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Posted: 9/1/2004 5:35:21 AM EST
www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=27295


Gunman warned police to stay out
By Bryon Wells, Tribune
"I guess this is my last few minutes on the planet," Douglas M. Tatar said.
It was for two Phoenix police officers, as well.

Phoenix police on Tuesday released 911 tapes and radio traffic of a shootout between police and Tatar on Saturday near Northern and 19th avenues.

Officers Jason Wolfe, 27, and Eric White, 30, were killed after they kicked open an apartment door into the sights of the waiting gunman. Officer Chris Parese, 26, was wounded with a bullet in his side. Tatar, 29, shot himself in the head.

Tatar called 911 about 6 p.m. Saturday from his apartment at 1905 W. Las Palamitas Drive, saying he’d just shot a man who threatened to fight him every day until he paid a $100 lost bet. He said he was armed with a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson handgun.

Tatar refused to go outside and talk with officers, saying he would not go to jail and that there was a "mob" of people outside that had shot at him. He then told the operator to follow up on "leads" on unrelated cases he’d told Phoenix investigators of in the past, as well as a surgeon who operated on his legs.

Confused, the operator asks, "What information is the surgeon going to provide for us? Are you on any medication?"

Tatar then raises his voice and says, "Don’t open that door."

Operator: "Sir"

Tatar: "What. .. no, I’m not."

Operator: "Sir?"

Tatar: "Who are these people outside the door, ma’am?"

A commotion follows, then the sound of several gunshots. Muffled screams. The operator repeats, "Doug? Doug? Doug?"

Talking in the background. More gunfire.

Other officers pulled their comrades to safety under gunfire.

In the radio traffic, there was a commotion, yelling, and a frantic broadcast of "We have an officer down (inaudible) now."

More ye lling and commotion.

"We’ve got two officers down. Three officers down, two next to the apartment. We’re trying to extract the second officer," an officer shouts.

"They’ve got the second officer. They’re evac-ing him out now; we’re just holding down the apartment."

The SWAT team and gang squad was then called to the scene.

A supervisor orders other officers to stay away from the apartment until the special units arrive.

"We’re going to lock this thing down," the unidentified officer said.

Relatives of Tatar said he was unstable and had a conspiracy theory that police were out to harass him. They told ABC 15 News that he had a concealed weapons permit, wasn’t afraid of police and would shoot officers if he could.
The deaths bring the number of line-of-duty deaths for Phoenix police officers to 29 since the first recorded death in 1925, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

Flags are flying at half-staff across the Valley until the end of the officers’ funerals this weekend.

White is survived by his wife Colleen, daughter Alexia, son Connor, parents James and Christine White, brother Chad, and sister-in-law Stacy.

Wolfe is survived by his wife Tara, sons Caleb and Kameron, and parents Lynette McMinn and Russell Wolfe.


Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:38:36 AM EST
Ouch.

Guess that shows what can happen when they go after someone capable of fighting back.


Prayers for the officer's families
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:39:07 AM EST
Great....
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:40:38 AM EST
Fucken nutbag.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:05:57 AM EST
I am certainly interested in more details.

Such as, did he know or have reason to believe it was the cops entering as opposed to the other BG's?

What exactly did the unidentified officer mean by "lock this thing down"?

I think as usual we will only get half the story on this one.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:08:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:16:16 AM EST
There has got to be WAY more to this story.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:16:57 AM EST
They should revoke his CCW immediately!
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:19:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
I am certainly interested in more details.

Such as, did he know or have reason to believe it was the cops entering as opposed to the other BG's?

What exactly did the unidentified officer mean by "lock this thing down"?

I think as usual we will only get half the story on this one.




+1
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:23:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:24:18 AM EST
The guy was obviously a nutjob!

My condolences to the officer's families.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:24:54 AM EST
Weird.......
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:32:41 AM EST
Something drove that guy over the edge. I'm sorry that those officers died because of it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:33:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
my condolences to the officers' families and i hope the third recovers quickly and fully.

'doug' sounds like he was a lunatic that never should have owned a firearm.



amen, i agree

this makes it hard for the ccw issue
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:33:53 AM EST
God Bless the fallen officers and their families. I wonder if they were properly trained to make an entry like this. If they know the guy is armed and waiting, why push him. Why not wait him out until better armed, more qualified units arrive?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:45:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By dave223:
God Bless the fallen officers and their families. I wonder if they were properly trained to make an entry like this. If they know the guy is armed and waiting, why push him. Why not wait him out until better armed, more qualified units arrive?




"Super Cop" syndrome, maybe???

When I went thru the academy, one of the things the taught us was the first thing you do when you get to a scene like this is wait for backup
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:53:18 AM EST
Isn't AZ an open carry state?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:54:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Ouch.

Guess that shows what can happen when they go after someone capable of fighting back.


Prayers for the officer's families


No,that shows what happens when an unstable person has access to firearms.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:55:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 6:59:23 AM EST by markm]

Originally Posted By nationwide:
When I went thru the academy, one of the things the taught us was the first thing you do when you get to a scene like this is wait for backup



There were 8 officers on scene. The first three got hit with fire. They should have FRAGGED the MOTHER FUCKER!

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:01:27 AM EST
I don't think you need a CCW to have a pistol in your pad.

That was only brought up to make CCW look like a bad idea.

We are only getting the partial story.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:03:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
There were 8 officers on scene. The first three got hit with fire. They should have FRAGGED the MOTHER FUCKER!




Fragging is BIT out of the realm of civilian LE, but you are on the right track. Most street cops are ill-prepared (gear, mindset, tactics) for a determined barricaded subject. SWAT and flashbangs are your friends in situations like this. And usually the only way to get subjects like this out without taking casualities of your own.

Sounds like the officers probably didn't have all the info that dispatch did. Bad scene all around.

Prayers to the families and comrades of the fallen. It's always painful to put on the black band.

-Z



Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:12:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 7:13:08 AM EST by Jame_Retief]
If you will re-read the story, it sounds as though not all of the information had had a chance to be passed on to the officers at the scene who were doing th entry.

That said . . . if he called the police after a shooting, he realized he had done wrong. The officers should have realized they were dealing with a nutjob that was armed.

Someone screwed up and these brave officers paid the price. Whether it was overexcitability on the part of a superior and not waiting the proper equipment or lack of proper information.



Edit: And the CCW was apparently brought up by the nutjob when he was threatening to shoot the cops, not just by the media.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:12:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By dave223:
God Bless the fallen officers and their families. I wonder if they were properly trained to make an entry like this. If they know the guy is armed and waiting, why push him. Why not wait him out until better armed, more qualified units arrive?




"Super Cop" syndrome, maybe???

When I went thru the academy, one of the things the taught us was the first thing you do when you get to a scene like this is wait for backup



Yeah because they sure aren't teaching ya to fight with a firearm are they!
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:13:03 AM EST
It almost sounds like the guy didn't know who was at the door but I doubt that.

I guess my big question is where were the officers stuck, were they not wearing thier vests? were they struck in an area where they had no protection from their vest?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:14:31 AM EST
It's also entirely possible that he got the CCW years ago, became a little unstable/cranked off, and kept mailing his CCW renewals in. Only way they authorities would have figured out that he was unstable would have been to interview him. If he kept a low profile and just sent in his renewals, they'd nver know he was unstable.

Now if he was unstable, had previous dealings with the police (either reporting incidents, or involved in incidents), then the cops might have clued into the possibility that he had problems. I don't know, but expect that the local cops have a list of who has a CCW in their district (it probably is a matter of public record in any event).

Strange incident, and certainly an unfortunate one.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:17:58 AM EST
My condolences to the Officers families.
It's a real shame that this guy had access to a firearm. Why did this guys family, knowing he was unstable and "would shoot officers if he could", not report him to the authorities??
The crazy bastard.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:19:04 AM EST
It is unfortunate that the perp had a CCW. But just because you have a CCW doesn't make you an angel or a saint, they are just ordinary human beings. It is an effort by the anti-gun news media to discredit the CCW concept.

Maybe the 2 officers rest in peace.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:19:39 AM EST
You don't just mail in a renewal in AZ. You have to be re-fingerprinted, FBI check, and take refresher training. The CCW comment was typical news-clone drivel. Reported in the paper the weapon was a S&W .40 cal.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:21:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 7:23:10 AM EST by tcsd1236]

Originally Posted By Panzerwolf:
Yeah because they sure aren't teaching ya to fight with a firearm are they!


Just how much firearms training do you expect the average basic school to provide? The school is now 6 1/2 months long, with 2 weeks devoted to firearms, and another two weeks devoted to officer survival. Considering that many recruits now enter the basic school with no exposure to firearms, the instructors have to start from the ground up. They do alright with the time they are given.

Posted by Warlord:


It is unfortunate that the perp had a CCW. But just because you have a CCW doesn't make you an angel or a saint, they are just ordinary human beings.


I have said that for years, but folks around here think we should assume that every CCW holder, even in states where there isn't much of a background check conducted, are automatically one step below sainthood.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:21:12 AM EST
He was obviously a DEM...What was he doing with a gun?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:26:49 AM EST
My condolences to the victims and their families.

However, let's keep things in perspective.

Even if the nutbag did have a CCW it makes no difference given the circumstances.

While the media if they wish to can spin this into “CCW issuances need more laws” blah, blah, blah, the fact is that CCW holders are FAR, FAR less likely to break the law than non-CCW holders (or cops for that matter).

1 wacko out of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of CCW holders nationwide. Better odds on being hit with by a meteorite than crossing paths with a “rogue” CCW'er.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:41:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rockdoc:
You don't just mail in a renewal in AZ. You have to be re-fingerprinted, FBI check, and take refresher training. The CCW comment was typical news-clone drivel. Reported in the paper the weapon was a S&W .40 cal.



Thanks for the info. Here in PA, you mail in a renewal. You have to go down to the issuing authority to get your picture taken/card made up, but it's not as if they interview you/re-check you out.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:43:15 AM EST
It is unfortunate, but the case can be made similar with immigrant visas. Some of the 911 terrorists were allowed entry on visas that the INS knew they shouldn't have issued. But still the Terrorists got issued. Same here, sometimes a bad one falls through the cracks. You can't stop all the bad apples, but it is a shame 2X because 1) lives were lost, and 2) this will be used as anti-CCW propaganda. I am not saying anyone knew he was unstable. Just that you can't catch everyone on everything all the time.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:53:20 AM EST
Bad situation all around.

But you have to ask:

Why are officers stacked up the second story landing trying to enter an apartment where they have an individual on the phone with 911 telling her that he is alone, armed and just shot a neighbor?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:56:22 AM EST
sad.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:59:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 8:11:11 AM EST by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By nationwide:
I am certainly interested in more details.

Such as, did he know or have reason to believe it was the cops entering as opposed to the other BG's?

What exactly did the unidentified officer mean by "lock this thing down"?

I think as usual we will only get half the story on this one.



AS USUAL you will only get half the story because you are too lazy to look it up.


Hushed precinct mourns its fallen



Phoenix police officers Eric White, 30, and Jason Wolfe, 27 were killed Saturday night.

Officers struggle to absorb '1 of worst nights'

David J. Cieslak and Holly Johnson
The Arizona Republic
Aug. 30, 2004 12:00 AM


Still stunned by the shooting deaths of two fellow officers, police on Sunday searched for answers about the decision to raid a north Phoenix apartment where a gunman ambushed them.

Investigators continued to piece together details of Saturday night's gunbattle that killed Officers Jason Wolfe, 27, and Eric White, 30. Authorities believe Wolfe died from a gunshot wound to the head, while White was fatally shot in an area of his torso unprotected by his bulletproof vest. Both men were married and fathers of small children.

"Last night was one of the worst nights in our department's history," Phoenix Police Chief Jack Harris said at a news conference Sunday. "What we're here for is to provide the help and security that the community needs. Unfortunately, in this tragic incident, these officers paid the ultimate price in living up to that statement."

Police believe Wolfe and White were among eight officers who decided to force their way into the apartment where Douglas M. Tatar, 29, was holed up with a semiautomatic handgun.

But top police officials on Sunday could not explain why the officers chose to kick down Tatar's door instead of attempting negotiations or waiting for the highly trained Special Assignments Unit to arrive.


"It's a situation where you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't," said Phoenix police Cmdr. Dave Thomas, head of the department's Squaw Peak precinct where Wolfe and White were based. "Officers try to process all of the information in a very short time span, and they do the best they can."

Tatar is believed to have fired nine to 10 times at police, including a handful of shots that targeted officers who attempted to pull Wolfe and White to safety. Police returned fire with about 20 shots through Tatar's front door and a window, said Phoenix police Cmdr. Kim Humphrey, a department spokesman.

"Certainly the fact is they felt there was an immediacy to this," he said. "They used typical, tactical responses by having a number of officers in the area and approaching the apartment, and unable to get any kind of response, they kicked in the door."

Tatar is accused of shooting 25-year-old Side Williams during an argument, prompting the initial call to authorities. Williams, who was in the apartment complex's courtyard when Tatar shot him from a second-story balcony, remains hospitalized with a gunshot wound to the neck. Police believe Tatar called 911 after he shot Williams, but details of that call were not released.

Tatar was found dead when SWAT teams raided his apartment at 8:20 p.m., about two hours after the shootout with police. Investigators have yet to determine whether Tatar fatally shot himself or was killed by officers.

Phoenix police Officer Chris Parese, 26, also was shot by Tatar during the siege at the Northern Point Apartments, near Northern and 19th avenues. Parese was treated for a gunshot wound to his left hip and released from a hospital.

Also Saturday, another police officer and a man were injured in a car wreck near the apartment complex as the officer raced to the scene.

Justin Adams, 27, remained hospitalized late Sunday in serious condition. The officer, whose name could not be determined, was treated at a hospital and released.

Wolfe and White both were four-year veterans of the force who "worked together and played together," Thomas said.

"They all had serial numbers within a few digits of each other. They'd known each other since they came on the Police Department. They'd gone through the academy together."

The corridors of the Squaw Peak precinct were hushed Sunday as officers began and ended their shifts, often pausing for an embrace with a passing, grieving comrade.

"The precinct house itself is very quiet," Thomas said. "How people look at each other says a lot more than what they say."

Officers are trying to attend to the day-to-day matters of police work on a day unlike many in the precinct have ever seen, responding to routine calls and pushing paperwork. But the young officers' deaths hang in the air, a silent and constant reminder of two fallen brothers.

"I've been doing this for 36 years, and we really are a family," Thomas said. "We are a band of brothers and sisters that utterly have to rely on each other when something like this occurs."

Sergeants, lieutenants and officers at the scene described by many as "horrific" are haunted by what they saw, Thomas said.

"They're wounded emotionally," he said. "They were there. This is very, very tough. It may be one of the hardest things we've had to deal with in years. But we'll survive, and we're going to take care of our own."

The Police Department's critical-incidents stress management team poured into the precinct throughout the weekend to assist officers on duty. Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon also was on hand to talk with shaken officers.

Ministers consoled the officers' stricken family members Saturday night at John C. Lincoln Hospital and Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center, said Jake Jacobsen, president of the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association. A clergyman also was called out to the police radio room, where dispatchers struggled to reconcile what they had heard.

Shortly after midnight, an assistant chief came to both hospitals and privately briefed officers and families.

"We're trying to leave no stone unturned here," Jacobsen said. "If we have information, we'll give it out, and the investigation will be ongoing."

The union will hold a closed-door debriefing for officers Tuesday or Wednesday.

"When these tragedies strike, it opens up a real network of family-type support," Jacobsen said.

The deaths are the first in the Squaw Peak precinct since 1999, when Officer Mark Atkinson was fatally wounded while chasing three drug suspects. Saturday's killings mark the 26th and 27th line-of-duty deaths in the department's history.

Thomas remembered those deaths as he spent an unusually quiet Sunday afternoon in his precinct office, stricken with grief but determined to take care of the officers who remain.

He worries for the slain officers' families, and he worries for the officers affected by what they saw Saturday.

"There are those other officers, those lieutenants and sergeants and officers who witnessed this tragedy and participated in stopping it," Thomas said. "They're also very wounded by this."



This guy was NOT innocent and he knew DAMN WELL that those were police outside. But for a crazy guy he was a VERY good shot, he had obviously given a lot of thought as to how to take out armored assailants with a handgun.


911 tapes show need to act fast, police say



Phoenix police officers Eric White, 30, and Jason Wolfe, 27 were killed Saturday night.

Recording reveals chaos at scene

David J. Cieslak and Emily Bittner
The Arizona Republic
Sept. 1, 2004 12:00 AM


Moments before police kicked down his door and two officers were shot to death, a suspect holed up inside his north Phoenix apartment calmly told emergency dispatchers he was alone with a semiautomatic handgun and didn't want anyone to come inside.

"I guess this is my last few minutes on the planet, so I'm sorry. . . . I've been dealing with this for a year and half now. . . . It's time to be done with it," Douglas M. Tatar, 29, told a 911 dispatcher, according to audiotapes released Tuesday by the Phoenix Police Department.

Hearing a noise outside his apartment, Tatar said, "Don't open that door. . . . Who are these people outside my door?"

Within seconds, officers raided the apartment and exchanged a barrage of gunfire with Tatar. Killed were Officers Jason Wolfe, 27, and Eric White, 30. A third officer, Chris Parese, was injured in Saturday night's melee at the Northern Point Apartments, 1905 W. Las Palmaritas Drive.

Wolfe and White, both of whom were husbands and fathers, spent about four years on the force and worked out of a north-central Phoenix precinct.


Police said Tuesday that the tapes support the decision to kick down Tatar's door instead of waiting for SWAT teams, saying they offer new evidence that officers may have believed an additional victim was inside.

Police radio communications indicate a single shot was fired inside Tatar's apartment after officers arrived at the scene and before they attempted to enter the apartment. The gunfire took place around the same time Tatar called 911 to say he shot someone, police Cmdr. Kim Humphrey said.

"Maybe the officers are thinking there's a shot fired in the apartment and he just called to say he shot somebody. Maybe he just shot somebody in the apartment? It's a possibility from what we heard on there," Humphrey said.

The tapes indicate that dispatchers didn't relay a request from Tatar that no officers enter his apartment nor did they tell officers that he refused to come out.

Additionally, another officer asked dispatchers whether a specialized police tactical team, the Rapid Deployment Unit, was needed at the scene. The dispatcher agrees, but no additional units were immediately sent to the apartment.

Although Tatar told emergency dispatchers he was the only person in the apartment, a fact that was communicated to police at the scene, officers may not have trusted the gunman's account.

"Do you believe him? Guess what? Suspects and bad guys lie all the time," Humphrey said Tuesday.

Tatar was found dead by SWAT team members about two hours after the deadly gunbattle. He was alone in the apartment, and police said he shot himself.

Officers rushed to the apartment complex after Tatar, a mentally disturbed man who worked as a driver for a courier service, shot another man during a dispute over a $100 bet. The wounded man, 25-year-old Side Williams, was treated at John C. Lincoln Hospital-North Mountain for a gunshot wound to the neck.

Officers arrived at the apartment complex a few minutes after the 5:54 p.m. shooting because neighbors who saw the incident called 911.

Tatar, who had retreated into his second-floor apartment, called 911 at about 6:03 p.m. to tell dispatchers he "just shot someone."

He gave the dispatcher his name, phone number and told her he was holding a .40-caliber Smith & Wesson handgun.

She asked him where in the apartment he was.

"I'm not going to provide you with any information," Tatar responded.

The dispatcher then asked him to put down his gun and talk to officers.

"There's no way I'm walking outside of this building," Tatar said. "I can't go to jail. These people are drug dealers ... and I'm not going to get beat up in jail every day. That is not a current option."

After Tatar told emergency operators he believed he was going to die, a dispatcher told officers Tatar likely was suicidal.

But the moment that dispatchers relayed those details, the shooting began. The tapes do not indicate whether officers heard the information.

As the officers lay dying in the apartment's doorway and the gunbattle continued, other officers rushed to their aid and summoned ambulances to the scene. An alarm can be heard blaring in the background.

"Get back! . . . Stay down, stay down! . . . I can't get in there!" officers at the doorway yelled.

"Officer down! We need (unintelligible) to Palmaritas now!" an unidentified officer shouted into his radio.

"Is there a unit could advise who's down?" a dispatcher asked the officer.

"Two officers down. Three officers down. Two next to the apartment. We've got one coming out by the front," the officer said.

Wolfe was shot in the head, while White suffered a fatal wound to a portion of his upper body not protected by his bulletproof vest.

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:07:16 AM EST
Just.....damn. What a tragic outcome.
Anyone who has a relative with mental problems will know what I mean.
I'm just so sorry for all of them.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:23:35 AM EST
His family sounds like a bunch of idiots. They knew he was unstable and was armed. It's too bad that the SWAT team was not called until after they were dead.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:26:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By akethan:
His family sounds like a bunch of idiots. They knew he was unstable and was armed. It's too bad that the SWAT team was not called until after they were dead.


And how many people on boards like this have advocated that families should "resolve it within the family" and not call LEOs? I have seen it often, particularly on boards like Assaultweb, and to a lesser degree, here.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:41:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 8:45:08 AM EST by taptap]
edit: withdrew comment to prevent thread highjack.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 8:46:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:Posted by Warlord:


It is unfortunate that the perp had a CCW. But just because you have a CCW doesn't make you an angel or a saint, they are just ordinary human beings.


I have said that for years, but folks around here think we should assume that every CCW holder, even in states where there isn't much of a background check conducted, are automatically one step below sainthood.



Hmm.. the same thing is often said of cops.....

So, whe have ONE CCH holder in the state that lost his marbles out of how many CCH holders?

Seems like an isolated incident that has no real statistical value, kinda like the # of 'assault weapons' used in crimes...
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 11:43:02 AM EST
This is a sad, sad story. My condolences to the families of these officers.

Unfortunately, in hind sight this could have been avoided.




.....
But top police officials on Sunday could not explain why the officers chose to kick down Tatar's door instead of attempting negotiations or waiting for the highly trained Special Assignments Unit to arrive.

.....
"Certainly the fact is they felt there was an immediacy to this," he said. "They used typical, tactical responses by having a number of officers in the area and approaching the apartment, and unable to get any kind of response, they kicked in the door."



I see this as a tactical mistake. You know the guy is nuts (shoots someone over $100). You know he's armed.

As a non-entry team member, they should not be kicking down the door. Block the guy into the apartment, call SWAT.

But then I wasn't there and I'm not LEO, so I'm no expert, but it seems to me like kicking a door down with a mentally unstable armed individual behind it is an extremely hazardous duty, better left to the guys with alot more training.

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:09:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Panzerwolf:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By dave223:
God Bless the fallen officers and their families. I wonder if they were properly trained to make an entry like this. If they know the guy is armed and waiting, why push him. Why not wait him out until better armed, more qualified units arrive?




"Super Cop" syndrome, maybe???

When I went thru the academy, one of the things the taught us was the first thing you do when you get to a scene like this is wait for backup



Yeah because they sure aren't teaching ya to fight with a firearm are they!




I like to think I was trained to make a difference.
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