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Posted: 10/8/2007 4:25:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2007 7:55:12 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:30:07 AM EDT
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.



S-28
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:42:16 AM EDT

Chrysler pays its workers an average of $75.86 per hour in wages, pension and health care costs, the highest among the Detroit automakers.


The UAW is singlehandedly destroying the American made car.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:44:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jetlag:

Chrysler pays its workers an average of $75.86 per hour in wages, pension and health care costs, the highest among the Detroit automakers.


The UAW is singlehandedly destroying the American made car.


Holy shit!

I am seriously in the wrong goddamn business!
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:46:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.



S-28
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:28:23 AM EDT
Why do we not hear about Toyota (who is #2 in the USA as far as car sales go) doesn't have these issues and managed to bump Ford and Chrysler out of the way?

Interesting.

$76.00/ Hr. I expect High End car makers pull that in..not the bolt turners and break takers the Americans employ...

But hey, they agree to it, so let them make it.

I knew the UAW was lying when they said they were only concearned with GM...

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:41:00 AM EDT
hasta la victoria siempre
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:45:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.

S-28


I agree, but the last time I looked, Michigan still only made a small portion of American cars.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:46:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shakes525:

Originally Posted By Jetlag:

Chrysler pays its workers an average of $75.86 per hour in wages, pension and health care costs, the highest among the Detroit automakers.


The UAW is singlehandedly destroying the American made car.


Holy shit!

I am seriously in the wrong goddamn business!



I'm sure that computes to around $30 per hour in actual gross pay.
USPS pays the same amount for total employee cost to the company.
The big three is in the health care business.
You know they are lobbying hard for Hillarycare.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:50:50 AM EDT
Can't blame Daimler for wanting rid of them even at a big loss.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:07:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:

Originally Posted By Shakes525:

Originally Posted By Jetlag:

Chrysler pays its workers an average of $75.86 per hour in wages, pension and health care costs, the highest among the Detroit automakers.


The UAW is singlehandedly destroying the American made car.


Holy shit!

I am seriously in the wrong goddamn business!



I'm sure that computes to around $30 per hour in actual gross pay.
USPS pays the same amount for total employee cost to the company.
The big three is in the health care business.
You know they are lobbying hard for Hillarycare.


People in the industry say GM is a healthcare provider that funds itself by selling cars....
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:17:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.

S-28


I agree, but the last time I looked, Michigan still only made a small portion of American cars.


True, just a small portion of the cars, but the supporting industrys here are/were a large majority.

It ain't just the cars, it's the parts&Bits that make the cars.

In the last 20 years I have watched 600+ auto industry jobs leave our little area where not a single vehicle is assembled.

National motors
Bohn Aluminum
Monitor Mold


And more are leaving every time the Big Three Outsources overseas/overborders to shave costs.

S-28

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:19:13 AM EDT
The auto industry has lost over 220,000 jobs here in SE Michigan..yet they give Granholm a standing ovation when ever she shows up.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:20:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 6:22:17 AM EDT by SJSAMPLE]

Originally Posted By S-28:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.

S-28


I agree, but the last time I looked, Michigan still only made a small portion of American cars.


True, just a small portion of the cars, but the supporting industrys here are/were a large majority.

It ain't just the cars, it's the parts&Bits that make the cars.

In the last 20 years I have watched 600+ auto industry jobs leave our little area where not a single vehicle is assembled.

National motors
Bohn Aluminum
Monitor Mold


And more are leaving every time the Big Three Outsources overseas/overborders to shave costs.

S-28



My father's Michigan business was a GM supplier, but he transitioned to the gas and fluid processing industry to avoid going down with the American auto industry.

I work for a Tier One supplier and I've watched a number of them go bankrupt or completely out of business. My own company is in re-org at the moment.

Michigan will surely be hit the hardest.

My father's business was a GM supplier, but he transitioned to the gas and fluid processing industry to avoid going down with the American auto indsutry.

I'm posting from one of our many parts plants in Mexico.

ETA: Six hundred is nothing. Our city here in Indiana is down over 26,000 from ten years ago.

I personally enjoyed telling the UAW workers that I was transitioning their jobs to Mexico. Asshats, almost to the man/woman.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:23:17 AM EDT
Will be interesting to see how Nardelli deals with the UAW.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:23:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
The auto industry has lost over 220,000 jobs here in SE Michigan..yet they give Granholm a standing ovation when ever she shows up.



Granholm joined my Catholic church in Plymouth.
They welcomed her with open arms, despite her stand on abortion.
Go figure.

I may never make it home to Michigan, at this rate.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:24:09 AM EDT
Wholly crap thats a lot of money, no wonder American cars makers cant keep up. Who's side are the Unions on cause there really helping the imports.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:27:56 AM EDT
Honest to God, UAW is a menace that needs to be eliminated.

Unfortunately the US auto industry and Michigan's economy will be destroyed first.

I don't understand why anyone would join an organization that would eventually put them out of work.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:36:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Why do we not hear about Toyota (who is #2 in the USA as far as car sales go) doesn't have these issues and managed to bump Ford and Chrysler out of the way?

Interesting.

$76.00/ Hr. I expect High End car makers pull that in..not the bolt turners and break takers the Americans employ...

But hey, they agree to it, so let them make it.

I knew the UAW was lying when they said they were only concearned with GM...





Why?

Because Toyota only opens factories in states where they have the law on their side, they don't hire UAW and fire anybody who tries it.

As a result, they make a better car, for less money, that is MORE American than any "US" car maker.
For now on, I only buy their cars, and hopefully that small gesture will help bring down that communist organization, the UAW, and and they can go back to making $15 for their unskilled labor.


CAPATILISM 4 LYFE

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:42:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By S-28:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.

S-28


I agree, but the last time I looked, Michigan still only made a small portion of American cars.


True, just a small portion of the cars, but the supporting industrys here are/were a large majority.

It ain't just the cars, it's the parts&Bits that make the cars.

In the last 20 years I have watched 600+ auto industry jobs leave our little area where not a single vehicle is assembled.

National motors
Bohn Aluminum
Monitor Mold


And more are leaving every time the Big Three Outsources overseas/overborders to shave costs.

S-28



My father's Michigan business was a GM supplier, but he transitioned to the gas and fluid processing industry to avoid going down with the American auto industry.

I work for a Tier One supplier and I've watched a number of them go bankrupt or completely out of business. My own company is in re-org at the moment.

Michigan will surely be hit the hardest.

My father's business was a GM supplier, but he transitioned to the gas and fluid processing industry to avoid going down with the American auto indsutry.

I'm posting from one of our many parts plants in Mexico.

ETA: Six hundred is nothing. Our city here in Indiana is down over 26,000 from ten years ago.

I personally enjoyed telling the UAW workers that I was transitioning their jobs to Mexico. Asshats, almost to the man/woman.


SJ,

600 jobs is very significant in a community of around 20,000, and little to no industry otherwise. Just agriculture and tourism.
Last one left is Pullman industrys, and they are on the bubble.
Real estate is going nuts with the flood of houses that aren't selling.

26,000 is about the poulation of the largest city in the county.

S-28
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:43:08 AM EDT
They smell blood in the water... time for them to hunt
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:47:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr_Happyface:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
Why do we not hear about Toyota (who is #2 in the USA as far as car sales go) doesn't have these issues and managed to bump Ford and Chrysler out of the way?

Interesting.

$76.00/ Hr. I expect High End car makers pull that in..not the bolt turners and break takers the Americans employ...

But hey, they agree to it, so let them make it.

I knew the UAW was lying when they said they were only concearned with GM...





Why?

Because Toyota only opens factories in states where they have the law on their side, they don't hire UAW and fire anybody who tries it.

As a result, they make a better car, for less money, that is MORE American than any "US" car maker.
For now on, I only buy their cars, and hopefully that small gesture will help bring down that communist organization, the UAW, and and they can go back to making $15 for their unskilled labor.


CAPATILISM 4 LYFE



The lack of unions is just one more piece of evidence that God really does love the south, and the UAW is one of his tools for destroying the north. The bible does say he wouldn't destroy the world with water again. I didn't really expect him to use unions, but they are doing a bang-up job in the rust belt.


Seriously; I don't think unions are completely to blame for the decimation of industrial jobs up north, but $76/hr total cost for a guy that works on an assembly line sure doesn't help.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:50:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By S-28:
Just a reminder.....

Will the last one leaving Michigan please remember to turn off the lights.

S-28


I agree, but the last time I looked, Michigan still only made a small portion of American cars.


The problem is that years ago MI bet the farm on the auto industry. There is no other industry here and the UAW and state govt. keep wanting to pretend there still is a booming auto industry.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 6:55:50 AM EDT
Extortion is the unlawful demand or receipt of property or money through the use of force or threat. A typical example of extortion would be when armed police or military men exact money for passage through a roadblock. Synonyms include blackmail, bloodsucking and extraction.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:01:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By S-28:
SJ,

600 jobs is very significant in a community of around 20,000, and little to no industry otherwise. Just agriculture and tourism.
Last one left is Pullman industrys, and they are on the bubble.
Real estate is going nuts with the flood of houses that aren't selling.

26,000 is about the poulation of the largest city in the county.

S-28


The city of Anderson, IN (which was once a major OE GM parts center) is starting to look like "Little Flint". Fortunately, Indiana wasn't as heavily vested (tethered) to the auto industry, but Anderson really took a hit.

Many of the guys (IT and engineers) that we pulled from other Tier One suppliers (Lear, Delphi, Guide, et al) are still sitting on unsold houses all over the metro area.

I really want to come home to Michigan, but it'll never happen at this rate.

Every time I see his commercials, I want to kick Jeff Daniels in the balls.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:10:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jwr6:

Because Toyota only opens factories in states where they have the law on their side, they don't hire UAW and fire anybody who tries it.


Illegal and most likely not happening.

Good companies fight unions by becoming better companies.

When I worked for PepsiCo, the top management had one goal:
NO UNIONS.

It was publically stated that any business unit that had a successful union drive would see their top three tiers excised within a matter of days, and Pepsi meant it.

As such, we began an aggressive anti-union campaign at the first site of reps or cards.
1. Daily meeting describing salary and benefits.
2. Intense employee education about the real organization process. Many employees thought contgract negotiations started at the current salary level. They were very shocked to hear the results of previous organization "successes" at some of our other plants. In one case, every employee went from full-time with ben. to part-time without benefits. Another plant operated over ten years without a contract before the employess got fed up and voted to de-cert.
3. Strict adherence to labor law. Employees standing around "organizing" on company time were told to get back to work. Cards found on company tables were collected and turned into HR. No reps allowed access to any part of the company property. All that stuff.

One really big deal is that managers and supervisers never illegally hinder organization drives, but use every legal method at our disposal to see that the attempts failed.

I learned more about fighting unions from Pepsi's lawyers and HR than I ever did in business school.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 7:23:28 AM EDT
I know someone who works at Verizon Wireless. They are terrified of unions there. Anyone who complains about anything and threatens to start a union drive, gets their ridiculous demands met.

People get to take extra hour long breaks in the afternoon because they get "stressed". Over 75% of the people in the department are on FMLA for "headaches". These people come in 4 hours late for their shift because of FMLA, then they volunteer for 4 hours of overtime after their shift is over. Verizon pays them 4 hours of OT even though they only actually "work" for 8 hours in the day.

Black people there have it even better. every month she is forced to upgrade the monthly evaluations for one or two of her team members because they need to have more black people rate as "leading" instead of "performing" or "developing". This generally results in "developing" black workers upgraded to "leading". Occasionally some of the non-Black workers are downgraded to "performing" from "leading" because they can't have tons of "leading" white people and not as many "leading" blacks.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:30:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By jwr6:

Because Toyota only opens factories in states where they have the law on their side, they don't hire UAW and fire anybody who tries it.


Illegal and most likely not happening.




That's true. You can't fire people for trying to organize.

You can, however, fire them for having freckles or wearing white socks or taking an extra minute for break or for a thousand other things. It's pure coincidence that they happened to be talking "union talk".
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:35:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jwr6:

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By jwr6:

Because Toyota only opens factories in states where they have the law on their side, they don't hire UAW and fire anybody who tries it.


Illegal and most likely not happening.




That's true. You can't fire people for trying to organize.

You can, however, fire them for having freckles or wearing white socks or taking an extra minute for break or for a thousand other things. It's pure coincidence that they happened to be talking "union talk".


Sure. But courts can see through this kind of thing.
I will agree that it's always the biggest douchebags and slackers that start the petition or run for steward, so they're easier to target because of their work record.

However, their "status" as organizers makes them somewhat of a protected class and it's rarely worth the hassle or lawsuit $$$ to target them.

We had a guy come in wearing a union hat and we made him remove it.
He went to the labor board and cited a number of other employees wearing hats with logos, etc. on them.
He won and was allowed to wear the hat for six months and we revised our policy on hats (we started providing hats with company logos).
The new hats were fugly, so other employees trashed his car.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:39:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mateba:
hasta la victoria siempre


The perfect reply in any union thread.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:45:50 AM EDT
From the article:


A short strike may not hurt Chrysler much because it has five U.S. plants scheduled to be shut down for a week or two starting Monday because of lower market demand for their products.


Hmm. So UAW decides to instigate a showdown with Chrysler while it is possibly mulling over the idea of closing a few plants? [Orbit gum] BRILLIANT! [/Orbit gum].
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 9:48:59 AM EDT
Go figure. What else is new with the UAW. They will never get enough of * out of corporation X. So instead they just continuously strike.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 10:00:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:

The big three is in the health care business.
You know they are lobbying hard for Hillarycare.


I can't argue your premise is false, but think of the irony of that mindset if it is true?

Big 3 want Hitlarycare so they can push most or all their health care expense burden off across the entire taxpayer base.

BUT, you don't get Hitlarycare without Hitlary.

Which means that, along with socialized health care, we also get:

Lib-driven crippling tax confiscations from our income,

A wholesale sell-out of our advanced manufacturing technologies to whatever foreign interest highest-bidders (read as China) are willing to back-channel pay-off Bitchlary and the First Husband. (disagree? read about the technology waivers the Clinton administration illegally pushed through for China during their last reign of terror),

Misc other insane fees, taxes and regulations that will drive businesses or entire industries out of the country.

The net effect of all this will be that the Big 3 may get out from under their crippling health care cost burden, only to find that, other than couple buildings full of lawmakers in D.C., there's practically no one else left in the country with money to buy a new car, no matter how much lower the price.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:00:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:
Will be interesting to see how Nardelli deals with the UAW.


Bob won't put up with it. He is known for leveraging expenses to increase profitability. In most companies, including Chrysler, payroll is your largest expense. As a private company he has very few to answer to, and the ones that he answers to want profits, either now or in the long run. I believe Bob knows the right move to make, and your about to see the UAW be very disappointed. Don't be surprised to see Chrysler leading the way in breaking the unions back with the big 3..........
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:08:53 PM EDT
$76/hour!?!?!

And they wonder why the jobs are being cut left and right... that's more than many schooled professionals, for essentially a job they could train a monkey to do!
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:23:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:



Your posts in this thread have warmed my little black heart.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 4:46:16 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Mr_Happyface:
Because Toyota only opens factories in states where they have the law on their side, they don't hire UAW and fire anybody who tries it.

As a result, they make a better car, for less money, that is MORE American than any "US" car maker.
For now on, I only buy their cars, and hopefully that small gesture will help bring down that communist organization, the UAW, and and they can go back to making $15 for their unskilled labor.


CAPATILISM 4 LYFE


First off, check into UAW Local 2244, they build the tacoma, corolla, and the matrix. Next, toyota does not build cars/trucks that are "more American", look at the parts content on any car. You will see that the top ten most American cars/trucks are domestics (in fact I believe the F150 is number one with a 94-95% US part rate).

Presently toyota is building a camry plant in China, North America is the main market for the camry. All Honda Accords sold in Europe are already made in China, what makes you think they will stay in the US? Are you a capalist that supports globalism or do you support repressive trade and socialist policies?

Finally, in the last presidental election, the FCC reported that 73% of toyota's political donations when to democrats versus 71% and 60% to republicans for Ford and GM. Something to think about.

With that said, I have no use for the UAW. I worked in many Ford plants and the goobers that forced handouts and voter lists on us were nuts. The funny part is that a good 50% ignored them anyways.
Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:26:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Can't blame Daimler for wanting rid of them even at a big loss.


Daimler no longer owns Chrysler. They sold it (at a huge loss) to a private equity group (the same ones that own Bushmaster, I think), earlier this year IIRC.

Link Posted: 10/8/2007 5:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2007 5:27:13 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
double tap
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 7:56:36 AM EDT
Well...here it is:


At 11 a.m. this morning, without the announcement of a new labor agreement between Chrysler LLC and the UAW, Chrysler union workers took to the picket lines.

It’s the second strike against a Detroit automaker in the past two-and-half weeks by the UAW and the first strike against Chrysler in recent history.

Chrysler UAW workers — around 49,000 people — across the nation have been instructed by UAW President Ron Gettelfinger to walk-off the job at 11 a.m. if they were not instructed to do otherwise.


Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:01:55 AM EDT
UAW will find out the new owners of Chrysler are very different than GM or Ford...
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:31:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
UAW will find out the new owners of Chrysler are very different than GM or Ford...


How so?

And as many problems as I've had with my new bought Jeep, fuck 'em.


-K


Private Money.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:45:02 AM EDT
Just for argument, say Chrysler decides to rid itself of the union problem.

How would they go about this?

When a union strikes, are those workers' jobs protected by law? What's to stop the company from hiring new hourly workers at $20/hour?
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:54:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Just for argument, say Chrysler decides to rid itself of the union problem.

How would they go about this?

When a union strikes, are those workers' jobs protected by law? What's to stop the company from hiring new hourly workers at $20/hour?


SE Michigan has got to be full of unemployed people begging for $20/hour jobs. Opportunity is pounding at the door.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:55:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Just for argument, say Chrysler decides to rid itself of the union problem.

How would they go about this?

When a union strikes, are those workers' jobs protected by law? What's to stop the company from hiring new hourly workers at $20/hour?


There is no contract. At will employment at that time.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 8:58:40 AM EDT
My prediction: It will last a week or less (likely 3-4 days I would guess) and is 100% show. The automakers hold all the cards here. If the union doesn't go for it, the automaker goes under. If they want jobs, they will have to play ball.

This is my thinking on what happened with GM. They knew they held the cards and said "if you want jobs, you will agree to this. If you need to "strike" to make it look like you've got a choice in the matter, fine, but this is the offer..."

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:21:49 AM EDT
With the way things are up here, I hope someone has the balls to smack people around. No one is doing it to Granholm, GM failed...Ford will be next.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:24:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
With the way things are up here, I hope someone has the balls to smack people around. No one is doing it to Granholm, GM failed...Ford will be next.



GM pwn3d the union in the last round. They got just about everything they wanted.
Link Posted: 10/10/2007 9:26:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jetlag:

Chrysler pays its workers an average of $75.86 per hour in wages, pension and health care costs, the highest among the Detroit automakers.


The UAW is singlehandedly destroying the American made car.


That's because they're led by communists. The sooner they can destroy the American market machine the sooner they can convince the masses to vote in real communism.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 10:59:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
With the way things are up here, I hope someone has the balls to smack people around. No one is doing it to Granholm, GM failed...Ford will be next.



GM pwn3d the union in the last round. They got just about everything they wanted.


You think? To me, it looked like they got bullied into higher costs..and in the end us paying more for inferior products.

Link Posted: 10/10/2007 11:01:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
With the way things are up here, I hope someone has the balls to smack people around. No one is doing it to Granholm, GM failed...Ford will be next.



GM pwn3d the union in the last round. They got just about everything they wanted.


You think? To me, it looked like they got bullied into higher costs..and in the end us paying more for inferior products.



I know a lot of people who arent going to be paying any higher cost, because they wont be buying any more US made cars.
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