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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/6/2006 6:10:01 PM EDT
Missile brain drain

The Pentagon risks running out of scientists to operate and upgrade the nation’s arsenal of intercontinental nuclear and conventional missiles, according to a report released in March by the Defense Science Board.

As veteran engineers and scientists retire, the military will lose much of its expertise in long-range missile technology, the report says. That means the Air Force and Navy, which operate most of the 1960s-vintage missiles, will be unable to cope with system failures or develop improved weapons, the report says.

Not only are fewer American engineers and scientists choosing to work on missile technology, there are fewer of them altogether, the report says. Each year, about 70,000 Americans receive undergraduate and graduate science and engineering degrees that are defense-related, compared with a combined 200,000 in China and India, the report says.

Lt. Gen. Frank Klotz, acting head of Air Force Space Command, told a Senate committee in March that the Pentagon is trying to improve recruiting and retention.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:11:12 PM EDT
I think we understand some of the underpinnings of the President wanting to update our nuclear deterrent.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:09:06 PM EDT
Just another peice of the puzzle in the coming decline of the United States
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:13:18 PM EDT
They can hire me I'll go build missiles for them...
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:32:28 PM EDT
All it takes is money, because that is about all the job has to offer.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:
All it takes is money, because that is about all the job has to offer.



if you're an engineering major, ROTC will give you a scholarship almost immediately. they are in desperate need for engineers
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:41:47 PM EDT
Its not just missiles, its the entire defense industrial base that will hurt within the next 10 years as the core of talent that developed today's wonder weapons retires. The Bush 1 defense cutbacks in 1991, eight years of non-spending under Clinton and Bush Jr's lackluster Pentagon procurement spending has not been conducive to bring new talent into the defense industry. The pay isn't as good as other industries and promotions are scarce due to lack of production programs.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:45:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 7:46:03 PM EDT by SevenMMmag]
why aren't young engineers choosing this line of work? Pay problems? No real chance for promotion?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:47:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
All it takes is money, because that is about all the job has to offer.



if you're an engineering major, ROTC will give you a scholarship almost immediately. they are in desperate need for engineers



I'm an engineering General - I've been doing this stuff over 20 years, and probably will be a few more. Jobs in my specialty are plentiful and qualified engineers, let alone those that will put up with the work, are few.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:48:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:
why aren't young engineers choosing this line of work? Pay problems? No real chance for promotion?



what young engineers? nobody's majoring in engineering anymore
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:49:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:
why aren't young engineers choosing this line of work? Pay problems? No real chance for promotion?



what young engineers? nobody's majoring in engineering anymore



somebody didn't tell me
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:54:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 7:55:22 PM EDT by mattja]
I strongly suggest some of you guys read the job ads that come out of Lockheed and the other large defense companies. I don't know how they do it, but they take jobs that might be interesting and make them appear boring beyond belief. Is it any wonder kids are not interested? And, you know, some of those jobs really are boring as shit. If you have even a shred of intelligence and creativity, you can find something more interesting to do.

If they are having a difficult time attracting people, it's because the work is boring, they are too picky AND refuse to train, or they limit their searches to people who have active security clearances.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:55:03 PM EDT
No one gave me that memo, In fact I got doubled in two degrees in engineering, Aerospace and Nuclear. HAHA, hopefully there is still an aerospace industry left by the time I'm done with my masters.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:56:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
No one gave me that memo, In fact I got doubled in two degrees in engineering, Aerospace and Nuclear. HAHA, hopefully there is still an aerospace industry left by the time I'm done with my masters.



sure, but you'll have to move to india to get a job
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:01:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
No one gave me that memo, In fact I got doubled in two degrees in engineering, Aerospace and Nuclear. HAHA, hopefully there is still an aerospace industry left by the time I'm done with my masters.



sure, but you'll have to move to india to get a job





Please god let there be a nuclear war between China and India in the next few years...
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:09:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
I strongly suggest some of you guys read the job ads that come out of Lockheed and the other large defense companies. I don't know how they do it, but they take jobs that might be interesting and make them appear boring beyond belief. Is it any wonder kids are not interested? And, you know, some of those jobs really are boring as shit. If you have even a shred of intelligence and creativity, you can find something more interesting to do.

If they are having a difficult time attracting people, it's because the work is boring, they are too picky AND refuse to train, or they limit their searches to people who have active security clearances.



The jobs aren't made to sound boring, hell, those descriptions are dressed up so the companies can take them out in public and have a prayer of trapping some poor bastard.

I work at the very leading edge of the industry, and much of what we do is no more than mental ditch digging, accompanied by all sorts of second guessing by the unqualified (let alone the criminally negligent) about the ditch I specify. And now we are buried in all sorts of training for ethics, kick backs, export compliance, you name it - most of which was once adequately covered by common sense and basic everyday courtesy, and I'll bet a $100 any time that there will be another scandal involving a Boeing manager in the next 6 months.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:10:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By realwar:
They can hire me I'll go build missiles for them...



+1

<-----------see the name?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:11:26 PM EDT
Solution: Launch all the older models now!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:14:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 12:27:52 PM EDT by zrxc77]

Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:

why aren't young engineers choosing this line of work? Pay problems? No real chance for promotion?



I think DnPRK summed it up pretty well:


Originally Posted By DnPRK:

Its not just missiles, its the entire defense industrial base that will hurt within the next 10 years as the core of talent that developed today's wonder weapons retires. The Bush 1 defense cutbacks in 1991, eight years of non-spending under Clinton and Bush Jr's lackluster Pentagon procurement spending has not been conducive to bring new talent into the defense industry. The pay isn't as good as other industries and promotions are scarce due to lack of production programs.



I spent 13 years working in the field. The pay was not terrible, but it was nowhere near what people with much less training and experience were making in financial industries and the dot-com boom companies.

The constant downsizing was very draining; you were always working with the threat of layoffs hanging above you and saying goodbye to former colleagues who didn't make the cut. Perversely, it left little room for advancement because people who might otherwise have moved to other positions and opened up space for underlings instead hunkered down to hold on to what they already had.

The ever dwindling production meant that instead of actually producing something tangible, you ended up doing nothing but creating PowerPoint presentations for projects that would inevitably be shelved due to lack of funding. Even projects that did receive funding were pushed out so long that there was a real chance you would never see the fruits of your labor actually reach production during your career.

And to top it all off, you got no respect and no support from the average American.

Add it all up, and there was very little incentive to stay. Eventually, I had enough and left it behind. It was too bad, because when I first started it was a great job, and one where I could actually contribute something to my country.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:46:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Missile brain drain

The Pentagon risks running out of scientists to operate and upgrade the nation’s arsenal of intercontinental nuclear and conventional missiles, according to a report released in March by the Defense Science Board.

As veteran engineers and scientists retire, the military will lose much of its expertise in long-range missile technology, the report says. That means the Air Force and Navy, which operate most of the 1960s-vintage missiles, will be unable to cope with system failures or develop improved weapons, the report says.

Not only are fewer American engineers and scientists choosing to work on missile technology, there are fewer of them altogether, the report says. Each year, about 70,000 Americans receive undergraduate and graduate science and engineering degrees that are defense-related, compared with a combined 200,000 in China and India, the report says.

Lt. Gen. Frank Klotz, acting head of Air Force Space Command, told a Senate committee in March that the Pentagon is trying to improve recruiting and retention.



Man...don't get me started on this topic. As the shrinking knowledge base is only ONE of many problems facing the US.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:57:19 PM EDT
There are several problems with "those" jobs.

those jobs are not available to regular people. You need to know someone to get hired. They hire trogladites that they know instead of recruiting from the masses.

they dont pay as well as other commercial jobs.

they are typically boring.

they require lots of paper work downtime.

they application process is very daunting.

they dont advertise for openings.

they usually require you to move to some shithole of a city.

the people are usually have very sterile personalities and are paycheck zombies.

.....all of these things are very apparant to the young scientist or engineer.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:05:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:

USAF Missile brain drain, veteran engineers and scientists retiring



... Yes sir!

... And the consulting fields are ripe for harvest!
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:11:46 PM EDT
Can't they just hire illegals? I am sure that W. would say it okay, after all they do the jobs that Americans won't do.

Seriously I am interested as long as I get to see something get blown up occasionally. Where does one find these jobs listed at anyway, what companies or is it all just military?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:59:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
The constant downsizing was very draining; you were always working with the threat of layoffs hanging above you and saying goodbye to former colleagues who didn't make the cut. Perversely, it left little room for advancement because people who might otherwise have moved to other positions and opened up space for underlings instead hunkered down to hold on to what they already had.



And the double whammy with that is in many engineering disciplines, you have to get promoted into line management or PM ASAP, because once you reach a certain age, you will be considered out of touch simply by virtue of your age, which makes you a prime candidate for getting the cut when the project is completed or the contract canceled. This kind of pressure results in continual reinvention of the wheel, as good engineers cannot risk working as engineers forever.

There is a reason why the young guys are now saying they want to work as engineers for 3-5 years max, and then get into some kind of management role. For a lot of people, engineering is a dead end – there is no longevity, especially in the software side.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:07:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:

And the double whammy with that is in many engineering disciplines, you have to get promoted into line management or PM ASAP, because once you reach a certain age, you will be considered out of touch simply by virtue of your age, which makes you a prime candidate for getting the cut when the project is completed or the contract canceled. This kind of pressure results in continual reinvention of the wheel, as good engineers cannot risk working as engineers forever.

There is a reason why the young guys are now saying they want to work as engineers for 3-5 years max, and then get into some kind of management role. For a lot of people, engineering is a dead end – there is no longevity, especially in the software side.


Agreed.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:19:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 11:20:12 PM EDT by Winston_Wolf]

Originally Posted By mattja:

And the double whammy with that is in many engineering disciplines, you have to get promoted into line management or PM ASAP, because once you reach a certain age, you will be considered out of touch simply by virtue of your age, which makes you a prime candidate for getting the cut when the project is completed or the contract canceled. This kind of pressure results in continual reinvention of the wheel, as good engineers cannot risk working as engineers forever.

There is a reason why the young guys are now saying they want to work as engineers for 3-5 years max, and then get into some kind of management role. For a lot of people, engineering is a dead end – there is no longevity, especially in the software side.



... Except for the software side, this simply isn't true in my field. IPT teams are starving for good engineers. Engineers that not only "draw parts", but perform entire life-cycle planning for product. That's where the demand is. Writing code or just modeling parts on a CAD system don't cut it these days. I won't hire a PhD, specialized "draftsman", but I would take under my wing a bright-eyed, free-thinking BS graduate that had their heart and spirit in the team's interest.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:21:52 PM EDT
The whole USofA is spoiled because they had a HUGE pool of talented baby boomers, and of course they got taken advantage of because the huger corporations can fire them at a drop of the hat and hire someone else tomorrow. Now the industry is faced with the post-baby boom shortage of people. Serves them right.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:40:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By mattja:

And the double whammy with that is in many engineering disciplines, you have to get promoted into line management or PM ASAP, because once you reach a certain age, you will be considered out of touch simply by virtue of your age, which makes you a prime candidate for getting the cut when the project is completed or the contract canceled. This kind of pressure results in continual reinvention of the wheel, as good engineers cannot risk working as engineers forever.

There is a reason why the young guys are now saying they want to work as engineers for 3-5 years max, and then get into some kind of management role. For a lot of people, engineering is a dead end – there is no longevity, especially in the software side.



... Except for the software side, this simply isn't true in my field. IPT teams are starving for good engineers. Engineers that not only "draw parts", but perform entire life-cycle planning for product. That's where the demand is. Writing code or just modeling parts on a CAD system don't cut it these days. I won't hire a PhD, specialized "draftsman", but I would take under my wing a bright-eyed, free-thinking BS graduate that had their heart and spirit in the team's interest.



Well, what I said is true for electrical engineers as well. But it may be less true for people who have a security clearance, because there is a shortage.

I'm sure there are specialized fields where it is not true, but that is the exception, not the rule.

The rule today seems to be a lot of engineering is viewed as a dead end, which may explain why accounting is now the hot major.

Think about it. Why bust you ass taking the toughest courses in school when, unlike many professions, your experience is viewed as less valuable as you age?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:26:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 12:31:05 AM EDT by KS_Physicist]

Originally Posted By mattja:
I strongly suggest some of you guys read the job ads that come out of Lockheed and the other large defense companies. I don't know how they do it, but they take jobs that might be interesting and make them appear boring beyond belief. Is it any wonder kids are not interested? And, you know, some of those jobs really are boring as shit. If you have even a shred of intelligence and creativity, you can find something more interesting to do.

If they are having a difficult time attracting people, it's because the work is boring, they are too picky AND refuse to train, or they limit their searches to people who have active security clearances.



I know professors and career counselors who swear up and down that bachelor's and master's degreed physicists get hired into engineering disciplines at defense companies like Raytheon and Lockheed.

But, being in the job market now, I (and others I know) also have contact with HR people at Raytheon, Lockheed and others who swear up and down that the first absolute requirement for any engineering position they have open is a four year degree in engineering from an ABET accredited engineering school. Science degrees need not apply...

Jim

ETA: I am hunting down the programs that a couple of recruiters from Raytheon and Lockheed mentioned that are designed specifically to take science and math majors and train them into something to do with R&D and engineering. So there is hope yet...but not if you ask the HR contacts, who consistently claim that they don't hire physicists at any level (which is known to be false).
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:00:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SevenMMmag:
why aren't young engineers choosing this line of work? Pay problems? No real chance for promotion?


Lack of jobs is the big thing. Well, I'm talking about with electrical engineering since without exception everyone I know with an engineering degree has one in EE. I have a great nephew that graduated in EE from GA Tech and another from Clemson both in 1993, and neither of them has been able to find a local job in their field in almost a decade. About a year ago when we talked about this, we came-up with almost four dozen EE's that we know between the three of us, and not a single one of them still has a job in their field. Out of all of them that I know what they make all make less than they could have if they didn't go to school and instead became a plumber or HVAC repairman. The job market for real EE's in this country is very sparse, and the pay is terrible.z
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:41:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:

Originally Posted By mattja:

And the double whammy with that is in many engineering disciplines, you have to get promoted into line management or PM ASAP, because once you reach a certain age, you will be considered out of touch simply by virtue of your age, which makes you a prime candidate for getting the cut when the project is completed or the contract canceled. This kind of pressure results in continual reinvention of the wheel, as good engineers cannot risk working as engineers forever.

There is a reason why the young guys are now saying they want to work as engineers for 3-5 years max, and then get into some kind of management role. For a lot of people, engineering is a dead end – there is no longevity, especially in the software side.



... Except for the software side, this simply isn't true in my field. IPT teams are starving for good engineers. Engineers that not only "draw parts", but perform entire life-cycle planning for product. That's where the demand is. Writing code or just modeling parts on a CAD system don't cut it these days. I won't hire a PhD, specialized "draftsman", but I would take under my wing a bright-eyed, free-thinking BS graduate that had their heart and spirit in the team's interest.



Bingo. I'm 60 now, have spend my entire post-mil career as an engineer on the same contract (various Contractors over the years but I just swapped badges, not jobs), and I'm the ONLY "old-fart" left in Systems Engineering. Thankfully, there are 15 or 20 other "old-farts" still here in the Development Engineering area (and yep, they DO know more about the detailed design stuff than I do) so we're not extinct - yet...
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:53:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 2:54:12 AM EDT by Merlin]

Originally Posted By AeroE:
.....

The jobs aren't made to sound boring, hell, those descriptions are dressed up so the companies can take them out in public and have a prayer of trapping some poor bastard.

I work at the very leading edge of the industry, and much of what we do is no more than mental ditch digging, accompanied by all sorts of second guessing by the unqualified (let alone the criminally negligent) about the ditch I specify. And now we are buried in all sorts of training for ethics, kick backs, export compliance, you name it - most of which was once adequately covered by common sense and basic everyday courtesy, and I'll bet a $100 any time that there will be another scandal involving a Boeing manager in the next 6 months.




Isn't Training Tracker fun??? Going through it right now. Already had to repeat one frigging class 'cause the stupid POS system couldn't keep up....

Engineer for 25 years now, all at the same company. About half in defense, about half for NASA. I'll never work for NASA again, talk about a bunch of forking management idiots!

Merlin
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:13:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
The constant downsizing was very draining; you were always working with the threat of layoffs hanging above you and saying goodbye to former colleagues who didn't make the cut. Perversely, it left little room for advancement because people who might otherwise have moved to other positions and opened up space for underlings instead hunkered down to hold on to what they already had.



And the double whammy with that is in many engineering disciplines, you have to get promoted into line management or PM ASAP, because once you reach a certain age, you will be considered out of touch simply by virtue of your age, which makes you a prime candidate for getting the cut when the project is completed or the contract canceled. This kind of pressure results in continual reinvention of the wheel, as good engineers cannot risk working as engineers forever.

There is a reason why the young guys are now saying they want to work as engineers for 3-5 years max, and then get into some kind of management role. For a lot of people, engineering is a dead end – there is no longevity, especially in the software side.



I had a long rant that got cancelled when my wife fiddled with a drive on the computer, so I'll repeat a shorter version.

In my specialty, 3 to 5 years of training is required before an engineer is considered to be finished and ready to pull hard in the traces. With the advent of the management class at Boeing, engineers no longer have aspirations of remaining in engineering jobs with increasing responsibility - the only disticntion between grade 4 through 6 engineers is the pay scale, and that includes responsibility for acting as a lead over a group.

If you want to be a strength engineer, the field is secure and free from layoffs unless you are a screw-up. Be prepared to work more overtime than any other discipline except the design groups, with far less repsect.
Look here if you're looking for a job - www/boeing.com, and hope your resume' gets past the electronic screener, because that's the only way in unless you are taking an executive level job.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:22:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Merlin:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
.....

The jobs aren't made to sound boring, hell, those descriptions are dressed up so the companies can take them out in public and have a prayer of trapping some poor bastard.

I work at the very leading edge of the industry, and much of what we do is no more than mental ditch digging, accompanied by all sorts of second guessing by the unqualified (let alone the criminally negligent) about the ditch I specify. And now we are buried in all sorts of training for ethics, kick backs, export compliance, you name it - most of which was once adequately covered by common sense and basic everyday courtesy, and I'll bet a $100 any time that there will be another scandal involving a Boeing manager in the next 6 months.




Isn't Training Tracker fun??? Going through it right now. Already had to repeat one frigging class 'cause the stupid POS system couldn't keep up....

Engineer for 25 years now, all at the same company. About half in defense, about half for NASA. I'll never work for NASA again, talk about a bunch of forking management idiots!

Merlin



I tried to get through 2 modules last night that are a total mystery - the ethics training requires the video and audio, and I couldn't figure out to start it anyway, and another one with a choice of text, slides, or video only linked the video. I guess that would be alright if I had a computer of my own and a headset for listening, not the unclassified junkers we share in the hallway.

I lost track of all the courses I repeated because of the lousy tracking, but it has improved over the old system of just taking everything in the list, plus 3 or 4 that aren't, just to make sure you got it all covered.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:30:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By mattja:
...




I know professors and career counselors who swear up and down that bachelor's and master's degreed physicists get hired into engineering disciplines at defense companies like Raytheon and Lockheed.

But, being in the job market now, I (and others I know) also have contact with HR people at Raytheon, Lockheed and others who swear up and down that the first absolute requirement for any engineering position they have open is a four year degree in engineering from an ABET accredited engineering school. Science degrees need not apply...

Jim
...




We have occasionally hired physicists into various non-electrical engineering design jobs, but that is highly dependent on your sex and race. You will likely not do well as a strength analyst with a physics degree, unless you work for someone that lets you run programs without understanding their limitations or the results and never checks your work. You will probably hate the work, too.

On the other hand, the various parts of low signature work is ripe for physicists, and we hire many. One other specialty that gets a few physicists is Operations Analysis, particularly those with RADAR, optical, and orbital mechanics (how many ways can you transform a coordinate system and rewrite the equations of motion?) expertise.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:49:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AeroE:

Originally Posted By Merlin:

Originally Posted By AeroE:
.....

The jobs aren't made to sound boring, hell, those descriptions are dressed up so the companies can take them out in public and have a prayer of trapping some poor bastard.

I work at the very leading edge of the industry, and much of what we do is no more than mental ditch digging, accompanied by all sorts of second guessing by the unqualified (let alone the criminally negligent) about the ditch I specify. And now we are buried in all sorts of training for ethics, kick backs, export compliance, you name it - most of which was once adequately covered by common sense and basic everyday courtesy, and I'll bet a $100 any time that there will be another scandal involving a Boeing manager in the next 6 months.




Isn't Training Tracker fun??? Going through it right now. Already had to repeat one frigging class 'cause the stupid POS system couldn't keep up....

Engineer for 25 years now, all at the same company. About half in defense, about half for NASA. I'll never work for NASA again, talk about a bunch of forking management idiots!

Merlin



I tried to get through 2 modules last night that are a total mystery - the ethics training requires the video and audio, and I couldn't figure out to start it anyway, and another one with a choice of text, slides, or video only linked the video. I guess that would be alright if I had a computer of my own and a headset for listening, not the unclassified junkers we share in the hallway.

I lost track of all the courses I repeated because of the lousy tracking, but it has improved over the old system of just taking everything in the list, plus 3 or 4 that aren't, just to make sure you got it all covered.




I found the Privacy class to be the most confusing of all. That's the one I had to repeat. Directions in different places, in different font with unhighlighted links, ambiguous directions, what crap.

Missiles, submarines, nuclear weapons, there are a lot of defense technologies that are at risk due to declining or ending programs. In two decades or less, if we want to design and produce any of them, we'll virtually have to start over and reinvent the WHOLE wheel.

Merlin
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:48:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Missile brain drain

The Pentagon risks running out of scientists to operate and upgrade the nation’s arsenal of intercontinental nuclear and conventional missiles, according to a report released in March by the Defense Science Board.

As veteran engineers and scientists retire, the military will lose much of its expertise in long-range missile technology, the report says. That means the Air Force and Navy, which operate most of the 1960s-vintage missiles, will be unable to cope with system failures or develop improved weapons, the report says.

Not only are fewer American engineers and scientists choosing to work on missile technology, there are fewer of them altogether, the report says. Each year, about 70,000 Americans receive undergraduate and graduate science and engineering degrees that are defense-related, compared with a combined 200,000 in China and India, the report says.

Lt. Gen. Frank Klotz, acting head of Air Force Space Command, told a Senate committee in March that the Pentagon is trying to improve recruiting and retention.



Sir, speaking only for myself given the advent of NSPS, why would one want to stay in this line of work once retirement eligibility has been achieved? I think Lt. Gen. Klotz and his cronies in the Pentagon don't want anyone to know that NSPS is a huge negative incentive to recruiting and retention. Once they have successfully reduced the level of expertise within the existing technical community, they're free to hire more contractors from Haliburton. JMHO, 7zero1.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:16:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... Yes sir! ... And the consulting fields are ripe for harvest!
Oh yeah. I can see a whole lot of butt kissing and $$$ in the years ahead. I predict American talent working on the kick-butt weaponry for the DoD, but company isn't "tehnically" based in the USA in order to avoid the BS.

Think of all the problems the military-industrial complex has to face nowadays: regular taxes, socialist taxes, quota hiring, timid State Department, clueless Congressmen, whining reporters, save the earth crowd, and on and on... Notice that I didn't put money down as a problem. This country has plenty of war money to go around, but a lot is wasted on items that don't help win wars.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:48:50 PM EDT

Problem is EVERY DoD, Federal and Intel project has turned into a paperwork goatrope with more time and energy spent on MS Project, Powerpoint Slides, Review Boards, Decision by Committees, Engineering Change Boards, admin bullshit, policy, procedure, risk mitigation, security Bullshit, PC bullshit, adherence to federal mandates and anything else that can possibly kill creativity and independent thought. We can't execute and are doomed.
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