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Posted: 10/18/2004 9:58:06 AM EST
I arranged to trade a NIB M1A for a RobArm M96 with another member on this board. Packed the rifle up in it's original box, plus original shipping carton and took it down to the PO today with a copy of the receiving dealer's info and the PO regs in my pocket.

Take the box up to the counter guy and say " This is a firearm. I'd like to send it Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation, and insure the package for $XXXX."

Counter clerk says "That'll be $30.50. Have a nice day"


Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:05:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:
I arranged to trade a NIB M1A for a RobArm M96 with another member on this board. Packed the rifle up in it's original box, plus original shipping carton and took it down to the PO today with a copy of the receiving dealer's info and the PO regs in my pocket.

Take the box up to the counter guy and say " This is a firearm. I'd like to send it Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation, and insure the package for $XXXX."

Counter clerk says "That'll be $30.50. Have a nice day"






Now that I have my postmaster trained, that's how it works at my post office too.

(UPS is cheaper, but sometimes they give me a hard time - especially the UPS store/mailboxes etc. people0
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:13:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


Now that I have my postmaster trained, that's how it works at my post office too.

(UPS is cheaper, but sometimes they give me a hard time - especially the UPS store/mailboxes etc. people0



I had my old postmaster wll trained, but this was my first visit with a firearm to my new post office, so I went in prepared for the worst. It's a little one man postal station with a very grouchy clerk. Glad he knew the rules.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:13:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 10:29:53 AM EST by crowboy]

Originally Posted By DavidC:
I arranged to trade a NIB M1A for a RobArm M96 with another member on this board. Packed the rifle up in it's original box, plus original shipping carton and took it down to the PO today with a copy of the receiving dealer's info and the PO regs in my pocket.

Take the box up to the counter guy and say " This is a firearm. I'd like to send it Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation, and insure the package for $XXXX."

Counter clerk says "That'll be $30.50. Have a nice day"




Never announce to usps that you are shipping a firearm, if you are sending to an FFL or lic. gunsmith, repair or to the original factory ect.. you do not need to state what is in the package to the usps as it is legal for you to ship to the above places. You only run the risk of freaking some counter person out unnecessarily.Only if its a pistol do you need to inform usps and then you must send from an FFL to an FFL.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 10:34:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By crowboy:
Never announce to usps that you are shipping a firearm, if you are sending to an FFL or lic. gunsmith, repair or to the original factory ect.. you do not need to state what is in the package to the usps as it is legal for you to ship to the places above. You only run the risk of freaking some counter person out unnecessarily.Only if its a pistol do you need to inform usps and then you must send from an FFL to an FFL.



If you don't tell them it's a firearm, how do you comply with the law?


From the USPS web site:

d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.



And from the Domestic Mail Manual pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/C024.htm#Raq42305



3.0 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e.



There is a presumption that a firearm will be declared as such. Not telling the USPS that you are shipping a firearm seems unwise.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:23:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:

Originally Posted By crowboy:
Never announce to usps that you are shipping a firearm, if you are sending to an FFL or lic. gunsmith, repair or to the original factory ect.. you do not need to state what is in the package to the usps as it is legal for you to ship to the places above. You only run the risk of freaking some counter person out unnecessarily.Only if its a pistol do you need to inform usps and then you must send from an FFL to an FFL.



If you don't tell them it's a firearm, how do you comply with the law?


From the USPS web site:

d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.



And from the Domestic Mail Manual pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/C024.htm#Raq42305



3.0 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e.



There is a presumption that a firearm will be declared as such. Not telling the USPS that you are shipping a firearm seems unwise.



I respectfully disagree
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:23:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 7:59:58 AM EST by Phil_A_Steen]

Originally Posted By crowboy:

Never announce to usps that you are shipping a firearm, if you are sending to an FFL or lic. gunsmith, repair or to the original factory ect.. you do not need to state what is in the package to the usps as it is legal for you to ship to the above places. You only run the risk of freaking some counter person out unnecessarily.Only if its a pistol do you need to inform usps and then you must send from an FFL to an FFL.




Everything Crowboy said is right as far as UPS.

Everything Davd C said is right about USPS policy for mailing handguns - certification form is required. For rifles no form or declaration is required and contrary to the ATF faq no notice is required to the common carrier for a rifle.

Don't mess around with the postal system, or you may meet with a US postal inspectors.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:35:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By DavidC:

Originally Posted By crowboy:
Never announce to usps that you are shipping a firearm, if you are sending to an FFL or lic. gunsmith, repair or to the original factory ect.. you do not need to state what is in the package to the usps as it is legal for you to ship to the places above. You only run the risk of freaking some counter person out unnecessarily.Only if its a pistol do you need to inform usps and then you must send from an FFL to an FFL.



If you don't tell them it's a firearm, how do you comply with the law?


From the USPS web site:

d. Unloaded rifles and shotguns may be mailed if the mailer fully complies with the Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618) and 18 U.S.C. 921. The mailer may be required to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not excluded from mailing because of the restrictions in 431.2b and c.



And from the Domestic Mail Manual pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/C024.htm#Raq42305



3.0 Rifles and Shotguns
Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act of 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated thereunder, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e.



There is a presumption that a firearm will be declared as such. Not telling the USPS that you are shipping a firearm seems unwise.





I agree completely (and mentioned this in the other thread about shipping rifles through USPS in General Discussion).

Since they have the right to inspect the firearm to ensure that you are in compliance with postal regulations, it is CLEARLY IMPLIED that you must declare it to them. By deliberately not telling them it's a firearm, you are precluding them from exercising their perogative under postal regulations.

I personally won't fuck around with trying to be clever about the technical letter of the law, because I think it is pretty damn clear that you need to tell them so they can inspect if they want.

However, that said, I very much doubt that it would ever be a problem if one didn't declare it - I'm just a sticker for going by the book (especially when it comes to firearms).
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:19:57 AM EST
When shipping Priority mail at USPS you are asked , "Is it Liquid, Perishable, or Potentially Hazardous"? When you answer in the negative you have covered any presumptive problems with a firearm. As to the USPS reserving the right to inspect a package, they already have that right regardless of what you are shipping.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:39:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By crowboy:
When shipping Priority mail at USPS you are asked , "Is it Liquid, Perishable, or Potentially Hazardous"? When you answer in the negative you have covered any presumptive problems with a firearm. As to the USPS reserving the right to inspect a package, they already have that right regardless of what you are shipping.




I still disagree.

I also wonder what you do when you are ASKED what is in the box. I'm OFTEN asked that when I am shipping a long gun. "Is this a firearm?" - what do you recommend in that case?

I can understand if you choose not to volunteer it. I still personally think that violates the postal regs, but I can see where the grey area is. But what about if they ask you what it is? If you deliberately LIE to them, and say "machine parts" or something like that, you are deliberately precluding them from being able to inspect it to verufy that it is unloaded and complies with federal law.

I'd think that deliberately misleading or lying to the post office about the contents (for a ORM-type material/item) is a clear violation of postal regs.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:41:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Now that I have my postmaster trained, that's how it works at my post office too.

(UPS is cheaper, but sometimes they give me a hard time - especially the UPS store/mailboxes etc. people0



I thought UPS stopped taking ANY firearms shipments FROM an individual, regardless of where it's going... (meaning they'll only ship FROM an FFL...)
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:45:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/19/2004 6:45:22 AM EST by warlord]
Back in the old days when the CMP was known as the DCM, when the USPS used to deliver the rilfes, USPS personel know what they were delivering because of the distinctive shape of the box, and they deliver something like 5-10 of them day. A dead giveaway. Thinking of stealing one of 'em? Think again, they were sent registered mail with a return receipt. Theft of USPS mail is punishable by time in Sing Song Prison.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:55:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By crowboy:
When shipping Priority mail at USPS you are asked , "Is it Liquid, Perishable, or Potentially Hazardous"? When you answer in the negative you have covered any presumptive problems with a firearm. As to the USPS reserving the right to inspect a package, they already have that right regardless of what you are shipping.




I still disagree.

I also wonder what you do when you are ASKED what is in the box. I'm OFTEN asked that when I am shipping a long gun. "Is this a firearm?" - what do you recommend in that case?

I can understand if you choose not to volunteer it. I still personally think that violates the postal regs, but I can see where the grey area is. But what about if they ask you what it is? If you deliberately LIE to them, and say "machine parts" or something like that, you are deliberately precluding them from being able to inspect it to verufy that it is unloaded and complies with federal law.

I'd think that deliberately misleading or lying to the post office about the contents (for a ORM-type material/item) is a clear violation of postal regs.


If the folks at USPS ask me what was in a package I would tell them the truth ( I have not advocated lying to them ) I said, I would not go into the Post office and announce to the clerk that I was shipping a firearm. In all the firearms that I have shipped which are many, I have never been ask what is in the package, I have only been ask the liquid, perishable potentially hazardous question. I maintain that you do not have to identify your contents as a firearm unless you are specifically ask. The question of "potentially Hazardous" by the clerk covers you unless you are directly asked.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:59:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By crowboy:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By crowboy:
When shipping Priority mail at USPS you are asked , "Is it Liquid, Perishable, or Potentially Hazardous"? When you answer in the negative you have covered any presumptive problems with a firearm. As to the USPS reserving the right to inspect a package, they already have that right regardless of what you are shipping.




I still disagree.

I also wonder what you do when you are ASKED what is in the box. I'm OFTEN asked that when I am shipping a long gun. "Is this a firearm?" - what do you recommend in that case?

I can understand if you choose not to volunteer it. I still personally think that violates the postal regs, but I can see where the grey area is. But what about if they ask you what it is? If you deliberately LIE to them, and say "machine parts" or something like that, you are deliberately precluding them from being able to inspect it to verufy that it is unloaded and complies with federal law.

I'd think that deliberately misleading or lying to the post office about the contents (for a ORM-type material/item) is a clear violation of postal regs.


If the folks at USPS ask me what was in a package I would tell them the truth ( I have not advocated lying to them ) I said, I would not go into the Post office and announce to the clerk that I was shipping a firearm. In all the firearms that I have shipped which are many, I have never been ask what is in the package, I have only been ask the liquid, perishable potentially hazardous question. I maintain that you do not have to identify your contents as a firearm unless you are specifically ask. The question of "potentially Hazardous" by the clerk covers you unless you are directly asked.



Sorry - I wasn't trying to imply that you would lie or would recommend that to people - I was asking because I wasn't sure what you were saying.

While I still disagree in principle, I don't think there's anything wrong per se with NOT volunteering. If they want to inspect any firearms, they should be asking people about every packet they might even remotely supsect is a firearm.



As a complete aside, I wonder how often handgun are ilegally shipped through the USPS by people who do not realize they are not allowed to.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 7:02:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By DavidC:
I arranged to trade a NIB M1A for a RobArm M96 with another member on this board. Packed the rifle up in it's original box, plus original shipping carton and took it down to the PO today with a copy of the receiving dealer's info and the PO regs in my pocket.

Take the box up to the counter guy and say " This is a firearm. I'd like to send it Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation, and insure the package for $XXXX."

Counter clerk says "That'll be $30.50. Have a nice day"






Now that I have my postmaster trained, that's how it works at my post office too.

(UPS is cheaper, but sometimes they give me a hard time - especially the UPS store/mailboxes etc. people0




The local UPS store/mailboxes etc. refuse to mail any form of firearm at all.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 7:09:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By crowboy:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By crowboy:
When shipping Priority mail at USPS you are asked , "Is it Liquid, Perishable, or Potentially Hazardous"? When you answer in the negative you have covered any presumptive problems with a firearm. As to the USPS reserving the right to inspect a package, they already have that right regardless of what you are shipping.




I still disagree.

I also wonder what you do when you are ASKED what is in the box. I'm OFTEN asked that when I am shipping a long gun. "Is this a firearm?" - what do you recommend in that case?

I can understand if you choose not to volunteer it. I still personally think that violates the postal regs, but I can see where the grey area is. But what about if they ask you what it is? If you deliberately LIE to them, and say "machine parts" or something like that, you are deliberately precluding them from being able to inspect it to verufy that it is unloaded and complies with federal law.

I'd think that deliberately misleading or lying to the post office about the contents (for a ORM-type material/item) is a clear violation of postal regs.


If the folks at USPS ask me what was in a package I would tell them the truth ( I have not advocated lying to them ) I said, I would not go into the Post office and announce to the clerk that I was shipping a firearm. In all the firearms that I have shipped which are many, I have never been ask what is in the package, I have only been ask the liquid, perishable potentially hazardous question. I maintain that you do not have to identify your contents as a firearm unless you are specifically ask. The question of "potentially Hazardous" by the clerk covers you unless you are directly asked.



Sorry - I wasn't trying to imply that you would lie or would recommend that to people - I was asking because I wasn't sure what you were saying.

While I still disagree in principle, I don't think there's anything wrong per se with NOT volunteering. If they want to inspect any firearms, they should be asking people about every packet they might even remotely supsect is a firearm.



As a complete aside, I wonder how often handgun are ilegally shipped through the USPS by people who do not realize they are not allowed to.



No offense taken Prof, I agree on the Pistol thing, I would wager that alot of people use USPS for pistols to avoid the hassle at UPS and as we all know, shipping a pistol with USPS requires an FFL on the sending and recieving end and pistols DO require notifying the USPS as to content.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 7:29:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jon3:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By DavidC:
I arranged to trade a NIB M1A for a RobArm M96 with another member on this board. Packed the rifle up in it's original box, plus original shipping carton and took it down to the PO today with a copy of the receiving dealer's info and the PO regs in my pocket.

Take the box up to the counter guy and say " This is a firearm. I'd like to send it Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation, and insure the package for $XXXX."

Counter clerk says "That'll be $30.50. Have a nice day"






Now that I have my postmaster trained, that's how it works at my post office too.

(UPS is cheaper, but sometimes they give me a hard time - especially the UPS store/mailboxes etc. people0




The local UPS store/mailboxes etc. refuse to mail any form of firearm at all.



That is what I understood, you needed to take it to a UPS staffed customer center. Even though they wear a UPS uniform and have UPS on the outside on the banner, they UPS stores are independantly owned. If this has changed, I would like the documentation to beat them up, if I ever am forced to use UPS again. I know this because they can arbitrarily pull stupid rules out of their ass and charge you more for your shipment. Like an extra dollar to put some more tape on your package so "it doesn't get caught on the conveyor". The last store I went to were bastards and I filed a complaint. FEDEX for me here-on..........
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:41:26 PM EST
I like to ship everything I can USPS since they ship on Sat so I can get and ship 6 days a week. I also know the crew down there.

S.O.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:50:21 PM EST
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