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Posted: 11/30/2007 9:12:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2007 11:18:00 AM EDT by FordGuy]
Mattel designed the M-4? Mattel makes parts for M-4? I believe this is BS, (I KNOW Gene Stoner designed the platform) but here's my dillemma...I sat through a class from a US army Master Gunner "SARG" team leader, and he put this out to my class of over 140 soldiers...

So I (MAJ, O-4) pulled this E-7 aside and asked if he was serious, to wich he replied, "of course!!!" I told him Eugene Stoner (hat off, hand over heart) God rest his soul, designed our belevod AR weapon platform. He disagreed. I asked him "OK, made by Mattel .....which part?" he said, "All of it."

So I am inclined to call Colt customer relations fo rmilitary sales and just ask them but I figured I could get some proof here. Thanks all for the help, and If I am wrong, I will tell him.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:14:54 AM EDT
That's a myth--originating with the "plastic" parts of the rifle.

Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:15:00 AM EDT
Please tell me you are kidding? Right?

Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:16:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/30/2007 9:17:32 AM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:17:05 AM EDT
Snopes is your friend.

www.snopes.com/military/m16.asp
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:17:08 AM EDT
I was at a hotel bar in Indianapolis sitting with some vietnam vets there for a reunion.

The topic of weapons came up...they both mentioned the "M-16 made by f%&*in Mattel".

I didn't bother arguing...I was listening to the stories.

I've never read anything anywhere (including Book of the Black Rifle I and II) that mentions a Mattel made AR or M16.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:18:07 AM EDT
Same thing as the saying with XP that Fisher Price helped with the desktop.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:19:45 AM EDT
man i wish I was kidding. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. Here is an E-7 telling soldiers the weapon is made by Mattel - and he also said the Army will replace them with the HK 416 - ( I suspect this is why he is starting this/perpetuating this mattel myth) but I need "snopes" or "ammo-oracle" like proof to make him put out a retraction. any help?
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:20:54 AM EDT
Yeah, and with Mattel outsourcing all the toys to China, our M16's are now Chinese made.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:22:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Yeah, and with Mattel outsourcing all the toys to China, our M16's are now Chinese made.


Now with twice the lead!!
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:24:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Snopes is your friend.

www.snopes.com/military/m16.asp




You should make a copy of the snopes page and leave it on his desk...
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:25:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uxb:

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Yeah, and with Mattel outsourcing all the toys to China, our M16's are now Chinese made.


Now with twice the lead!!


Thank fucking god. Ammo is expensive these days! Twice the ammo = twice the fun for half the price it would usually cost!
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:26:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
man i wish I was kidding. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. Here is an E-7 telling soldiers the weapon is made by Mattel - and he also said the Army will replace them with the HK 416 - ( I suspect this is why he is starting this/perpetuating this mattel myth) but I need "snopes" or "ammo-oracle" like proof to make him put out a retraction. any help?


Scroll up.


Sheesh...freaking officers. Gotta lead them right to it.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:26:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uxb:

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
Yeah, and with Mattel outsourcing all the toys to China, our M16's are now Chinese made.


Now with twice the lead!!


Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:28:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
man i wish I was kidding. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. Here is an E-7 telling soldiers the weapon is made by Mattel - and he also said the Army will replace them with the HK 416 - ( I suspect this is why he is starting this/perpetuating this mattel myth) but I need "snopes" or "ammo-oracle" like proof to make him put out a retraction. any help?


Scroll up.


Sheesh...freaking officers. Gotta lead them right to it.

Roger brother! We are mission complete at this time, return to fire base GD!!! I will present him with the Snopes and get his reaction. Will try to report back here for an update.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:31:35 AM EDT
Some poor bastard pulled up a photo of the photoshopped Mattel M16 and tried to use it as proof that they did make them.

Honestly he had no idea it was photoshopped, but damn did they dog him about it.

I am sure someone here still has that photo saved.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 9:33:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
man i wish I was kidding. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. Here is an E-7 telling soldiers the weapon is made by Mattel - and he also said the Army will replace them with the HK 416 - ( I suspect this is why he is starting this/perpetuating this mattel myth) but I need "snopes" or "ammo-oracle" like proof to make him put out a retraction. any help?


Scroll up.

Sheesh...freaking officers. Gotta lead them right to it.

Roger brother! We are mission complete at this time, return to fire base GD!!! I will present him with the Snopes and get his reaction. Will try to report back here for an update.

Just don't show him the photoshop of the mattel rollmark m16

Obviously he's putting too much faith in the whispering seal with the 416 comment.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 10:01:51 AM EDT
Good Grief, Grown men in the Army arguing about something that was fox hole fodder 30 years a go.....all I can say is,,,,,,ARMY ARMY DON'T BE BLUE THE U.S. NAVY'S FUCKED UP TOO..........
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 10:03:48 AM EDT
My uncle calls mine "Matty Mattels". He thought that they were made by Mattel also. Vietnam-era Marine.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 10:06:23 AM EDT
This makes me want to plan another "concept rifle", one made with genuine Mattel markings all around including the mattel logo molded into every plastic part.





CJ
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 11:16:34 AM EDT
But it's true! They really did!






Link Posted: 11/30/2007 11:22:09 AM EDT
I always wanted an AR with a Mattel logo engraved on it for shits and giggles.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:02:43 PM EDT
welp, sent him to snopes (he says he went there) and he still won't retract his statements to the troops. So do I get all blustery over this and raise hell or not?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:11:50 PM EDT
Doesn't an M4 say "COLT" right on the side?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:14:19 PM EDT
AGNTSA
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:16:40 PM EDT
You're an O-4 and you couldn't correct the problem without resorting to arfcom? Really? You didn't make him show you the instructor notes that said the M-4 was made by Mattel? You didn't ask him for his sources? You didn't talk to the officer in charge of the school and discuss the bad gouge this E-7 was putting out?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:17:52 PM EDT
And Hasbro makes the wing pylons for the AH-64, Parker Brothers writes all the field manuals for the army and Milton-Bradley is the primary contractor for replacement headlights for Humvees...

Next thing somebody's gonna say that Singer built machineguns and .45's. and G.E. made bazookas.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:18:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 4:19:56 PM EDT by bytor94]

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
welp, sent him to snopes (he says he went there) and he still won't retract his statements to the troops. So do I get all blustery over this and raise hell or not?


Sir, you should know the answer to that yourself, without this old worn out retired NCO havin' to tell you.

Yes, hook his ass up. If he's telling Soldiers this untruth, especially after you showed him snopes, what other BS is he feeding them in class?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:19:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:28:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
welp, sent him to snopes (he says he went there) and he still won't retract his statements to the troops. So do I get all blustery over this and raise hell or not?


Don't raise hell, just give him a direct order to stop spreading dis-information or you will replace him. What other bullshit is he spreading ? It sounds to me like he is trying to demoralize the troops and make them think their rifle is inadequate.


Link Posted: 12/2/2007 5:04:31 PM EDT
I see that your from SC. You might want to point out the the M16A2 is currently being manufactured by FN in Columbia SC.


Vulcan94



Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:07:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bytor94:

Originally Posted By FordGuy:
welp, sent him to snopes (he says he went there) and he still won't retract his statements to the troops. So do I get all blustery over this and raise hell or not?


Sir, you should know the answer to that yourself, without this old worn out retired NCO havin' to tell you.

Yes, hook his ass up. If he's telling Soldiers this untruth, especially after you showed him snopes, what other BS is he feeding them in class?




Yup, any instructor who continues to pass incorrect information to his students once presented with the facts should not be instructing students. This should be brought to the attention of the school director immediately.

CM1 (SCW) Seabee_Mech
NEC 5805/9502 (Advanced Construction Mechanic/ Instructor)
Range RSO/Coach

Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:24:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
....

Next thing somebody's gonna say that Singer built machineguns and .45's. and G.E. made bazookas.


Somehow, at this point, I doubt that I could convince you guys to believe me if told you I had a semiauto .30 caliber carbine made by IBM, much less a .45 pistol made by a typewriter company...

I do!
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:25:22 PM EDT
Tag for AAR.

And BTW I think its your JOB to get all "blustery" about it. You can't have senior NCOs spreading bullshit. Its your job to stop it before it spreads. Young Solders and Marines look up to these guys like they are Gods. You can't have them spreading crap.

Then again this is coming from a Navy guy so take everything I say with a grain of salt (pun intended).

Do the right thing.


-LTC-
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:28:49 PM EDT
1) Bet him paychecks
2) produce proof
3) cash his paycheck and buy a new AR
4) Report him to his CO for spreading BS in a .mil classroom
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:34:04 PM EDT
FordGuy,

I was just a lowely E-4 but your tried the honey.. he didn;t want it time for vinagar


Not that the disinfo he is spewing is effecting the abilities of our forces, however if he is adamant about spewing bullshit about that what else might he be 'teaching'
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:35:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
....

Next thing somebody's gonna say that Singer built machineguns and .45's. and G.E. made bazookas.


Somehow, at this point, I doubt that I could convince you guys to believe me if told you I had a semiauto .30 caliber carbine made by IBM, much less a .45 pistol made by a typewriter company...

I do!


I had an M16 made by General Motors, but none by Mattel
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:35:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
....

Next thing somebody's gonna say that Singer built machineguns and .45's. and G.E. made bazookas.


Somehow, at this point, I doubt that I could convince you guys to believe me if told you I had a semiauto .30 caliber carbine made by IBM, much less a .45 pistol made by a typewriter company...

I do!


I had a .30/.06 made by a tractor manufacturer
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:49:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Currahee:

I had an M16 made by General Motors, but none by Mattel


What's next ?? Are you going to tell me that the factory that makes TH350 & TH400 transmissions made M-16s too?

T­here was a demil'd Hydramatic Corp. M-16 hanging in a rack display at the MCRD PI museum, circa 1989

Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:52:45 PM EDT
Jeez, what's next? You gonna try convincing people that a jukebox company made .30 caliber carbines or a refrigerator company made Mosin Nagants?

Some people...
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:56:40 PM EDT
the ones from china had to much lead paint so we had to send them back.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 8:59:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:
the ones from china had too much lead so we had to send them back.


Is that the reason there isn't any chinese made ammo for sale at Wally World?
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:02:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
I was at a hotel bar in Indianapolis sitting with some vietnam vets there for a reunion.

The topic of weapons came up...they both mentioned the "M-16 made by f%&*in Mattel".

I didn't bother arguing...I was listening to the stories.

I've never read anything anywhere (including Book of the Black Rifle I and II) that mentions a Mattel made AR or M16.


Similar experience; I worked with a few Vietnam Vets in the mid 80's and one of them said he actually saw the Mattel jet fly in. I think this is an urban legand as these guys did not like the M16 as it required frequent cleaning to work.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:04:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
....

Next thing somebody's gonna say that Singer built machineguns and .45's. and G.E. made bazookas.


Somehow, at this point, I doubt that I could convince you guys to believe me if told you I had a semiauto .30 caliber carbine made by IBM, much less a .45 pistol made by a typewriter company...

I do!


...Remington Rand Typewriter Company
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:12:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 9:14:17 PM EDT by flatfender]
Oh sure. Next you'll tell me that there's a "New" Mexico.

Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:14:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Currahee:

Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By MonkTx:
....

Next thing somebody's gonna say that Singer built machineguns and .45's. and G.E. made bazookas.


Somehow, at this point, I doubt that I could convince you guys to believe me if told you I had a semiauto .30 caliber carbine made by IBM, much less a .45 pistol made by a typewriter company...

I do!


I had an M16 made by General Motors, but none by Mattel
Mine was made by Singer.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:18:17 PM EDT
I have heard that many times from people fresh out of boot camp or AIT. It is a common rumor taught to them.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 9:25:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
I have heard that many times from people fresh out of boot camp or AIT. It is a common rumor taught to them.


At least they don't think the Bradleys are made by hotwheels or matchbox.
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 10:00:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

Originally Posted By Windustsearch:
I have heard that many times from people fresh out of boot camp or AIT. It is a common rumor taught to them.


At least they don't think the Bradleys are made by hotwheels or matchbox.


I thought it was a Milton Bradley!
Link Posted: 12/5/2007 11:16:48 AM EDT
AAR time. OK, so he basicaly wouldn't come off his statements. He says this is what they are taught at Crew Served Master Gunner school. OK, I said that is his choice.

Next move, I got to the classroom tent early and hooked a laptop up to the projector and went to snopes. I threw it up on the BIG wall for everyone to see. I had a captive audience. (and outranked everyone in the room )

When the group was seated i introduced myself as a fellow student who normally keeps his mouth shut, but I had heard something I could not allow to be put out as truthful information, explained that while I was NOT a master gunner, the prior info was wrong, and I proceeded to take next 5 minutes to go paragraph by paragraph through the snopes website. I then explained that Eugene Stoner was the designer of the weapon platform. I encouraged them to google Gene Stoner's information. I told them their soldiers should be confident in the weapon platform, and any attempt to degrade the AR was inappropriate and a sign of poor leadership. I didn't get preachy, just made a quick statement and I was done.

Talk about some pissed off soldiers....

We wouldn't see him for another couple of days but there was no other time when he addressed the group. He saw us in groups of 5-7 and then his staff had 2/3 of the students while he had the remaining 1/3.

He pulled me aside once again, and told me that is what he had been taught at Crew Served master gunner school. He said he would get in touch with the school and make sure they got the snopes information. I smelled bullshit right then and there, as I have a nose for it...

Bottom line, the rest o fthe class were absolutely livid. My classmates are CSMs, CPTs, 1LTs and other senior NCOs. they don't take kindly to being given mis-information, dis-information, or bullshit. scuse my language.

Blustery? no. I gave him the option to correct the information. That was the professional thing to do. When he did not, I did it for him. In the end, I took care of my troops while not losing my cool.

Part of this OC/T course is a course critique. I hear the CSM of the course reads every single one. I have encouraged all my fellow classmates to write a note or two about their dis-satisfaction with this complete and utter lie, since he never did address the group and do a 'mea culpa.'

So, problem solved, correct information is out and with the AAR comments hopefully he won't say such rubbish to the next class.

Thanks to folks here who steered my toward snopes!!!

Link Posted: 12/5/2007 11:35:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2007 11:35:29 AM EDT by SJSAMPLE]

Originally Posted By GunnyG:

Originally Posted By Currahee:

I had an M16 made by General Motors, but none by Mattel


What's next ?? Are you going to tell me that the factory that makes TH350 & TH400 transmissions made M-16s too?


There was a demil'd Hydramatic Corp. M-16 hanging in a rack display at the MCRD PI museum, circa 1989




My first issue M-16 wqas a Hydramatic.
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