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Posted: 6/13/2009 5:20:16 PM EST
Fleece tops list of uniform changes

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff report
Posted : Saturday Jun 13, 2009 9:32:56 EDT


The Air Force is trying out a third sage-green boot. This one is full-grain leather in response to complaints that suede is too hard to keep clean.


The Air Force has decided to let airmen where fleece jackets, provided they have detachable embroidered cloth tapes with "Air Force," rank insignia and last name.

Air Force leaders have listened to requests from the force and agreed to let airmen wear the fleece liner of the nylon APECS jacket by itself — with minor alterations.

Under the old wear rules, the zippered fleece jacket could be worn only as a layer underneath the all-purpose environmental clothing system jacket.

But the Army allows soldiers to wear an identical fleece jacket with their combat uniform, and airmen asked if they could do the same.

Air Force leaders gave the go-ahead at their June Corona meeting, as long as small changes are made to the jacket, said Lt. Gen. Richard Newton, deputy chief of staff for personnel.

Acceptable jackets must have Velcro strips on the chest for detachable embroidered cloth tapes with the airman’s rank insignia, last name and the words “Air Force.”

The Army and Air Force Exchange Service is working to retrofit thousands of fleece jackets ordered before the Corona decision, said Ruth Ewalt, a spokeswoman with the Air Force Uniform Office. It is not known when the altered jackets will arrive in Air Force uniform stores.

But airmen who already own a fleece jacket may be able to save some money by retrofitting the liner themselves.

The uniform office expects to sell the rank, name and “Air Force” cloth strips.

Also on the Corona agenda was the heritage coat, the blue coat proposed to replace the service dress coat.

Service leaders could have closed the closet door on the coat, but they put off a final decision until next spring.

“We want to improve the uniforms that our airmen are currently wearing,” Newton said.

A beltless version of the heritage coat scored well in a wear test earlier this year, though even airmen who liked the coat questioned whether the Air Force should be spending time and money on the uniform change.

Besides letting airmen wear the fleece jacket liner by itself, Air Force leaders OK’d a host of other uniform rules at their Corona meeting in June.

The changes:

* Airmen can talk on their personal cell phones while in uniform and walking. The cell phone must be a “conservative color” and talking on a phone is no excuse for not saluting. Still prohibited is wearing hands-free devices.

* Enlisted chevrons will be worn on lightweight blue jacket sleeves instead of the metal rank insignias on the collar. Airmen have until Jan. 1, 2010, to add the chevrons.

* Effective Oct. 1, 2010, trousers on utility uniforms must be tucked into boots. Tucking in had been optional.

* The ends of boot laces must be tucked into boots. Wrapping the laces around the boot is OK.

* Organizational caps, such as ball caps with unit insignia, no longer can be stowed in battle dress uniform pockets or fastened to the uniform with the BDU.

* Upper sleeve pockets are authorized on fire-resistant clothing authorized for the Central Command region.

* Airmen earning the Army Parachute Riggers badge are authorized permanent wear on all uniform combinations. For the airman battle uniform and BDU, the badge will be blue. On the desert combat uniform, the approved color is brown.

* Wearing the black Army Air Assault Badge on the battle dress uniform is authorized upon graduation from Air Assault School.

The changes below will take effect once wear rules are established or as the redesigned items arrive in stores:

* The female ABU trouser fly buttons will be the same as on men’s pants.

* Addition of a small ABU name tape on the pocket flap is approved for the APECS’ left sleeve.

* The commanders want the ABU sleeve’s pen pocket redesigned so that when the arm is bent, pens and pencils don’t break or puncture the fabric.

* The ABU lower leg pocket will be made longer.

* The addition of side buttons that allow the maternity ABU trouser to expand is approved.

* Commanders want physical training uniform wear guidance revised to reflect a “more professional image.”
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:32:42 PM EST
in my own opinion, ABUS SUCKS!
so does the accessories.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:34:14 PM EST
Are they so bored that they have time to fix shit that isn't broken?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:35:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 5:41:23 PM EST by Bugalaman]
damn, I'm going to have to get stripes sewed on my lightweight blue jacket

ETA, hmmm wtf the fleece thing I was given is black, WTF am I supposed to do with that
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:35:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 5:38:19 PM EST by 2000Z3M]
FUCK having to tuck my pants

Eta, also we can talk on a cell phone now when walking, but still can't drink and walk

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:36:22 PM EST
The fleece is cool except the rank/name/service.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:38:57 PM EST
Probably just the photo, but those boots look like vinyl.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:43:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:43:52 PM EST
it looks like that fleece has the fuzzy part on the inside too
the only thing I hate about my 5.11 fleece jacket and most other fleece jackets I've seen is that it's smooth nylon on the inside so it doesn't really do much for warmth
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:45:48 PM EST
Good grief... those look like plastic GI Joe boots. WTF?

I don't mind the sage suede boots for looks but... damn. Those new ones look like ass.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:52:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 5:58:13 PM EST by Hanzerik]
That boot really looks like crap. I am still wearing my desert boots I got issued back in 98 because I can't stand the sage boots. And the fleece...really? I don't think the fleece should be an outer garment outside of your immediate work area. If you are cold or are going to get wet while outside, wear the freaking jacket. Tucking trousers into your boots? Mine have so much extra material in the legs that there would not be enough room in the boot, plus it looks like crap (IMO) when they are tucked in for normal day to day wear. Field conditions, sure.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:53:21 PM EST
Fleece as outerwear is a welcome change.

Mandating tucking trousers into boots in garrison is lame.

On the boots, is Kiwi going to make green boot polish now?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:54:32 PM EST
awesome green Ronald McDonald shoes guys, way to go.

Honestly the whole uniform thing, for all services, is completely fucked. My soldiers have boots soley for the motor pool now because the flesh-out suede soaks up oils like a sponge. Ditto the ACU, the fleece, the fluffy extreme cold weather jacket, all that crap is TERRIBLE for hiding dirt.

But guess what, it sure looks snappy right out of the clothing and sales, and as is typical, the actual costs of the solution are borne at the lowest level...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:54:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 5:56:21 PM EST by Beamy]
the fleece looks cool, but those boots

I'm in the Maintenance field and yes my current grren ABU boots are more black than green, but those those things look horrible.



tucking in the boots, IMHO thats gay, I had no problem using blousing straps.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:59:31 PM EST
kiwi already has burgandy and blue
they might even have green and I just haven't found it yet
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:02:36 PM EST
Anyone here at mountain home afb?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:09:54 PM EST
Wow that looks like ASS!!!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:12:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:15:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By dpmmn:

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Wow that looks like ASS!!!


agreed


Yup.

No offense, but having worked for an AF agency for a year, you guys are all dicked up when it comes to uniforms.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:17:51 PM EST
Gh-ey!

Especially the 'you will now shine your GREEN boots' crap that will undoubtedly come forward, from a force that didn't figure out that the POINT of suede boots is to NOT clean them!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:18:16 PM EST
Well, it's good that leaders are listening to our feedback.

On the other hand, I don't think it's a good idea to mandate tucking the trousers into the boots. I can see why people would want to, but I personally hate the way it looks & feels when I do it.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:19:21 PM EST
I will never understand why the AF didn't just take the ABU's and use them. they spent a lot of money researching some stupid patterns and designs and ended up with an Army knock off anyway.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:10:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fnkystuf:
Well, it's good that leaders are listening to our feedback.

On the other hand, I don't think it's a good idea to mandate tucking the trousers into the boots. I can see why people would want to, but I personally hate the way it looks & feels when I do it.

I don't know about the AF, but it makes sense for the Army in terms of field-craft & keeping critters out of your pant legs...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:20:33 PM EST
so what color polish do you use for green?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:30:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By Fnkystuf:
Well, it's good that leaders are listening to our feedback.

On the other hand, I don't think it's a good idea to mandate tucking the trousers into the boots. I can see why people would want to, but I personally hate the way it looks & feels when I do it.


I guess I'll have to go and buy bigger boots so that I can fit my pants into the damn things. WTF did they think was wrong with blousing straps?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:31:41 PM EST
Gay boots, and why not a regular black fleece?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:31:53 PM EST
Marine corps still has it straight on uniforms, don't know about ya'll.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:34:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Gay boots, and why not a regular black fleece?


You mean the ones that are already in the supply system and almost everyone already has issued? We surely can't use that black fleece jacket.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:39:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 8:40:15 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By -GunNutJuell-:
Gay boots, and why not a regular black fleece?


You mean the ones that are already in the supply system and almost everyone already has issued? We surely can't use that black fleece jacket.

That green fleece is also in the supply system...

It's issued by the Army now, or at least to Army Aviation...

My unit got them while downrange... Supposedly more fire-safe than the black ones...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:59:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Chromekilla:
Anyone here at mountain home afb?


Im sent
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:05:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:08:14 PM EST
I know I speak for myself and all of my coworkers when I say you can have my blousing straps when you pry them from my cold dead fingers. There's no way in hell I'm tucking my pants into my boots. It looks like total dogshit and it's uncomfortable as well. The AF is just going to have to live with one less lazy ass slob.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:11:13 PM EST
Where'd you get this info? Everything I've read said that tucking your pants into your boots was effective immediately not 1 Oct '10.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:11:48 PM EST
Two years ago, I really should have hung up my AF uniform and just called it a career.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:12:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Chairborne:
I know I speak for myself and all of my coworkers when I say you can have my blousing straps when you pry them from my cold dead fingers. There's no way in hell I'm tucking my pants into my boots. It looks like total dogshit and it's uncomfortable as well. The AF is just going to have to live with one less lazy ass slob.

I couldn't have said it better myself!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:13:53 PM EST
Great, now I get to buy more shit.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:16:38 PM EST
Chalk up yet another reason why I'm glad I get to wear a flightsuit to work - even on Mondays.;)
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:20:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gh-ey!

Especially the 'you will now shine your GREEN boots' crap that will undoubtedly come forward, from a force that didn't figure out that the POINT of suede boots is to NOT clean them!


Course sandpaper or a stiff brush-works great. I have to wonder about sage-colored boots, though (as in, would excessively stiff brushes or too much sandpaper wear away the sage colored dye in the leather?) . Might be easier to just go with coyote brown.

Rough-out leather is the only way to go. It just bewilders me that anyone would want to go back to polishing a fucking boot.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:25:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
It just bewilders me that anyone would want to go back to polishing a fucking boot.

Yeah fuck that!!!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:25:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Fnkystuf:
Well, it's good that leaders are listening to our feedback.

On the other hand, I don't think it's a good idea to mandate tucking the trousers into the boots. I can see why people would want to, but I personally hate the way it looks & feels when I do it.

I don't know about the AF, but it makes sense for the Army in terms of field-craft & keeping critters out of your pant legs...


It's more fun to overcomplicate things and then convince yourself you are better than the Army for doing so.

I still laugh when I see Marines with helmet bands. For years I remember them making fun of the Army for having them. Same with name tapes on uniforms. It's like they are afraid to adopt a good idea that was not thought of internally.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:39:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Fnkystuf:
Well, it's good that leaders are listening to our feedback.

On the other hand, I don't think it's a good idea to mandate tucking the trousers into the boots. I can see why people would want to, but I personally hate the way it looks & feels when I do it.

I don't know about the AF, but it makes sense for the Army in terms of field-craft & keeping critters out of your pant legs...


It's more fun to overcomplicate things and then convince yourself you are better than the Army for doing so.

I still laugh when I see Marines with helmet bands. For years I remember them making fun of the Army for having them. Same with name tapes on uniforms. It's like they are afraid to adopt a good idea that was not thought of internally.


The name tapes I (and many others) can do without. We got along quite well without them for the first eight or nine years of my career. Everyone has a name in the Marine Corps, and we wear it on our collars. The problem isn't the name tapes in and of themselves. It's the thought of some moron down the road thinking that hanging a bunch of shit on our uniform is a swell idea because everybody else does it. Fuck.That.Shit. Part of the problem was the "convict" look that resulted in Marines painting their last names on the backs of their cammie blouses (and cargo pocket flap of their trousers) when aboard ship for laundry purposes. I suppose "blame tapes" serve a purpose in that regard. Either way, I'm not going to worry about it. During Desert Shield / Desert Storm, the wearing of the desert "booney cover" created months of controversy over how it was to be properly worn (rolls eyes, shakes head).

I agree with you about helmet bands. After the helmet bands became accepted, then it was the "cat eyes" that were verbotten. Marines are slow to change in some ways because of traditions that are so prominant in our service culture. It can be both a good and bad thing.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:16:18 PM EST
all the uniforms right now suck. i dont know what the military is thinking, i hate my ACUs, good idea poor execution. there needs to be one standard for everyone. i cant wait to see what the navy cooks up.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:16:49 PM EST
Wow
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:16:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By AFSilverado:

Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
It just bewilders me that anyone would want to go back to polishing a fucking boot.

Yeah fuck that!!!


No fucking shit!

Someone might mistake you for some kind of seriously squared away military type! (YUK!!!)
We can't have that now can we?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:26:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By CAsoldier:
all the uniforms right now suck. i dont know what the military is thinking, i hate my ACUs, good idea poor execution. there needs to be one standard for everyone. i cant wait to see what the navy cooks up.


Have you not seen the blue digital thing they have

Navy Digital Camo
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:32:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By egress81:
Originally Posted By CAsoldier:
all the uniforms right now suck. i dont know what the military is thinking, i hate my ACUs, good idea poor execution. there needs to be one standard for everyone. i cant wait to see what the navy cooks up.


Have you not seen the blue digital thing they have

Navy Digital Camo






Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:36:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Originally Posted By AFSilverado:

Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
It just bewilders me that anyone would want to go back to polishing a fucking boot.

Yeah fuck that!!!


No fucking shit!

Someone might mistake you for some kind of seriously squared away military type! (YUK!!!)
We can't have that now can we?



The 'squared away military' appearance has changed so many times in history, why not let it change again?

Finally wake up, and let form FOLLOW function, instead of the other way around!

We have dress uniforms for 'look cool' events...

Work uniforms should be wash & wear... Boots should be maintainance-free...

Getting wrapped up in uniform appearance, beyond wearing it all & being in the right uniform, is the sort of garrison bullshit that leads to CSM PTBeltNazi types wandering around FOBs in Iraq looking for victims...


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:43:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 10:45:11 PM EST by MACD]
Oh, come the fuck on... again??

I'm glad we don't have a war, or some other pesky shit to worry about.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:45:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Gh-ey!

Especially the 'you will now shine your GREEN boots' crap that will undoubtedly come forward, from a force that didn't figure out that the POINT of suede boots is to NOT clean them!


Course sandpaper or a stiff brush-works great. I have to wonder about sage-colored boots, though (as in, would excessively stiff brushes or too much sandpaper wear away the sage colored dye in the leather?) . Might be easier to just go with coyote brown.

Rough-out leather is the only way to go. It just bewilders me that anyone would want to go back to polishing a fucking boot.

They still exist in the Army...

Waahh... I miss the black boots... I miss BDUs... This is too easy...

The funny thing is, before the Army wore black boots, IIRC, we were in rough-out brown ones...

That said, at least we don't have the AF's Man-Love-ThursdayClass-A-Monday....



Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:55:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dragonfly228:
so what color polish do you use for green?


Clear.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:12:25 PM EST


...before the Army wore black boots, IIRC, we were in rough-out brown ones...


I think they were brown, but not rough-out (I believe the Navy wore the same or similar boots too - One of my uncles used to bitch incessantly about having to shine engine-oiled boots)
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