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Posted: 12/27/2012 8:36:21 PM EDT
What caused this accident, and did the Navy discipline anyone for it?

Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:44:36 PM EDT
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:45:35 PM EDT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Georgia_(SSGN-729)

On 22 March 1986, three miles south of Midway Island, the USS Secota (YTM-415) had just completed a personnel transfer from the Georgia, when the Secota lost power and collided with the Georgia's diving plane. The Secota sank within two minutes. Ten people were rescued, including the Georgia crewman who had just transferred to the Secota, and two Secota crewmen were lost. The Georgia was undamaged.[5][6]

Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:45:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Same... except the boats part, never been on a boat.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:46:30 PM EDT
On 22 March 1986, near Midway Island, Secota had just completed a personnel transfer with the USS Georgia when the Secota lost power and collided with the Georgia. From amateur video taken of the incident, it appears Georgia increased speed before the tug was clear causing an impact with the sub's stern dive planes.[1]. Secota sank, ten crewman were rescued but two drowned. Georgia was undamaged
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2012 8:48:51 PM EDT by DnPRK]
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:48:59 PM EDT
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:55:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleARon:
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?


Engines were still running so it had to be something else. I don't understand why the sub didn't immediately slow down once they realized the tug was on the plane.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:55:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:55:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By DoubleARon:
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?


Engines were still running so it had to be something else. I don't understand why the sub didn't immediately slow down once they realized the tug was on the plane.


Ships don't have brakes
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:59:04 PM EDT
holy shit!

"there goes the mail"
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 8:59:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MNSwede:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By DoubleARon:
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?


Engines were still running so it had to be something else. I don't understand why the sub didn't immediately slow down once they realized the tug was on the plane.


Ships don't have brakes


True but the sub was still under power and increasing speed.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:02:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By MNSwede:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By DoubleARon:
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?


Engines were still running so it had to be something else. I don't understand why the sub didn't immediately slow down once they realized the tug was on the plane.


Ships don't have brakes


True but the sub was still under power and increasing speed.


That appears to be true.

The explanation is probably as simple as the crew on deck didnt know the tug was hooked up to the sub

they didn't radio below that there was an issue until it was too late

I mean look how fast events unfolded less than 5 minutes from all good to tug gone
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:02:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MNSwede:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By DoubleARon:
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?


Engines were still running so it had to be something else. I don't understand why the sub didn't immediately slow down once they realized the tug was on the plane.


Ships don't have brakes


There's that thing called reverse...
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:04:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.


all I can figure
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:08:00 PM EDT
http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2010/12/guest-post-uss-secota-ytm-415-incident.html

Here is an article written by a navy tug guy with his take.

He specified in the article he never found an official report of the sinking, and sheds some light of the loss of power. Apparently that tug was a diesel electric?!
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:08:01 PM EDT
Submarines don't reverse on a dime...

The stern plane has a section that bulges out. The motor for the tug hangs WAAAY below the water line. If it got caught up on the stern plane and didn't have power it would have been (obviously) nearly impossible to get it unstuck.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:08:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.


all I can figure

the tug had no power when the sub was pulling away, so it couldn't steer away from the sub
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:37:34 PM EDT
Damn that thing sunk like a brick
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:49:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MNSwede:
http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2010/12/guest-post-uss-secota-ytm-415-incident.html

Here is an article written by a navy tug guy with his take.

He specified in the article he never found an official report of the sinking, and sheds some light of the loss of power. Apparently that tug was a diesel electric?!


Very interesting .
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:57:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By elcope:
Originally Posted By MNSwede:
http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2010/12/guest-post-uss-secota-ytm-415-incident.html

Here is an article written by a navy tug guy with his take.

He specified in the article he never found an official report of the sinking, and sheds some light of the loss of power. Apparently that tug was a diesel electric?!


Very interesting .


The last couple pargraphs sum it up pretty well. In the industry we call what happened there "interaction." Had the sub gone, "all stop" and not "full ahead" hard over, the outcome may have been much different. Especially for the C/E who went down with the tug.

<----drives tugboats for a living.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 9:59:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2012 10:00:38 PM EDT by Colt_sporter]
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.


all I can figure


I would have expected more from you given your education background.

It's hard to drive something when the power is out.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:18:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2012 10:19:25 PM EDT by FDC]
Originally Posted By Colt_sporter:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.


all I can figure


I would have expected more from you given your education background.

It's hard to drive something when the power is out.


A quick look made it appear that the engines were running the whole time. Making water/you can see the stern of the tug coming off the sub early on. You can see it bobbing around (maybe without power?) after an initial push off the sub. Don't know, I can't hear shit on the video or see definitive evidence either way, and I'm certainly not a tugboat SME. A bad situation for the folks involved.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:31:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.


For one the engine died out. Did you see the guy running like hell into the engine room? That would be the engineer. I have seen that run several times before. 2 What do you know about driving a direct reversible single screw tugboat? Its not like your boat at all. The operator has few options without power. The sub cant stop on a dime and by turning towards the tug the sub was trying to swing their stern away from the tug so there would be no collision. However the suction of the subs propeller was sucking the tug towards it and then the tug got hung up on a dive plane and had a hole cut into it. It looks like the tug did get some power back but it was to late by then.

<----- Also drives (ship-docking) tugs for a living.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:39:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KennyW1983:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
what. the. fuck. I've worked on boats for years and I'm trying to make sense of what the hell I just watched.


Without looking at procedures at all. Not Navy, just grew up around boats. Looks like the tug driver can't drive...unless the wind/current is holding him against the sub, it isn't that hard to get off. The sub might have helped him by realizing the situation and not trying to haul ass. Tug stuck on the sub, sub hauling ass, tug gets hung on the stern plane. Stopped watching after that.


For one the engine died out. Did you see the guy running like hell into the engine room? That would be the engineer. I have seen that run several times before. 2 What do you know about driving a direct reversible single screw tugboat? Its not like your boat at all. The operator has few options without power. The sub cant stop on a dime and by turning towards the tug the sub was trying to swing their stern away from the tug so there would be no collision. However the suction of the subs propeller was sucking the tug towards it and then the tug got hung up on a dive plane and had a hole cut into it. It looks like the tug did get some power back but it was to late by then.

<----- Also drives (ship-docking) tugs for a living.


Yep seen it the second time I watched the video. Also know that it's not a good thing. My boat experience is limited to F/Vs under 100'. Also didn't watch the video the video enough to analyze it. Sorry I apparently didn't give the video the attention you expected me too.
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:42:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:45:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2012 10:46:06 PM EDT by FDC]
Originally Posted By 82ND-ABN:
Originally Posted By FDC:


REMF





and to further avoid me derailing the OP's question...anyone know the real answer?
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:45:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:46:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2012 10:47:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:32:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ND-ABN:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Damn. Shit happens quick.


I love you guys.

You didn't say no homo.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 7:37:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By DoubleARon:
Yeah. So what caused the tug to lose power?


Engines were still running so it had to be something else. I don't understand why the sub didn't immediately slow down once they realized the tug was on the plane.


Steam ships don't have great thottle response.
Link Posted: 12/28/2012 8:56:45 AM EDT
I don't think FDC was serious. I don't think he's ever actually seen a body of water.
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 7:29:52 AM EDT
You can read about it on the tugboat's wiki page. I was in the Navy when this happened, but on the East Coast. Two of the tugboat's crew drowned. I presume they were engineers and were below decks when this happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Secota_%28YTM-415%29

On 22 March 1986, near Midway Island, Secota had just completed a personnel transfer with the USS Georgia when the Secota lost power and collided with the Georgia. From amateur video taken of the incident, it appears Georgia increased speed before the tug was clear causing an impact with the sub's stern dive planes.[1]. Secota sank, ten crewman were rescued but two drowned. Georgia was undamaged.[2][3]
Link Posted: 12/29/2012 10:02:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2012 10:37:44 AM EDT by JB66]
Unfortunate series of events with a fatal conclusion. Tugs and towboats can handle quite a bit, but downflooding of the engine room will send them to the bottom in seconds. Looks like the sub was hard over which should have actually helped the tug to back away from the sub had they not been hung up.

Nice example shot of an assist tug "powered indirect," with the port side bulwarks completely underwater.

Quite a few more can be found here.

Another cool video of an inland tug lucky to still be afloat today. I've seen this many times and it still makes my palms still sweat watching it.
Youtube video here
Edit-because I can't seem to embed for shit.
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