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Link Posted: 9/22/2012 4:40:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are not saying that its some pinnacle of shooting
media , police admin and anti gun fucktards say it is


A local sheriff's department change their qual course last year.  Added more rounds, pivoting targets and 100% hits.  Compared to the previous qual course, it was harder but by no means impossible.  When it came time for Admin to qual, nobody passed.  New qual course was "modified" to add more time and went to 80% hits on target to pass.    People think cops can't shoot?  Admin shooting is downright scary.  



And the worst ones will never qual with the regular officers. They have their own range day.
can't have the troops laughing at them.


Don't get me started on admin.  Every tucking year I get the pleasure of qualifying the chief on December 30th or somewhere close to that.  He actually is a pretty decent shooter as he hunts regularly.  I wish I was at work and could post the new Ohio qual course.  It went from 60 to 25 rounds.  

I am thinking about shooting idpa and I know I will be humbled by some of the shooters.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 5:12:42 AM EDT
[#2]





Quoted:





Quoted:


I know officers who have never discharged their weapon on duty...



That would be the vast and overwhelming majority of LEOs.



That would also be a reason that it is great to be an American.  Most cops DON'T have to use their firearms in their career.  On a





different note, question for ARFCOM cops.  Would airsoft be any help at all?  For everything except full power follow up and rapid fire, it





seems as though airsoft would be a cheap viable alternative for training draw to first shot, basic position shooting, basic close





range marksmanship principles, especially weak hand only shooting etc.  Just wondering.





 
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 6:43:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know officers who have never discharged their weapon on duty...

That would be the vast and overwhelming majority of LEOs.

That would also be a reason that it is great to be an American.  Most cops DON'T have to use their firearms in their career.  On a

different note, question for ARFCOM cops.  Would airsoft be any help at all?  For everything except full power follow up and rapid fire, it

seems as though airsoft would be a cheap viable alternative for training draw to first shot, basic position shooting, basic close

range marksmanship principles, especially weak hand only shooting etc.  Just wondering.
 


Airsoft is good for force on force training.  I t could be used for some other basic stuff but I would rather just use the real thing on the range.

Simunition is better but more expensive.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 7:00:40 AM EDT
[#4]
If you think the course in the OP is a joke you should see the NYPD requal.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 7:58:40 AM EDT
[#5]



Quoted:


If you think the course in the OP is a joke you should see the NYPD requal.


here's nebraska

http://www.nletc.state.ne.us/pdfs/FireQual.pdf

I can score 100% weak hand only
 
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 8:25:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know officers who have never discharged their weapon on duty...

That would be the vast and overwhelming majority of LEOs.

That would also be a reason that it is great to be an American.  Most cops DON'T have to use their firearms in their career.  On a

different note, question for ARFCOM cops.  Would airsoft be any help at all?  For everything except full power follow up and rapid fire, it

seems as though airsoft would be a cheap viable alternative for training draw to first shot, basic position shooting, basic close

range marksmanship principles, especially weak hand only shooting etc.  Just wondering.
 


Airsoft is good for force on force training.  I t could be used for some other basic stuff but I would rather just use the real thing on the range.

Simunition is better but more expensive.


I know more than one shooter who now shoot airsoft for frequent practice.  They set up small scale targets in their garage or backyard and swear it helps since they can shoot every day for pennies.  Brian Enos' Forum has a whole section on training with airsoft including how to make small scale targets including falling plates, spinners, etc.  I cant say if it really helps or not but I did recently order a KSC G19 airsoft to try it; just haven't gotten around to making any targets yet.  The gun looks and feels similar to my regular G19 and fits in my regular holsters and I've been surprised at the accuracy although I'll admit I installed a tighter barrel.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 8:29:54 AM EDT
[#7]



Quoted:



I know more than one shooter who now shoot airsoft for frequent practice.  They set up small scale targets in their garage or backyard and swear it helps since they can shoot every day for pennies.  Brian Enos' Forum has a whole section on training with airsoft including how to make small scale targets including falling plates, spinners, etc.  I cant say if it really helps or not but I did recently order a KSC G19 airsoft to try it; just haven't gotten around to making any targets yet.  The gun looks and feels similar to my regular G19 and fits in my regular holsters and I've been surprised at the accuracy although I'll admit I installed a tighter barrel.
Used to be a fair amount of quite good Japanese IPSC and steel challenge shooters who never touch a real pistol till they hit the states



On the flip side IIRC quite of few of them got DQ'd as they did not seem to have the proper respect for a firearm and were unsafe





 
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 8:36:00 AM EDT
[#8]
FWIW: I didn't watch the video.

A vast majority of cops cannot shoot for shit and I don't totally blame the officer either. If you're not a "gun guy" and you aren't a paid a whole lot of money, you're not going to spend the time and money to shoot (even though you probably should all things considered.)

I blame the Dept. (not all, many are different, I can't only speak about most of the ones I know about) for lack of "range days", minimal qualification times during the year (generally one or two), not even going so far as to provide an officer free/reduced cost ammo to practice with, or even letting an officer use the fricken' range! Yeah, I know all this costs money, but how much is your officer's life worth or the life of an innocent civilian who gets hit by accident, and not because of the stress of the situation, but because you have not properly supported your officer.

The "solution" here was: Shitty results? Switch from the 9mm to the .40. Still have shitty results? Let's consider switching to a .45.

Many think they will "rise to the occasion", they won't. There have been a lot of shootings here where the perp should be dead, easy... But, the scumbag is now costing tax dollars and sitting around, because of poor training.

It boggles the mind.

They act like a police qualification course is suppose to be the pinnacle of marksmanship.


It should at least be the median... But, it isn't, it is at the lowest level. They have actually dumbed down the courses at dept's because not enough people were passing.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 8:40:18 AM EDT
[#9]
With the exception of all the cops I used to shoot USPSA with, in general, when a cop is shooting, the safest place in the world to be is in his sight picture. If you're not in his sight picture, may God have mercy on your soul.

 
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 8:48:15 AM EDT
[#10]
First I will say that most cops suck at marksmanship

Second, that was not even close to the LAPD qual course and they are not using approved LAPD duty gear or firearms.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 9:12:04 AM EDT
[#11]
<<<shoots USPSA
<<<is an LEO

The guy in the video is correct.  The administrative qualification is a MINIMUM standard that an officer must achieve and is primarily there to satisfy legal liabilities of the department, in otherwords, they exist to make attorneys, accountants, and politicians happy.  They cater to the lowest common denominator of the most poorly skilled shooter in a particular department.  The anti-gun establishment thinks the admin qual embues a government officer with superhuman skill and ability.  Yet the media and general public eat it up.  The anti-gun establishment knows they are wrong, but they also know that perception is reality and will lie, cheat and steal to get their way.

ETA - a C class shooter will run circles around nearly any LEO, unless that LEO happens to do shooting outside of the standard training.  Most LEOs I know who are really good marksmen also do some kind of competition shooting on the side.
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 9:32:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:

On the flip side one of the departments around here told officers if they show up to IPSC or IDPA they will either win or not show up because it undermines
command presence or some shit like that

 


Interpretation:
The brass don't like to be embarassed publicly.
They like to keep the perception of highly trained officers in the public mind.

Quoted:

different note, question for ARFCOM cops.  Would airsoft be any help at all?  For everything except full power follow up and rapid fire, it

seems as though airsoft would be a cheap viable alternative for training draw to first shot, basic position shooting, basic close

range marksmanship principles, especially weak hand only shooting etc.  Just wondering.
 


If centerfire wasn't possible, I'd rather go with rimfire for more trigger time.

Quoted:

Don't get me started on admin.  Every tucking year I get the pleasure of qualifying the chief on December 30th or somewhere close to that.  He actually is a pretty decent shooter as he hunts regularly.  I wish I was at work and could post the new Ohio qual course.  It went from 60 to 25 rounds.  


I know of one agency that has a two round qual course. Not because they're cheap, but their range guys feel that you need to be able to deliver hits on target on demand. Sooo......I guess for them, you better get your 2 hits on target or pack up and go home and come back when you're ready to perform to standard. After all, when its time to pull the trigger, you wont have time for warm up shots.....

Quoted:

A local sheriff's department change their qual course last year.  Added more rounds, pivoting targets and 100% hits.  Compared to the previous qual course, it was harder but by no means impossible.  When it came time for Admin to qual, nobody passed.  New qual course was "modified" to add more time and went to 80% hits on target to pass.    People think cops can't shoot?  Admin shooting is downright scary.  



Happened at our place about ten years ago, but it wasn't the brass complaining.
The guy setting up the courses of fire that time around decided to bring back some 50 yard shooting and more movement while shooting. Boy, did the old timers complain about that, and that was the end of longer distance engagement for a few years.

We brought in some courses of fire at our spring firearms quals that were trying to incorporate stuff we'd picked up in our spring simunitions training, which is a  normal thing for us. Evaluate issues in the sims stuff and address it on the live fire range. Some guys have trouble transitioning from the mindset of one target for each life fire student and moving  to engage/ go to cover and shooting live rounds with other guys next to them..... they'll have to figure it out in a life fire shooting guys, they need to be willing to do it in training too.....
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 9:43:23 AM EDT
[#13]





Quoted:





Quoted:





On the flip side one of the departments around here told officers if they show up to IPSC or IDPA they will either win or not show up because it undermines


command presence or some shit like that





 






Interpretation:


The brass don't like to be embarassed publicly.


They like to keep the perception of highly trained officers in the public mind.
yeah most were great guys its kinda sad as IMO it worked well as public relations and outreach





They now have an LEO only league at the police range






Of the 2 dozen or so that came and shot over the years always found it interesting the 2 that could *really* shoot

I did not know they were police officers until I ran into them out and about in uniform they were both older and sergeants tho'





 
Link Posted: 9/22/2012 10:20:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are not saying that its some pinnacle of shooting
media , police admin and anti gun fucktards say it is


A local sheriff's department change their qual course last year.  Added more rounds, pivoting targets and 100% hits.  Compared to the previous qual course, it was harder but by no means impossible.  When it came time for Admin to qual, nobody passed.  New qual course was "modified" to add more time and went to 80% hits on target to pass.    People think cops can't shoot?  Admin shooting is downright scary.  



As the average LEO grows more and more detached from the gun culture as a whole, it will only get worse.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 12:27:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
The guy setting up the courses of fire that time around decided to bring back some 50 yard shooting and more movement while shooting.....

Shooting while moving? What's that?
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 3:26:11 AM EDT
[#16]
The only time I've been swept with a live weapon was at a mutli-gun match.

It was a LEO that swept everybody.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 5:33:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
There are shooters, and their are gun owners/users.

Most cops aren't shooters.

Most gun owners aren't shooters.

In fact, the majority of both cops and gun owners, when all the bullshit is stripped away, are borderline incompetent with firearms.


If you treat safe and correct gun manipulation like a religion, actually shoot weekly or at least monthly, and actively try to improve your abilities and seek intruction from those better than you... Be proud. You're one of very, very few shooters in the entire world.


You Sir, speak the truth.

Link Posted: 9/23/2012 6:39:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The guy setting up the courses of fire that time around decided to bring back some 50 yard shooting and more movement while shooting.....

Shooting while moving? What's that?


Its what people do in gunfights, so your training had best reflect that.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 7:41:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
What a fucking drama queen.

Try doing it over again with a duty holster duty belt and body armor like a LEO.

They act like a police qualification course is suppose to be the pinnacle of marksmanship.


Did you and I watch the same video?

According to him, the requirements of the actual LAPD qualification course don't include any holster work - evolutions are shot either from the low ready or with the weapon already on target. They ran them from the holster in their version simply because it was required under IDPA rules. Thus duty holster vs. non-retention holster has no bearing on the course.

He wasn't holding police qual standards up as the pinnacle of marksmanship, he was debunking that idea.

<edit>
It does appear that one of the stages is from the holster. The other three aren't.

PHASE ONE - 12 rounds in 25 seconds on the 7 yard line. Start with the weapon holstered, snapped, and both hands down by your side. When the targets turn, draw and fire 2 rounds at the right body, 2 rounds at the left body, 1 round at the left head, and 1 round at the right head. Perform an in battery speed reload with the 5 round magazine and repeat the sequence; 2 right, 2 left, left head, right head. When the phase is completed, perform an out of battery speed reload with the second 7 round magazine, decock and holster. Load two magazines, one with 6 rounds and one with 5 rounds, then place them in the magazine pouches.

PHASE TWO - 2 rounds in 2 seconds on the 10 yard line. Start in a two hand Low Ready. Each time the targets turn, 2 rounds in 2 seconds are fired. First pair on the left target, second pair on the right target, third pair on the left target. Between each pair of rounds you must return to a Low Ready. After the third pair, perform a tactical reload with the 6 round magazine and holster.

PHASE THREE - 6 rounds in 8 seconds on the 12 yard line. Start in a two hand Low Ready. When the targets turn, fire 2 rounds on the right target, 2 rounds on the left target, and 2 rounds on the right target. Perform a tactical reload with the 5 round magazine and holster.

PHASE FOUR - (barricade position) - 1 round in 3 seconds on the 15 yard line. Start in a left hand barricade position (sights aligned on target, finger on the trigger). Each time the targets turn, fire 1 round in 3 seconds on the left target. After the third round, decock and assume a right hand barricade position (sights aligned on target, finger on the trigger). Each time the targets turn, fire 1 round in 3 seconds on the right target. After the last round, unload and holster.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 7:54:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You still fail.  Put it up in plain text so the editor doesn't kill the hyphens.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruEc2––6Lc4


Still nothing.


Tried every reiteration of trying to get the link to copy over correctly. No luck. YT search "debunking the police qualification myth".


Still nothing.


it's because the ARFCOM coders are lazy, incompetent slugs.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_3/1347104_3rd_time____improper_mangling_of_linked_URLs_due_to_consecutive_dashes_being_converted_into_em_dash.html

i don't know any other way to get their attention.

maybe they'll call me out to a pit thread.  i can point out (see link above) that i have been noting and documenting this very same problem for three years.

ar-jedi


Link Posted: 9/23/2012 7:54:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Why do 90% of the people who make youtube videos involving guns have to have unusual choices in hair style and dress.

Don't wear sunglasses or hats when talking to the camera, especially big sunglasses and Australian cowboy hats. The only thing he was missing was a duster and I bet he owns it.

Is that no-sideburn beard to keep his chin warm?

At least he's well spoken. Dude is dressed for radio interviews.



wow, more of that " You don't wear the proper clothes, how dare you speak" BS.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 8:06:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
No disrespect to any LEO's, but I have always been under the impression that most LEO's suck at shooting, because they dont shoot enough and the tests are so easy.  I know officers who have never discharged their weapon on duty, and one who never pulled it.


That's a good thing. I wouldn't be bashing them for that. Discharging the firearm should be a last resort. That's a pretty lame thing to be upset about.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 8:13:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
What a fucking drama queen.

Try doing it over again with a duty holster duty belt and body armor like a LEO.

They act like a police qualification course is suppose to be the pinnacle of marksmanship.


Well hell, that LEO should have to run that range like a Marine Infantryman. Flak with all 4 plates, helmet, pack, 1800 meters of running and gunning, with 40 extra pounds of gear on top of that. Take them up to Fort Pickett in the dead of winter, make him sleep in the snow and dirt for 2 weeks, in the freezing rain and blowing wind, letting him have 4 hours of sleep a day, foot patrols for 12 hours a day. That'll REALLY get him prep'd.

Talk about a drama queen.  
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 8:13:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Gee . . . boasting and bragging from both sides of the badge , overstated drama and lame excuses .......whodathunkit?
Quoted:
I despair when I go to our local gun show.





I notice huge differences in gun shows here in central Maine compared to shows in...say... Indiana , Ohio , Oregon , Texas ,Michigan , Oklahoma and such .
Granted , locals are different in different parts of the country <no shit,huh?>  But overall , it seems that the show-goers up here seem to look like the same,plain-Jane-crowd that would be perusing a flea market .( i.e. - fudds)
The Wanamaker (sp?) show in Tulsa always seem to have an almost carnival atmosphere
It's all good....I kinda try not to judge anymore on outward appearances  
 
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 8:53:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
I'm not understanding the big deal.


People that shoot handguns in competition were able to pass the police qualification test. Shocking. In related news people who write short fiction as a hobby passed police academy spelling test.

Link Posted: 9/23/2012 9:05:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not understanding the big deal.


People that shoot handguns in competition were able to pass the police qualification test. Shocking. In related news people who write short fiction as a hobby passed police academy spelling test.



The point is that police quals are upheld as the difference between people that should have guns and people that shouldn't. This shows that they are trivially passed by non-professional shooters.

By going feet gun banner's claims we weaken them. Or are you on the side of those that wold ban guns?
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 12:43:07 PM EDT
[#27]




Quoted:



Quoted:



Quoted:

I'm not understanding the big deal.




People that shoot handguns in competition were able to pass the police qualification test. Shocking. In related news people who write short fiction as a hobby passed police academy spelling test.







The point is that police quals are upheld as the difference between people that should have guns and people that shouldn't. This shows that they are trivially passed by non-professional shooters.



By going feet gun banner's claims we weaken them. Or are you on the side of those that wold ban guns?




That may be the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read on this website.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:04:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not understanding the big deal.


People that shoot handguns in competition were able to pass the police qualification test. Shocking. In related news people who write short fiction as a hobby passed police academy spelling test.



The point is that police quals are upheld as the difference between people that should have guns and people that shouldn't. This shows that they are trivially passed by non-professional shooters.

By going feet gun banner's claims we weaken them. Or are you on the side of those that wold ban guns?


That may be the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read on this website.


How is it fucking dumb, when he is absolutely correct?
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:08:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not understanding the big deal.


People that shoot handguns in competition were able to pass the police qualification test. Shocking. In related news people who write short fiction as a hobby passed police academy spelling test.



The point is that police quals are upheld as the difference between people that should have guns and people that shouldn't. This shows that they are trivially passed by non-professional shooters.

By going feet gun banner's claims we weaken them. Or are you on the side of those that wold ban guns?


That may be the dumbest fucking shit I've ever read on this website.


You need to read more of the crap on this web.....  Nevermind.  Lucky you!
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:16:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm not understanding the big deal.


People that shoot handguns in competition were able to pass the police qualification test. Shocking. In related news people who write short fiction as a hobby passed police academy spelling test.



The point is that police quals are upheld as the difference between people that should have guns and people that shouldn't. This shows that they are trivially passed by non-professional shooters.

By going feet gun banner's claims we weaken them. Or are you on the side of those that wold ban guns?


Derp.

The only point of police quals, or CCW permit quals are showing that the person who passed meets the minimum standard required by the state.

Neither are particularly hard. Minimum standards usually are not. That a competitive shooter meets those standards is not impressive and doesnt prove any political point except in your timfoil wrapped dome.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:24:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Yep, minimum standard to keep your badge......trending towards a Pass/Fail grade to reduce liability in court, bringing into doubt the deputy who always passes by one point.  



Being Saint Thomas, having the same folks show up the day before quals, and expect you to perform a miracle for them to pass....



Never having to run top staff thru quals, 'cause I would have failed them..........they know which ROs will play ball.......



Its almost enough to take the fun out of all the practice ammo you can shoot........



Bad day on the range beats a good day working in the jail, that's for sure.....including the day a recruit (RO's next to me) launched a 165gr .40 FMJ down his thigh, claimed the thumbstrap pressed the trigger while holstering........   Oh, yeah, nothing but yellowed band-aids in the aid kit on the range....... thank God it wasn't Golden Sabre.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:26:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Yep, minimum standard to keep your badge......trending towards a Pass/Fail grade to reduce liability in court, bringing into doubt the deputy who always passes by one point.   .


I thought the pass/fail liability thing was the opposite. Families arguing "why didnt he shoot the gun out of his hand or shoot him in the leg, the officer always shoots a perfect score in range qual!"
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:33:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, minimum standard to keep your badge......trending towards a Pass/Fail grade to reduce liability in court, bringing into doubt the deputy who always passes by one point.   .


I thought the pass/fail liability thing was the opposite. Families arguing "why didnt he shoot the gun out of his hand or shoot him in the leg, the officer always shoots a perfect score in range qual!"


Fella's, this wasn't aimed at particular officers, or one departments set of qualifications. It was aimed squarely at the gugrabbers matra of " Before you can own a gun, you should have to do the quals the police do", or the all time great hit " We are the only ones in this room professional enough to handle a firearm".

Comprehension is key, here.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:34:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yep, minimum standard to keep your badge......trending towards a Pass/Fail grade to reduce liability in court, bringing into doubt the deputy who always passes by one point.   .


I thought the pass/fail liability thing was the opposite. Families arguing "why didnt he shoot the gun out of his hand or shoot him in the leg, the officer always shoots a perfect score in range qual!"


Fella's, this wasn't aimed at particular officers, or one departments set of qualifications. It was aimed squarely at the gugrabbers matra of " Before you can own a gun, you should have to do the quals the police do", or the all time great hit " We are the only ones in this room professional enough to handle a firearm".

Comprehension is key, here.


Glad to see someone got it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 1:57:20 PM EDT
[#35]
And who here on this website has espoused such a belief, that a thread was necessary to prove them wrong?


Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Yep, minimum standard to keep your badge......trending towards a Pass/Fail grade to reduce liability in court, bringing into doubt the deputy who always passes by one point.   .




I thought the pass/fail liability thing was the opposite. Families arguing "why didnt he shoot the gun out of his hand or shoot him in the leg, the officer always shoots a perfect score in range qual!"




Fella's, this wasn't aimed at particular officers, or one departments set of qualifications. It was aimed squarely at the gugrabbers matra of " Before you can own a gun, you should have to do the quals the police do", or the all time great hit " We are the only ones in this room professional enough to handle a firearm".



Comprehension is key, here.






 
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 2:05:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Most cops cant shoot for shit.  And *I* am a cop!!

I have been a firearms instructor for years.  It's pathetic.  Seriously.....pathetic.

Carry on.

I'm glad it's not just us then, or rather it's a shame it's not just us... In my Dept. I am considered a good shot with all weapons. At shooting club level, I'm pretty average.....


In my town the cops have their own shooting club because they couldn't hack it with the rest of us.
Link Posted: 9/23/2012 7:13:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Not all cops are terrible shots. I used to shoot with a guy named Bob Vogel who happens to be a full time cop here in Ohio. This was about 10 years ago he used to shoot our IDPA matches. Christ that guy was fast back then and it seems he has gotten even faster!
Link Posted: 9/25/2012 4:11:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:

According to him, the requirements of the actual LAPD qualification course don't include any holster work - evolutions are shot either from the low ready or with the weapon already on target. They ran them from the holster in their version simply because it was required under IDPA rules. Thus duty holster vs. non-retention holster has no bearing on the course.

He wasn't holding police qual standards up as the pinnacle of marksmanship, he was debunking that idea.

<edit>
It does appear that one of the stages is from the holster. The other three aren't.

PHASE ONE - 12 rounds in 25 seconds on the 7 yard line. Start with the weapon holstered, snapped, and both hands down by your side. When the targets turn, draw and fire 2 rounds at the right body, 2 rounds at the left body, 1 round at the left head, and 1 round at the right head. Perform an in battery speed reload with the 5 round magazine and repeat the sequence; 2 right, 2 left, left head, right head. When the phase is completed, perform an out of battery speed reload with the second 7 round magazine, decock and holster. Load two magazines, one with 6 rounds and one with 5 rounds, then place them in the magazine pouches.

PHASE TWO - 2 rounds in 2 seconds on the 10 yard line. Start in a two hand Low Ready. Each time the targets turn, 2 rounds in 2 seconds are fired. First pair on the left target, second pair on the right target, third pair on the left target. Between each pair of rounds you must return to a Low Ready. After the third pair, perform a tactical reload with the 6 round magazine and holster.

PHASE THREE - 6 rounds in 8 seconds on the 12 yard line. Start in a two hand Low Ready. When the targets turn, fire 2 rounds on the right target, 2 rounds on the left target, and 2 rounds on the right target. Perform a tactical reload with the 5 round magazine and holster.

PHASE FOUR - (barricade position) - 1 round in 3 seconds on the 15 yard line. Start in a left hand barricade position (sights aligned on target, finger on the trigger). Each time the targets turn, fire 1 round in 3 seconds on the left target. After the third round, decock and assume a right hand barricade position (sights aligned on target, finger on the trigger). Each time the targets turn, fire 1 round in 3 seconds on the right target. After the last round, unload and holster.


I don't agree with that type of course of fire.
Every course of fire should be starting from a holstered gun.

Quoted:
Oh, yeah, nothing but yellowed band-aids in the aid kit on the range....... thank God it wasn't Golden Sabre.


In all honesty, whose fault is that? If you're tasked with running a range, it is your job to ensure that proper medical supplies are on site before a round goes down range.
If you're training on an identified range, local EMS should know how to get to your location.
You should also have a pre-identified LZ if a victim needs to be airlifted.
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