Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Posted: 7/20/2010 3:18:10 PM EDT
Hypothetical:



USA is invaded and the President immediately announces a full unconditional surrender to the invading force. The President issues orders to surrender immediately and offer no resistance.  You're an enlisted man or officer in the US Military. Do you obey?  Is it a legal order?  



Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:19:32 PM EDT
I would say that once he surrenders he is no longer the president...
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:19:36 PM EDT
Fuck no!
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:20:22 PM EDT
Nope.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:20:49 PM EDT
Why would I follow an order from Maobama?
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:20:53 PM EDT
Lock'N'Load.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:20:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2010 3:21:54 PM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]
hell no. I'd go join a resistence group. No invader is welcome, as far as I am concerned.



Death before dishonor, mother fucker.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:21:09 PM EDT




Originally Posted By NextGen:

Fuck no!




Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:22:08 PM EDT




Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:22:50 PM EDT
I do not believe that obedience to government is obedience to god so no, I fight!
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:23:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2010 3:23:20 PM EDT by seven-six-two]
the Halfrican is not a God emperor. Maybe if we're unconditionally surrendering to an opposing force of massively overwhelming superiority (think: Imperial Death Star parked in orbit).





But based on current US Armed Forces, vs the rest of the world? Naah, we'd need a new CIC.

 
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:23:07 PM EDT
No way.



Surrender means the end of constitutional protection of rights. Once that's gone, you're better off risking your life to get it back than living a long time without it.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:23:11 PM EDT
Well, it's like Bugs said.

"You have me dead to rights, Doc; do you want to shoot me now or wait till you get home?"

I opt for the shoot me later.
________________________________________________
("Well, you can either escape or stay here to be executed."––Dalmar
"I opt for choice A."––Ezri Dax to Worf, (w,stte) DS 9 "Strange Bedfellows")
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:23:40 PM EDT
It would be a lawful order... to a member of the armed forces.  He is their commander in chief.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:23:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2010 3:24:32 PM EDT by Infallible]
yes, but not only do I surrender, I fall lock step in with his party and join them.  Hell I would promote them!
Seriously wtf kind of question is this?
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:23:50 PM EDT
depends, do the invaders intend to uphold the constitution?
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:25:06 PM EDT
My stash of 45,308,and 5.56 is going to come in handy. And when I run out. Out come the single action vaquero's and my winchester 94.  I have mucho 45 Colt. Those would be some dead ass invading forces.
Oh and FUCK OBAMA.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:25:17 PM EDT
them sumbitchs come into this country, i'd bet my ass nobody would surrender. if they ever invade us, they'd best bring plenty of armored columns with them, every man in this country is gonna be pot-shotting at their junky ass
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:26:09 PM EDT
Fuck that.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:26:52 PM EDT
Did the Senate Advise and Consent to the surrender?
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:27:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
I would say that once he surrenders he is no longer the president...


This.

Originally Posted By NextGen:
Fuck no!


And that.

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:27:51 PM EDT
He can go fuck himself. That's a dangerous order that will get people needlessly killed. I'll be ignoring that one. I'll be dead lying on a pile of brass before I surrender.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:28:28 PM EDT



Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


It would be a lawful order... to a member of the armed forces.  He is their commander in chief.


I have an uncle that refused an order from General MacArthur to surrender to the Japanese in the Philippines. He commanded Filipino guerrilla unit in Northern Luzon. He was captured and executed. Supposedly he was denied the MOH because he disobeyed an order.



Not all orders are justified.



 
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:28:32 PM EDT
My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:30:00 PM EDT
Fuck no.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:30:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2010 3:46:21 PM EDT by Erevis]
Originally Posted By c0t0d0s0:
I would say that once he surrenders he is no longer the president...


THIS.



–– John



ETA:  I am not in the military.  I am under no obligation to do anything the President orders me to do.  Period.


Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:31:11 PM EDT




Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...


No?  Yours must have been different than mine:



"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:31:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
It would be a lawful order... to a member of the armed forces.  He is their commander in chief.


Yup.  It's one of the advantages of being a civilian.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:31:40 PM EDT
No.

Military or civilian, NO.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:32:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Infallible:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...

No?  Yours must have been different than mine:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


Oops!
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:33:29 PM EDT




Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

It would be a lawful order... to a member of the armed forces. He is their commander in chief.


If foreigners are calling the shots, he is commander in chief of nobody.



Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:33:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:33:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VRMN8R:

Originally Posted By NextGen:
Fuck no!




Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:34:43 PM EDT
WOLVERINES!!!


damn ARFCOM ya'll are slippin!
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:34:54 PM EDT
Fuck no.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:35:45 PM EDT
If Oblamba surrenders, all bets are off !

If the bad guys invade, I will stand for freedom of the individual, fight and die for what I believe
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:36:23 PM EDT
Fuck obama.  


And no!  He isn't my President. He can surrender his fucking Kenyan ass.

My ass will fight to the death.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:36:38 PM EDT



Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:


hell no. I'd go join a resistence group. No invader is welcome, as far as I am concerned.



Death before dishonor, mother fucker.






 
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:36:54 PM EDT
Sit on my porch and pop commies.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:37:49 PM EDT
Where is Dave_A?

I HAVE to read his take on this...

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:37:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:38:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VRMN8R:

Originally Posted By NextGen:
Fuck no!




Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:38:18 PM EDT
I just became an unlawful combatant.  As soon as he gave that order, I'm no longer a part of the military and thus not subject to lawful orders anymore.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:38:52 PM EDT



Originally Posted By epnurse:



Originally Posted By VRMN8R:




Originally Posted By NextGen:

Fuck no!














 
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:39:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2010 3:40:25 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
Originally Posted By Infallible:
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...

No?  Yours must have been different than mine:


Indeed.

"I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."


I've sworn the Oath of Enlistment, as well.  But that was superseded by my current office.  And I take my responsibilities seriously.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:40:35 PM EDT
I do not believe an order to unconditionally surrender is a lawful order.  Therefore I would not surrender.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:40:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Infallible:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...

No?  Yours must have been different than mine:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


Heres why I expect the military to take guns etc if told to do so, everyone mentions the part in blue, but they always forget this part-

"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"


I know which is more important and it does happen to come first
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:42:01 PM EDT




Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:



Originally Posted By Infallible:



Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...


No? Yours must have been different than mine:




Indeed.





"I, _____, having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."




I've sworn the Oath of Enlistment, as well. But that was superseded by my current office. And I take my responsibilities seriously.


when did it change?

Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:42:56 PM EDT




Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

My Oath made no mention of obedience to the President, but rather the Constitution...


Yes, the Constitution is the ULTIMATE authority that I swore to upheld.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:44:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Infallible:
when did it change?


The Oath of Enlistment has been the same since October of 1962.  The Oath of Office since August of 1959.
Link Posted: 7/20/2010 3:46:41 PM EDT
A rifle behind every blade of grass, motherfucker!
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Top Top