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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 8/6/2002 5:32:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 4:58:01 AM EST by satcong]
********************* Update: Vet came by yesterday, said that Teddy has either an injury (sprain) or truly has bad hips (says teddy's hips dont look that darn good however it could be the way he is growing also since he is only 7 months old. He manipulated the dogs joints for a few minutes, took his temp (102) -- wasn't too worried about the temp because of the heat in AZ. etc...Said it might even be valley fever although our other dog Shilo shows no signs. He said sometiimes valley fever affects the long bones. So he gave me a months worth of [b]Rimadyl[/b]and wants me to keep him in the kennel for a month, no roughhousing or running in yard/no walks to the golf course/park no playing with shilo whatsoever.... We're not sure what to do, the Rimadyl causes stomach upset and the kennel down time for one month will drive him nuts. He's big for seven months old, and the kennel is the [u]largest[/u] the store sells but he will tear that thing up and spill his water and there is no one home till 300pm in the afternoon. We are going to talk about it tonight and decide what to do about the meds and the kennel rest. ********************************** My 2nd aussie pup is now approaching 8 months. Lately wife and I noticed he is occasionally bunny hopping and limping a bit (NOT ALWAYS) avoids jumping (unless he is jumping on us) no apparent injuries, so I did a little research on hip displasia...woo--very very expensive. I don't think we can afford an operation and I was wondering if this is something that puppies might grow out of? Xrays are expensive, and they are scheduled for next week appointment with the vet. We heard there is medication, but I think it would be just for the pain, not to treat the hip displasia...am I right? Help!
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 5:40:39 AM EST
Bad news, I am sorry if it turns out to be hip dysplagia. Our Rotty female was diagnosed at around 1 year old, and we had to start her on Glucosamine and we had her fixed as this is a genetic trait. Molly is 3 now and she is doing great as long as we keep her weight down.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 5:44:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 5:45:42 AM EST
SATCONG Man sorry to hear that not much you can do if you cannot afford the operation other than put the dog down it is the most humane thing to do.To many years of puppy mills inbreeding their dogs have caused this problem.A friend had a great dane with this problem cost him 7000 to have the hips rebuilt.You have a tough decision to make in the near future good luck
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 5:47:16 AM EST
My old shepherd is having probs to... Glucosamine, Chondroiton, MSM is recommended..you might try [url]http://www.1888petmeds.com/[/url] Beware of the toxicity of too many vitamins . I have been given my dog Tahitian Noni Juice supplement..for a while it seemed to help.. Mild consistent excercise is important with regular swimming as this is low impact..keep the running stair cimbing and standing on hind legs to a minimum.. Its my understanding that this is really tough to diagnose in the early stages on xrays..MRI or CAT scan may help..but runs into serious money.. They can do some pretty good things with surgery..but again an expensive procedure.. Start out with the least invasive treatment...diet , supplements, excercise.. If your dog is in pain...try ice on the area for thirty minutes at a time..take to vet for xrays. Hope this helps
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 5:47:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 5:54:10 AM EST by satcong]
Yeah I read where they say to keep their weight down and excersize down...Teddy is a HUGE dog, for an aussie...the largest of his litter...[i]I was thinking this has more to do with him growing rapidly[/i] is this [b]something to hope for[/b]...and maybe he will grow out of it...he only limps once in awhile, but it is noticable...for example yesterday we took both dawgs to the golf course to play ball....Teddy never limped, never bunny hopped. Ran around like normal dawg. But day before yesterday he did. It seems to be intermittant. help.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 6:52:48 AM EST
Surgery is the only fix to the problem. If it has gotten to the point of him hopping around then it needs to be done soon. Hope everything turn out ok for him.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 6:58:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 7:53:53 AM EST by satcong]
OK I talked with a vet who does HOUSE CALLS! (24 dollars!!!!) and he charges 1/3 the price because we live in Maricopa! So, he said...."usually dont do any surgery for two years" --so that gives me some time to come up with 2 grand...so he is coming out to the house on wensday to check Teddy out. Wish me luck.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 7:56:58 AM EST
A year ago, a dog we adopted (6 year old black lab mix) was diagnosed with HD after we noticed him limping. The vet went in to operate but saw that the degeneration was so severe, he could not do much more than cut a few tendons to improve the situation a little. After only one week the dog was so much better that the vet was surprized. The vet has me give "Blackie" a pill called "Rymadyl" twice a day. Rymadyl is an anti-inflamatory (and may be a pain reliever also). It is the same pill my vet prescribed to my 13 year old Golden Retriever for her arthritis. A year later and Blackie is still doing great. He only limps every once in a while. The vet charged me about $200 for the operation. (Not the more intense operation that Blackie was not able to have because of the amount of degeneration). Not a cure but maybe more time. I wish you well.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:05:39 AM EST
Glad to hear that a Vet actually does house calls. Let us know how it comes out. I would like to know. Hoping for the best for you and your dog.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:18:59 AM EST
Give him a baby aspirin a day ....I think the vets are correct when they say that its better to keep a pup on the lean side during the first year growing spurt...I fed my shep the best chow I could find...excercised her regularly and she still has problems at age 8...I probably fed her too much during her puppy growing stage.. If you can find a swimming hole and get the dog a half hour of swimming three times a week...I think that may help...and like you say he may very well grow out of it...as for pain my dog still doesnt show any pain regularly just range of motion problems & stair climbing is difficult...I have a 3/4 dodge tk and she can no longer jump from the ground to the back seat without crying afterwards..so I put the big tool box on the ground and she jumps up on that first hen into the back seat...doesnt seem to strain her as much ..no cries afterward..
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:30:44 AM EST
What is it with hip displasia, anyway? In the '60's I didn't hear much about it. Then I heard about it regarding German Shepards. Now it seems like it's a risk with all the dogs, especially the popular breeds, especially dogs. Inbreeding? Darwin? What gives?
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:42:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By feb: SATCONG To many years of puppy mills inbreeding their dogs have caused this problem.
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PRK this is the reason that Hip Displasia occurs.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:47:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 12:05:07 PM EST by Stache7]
I am not a vet, but I have had very good success with my Golden Retriever, who is now 8 1/2, but started having a hip problem when he was 2. First, please let me comment on a couple of things.... 1. Chances are that your pup will not grow out of this, if it is dysplasia. It is possible at his age that he's still having some growing pains. You need to talk to your vet. 2. You can get a [b]Penn-Hip[/b] evaluation done now to determine if his hips are going to be a problem. Normally, OFA x-rays aren't done until age 2, but the Penn-Hip procedure is gaining popularity and is statistically showing great success at predicting the hip's condition. It is a bit more expensive, but when you consider the alternatives it is worth it..IMHO. 3. Rimadyl is [b]NOT[/b] a good long term answer. It is an effective pain reliever, but it can cause kidney problems if over used. We used it for my other Golden when she was suffering from cancer and it did help. HOWEVER, there are two other things to keep in mind. First, it can cause intestinal upset and your dog might not want to eat. Second, do NOT mix it with Pepto Bismol, which we did at first because we thought it would help her upset tummy. I later found out, via a second vet, that the combination of Rimadyl and Pepto can exagerate the intestinal upset. Now, depending on the severity of your dog's dysplasia, surgery is not necessarily your only option. My dog has had great success with [b]ADEQUAN[/b]. It is commonly used for horses, but my vet gave him a series of 4 shots (1 per week - $35/shot) when symptoms first showed up at age 2 1/2 (bunny hopping, etc.). Within 3 weeks his hopping disappeared for 3 years. When the symptoms reappeared at age 5 1/2, we gave him 3 more shots. This lasted until this past Spring when the symptoms reappeared as I expected them to (i.e., 3 years). He got another series of 4 shots and thus far it looks like he's going to be good for hunting season again. My dog has had Glucosamine in his diet for years, and while it may help, it doesn't prevent or cure dysplasia. I just discussed this with another vet and he has had greater success with a different product. Several hunters/retriever trainers around the country whom I know from another forum also highly recommend this product based on their success with it. This new supplement that I just started my dog on yesterday is called [b]Glyco-Flex 600[/b]. It is made by Vetri-Science and they have other products for various conditions, including one that is apparently specifically for joints. I DO NOT gain any personal benefit from mentioning their name. I am only passing on this information since I have been studying it for my dog. In summary, I suggest the following actions: 1. Have your vet check your pup, and get a Penn-Hip evaluation done if there is any question about the condition. If your vet isn't cooperative, or blows you off, find a new vet. 2. If dysplasia is diagnosed, and it isn't an extreme case that warrants drastic measures, ask your vet, or find a vet who cares for large animals (horses, etc), and ask about using Adequan. I have talked to several vets who use it for dogs and have success with it. It is not a permanent answer, but may help avoid surgery while your dog enjoys a fairly natural and happy life. 3. Investigate using a supplement such as this Glyco-Flex 600, or one of the others for joint problems. It is normally sold through vets, but I just saw them for sale in the Foster & Smith catalogue. I hope this information helps. I'm certainly not an expert, and you use this information at your own risk, but my wife and I have followed the above course of action after years of dealing with the same problems. Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:48:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 11:50:02 AM EST by prk]
acftgrunt - Thanks for the info -- sorry I missed it first time around. So if you stick to AKC documented dogs, are your chances vastly reduced? I guess you'd still want a guarantee on the hips - I heard that you can't get the hips certified until they are 2 years old. What's that called - OFA or something like that?
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:53:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By satcong: OK I talked with a vet who does HOUSE CALLS! (24 dollars!!!!) and he charges 1/3 the price because we live in Maricopa! So, he said...."usually dont do any surgery for two years" --so that gives me some time to come up with 2 grand...so he is coming out to the house on wensday to check Teddy out. Wish me luck.
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Good luck Satcong, and please let us know how it turns out. I'm with The_Beer_Slayer on chipping in.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 11:58:46 AM EST
Don't write the dog off with dysplasia. I have a 7 year old Lab. She developed a bad limp. I feared she had dysplasia as well. X-rays turned up mild(normal for her size and age) dysplasia but her limp persisted. Second examination and x-rays confirmed a knee injury. She had surgery to repair a blown ligament and remove some build up. Cost was under $350.00. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:01:59 PM EST
Stache7 and others. Thank you very much. I will investigate ADEQUAN and ask the vet for a Penn hip evaluation when he comes out to the house on wensday. This info is more than I could have hoped for. At least now I feel like I'm not going into the battle without a rifle..thanks again.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:15:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By prk: acftgrunt - Thanks for the info -- sorry I missed it first time around. So if you stick to AKC documented dogs, are your chances vastly reduced? I guess you'd still want a guarantee on the hips - I heard that you can't get the hips certified until they are 2 years old. What's that called - OFA or something like that?
View Quote
PRK, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance. Depends on the bloodline. I have 2 Small dogs from the same parents our female has, it our male doesn't. There is a certification for hips I don't know all the info on that. I hate to see pets in pain so I had done some research on it when I found out all the problems with my Female.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:18:31 PM EST
prk, you asked: "So if you stick to AKC documented dogs, are your chances vastly reduced? I guess you'd still want a guarantee on the hips - I heard that you can't get the hips certified until they are 2 years old. What's that called - OFA or something like that?" I'd like to qualify that while I believe AKC registered dogs/litters can reduce the possibility of hip dysplasia, there are plenty of breeders out there who will breed dogs who only have "Fair" OFA ratings. Personally, I would try to make sure that both the sire and the dam (father and mother) both have at least "Good" ratings, if not "Excellent". Also look for both eye (CERF) and heart ratings (I don't recall the term). The only problem with the "Guarantees" is that after two years, there are very few dog owners who are cold-hearted enough to trade a member of their family in on a new pup. That being said, I've had some great mutts over the years...so don't count out a rescue dog from a good rescue group, or even the animal shelter. They all deserve good homes. And I agree whole heartedly with Sukebe about not giving up on your dogs. I just read a story from hunter from Romania on a gun dog forum. His 18 month old dog was misdiagnosed by 4 vets as having an incurable shoulder problem. The 5th vet found a hairline crack in a joint bone and the dog is now on his way to recovery. Always politely challenge your vet and ask a ton of questions. If the answers don't seem to make sense with your gut feelings, get more opinions. I've had great success with vets over the years, but when I interview them to start with, I keep in mind that 50% of them graduated in the bottom half of their class....just like regular MD's....lol satcong, keep us posted on what you find out!
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:24:24 PM EST
I absolutely will keep you posted! And [b]thanks[/b] again!
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:32:30 PM EST
Get special puppy food that keeps them lean while growing. It is easy to over feed your dog and have their body weight overwelm their frame development and cause joint and other health issues. I adopted a shepard collie mix not long ago at only 4 wks old (I know its tech too young but you should have seen the conditions the animals were living in. I did it a favor, trust me.) Shepards are perhaps the most suseptable to HD. We kept her weight monitored by feeding her special food 2x a day for 10 min a shot. What she did not eat was taken away. Stay away from human food as treats as well (at least until she's full grown) I went back to were I got the dog 6 months later with pics to show the owners and owners kids as they said they would like to know how she is doing. When I went over they had a puppy they kept from the little tied up outdoors. I couldn't believe it! It had a dog bowl sized for large dogs heaping with food there, The damn dog looked like a pot bellied pig with pointy ears it was so fat! It was 2x the weight it should have been for the age!. I told them it was dangerous for their dog and what to do. They were gratefull and liked to see how my puppy worked out. She is lean as can be and lightning fast! BrenLover
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 12:44:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 12:46:05 PM EST by Slacker]
Most breeders, like this one whom I have a pup from [url]http://www.riverviewkennels.net[/url] guarentee their dogs hips, eyes, heart, elbows and temperment. Not saying that you won't get a bad one but it certainly reduces your chances. Additionally, the breeder will give you a replacement pup. I've seen breeders who will insist (if you don't want to put the dog down), that it be spayed/neutered, [b]and[/b] give you a new pup. Plus let you keep your dog! I've got my fingers crossed that my pup doesn't have hip problems. She's 15 months old and slightly overweight. Her OFA hips are "good" and I don't plan on breeding her (had her spayed 3 months ago) [img]http://personalpages.tds.net/~eflanagin/BillieGlock.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:05:16 PM EST
Nice looking dog there, Slacker!
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:22:47 PM EST
Good advice was given about second guessing your vet. One of our K-9 officers took his dog in for a bladder problem. The vet prescribed a medication. I can't remember the type or exact malady the dog was suffering from. The trusting officer began the medication routine suggested by the vet. Some of the more experienced K-9 handlers told the officer that the prescribed medication can cause kidney failure if given under certain conditions for certain ailments. The officer looked it up on the net and the information was confirmed. The dog did develop kidney failure and unfortunately died. True story, no B.S.. The handler is a friend and co-worker of mine. Ask questions insist on answers and check the information. Best wishes for you and your pup.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 1:41:28 PM EST
Definately get a second opinion! Especially from a vet that has alot of experience with diagnosing HD. My older dog was diagnosed with SEVERE HD when she was 1.5 years old. They told me I should put her down that that was all that was fair. Mind you this was at a MAJOR vet hospital. One of the best in the country. I took the xrays to another 2 doctors who both said that she may have very mild HD if they strtched it. She is now 10.5 years old and has had the best life of any dog I know. Keep your sirits up. I have been EXACTLY where you are. I have never felt so horrible as that day at the vet!! I was literally minutes from putting her down. I took her home to say goodbye when I talked to a friend who was a professional dog handler and he made me get other opinions. I would start glucosamine/msm. I get mine at the local supermarket. Do not let the dog jump too high/ hard until it reahces at least 1.5 years. I have a 1.5 year old and I still keep her from jumping too high. Also I cannot stress enough what others have said, keep the weight down. You would be amazed how that effects any animal. So your dog hasn't been diagnosed with HD by a professional? Get xrays done at about 1.5 years (before that is toooo soon!) and take them to a very experienced vet. I work with dogs and have seen growing pains be blown way out of proportion. I send you both all my good thoughts and a butt scratching for your pooch. Please let me know what happens. If you need any more info I have some contacts that may be able to help you out.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 2:55:50 PM EST
satcong, I forgot to mention that if your vet isn't familiar with Adequan, I'd be glad to send you the names and numbers of both my vet here, and another in LA who I know has had success with it. Defcon, the example you gave about the vet hospital reminds me of something I ran into years ago with my YLM at Ohio State Univ. Vet School. I took him in to be evaluated for a heart condition and gave them specific instructions regarding his lack of tolerance for certain medications. They ignored my instructions and when I picked him up he could hardly walk. It took us almost 2 weeks to get him balanced again. Also, you're right about growing pains, especially if it's a large dog. However, the Penn-Hip testing I mentioned earlier can apparently be done on dogs <1 year old and be fairly accurate. I know some lab trainers/breeders on a gun dog forum who use PH exclusively now due to its more rigorous criteria. I'll investigate it further when I get my next pup.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 3:01:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/6/2002 4:03:36 PM EST by Defcon]
Thanks. I am going to ask a few people I deal with about "penn-hip" testing. Thank you for informing me on it. I love this place. Even when you know something very well, you can still learn from the collective pool of knowledge. [url]http://www.vet.upenn.edu/ResearchCenters/pennhip/[/url] Here is a link about penn-hip. I just started reading it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2002 7:01:34 PM EST
If you have a large breed puppy, there is a good chance that what you are seeing is "pano" - panosteitis. For lack of a better description, it is simply growing pains that they get from the age of about five months to about 18 months. Some puppies cry quite a lot from it and can't walk. Then they grow out of it and are perfectly healthy. If that's what they have then the breeder I bought my pup from recommends daily doses of borage oil, flax seed oil, glucosamine and chondroitin, and Vitamin E. If you look it up through www.google.com you will find a number of descriptions of pano. As far as the incidence of hip problems, that depends upon the breed and the breeder. One particular large breed that has been bred specifically to reduce the hip problems is the Shiloh Shepherd. They are what you might call a "refined" German Shepherd. They came from GSDs but were bred to not have the sloped back so common in American GSDs, to reduce the hip problem, to be highly intelligent, to have a perfect "family" personality (very mellow dogs, great with kids but very protective), and to be about twice the size of a typical GSD. Mine, that I got, is five months old and about 90 pounds right now. He will be over 100 by the time he is six months, on his way to about 40-42 inches tall at the shoulder and perhaps 160 pounds. If anyone is interested, the best place to start looking is http://www.shilohshepherds.org Another good large breed that has pretty good hips is the Black Russian Terrier. They are the dogs the Russians bred as guard dogs when they didn't have any German Shepherds. They are large (up to 120 pounds), jet black, fabulous with kids, and fierce protectors. A google search will turn up a number of links, or start at http://www.blackrussianterrier.net
Link Posted: 8/8/2002 5:00:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/8/2002 6:18:22 AM EST by satcong]
Thanks for all the advice and help. Update: Vet came by yesterday, said that Teddy has either an injury (sprain) or truly has bad hips (says teddy's hips dont look that darn good however it could be the way he is growing also since he is only 7 months old. He manipulated the dogs joints for a few minutes, took his temp (102) -- wasn't too worried about the temp because of the heat in AZ. etc...Said it might even be valley fever although our other dog Shilo shows no signs. He said sometiimes valley fever affects the long bones. So he gave me a months worth of Rimadyland wants me to keep him in the kennel for a month, no roughhousing or running in yard/no walks to the golf course/park no playing with shilo whatsoever.... We're not sure what to do, the Rimadyl causes stomach upset and the kennel down time for one month will drive him nuts. He's big for seven months old, and the kennel is the largest the store sells but he will tear that thing up and spill his water and there is no one home till 300pm in the afternoon. We are going to talk about it tonight and decide what to do about the meds and the kennel rest.
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