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Posted: 6/21/2011 9:08:05 AM EDT
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Demand-for-airline-pilots-set-to-soar/48661596/1?bctid=987203670001




I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.




The flying industry is a complete fucking joke. You make more working at mcdonalds and won't have 250k of debt.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:10:42 AM EDT

Someone dropped that article at my desk.

First, we know now that Kit Darby writes as Charisse Jones.

Second, there hasn't been a pilot shortage since Orville and Wilbur flipped a coin to see who would go first.

Third, the airlines will never allow a "pilot shortage."
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:36:12 AM EDT
Curious, what percentage of commercial pilots are former military pilots?
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:40:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Curious, what percentage of commercial pilots are former military pilots?


Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:44:08 AM EDT
$12K is below minimum wage.  Is he working part-time?
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:47:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:49:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:52:12 AM EDT



Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:





Originally Posted By Screechjet1:



Third, the airlines will never allow a "pilot shortage."


What does this mean?

 


Pilot shortage is bad for business.



Pilots would be able to command a premium, and you'd get fewer flights.
 
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:54:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
$12K is below minimum wage.  Is he working part-time?


Nope, thats a full time wage.  That also doesn't include time spent commuting.  The reason I will never be able to work for an airline is the low wage.  I made more last summer flying in Alaska than two of my friends who are regional FO's combined.

The trend for the last 20 years is that military pilots have fallen off the radar, especially at the regional level.  I'd say less than 30% of regional pilots are ex-military.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:54:36 AM EDT
I know very little about the airline industry but have a "cool story bro", well not really.

My neighbor worked is way through the ranks and was a captain for UPS making 6 figures. Then in the early 2000's he quit to make his fortune rehabing/flipping houses.

Any guess as to what he's doing now?



Flying for a small commuter, barely making his mortgage.


This is all according to his wife, she voiced her displeasure to me. I feel bad for them but he took the risk and it didn't pay off.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 9:58:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:

First, we know now that Kit Darby writes as Charisse Jones.


Kit Darby references always crack me up.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:05:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:06:36 AM EDT
Been hearing this shit for years..   this time it might actually happen.

I hate working for a scumbag regional.

I really hope stuff improves.

The pay is horrible and the "lifestyle" is worse than my time in the Marine Corps.

Hope it turns around.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:07:30 AM EDT



Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:

I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.








 
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:08:34 AM EDT



Originally Posted By esa17:



Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

$12K is below minimum wage.  Is he working part-time?




Nope, thats a full time wage.  That also doesn't include time spent commuting.  The reason I will never be able to work for an airline is the low wage.  I made more last summer flying in Alaska than two of my friends who are regional FO's combined.



The trend for the last 20 years is that military pilots have fallen off the radar, especially at the regional level.  I'd say less than 30% of regional pilots are ex-military.


It's insanity that a bus driver can make 3-5 times what a pilot makes.



 
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:12:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2011 10:13:24 AM EDT by esa17]
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


No, it's not:

Colgan Airlines: Source Airlinepilotcentral.com


Taxes are a killer...
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:15:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


I believe him.

One of my first jobs right out of high school was with a company that performed seismic surveys with helicopters.  They hired me as a high-school educated laborer for $12/hour.  

The first (and only) camp I worked at had 4 helicopters and pilots.  The guy that flew me and my crew out to our area told me that he made less than me.  He also claimed that he went $60k in debt to get his rotary license (what he called it).

There were just so many people who wanted to fly helicopters and had the training that Abitibi (the helicopter company) could have picked up the phone and had 50 people begging to replace this guy the same day.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:16:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


No, it's not:

Colgan Airlines: Source Airlinepilotcentral.com
http://jfc17.smugmug.com/photos/i-V4LthhL/0/O/i-V4LthhL.jpg

Taxes are a killer...


How is a guy making $23K paying nearly a 50% tax rate?
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:18:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2011 10:23:27 AM EDT by LuvBUSHmaster]







Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By kill-9:
Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:



I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.





 

No, it's not:
Colgan Airlines: Source Airlinepilotcentral.com



http://jfc17.smugmug.com/photos/i-V4LthhL/0/O/i-V4LthhL.jpg
Taxes are a killer...




If all you net in a year is $26K you are not going to be paying Fed income tax if you are married that is going to be considered "killer".



 
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:27:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


No, it's not:

Colgan Airlines: Source Airlinepilotcentral.com
http://jfc17.smugmug.com/photos/i-V4LthhL/0/O/i-V4LthhL.jpg

Taxes are a killer...


How is a guy making $23K paying nearly a 50% tax rate?


Thats just one that I picked who happens to have one of the lowest pay rates.  If you're hired in May, guess how much money you're going to earn....And yes, you'll pay taxes on it because the only people who take these jobs aren't married.

Now, imagine you're earning that $23k and spending $800 per month to repay your flight training loans.  Before you've spent a single dime on food, rent, and other ancillaries you're pretty much broke.

Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:40:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By esa17:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


No, it's not:

Colgan Airlines: Source Airlinepilotcentral.com
http://jfc17.smugmug.com/photos/i-V4LthhL/0/O/i-V4LthhL.jpg

Taxes are a killer...


How is a guy making $23K paying nearly a 50% tax rate?


Thats just one that I picked who happens to have one of the lowest pay rates.  If you're hired in May, guess how much money you're going to earn....And yes, you'll pay taxes on it because the only people who take these jobs aren't married.

Now, imagine you're earning that $23k and spending $800 per month to repay your flight training loans.  Before you've spent a single dime on food, rent, and other ancillaries you're pretty much broke.


That's the price you pay for doing what many would consider their "dream job".
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:41:08 AM EDT
Read that article over the noon hour.  There has been an impending airline pilot shortage for about fifty years.  Yet they never seem to run out.  

It's a crazy industry.  I'm not part of it, but have tried to follow it's ups and downs over the years.  Why anyone in their right mind would join it is a mystery.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:44:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
Read that article over the noon hour.  There has been an impending airline pilot shortage for about fifty years.  Yet they never seem to run out.  

It's a crazy industry.  I'm not part of it, but have tried to follow it's ups and downs over the years.  Why anyone in their right mind would join it is a mystery.


No doubt.

When that helicopter pilot told me that he was $60k in debt and made less than $12/hour, I can only imagine the look on my face.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:49:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Curious, what percentage of commercial pilots are former military pilots?


An even better question is what percentage are current military pilots (reserve).  
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 10:57:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:

Someone dropped that article at my desk.

First, we know now that Kit Darby writes as Charisse Jones.

Second, there hasn't been a pilot shortage since Orville and Wilbur flipped a coin to see who would go first.

Third, the airlines will never allow a "pilot shortage."


That is funny.  The same thing happened to me today.  How that article qualifies as a piece of journalism is beyond me.  I could shoot ten holes through it without even thinking about it.  I guess it is time to get a new generation in the "school" for the "lucrative" career.  A friend of mine teaches an aviation class at a community college for their professional pilot program.  He has seen a 75% decrease in enrollment  in the last couple years.  I guess the word is finally getting out!  

Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:00:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:

Someone dropped that article at my desk.

First, we know now that Kit Darby writes as Charisse Jones.

Second, there hasn't been a pilot shortage since Orville and Wilbur flipped a coin to see who would go first.

Third, the airlines will never allow a "pilot shortage."


There's about to be one with this 1500 hour thing and the retirement of the 65 year-old guys... or, so I've heard.  I don't think I'd take the pay-cut, thought, to drive a bus.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:02:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:05:09 AM EDT

My bro-in-law was unable to find a gig after he got out of helo school.  Now he works for the school suckering others to go to the school because its such a lucrative field.

Its such a scam.  


Good thing his wife makes over 100K for L3
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:09:29 AM EDT
My brother flies for an airline overseas rather than working here.  

He actually makes very good money, he of course lives in one of the 'stans so ymmv.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:09:55 AM EDT
"It is a dramatic turnaround," says Louis Smith, president of FltOps.com, a website that provides career and financial planning for pilots


Looks like a scam website to me.

I had no idea pilots were so underpaid. I've known one commercial pilot (retired) and he made out pretty well, but he had nothing but negative things to say about his career choice. He made it sound like everyone had their hands in his pockets.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:10:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2011 11:12:51 AM EDT by CFII]
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:13:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:17:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2011 11:24:15 AM EDT by AeroE]
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:18:11 AM EDT
Pilots make money at the top, but not on the way up.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:26:37 AM EDT

I have an uncle and a cousin, both of whom are pilots. Cousin graduated Embry Riddle and went to work for a foundry as a private pilot. He has been in the same job for nearly 25 years and makes well over 6 figures.



Uncle learned to fly rotary on Uncle Sugars dime in Vietnam, left Army as a CWO4, and went to work flying rotary and teaching while getting his fixed wing certs. He soon moved into fixed only and after moving up through a few different companies, now flies G5/6's for NetJets and makes a shitload over six figures, and has for many years.


It all in who you choose to fly for I guess.

Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:31:47 AM EDT
They should put up one of these.........


Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:34:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


This.  Dude must be flying for Mexico air or something like that.  My uncle retired from American Airlines a couple years back.  He made a shit load of money per year.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:40:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:40:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SISUltra:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


This.  Dude must be flying for Mexico air or something like that.  My uncle retired from American Airlines a couple years back.  He made a shit load of money per year.


While I don't know the actual take-home pay, sitting right seat on a regional airline pays peanuts.  Comparing that to a major airline captain is a mistake.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:43:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/21/2011 11:47:28 AM EDT by targettarget]
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By SISUltra:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


This.  Dude must be flying for Mexico air or something like that.  My uncle retired from American Airlines a couple years back.  He made a shit load of money per year.


While I don't know the actual take-home pay, sitting right seat on a regional airline pays peanuts.  Comparing that to a major airline captain is a mistake.


I remember reading about that plane crash in Buffalo (IIRC) a few years ago.  They said that lady who was co-pilot made $12/hour.  

ETA:  
Airline officials acknowledged at the hearing that Shaw was paid at a rate of about $23 an hour. They did not dispute an NTSB investigator who said she made $16,254 a year, although she could have earned more if she worked extra hours.

Colgan officials said their captains typically have salaries of around $55,000 a year.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520028,00.html#ixzz1PwRII2WB


So, not $12/hour, but she didn't even break $20k for the year.  


Link Posted: 6/21/2011 11:48:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By SISUltra:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


This.  Dude must be flying for Mexico air or something like that.  My uncle retired from American Airlines a couple years back.  He made a shit load of money per year.


While I don't know the actual take-home pay, sitting right seat on a regional airline pays peanuts.  Comparing that to a major airline captain is a mistake.


If you are flying for $12K a year you are doing it because you like flying.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 12:59:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:07:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SISUltra:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By SISUltra:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


This.  Dude must be flying for Mexico air or something like that.  My uncle retired from American Airlines a couple years back.  He made a shit load of money per year.


While I don't know the actual take-home pay, sitting right seat on a regional airline pays peanuts.  Comparing that to a major airline captain is a mistake.


If you are flying for $12K a year you are doing it because you like flying.

I'm sure every pilot would love to step right into the good paying long-haul wide bodies.  But there's this "pay your dues" concept in aviation.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:13:26 PM EDT
I admittedly know nothing about the airline industry but apparently there are currently so many pilots that the Airlines can get away with paying a low wage for entry level pilots right? Pilots obviously are willing to work for a low wage so I wouldn't look for any changes as long as that's the case.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:16:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Curious, what percentage of commercial pilots are former military pilots?


Not as many as there used to be is my guess.  Most would be looking at a pay cut to make the jump.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:16:22 PM EDT
I no longer believe that USA Today is actually "written" in a conventional sense.  I think it's extruded from a machine with no real human interaction, much like a tootsie roll.

One big machine shits lumps of the bulk mix out, and another irons 'em out into newspapers...
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:22:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:
Pilots make money at the top, but not on the way up.



You have to get to the top.  That doesn't happen much any more.

Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:25:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By demobud:
I have an uncle and a cousin, both of whom are pilots. Cousin graduated Embry Riddle and went to work for a foundry as a private pilot. He has been in the same job for nearly 25 years and makes well over 6 figures.

Uncle learned to fly rotary on Uncle Sugars dime in Vietnam, left Army as a CWO4, and went to work flying rotary and teaching while getting his fixed wing certs. He soon moved into fixed only and after moving up through a few different companies, now flies G5/6's for NetJets and makes a shitload over six figures, and has for many years.

It all in who you choose to fly for 25 years ago I guess.



Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:33:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By kill-9:

Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:
I attended a top-5 university flight school this previous year and of our 45 graduates we had, 3 actually got a on with an airline, of that one of them is making $12,000/yr.



 


Back your claim.


That's entirely reasonable.

Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:34:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By wingnutx:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:

Third, the airlines will never allow a "pilot shortage."

What does this mean?
 

Pilot shortage is bad for business.

Pilots would be able to command a premium, and you'd get fewer flights.


 

I see that part but what control do the airlines have on the supply of pilots?
 


They will go to the FAA and either demand that foreign pilots be allowed to fly in the US, allow foreign carriers to fly in the US, or create a multi-crew pilot license.
Link Posted: 6/21/2011 1:35:59 PM EDT
The common theme is that the ex-military pilots are the aristocracy, and the flightschool guys are grinding their way up from nothing into the left seat some decade. 12k a year for right seat in a regional is very common. The pilot-in-command is the one being paid, the co-pilot is pretty much limited to reading the checklist, hoping to one day change seats. The regionals take full advantage of that cycle. The big airlines pretty much only take on the .mil pilots that decided to keep flying. I know more than a few that have gone each way and it's always the same.
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