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Posted: 9/14/2005 3:53:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 5:36:52 AM EDT by Hellhound]
UPDATE ABOUT THE INSTRUCTOR BELOW 1ST STORY..........

Here is the latest, from this evening, Wednesday, Sept. 14th.....

Have to register to see story.

www.ajc.com/search/content/auto/epaper/editions/today/metro_3492c147e47c22ed0063.html

Police trainer broke safety rules
Officials: Loaded gun was mistake


By DON PLUMMER, CHANDLER BROWN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/15/05

A veteran firearms instructor violated two key safety rules when he brought a loaded gun into a Cobb County police academy, where he accidentally shot and killed a recruit Tuesday during demonstration on how to draw a pistol, officials said Wednesday.

Tara Drummond, a 23-year-old who hoped someday to become a detective, died Tuesday afternoon shortly after being hit in the chest by a single round, said Cobb Sheriff Neil Warren, who is leading an investigation of the shooting.
BRANT SANDERLIN / Staff

All ammunition is banned from the building, said Warren, who declined to release the instructor's name or any initial findings as to why he had the pistol. Warren provided no further details of how or why the gun fired.

Further, a state policy bans any working firearm — loaded or not — from academy classrooms, said Bob Sanderson, assistant director of the Georgia Public Safety Training Center in Forsyth. The state oversees the center in Austell and nine other regional police academies.

"In the classroom, they use what is called a red gun, models that are made of red, hard plastic that are replicas of actual handguns," he said.

The accident brought sympathy from many quarters, including a fellow training officer in Texas.

"The accident that took the life of Ms. Drummond is the worst fear any firearms instructor ever faces," said Sgt. Brandy Wise of the San Antonio Park police.

"Not only were her dreams and life cut short, but the lives of her family as well as her instructor will never be the same."

Drummond, a rookie at the Kennesaw Police Department, was in her seventh week of the 10-week training course.

She is the first Kennesaw officer to be killed on duty, spokesman Scott Luther said. Drummond began working for the 60-officer Kennesaw Police Department June 1 and started training Aug. 1. The shooting occurred during the first day of firearms instruction for 30 students, Warren said.

The instructor will remain on paid leave until an investigation by the sheriff, county police and Austell police is finished, Warren said.

The instructor was treated briefly following the shooting for unspecified medical symptoms and continued Wednesday to be under the care of a doctor, Warren said. The 25-year Cobb deputy sheriff has been assigned to the academy as an instructor for 10 years, Warren said.

The Austell academy is operated by Cobb County under a contract with the Georgia Public Safety Training Center, Sanderson said. The academy works with officers from Cobb, Paulding, Douglas, Cherokee, Pickens, Gilmer, Fannin and Carroll counties and for the cities of Alpharetta, Roswell and Villa Rica, Warren said.

The academy provides police candidates with the minimum 10 weeks of basic training required under Georgia law. Another 20 hours of training is required annually to maintain certification as a peace officer. Drummond lived with her parents in a two-story cottage in a modest neighborhood near Paulding County High School outside Dallas.

Family and friends embraced one another on the front porch Wednesday afternoon. A Kennesaw police officer posted in the front yard said the family was not talking to reporters. Through police, the family said funeral arrangements were incomplete.

At the Kennesaw police headquarters, about 25 miles northeast of the family's home, flags were lowered to half-staff in the officer's honor. "We are all just beside ourselves," Officer Scott Luther said.

Drummond was a "very professional, upbeat" recruit who longed to become a detective, Luther said.

"She had that goal and she was seeing to it that she met it," Luther said.

While waiting for the training class to start in early August, Drummond trained in the dispatch center and worked with the department's three detectives and their supervisor, Luther said.

"She wanted to see all aspects of the job," he said. "Everybody respected her. She's greatly missed."


UPDATE CONCERNING THE INSTRUCTOR........


You have to register to see the story.

www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/cobb/0905/16policerecruit.html


Cobb deputy identified in police recruit's death

By BRENDEN SAGER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/16/05

The police academy instructor who shot and killed a Kennesaw recruit during a classroom exercise was identified Thursday as Cobb County Deputy Sheriff Sgt. Albert Jackson.

Jackson, 49, was placed on paid administrative leave after the Tuesday shooting death of 23-year-old Tara Drummond. She is the first Kennesaw officer to die in the line of duty.

Kennesaw police officers and city employees observed a moment of silence Thursday for slain recruit Tara Drummond.

Cobb police are investigating Drummond's death. Meanwhile, the sheriff's department, which runs the facility, is determining whether administrative procedures were followed. Jackson has not been charged.

"Sgt. Jackson was extremely disturbed by this incident and continues to receive medical care," Cobb Sheriff Neil Warren said in a statement Thursday.

Jackson was first certified by the Peace Officer Standards and Training Council as a firearms training instructor in 1997 and recertified in April.

Declining for the second day to detail the circumstances of the shooting, Warren would not say whether Jackson was directing the first day of firearms instruction, or only participating in the instruction. Further, Warren did not know how many firearms training classes Jackson has taught in his 10 years at the training center.

Warren said Jackson was the class coordinator for the 30-member class that draws recruits from Cobb, Paulding, Douglas, Cherokee, Pickens, Gilmer, Fannin and Carroll counties and for the cities of Alpharetta, Roswell and Villa Rica. Jackson's duties included setting up classes, answering recruit questions and serving as a mentor during training.

He also is certified to teach emergency vehicle operations and other armed training.

Jackson has been an instructor at the North Central Georgia Law Enforcement Academy for 10 years. Though recruits are drawn from Cobb County, the facility is separate from the Cobb Department of Public Safety Police Academy.

Within the Cobb sheriff's department, Jackson was assigned to field services, criminal investigations, court security and detention.

Jackson received a promotion to sergeant in 1997 and was assigned to the administrative services division two years later.

More than two dozen city and police employees gathered in front of City Hall on Thursday to commemorate Drummond with a moment of silence, said Kennesaw City Manager Steve Kennedy.

"It was an opportunity to show respect," he said.

Drummond's funeral services will beat Jeff Eberhart Funeral Home, 124 Watson Drive, Dallas. Visitation is 9 a.m.-9 p.m. today. Funeral services will be at 1 p.m. Saturday at Mount Paran North Church of God, 1700 Allgood Road, Marietta.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:58:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 3:58:46 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:01:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:01:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
I'd be interested to hear the details of the shooting.

Very sad for her family, I hope at the very least that her recruit class learns an incredibly valuable lesson from this.



I will scour the news today and tomorrow and see what I can find out. The AJC (Al Jazeera Clan) just plain ole sux concerning details.

I know we have some local LE guys on the board too, I am sure they will chime in as well.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:06:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 4:10:21 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:06:45 AM EDT
I work in Kennesaw, so I will put my ear to the ground.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:08:36 AM EDT
What a dumb ass.
the only way this happens is if you point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger.
he should be charged with negligent homicide.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:14:17 AM EDT
I wonder if the gun might have been pointed down, but the bullet or a large fragment ricocheted off the floor?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:17:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 4:17:28 AM EDT by mayday]
Why do I have a picture of that DEA agent telling the school children that he's the only one prefessional enough to have a Glock fo-ty. ..right before it goes of.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:23:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:24:07 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:26:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:29:43 AM EDT
What a shame.

As alot of you are, I'm always AMAZED when "Accidents" like this happen. Someone (The instructor?) got sloppy and a fine young person died



Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:44:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
What a dumb ass.
the only way this happens is if you point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger.
he should be charged with negligent homicide.



Yes because in training military and LEO personnel certainly have no reason to point guns at each other, right? It's not like realistic training for violent life and death encounters needs to be conducted, is it?

We "shoot" at each other, with Simunition FX marking cartridges, regularly. Some places use conversion kits to go from live weapons to training weapons...................

I hope it isn't one of those "I pulled the trigger to disassemble my Glock.........." situations.

Or one of those situations that real firearms could have been replaced by red or blue guns.............
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:44:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 4:46:06 AM EDT by TheCommissioner]

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
This is terrible news. I am thinking of the trainee's family today, very sad.

Kennesaw police trainee dies after accidental shooting

By DON PLUMMER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/13/05

A trainee at a Cobb County police academy was killed Tuesday when the instructor's gun accidentally negligently went off during the first day of firearms training, authorities said.



Fixed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:46:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:47:36 AM EDT
familiarity breed contempt. Or atleast sloppy handling. We have had over 4 ND's in a local dept over the last 5 years. 2 guys lost or almost lost fingers. It can happen to anyone. Not just PD. Be aware and always remember what your firearm is cabable of.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:49:59 AM EDT
Hey guys, lets wait until we get the FULL details until we start judging. We all know what assuming does to you and me. The instructor is the one who has to live with this anyway, which I'm sure is punishment enough.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:54:47 AM EDT
There is NO excuse for this. NONE.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:00:31 AM EDT
Before I jump to conclusions, I would like to know first off whether the basement was a classroom or had a range.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:35:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:36:17 AM EDT by warlord]
That is very sad.

We had an officer from our local PD come to talk to us about firearms, and he brought a seperate locked case full of unloaded guns. He demo'ed all of the guns he brought to us, but never once did he unholster his duty gun. This is a good idea beause doing a presentation in front of a group always has some pressure and something could easily be forgotten, maybe like to unloading or reloading his duty gun etc. Personally to me this is an extremely good idea.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:45:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:

Having seen it myself, rookies make mistakes regardless of what the veteran instructor does.

Believe it or not I find cops with time on the job MORE dangerous because they think they know what the hell they're doing.



I can't speak for LE, but I see this on jobsites and shops all the time.
Familiarity = Complacency. It shouldn't happen, but it does. And bad things usually follow.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:16:40 AM EDT
I'm a Hunter Education instructor. We NEVER bring guns and ammo into a class room EVER!!!!. Oh we also watch the kids to make sure they don't slip a round they brought from home into anything.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:22:19 AM EDT
The "instructor" Fucked up bad.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:33:23 AM EDT
Tag for the story if it shows up. We use red/blue guns exclusively for training.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:38:06 AM EDT
FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER!

Even if it was pointed at someone or richocette your finger should be off the trigger unless you have sight picture and are ready to fire.

The four rules are all there so if you mess one up the other three will keep something from happeneing.

The only way this happened was if two or more rules were being broken not just one.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:43:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Originally Posted By Wave:

Having seen it myself, rookies make mistakes regardless of what the veteran instructor does.

Believe it or not I find cops with time on the job MORE dangerous because they think they know what the hell they're doing.



I can't speak for LE, but I see this on jobsites and shops all the time.
Familiarity = Complacency. It shouldn't happen, but it does. And bad things usually follow.




Right on
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:57:32 AM EDT
update, 1st post, page 1
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:05:25 PM EDT
No excuse for what happened.

Dollars to donuts it was a Glock.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:23:10 PM EDT
BTT for the latest update, page 1, first post....Live and Learn People.....
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:27:57 PM EDT


Terrible story.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:29:37 PM EDT
That is so sad.
I feel for both the girl's family and the instructor. It just can't get much worse than that.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:32:44 PM EDT


very sad I feel bad for ALL involved.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:33:05 PM EDT
Very sad..............I graduated from that academy back in the mid 90's.........my heart goes out to the family of the officer and the instructor..........
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:34:57 PM EDT
I bet the guy thought he knew better.


All ammunition is banned from the building, said Warren, who declined to release the instructor's name or any initial findings as to why he had the pistol. Warren provided no further details of how or why the gun fired.

Further, a state policy bans any working firearm — loaded or not — from academy classrooms, said Bob Sanderson, assistant director of the Georgia Public Safety Training Center in Forsyth.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:41:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:43:40 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
Edit: It was updated, nevermind.


Familiarity breeds contempt. Never let your guard down. Bill Jordan was one of the nations top pistoleros up to the day he was dry firing and accidentally discharged a round through a wall, killing another border patrolman.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:44:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
I bet the guy thought he knew better.


All ammunition is banned from the building, said Warren, who declined to release the instructor's name or any initial findings as to why he had the pistol. Warren provided no further details of how or why the gun fired.

Further, a state policy bans any working firearm — loaded or not — from academy classrooms, said Bob Sanderson, assistant director of the Georgia Public Safety Training Center in Forsyth.




Big Phat Civil suite in his future...
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:44:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:45:26 PM EDT by 7point62_AssAssin]
One of my hunter safety instructors is holding a rifle a rifle infront of our class and he asks us: "Is it loaded?" We all said "no, of course not."
His reply was "Yes it is loaded".....pause, we all were a bit shocked for a second. "Every firearm is loaded until you see for yourself that it isn't."

Good lesson to have learned. Assumptions about firearms can be deadly.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:57:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
No excuse for what happened.

Dollars to donuts it was a Glock.



Respectfully WTF does your apparent personal prejudice against Glock have to do with this? No ND's from other types of handgun? No ND's ever from cocked and locked 1911's?

The pistol doesn't matter, it's the behavior.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:04:49 PM EDT
very sad
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:12:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Or one of those situations that real firearms could have been replaced by red or blue guns.............

Particularly if it was a Glock, since the red and blue Glocks can do everything except fire a live round.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:15:43 PM EDT
Something similar happened in Prattville Alabama recently. It appears to be a regular epidemic.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 8:21:03 PM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By hk940:
What a dumb ass.
the only way this happens is if you point a loaded gun at someone and pull the trigger.
he should be charged with negligent homicide.



Yes because in training military and LEO personnel certainly have no reason to point guns at each other, right? It's not like realistic training for violent life and death encounters needs to be conducted, is it?

We "shoot" at each other, with Simunition FX marking cartridges, regularly. Some places use conversion kits to go from live weapons to training weapons...................

I hope it isn't one of those "I pulled the trigger to disassemble my Glock.........." situations.

Or one of those situations that real firearms could have been replaced by red or blue guns.............






Further, a state policy bans any working firearm — loaded or not — from academy classrooms, said Bob Sanderson, assistant director of the Georgia Public Safety Training Center in Forsyth. The state oversees the center in Austell and nine other regional police academies.

"In the classroom, they use what is called a red gun, models that are made of red, hard plastic that are replicas of actual handguns," he said.



It sure sounds to me, from reading the article, that no... he was not supposed to have a real firearm and live ammo in the classroom. He was not conduccting valid training nor following the safety procedures of the class, nor heading the simple whispers of common sense. How in god's name do you not check (and then triple check) the condition of your weapon prior to pulling the trigger?

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:29:28 PM EDT
Sad all the way around!

I haven’t a clue what happened here, but I have run into LEO’s (and non-LEO’s as well) who feel the rules don’t apply to them.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 8:55:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 9:36:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 4:03:33 PM EDT by panzersergeant]

Originally Posted By Thekatar:

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
No excuse for what happened.

Dollars to donuts it was a Glock.



Respectfully WTF does your apparent personal prejudice against Glock have to do with this? No ND's from other types of handgun? No ND's ever from cocked and locked 1911's?

The pistol doesn't matter, it's the behavior.



This is not the thread to exchange barbs over Glocks; that argument has been done to death and is still on-going. But, since you asked...

I understand the "any gun" argument. My "opinion" about Glocks is just that; an opinion. If you like them, more power to you. I have handled and shot all types of handguns over the years. I have shot my share of Glocks. I don't like Glocks because I feel the trigger is overly-sensitive. And please don't give me that shit about "keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to kill someone" bullshit; the fact of the matter is, when handling any pistol, your finger will naturally gravitate to that spot. So if you are, let's say, talking to someone while you're handling a handgun with a sensitive trigger, then bad things can happen.

Lots of police agencies use them because they are cheap and dependable. A lot of guns are dependable, but not all are as cheap as a Glock.

YMMV, but give me a Sig everytime.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:30:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
I don't like Glocks because I feel the trigger is overly-sensitive. And please don't give me that shit about "keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to kill someone" bullshit; the fact of the matter is, when handling any pistol, your finger will naturally gravitate to that spot. So if you are, let's say, talking to someone while you're handling a handgun with a sensitive trigger, then bad things can happen.




#5 DA pull is overly sensitive?
Not trying to be rude, but if your finger naturally migrates onto the trigger, you need more training! Hate to say it! It feels unnatural for me to put my finger on the trigger, even at the range. I have to make a conscious effort to put it there, otherwise it naturally moves away. It is ingrained in my head to never go near the trigger, unless TSHTF. Otherwise its a slow deliberate process.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:44:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 12:00:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:28:52 AM EDT
Was the instructor that dread-locked black dude from the DEA??
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 4:41:03 AM EDT
BTT, INFO ABOUT INSTRUCTOR IN 1ST POST, 2ND STORY.....
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