30:02 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they change the case dimensions for that? I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. Did they change the case dimensions for that? I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?). If you look at the CAD in the OP, the angle of the feedlips has been raised to prevent the steel nose of A1 from contacting the aluminum portion of the feedramps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:30:21 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did they change the case dimensions for that? I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. Did they change the case dimensions for that? I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?). |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:30:43 AM EST
[#12]
Feel free to forward your old, obsolete, unreliable GI mags to me for proper disposal...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:31:21 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? Some, mostly due to institutional retardation when it comes to maintenance. Most units act like throwing away old shitty mags is a mortal sin, then they wonder why they keep having problems, and start the "herp derp the M4 is a piece of shit". |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:31:32 AM EST
[#14]
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag?
This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:33:08 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag? This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:33:32 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? The very end of the article explains it for me. They were seeing wear from the A1 ammo on the feed ramps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:33:37 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you look at the CAD in the OP, the angle of the feedlips has been raised to prevent the steel nose of A1 from contacting the aluminum portion of the feedramps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. Did they change the case dimensions for that? I thought it was just a new projectile (and maybe propellant?). If you look at the CAD in the OP, the angle of the feedlips has been raised to prevent the steel nose of A1 from contacting the aluminum portion of the feedramps. I see, thanks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:34:44 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? When used with M855A1. This new magazine is specifically to answer problems caused by the new ammo. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:35:03 AM EST
[#19]
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal.
Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:35:38 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It just means you haven't fired enough rounds
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag? This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:35:53 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now, PMAGS already do this and always have. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:36:08 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? "preventing the hardened steel tips of new 5.56mm M855A1 Enhanced Performance Rounds from contacting the aluminum feed ramp section on M4 type rifles. " I bet it has to do more with the new bullet design(s) and less with the reliability of the old magazines. The old magazines and new bullet designs are probably the issue, judging from the statement. Also, I'm betting they probably strengthened the edges of the magazines, so they're less prone to bending. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:37:40 AM EST
[#23]
I'll take 30 st $8 each.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:38:35 AM EST
[#24]
IBTML
(In before the Magpul Lawsuit) |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:38:41 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now, No need for a new version. The M3 PMag (GEN M3 PMAG BLK NSN: 1005-01-628-5106) has always run the Army's new Enhanced Penetrator Round (M855A1), flawlessly without accelerated damage to the feed ramps of the M4/M16/HK416. The new USGI uses feeding geometry "strikingly" similar to that introduced with the original PMag M3 8 years ago but it still suffers from reliability and durability issues inherent with the ALU body. Not to mention the PMag offers round remaining feature and has a US Govt cost substantially lower than the new magazine. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:39:05 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag? This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers.
Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with? Or maybe you haven't been firing M855A1 rounds, as the article clearly says the new mag is in response to problems specific to them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:40:00 AM EST
[#27]
So they bent the mag lips up?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:40:03 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag? This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers. Good is the key word. These were cherry picked out of supply as the ones in the best shape. One had survived a burning truck. 
Then I got chewed out by an E9 for using Lancers, since they didn't match everyone elses mags 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:40:04 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well we all know the Gen 4 Pmags will be out soon now, The Gen 2 PMAGS I was issued in 2012 had no problems feeding M855A1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:41:20 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal. Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs. Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:41:42 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal. Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs. Not interchangeable with old magazine followers. The previous gray mags were all the same regardless if they had a black, green, or tan follower. Now both the follower and mag body changed, and are not interchangeable with old parts, so they changed the color of the mag bodies. Blue followers go with tan mags. All other followers go with grey mags. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:43:14 AM EST
[#32]
wouldn't it be easier to redesign 855A1
. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:44:21 AM EST
[#33]
So will the market get flooded with the old mags, or do they all go to a shredder?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:45:17 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal. Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs. Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework. and until M855A1 becomes available on the open market (I have only seen 1 round in private hands) we will have no issues with the old style. I look forward to the flood of surplus magazines! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:46:32 AM EST
[#35]
Thanks for all the responses!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:49:39 AM EST
[#36]
I'll bet there are going to be a boat load of perfectly good old style GI mags hitting the army's dumpsters over the next year or two.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:53:08 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll bet there are going to be a boat load of perfectly good old style GI mags hitting the army's dumpsters over the next year or two. Nope. They'll still be used and the Army will still be trying to figure out why the M4 has feeding problems. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:53:55 AM EST
[#38]
For shit and giggles, we used the USGI mag paracorded to our barracks fridge as a bottle opener that had opened hundreds if not thousands of Beck's bottles on a range day and had zero malfs.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:55:47 AM EST
[#39]
That's great, all my mags are obsolete.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 11:56:55 AM EST
[#40]
Ah, the perfect circle of the military industrial complex.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:00:10 PM EST
[#41]
Didn't Okay do a redesigned Enhanced magazine about a year ago?
When they dropped the NHMTG name? Did that have anything to do with this> |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:01:49 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't Okay do a redesigned Enhanced magazine about a year ago? When they dropped the NHMTG name? Did that have anything to do with this> Those are their "Surefeed" mags. I think they're just for the civilian market. They use Magpul followers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:02:58 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do I need to dump all of my GI mags now and upgrade to these to stay relevant? Yes |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:03:08 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: and until M855A1 becomes available on the open market (I have only seen 1 round in private hands) we will have no issues with the old style. I look forward to the flood of surplus magazines! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Looks like you could upgrade old ones with the right tooling, but you would have to choose between widening the feed lip gap or stretching the metal. Not interchangeable? Sounds like they are interchangeable, just different NSNs. Cheaper and easier to throw them away at $7 a pop than rework. and until M855A1 becomes available on the open market (I have only seen 1 round in private hands) we will have no issues with the old style. I look forward to the flood of surplus magazines! Brings the question, will A1 be sold to the pubic? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:04:31 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is it that between my time in the Army and the all the rounds fired as a civilian from my AR15s I have never once had a stoppage from a good GI mag? This includes mags with black, green, and tan followers. Or perhaps there was never really a problem to begin with? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:05:38 PM EST
[#46]
So where is everybody buying all this M855A1 ammo?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:06:36 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IBTML (In before the Magpul Lawsuit) We have filed a FOIA request to obtain the official testing data that shows the PMag M3 significantly out preforms any other magazine using both conventional ammunition and 855A1. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:06:54 PM EST
[#48]
Tan magazine with blue followers?!
I wonder when they will be available for civilians. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:07:15 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So where is everybody buying all this M855A1 ammo?  |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/26/2016 12:08:00 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Serious question, have there been serious reliability issues with the M4 to merit the change? A1 has been chewing up the feedramps. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
