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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/5/2005 4:05:32 AM EDT
So, this stinky Hippy sends me the following e-mail. I think I'm going to reject all of my current views, have a Viking funeral for my .38 and 10/22 (send them to the bottom with the rest of my gun collection) and join them singing "Cum-by-ya".


From: "Darwin Dyce" <dyce@mvtvwireless.com>
To: "Alison Groene" <alisongroene@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fw: Dispelling the myths MAPS
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:22:03 -0500


Greetings,

I am forwarding this info. from Pat Mellenthin. Excellent info. to pass on and try lessen some of the hate and fear that has been showing up in the local paper and probably coffee shop conversations.

Darwin Dyce MAPS, Marshall


Subject: Dispelling the myths


In today's Marshall Independent, Sr. Jeanette Homan, OSF from Ghent had a letter to the editor regarding immigrants. At the end of her letter, she provided a website that dispells a number of myths about immigrants. The website is www.justiceforimmigrants.org/myths.html. I have also pasted the information from that website below.

PLEASE share this information with others. We all know certain individuals that like to fuel these myths (even some public figures that I will leave nameless). Unfortunately, especially when public figures encourage an unwelcoming climate for immigrants, it breeds more mistrust and racism. Knowing and sharing the facts is important if we intend to dispel the myths.

Pat Mellenthin






LEARN THE ISSUES



Myths

Immigrants don’t pay taxes

Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes. Undocumented immigrants pay income taxes as well, as evidenced by the Social Security Administration’s “suspense file” (taxes that cannot be matched to workers’ names and social security numbers), which grew by $20 billion between 1990 and 1998

(Source: http://www.immigrationforum.org/about/articles/tax_study.htm)

Immigrants come here to take welfare

Immigrants come to work and reunite with family members. Immigrant labor force participation is consistently higher than native-born, and immigrant workers make up a larger share of the U.S. labor force (12.4%) than they do the U.S. population (11.5%). Moreover, the ratio between immigrant use of public benefits and the amount of taxes they pay is consistently favorable to the U.S. In one estimate, immigrants earn about $240 billion a year, pay about $90 billion a year in taxes, and use about $5 billion in public benefits. In another cut of the data, immigrant tax payments total $20 to $30 billion more than the amount of government services they use.

(Source: “Questioning Immigration Policy – Can We Afford to Open Our Arms?”, Friends Committee on National Legislation Document #G-606-DOM, January 25, 1996. http:www.fas.org/pub/gen/fcnl/immigra.html)

Immigrants send all their money back to their home countries

In addition to the consumer spending of immigrant households, immigrants and their businesses contribute $162 billion in tax revenue to U.S. federal, state, and local governments. While it is true that immigrants remit billions of dollars a year to their home countries, this is one of the most targeted and effective forms of direct foreign investment.

(Source: http://www.cato.org/research/articles/griswold-020218.html.)

Immigrants take jobs and opportunity away from Americans

The largest wave of immigration to the U.S. since the early 1900s coincided with our lowest national unemployment rate and fastest economic growth. Immigrant entrepreneurs create jobs for U.S. and foreign workers, and foreign-born students allow many U.S. graduate programs to keep their doors open. While there has been no comprehensive study done of immigrant-owned businesses, we have countless examples: in Silicon Valley, companies begun by Chinese and Indian immigrants generated more than $19.5 billion in sales and nearly 73,000 jobs in 2000.

(Source: Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Stephen Moore, Immigration and Unemployment: New Evidence, Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, Arlington, VA (Mar. 1994), p. 13.

Immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy

During the 1990s, half of all new workers were foreign-born, filling gaps left by native-born workers in both the high- and low-skill ends of the spectrum. Immigrants fill jobs in key sectors, start their own businesses, and contribute to a thriving economy. The net benefit of immigration to the U.S. is nearly $10 billion annually. As Alan Greenspan points out, 70% of immigrants arrive in prime working age. That means we haven’t spent a penny on their education, yet they are transplanted into our workforce and will contribute $500 billion toward our social security system over the next 20 years

(Source: Andrew Sum, Mykhaylo Trubskyy, Ishwar Khatiwada, et al., Immigrant Workers in the New England Labor Market: Implications for Workforce Development Policy, Center for Labor Market Studies, Northeastern University, Boston, Prepared for the New England Regional Office, the Employment and Training Administration, and the U.S. Department of Labor, Boston, Massachusetts, October 2002.

http://www.nupr.neu.edu/1102/immigration.PDF#search='center%20for%20labor%20market%20studies%20at­%20Northeastern%20University%20studies')

Immigrants don’t want to learn English or become Americans

Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. Greater than 33% of immigrants are naturalized citizens; given increased immigration in the 1990s, this figure will rise as more legal permanent residents become eligible for naturalization in the coming years. The number of immigrants naturalizing spiked sharply after two events: enactment of immigration and welfare reform laws in 1996, and the terrorist attacks in 2001.

(Source: American Immigration Lawyers Association, “Myths & Facts in the Immigration Debate”, 8/14/03. http://www.aila.org/contentViewer.aspx?bc=17,142#section4)

(Source: Simon Romero and Janet Elder, “Hispanics in the US Report Optimism” New York Times, (Aug. 6, 2003).

Today’s immigrants are different than those of 100 years ago

The percentage of the U.S. population that is foreign-born now stands at 11.5%; in the early 20th century it was approximately 15%. Similar to accusations about today’s immigrants, those of 100 years ago initially often settled in mono-ethnic neighborhoods, spoke their native languages, and built up newspapers and businesses that catered to their fellow émigrés. They also experienced the same types of discrimination that today’s immigrants face, and integrated within American culture at a similar rate. If we view history objectively, we remember that every new wave of immigrants has been met with suspicion and doubt and yet, ultimately, every past wave of immigrants has been vindicated and saluted.

(Source: Census Data: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/c2kprof00-us.pdf,http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/censr-4.pdf )

Most immigrants cross the border illegally

Around 75% of today’s immigrants have legal permanent (immigrant) visas; of the 25% that are undocumented, 40% overstayed temporary (non-immigrant) visas.

(Source: Department of Homeland Security (http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/index.htm)

Weak U.S. border enforcement has lead to high undocumented immigration

From 1986 to 1998, the Border Patrol’s budget increased six-fold and the number of agents stationed on our southwest border doubled to 8,500. The Border Patrol also toughened its enforcement strategy, heavily fortifying typical urban entry points and pushing migrants into dangerous desert areas, in hopes of deterring crossings. Instead, the undocumented immigrant population doubled in that timeframe, to 8 million—despite the legalization of nearly 3 million immigrants after the enactment of the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986. Insufficient legal avenues for immigrants to enter the U.S., compared with the number of jobs in need of workers, has significantly contributed to this current conundrum.

(Source: Immigration and Naturalization website: http://www.ncjrs.org/ondcppubs/publications/enforce/border/ins_3.html)

The war on terrorism can be won through immigration restrictions

No security expert since September 11th, 2001 has said that restrictive immigration measures would have prevented the terrorist attacks—instead, the key is effective use of good intelligence. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legal visas. Since 9/11, the myriad of measures targeting immigrants in the name of national security have netted no terrorism prosecutions. In fact, several of these measures could have the opposite effect and actually make us less safe, as targeted communities of immigrants are afraid to come forward with information.

(Source: Associated Press/Dow Jones Newswires, “US Senate Subcommittee Hears Immigration Testimony”, Oct. 17, 2001.)

(Source: Cato Institute: “Don’t Blame Immigrants for Terrorism”, Daniel Griswold, Assoc. Director of Cato Institute’s Center for Trade Policy Studies (see: http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-23-01.html)

June 09,2005













Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:12:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
So, this stinky Hippy sends me the following e-mail. I think I'm going to reject all of my current views, have a Viking funeral for my .38 and 10/22 (send them to the bottom with the rest of my gun collection) and join them singing "Cum-by-ya".



So can you refute the facts presented?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:15:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 4:17:47 AM EDT by olyarms]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
So, this stinky Hippy sends me the following e-mail. I think I'm going to reject all of my current views, have a Viking funeral for my .38 and 10/22 (send them to the bottom with the rest of my gun collection) and join them singing "Cum-by-ya".



So can you refute the facts presented?


How do they pay income tax? Every illegal I have heard of gets payed under the table, and will out a social or tax ID how do you file every year?

ETA: Are we talking legal or illegal?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:16:00 AM EDT
I know that the figure of $5 billion a year from government programs for the entire illegal immigrant population is way too low, let alone the entire "immigrant" population which the email includes stats from quite often.

California alone spends over $7 billion a year on education for illegal immigrants and their families - this is one state and is not even including healthcare costs.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:19:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
So, this stinky Hippy sends me the following e-mail. I think I'm going to reject all of my current views, have a Viking funeral for my .38 and 10/22 (send them to the bottom with the rest of my gun collection) and join them singing "Cum-by-ya".



So can you refute the facts presented?


How do they pay income tax? Every illegal I have heard of gets payed under the table, and will out a social or tax ID how do you file every year?

ETA: Are we talking legal or illegal?


Direct your question to the source. I am asking if the facts can be refuted.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:26:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
So, this stinky Hippy sends me the following e-mail. I think I'm going to reject all of my current views, have a Viking funeral for my .38 and 10/22 (send them to the bottom with the rest of my gun collection) and join them singing "Cum-by-ya".



So can you refute the facts presented?



Nope, that's why I realize my thinking is all wrong. I also realize that a gun in my home is more likely to result in the death of a family member then a criminal.

BTW: Did you stop beating your wife yet? Yes or No?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:33:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
Nope, that's why I realize my thinking is all wrong. I also realize that a gun in my home is more likely to result in the death of a family member then a criminal.



Thats a claim that can be refuted.I am asking if you can refute the information you are disputing, or are you ignoring it because you CAN'T refute it?


BTW: Did you stop beating your wife yet? Yes or No?


Not an issue here. Never laid my hands on a woman , but nice try at deflecting the topic.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:38:32 AM EDT
This email conflates the issues of immigration and illegal immigration. Nobody argues that legal immigrants don't pay taxes or are a drain on the economy. In fact, most of the legal immigrants I've met work a hell of a lot harder than most "native" Americans, especially some lower income segments of our population. I could give a shit about legal immigrants. It's illegal immigrants that are the problem.

This is propaganda for idiots.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:56:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
Nope, that's why I realize my thinking is all wrong. I also realize that a gun in my home is more likely to result in the death of a family member then a criminal.



Thats a claim that can be refuted.I am asking if you can refute the information you are disputing, or are you ignoring it because you CAN'T refute it?


BTW: Did you stop beating your wife yet? Yes or No?


Not an issue here. Never laid my hands on a woman , but nice try at deflecting the topic.



You're missing the point. Present some info and a little mis-direction and you get the desired result. "Yes" or "No" questions such as "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" cannot be answered so simply.

I am, however, happy to know that you have never laid your hands on a woman.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:00:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Tacberry:
So, this stinky Hippy sends me the following e-mail. I think I'm going to reject all of my current views, have a Viking funeral for my .38 and 10/22 (send them to the bottom with the rest of my gun collection) and join them singing "Cum-by-ya".



So can you refute the facts presented?


How do they pay income tax? Every illegal I have heard of gets payed under the table, and will out a social or tax ID how do you file every year?

ETA: Are we talking legal or illegal?



The facts stated about immigrants are not about illegal immigrants. You can be assured that the first 7 points are false when it comes to illegal immigrants.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:15:02 AM EDT
How many illegal aliens are there in local, state, and federal prisons? Oh gee, it's not one of the stats presented in the e-mail!
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:39:03 AM EDT
This is from http://www.juntosociety.com

Fact Sheet

Immigration

With various proposals for some form of amnesty for illegal aliens being debated in Washington, it is useful to have an idea of the magnitude of the problem. Of course no one knows exactly how many aliens are living and working illegally in the United States because of the illegal nature of their presence, which prevents enumeration.

The 2000 Census, like all previous censuses, made no attempt to determine the immigration status of foreign-born residents. Nevertheless, the results of the Census did contribute to a re-evaluation of the proportion of the illegal alien population. It now appears that independent analysts agree that the illegal alien population numbers between 8.5 and 11 million people.

The Census Bureau issued an estimate in January 2002 that illegal aliens numbered 8,705,421(1). That estimate was based on the discrepancy between the number of foreign-born residents and the number of legally admitted residents.

The release of the latest immigration data indicate that illegal aliens adjusting their status drove "legal" immigration levels to more than one million in fiscal year 2001. With the exception of a one year spike in caused by the illegal alien amnesty of 1986, this is the first time in nearly a century that immigration exceeded the one million mark and the 1,064, 318 people admitted represent a 65% increase in just two years.

Data released in September 2002 reveals some 215,000 illegal aliens living in the U.S. were granted legal status during FY 2001. The number of illegal aliens granted permanent residence under adjustment programs such as 245(i) is an additional 970,000, whose cases are still pending.

*One in five people who became legal U.S. residents in FY 2001 were people who had either entered the country illegally, or remained here after the expiration of a temporary visa. (2)

The Center for Immigration Studies estimated in 1995 that immigration costs U.S. taxpayers $29 billion a year, which is more than the combined budgets of the Department of State, Justice and Interior. These costs include both programs targeted toward immigrants, as well as the increased costs of education, health care, and welfare programs that are used by immigrants.

Every state receives immigration. Mississippi, for example, is not known as a "high impact" state. Yet it has the nation’s fastest growing immigration population (up by 476% since 1990). Other states that are newly experiencing large scale immigration settlement include Colorado (up 136%), North Carolina (up 129%), Oregon (up 115%), Nebraska (up 107%), and Utah (up 102%). (3)

Illegal immigrants receive taxpayer support for their U.S. born children, immunizations, subsidized public health and other programs. In many areas, such as education, the federal government gives matching grants for state expenditures, which means paying twice for the cost of immigration.

Between 1990 and 2000, the U.S. population increased by 13.2% (from 248,709,873 to 281,421,906). According to the Census Bureau, this was 1.4 million more persons than were expected.

Between 1980 and 1990 the U.S. population increased by 9.5% (from 227,156,000 to 248,709,873).

The 2000 Census recorded 31,107,573 foreign born residents in the country. That was 11% of the country’s overall population and an increase of 57.4% above the 1990 foreign born population of 19,767,316 residents. The numerical increase in the foreign born population between 1990 – 2000 was 11.3 million, which demonstrates that the average increase over that period has been more than one million per year.


**Breakdown removed due to formatting issues.

Findings from the Center for Immigration Studies concluded from the Census Bureau’s 2000 Current Population Survey (CPS) were:

· 17.6% of all children four years old and younger were born to immigrant mothers.

· 40.1% of immigrants aged 18 and older have become U.S. citizens.

· 44% of immigrants and their children are in poverty or near poverty.

· 30.9% of immigrants and their children do not have health insurance.

· 19.7% of immigrant headed households receive welfare – despite the fact that illegal immigrants are ineligible for welfare.

Costs of Immigration to Taxpayers

Incarceration

Claims by state and local authorities requesting compensation from the federal government in FY 1999 for incarceration expenses of illegal aliens amounted to about $1.5 billion for 25.4 million days (the equivalent of 69,5000 years) of detention. Under the federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP), the states received only 39% of their expenses ($582,734,294). This left the states and local jurisdictions with uncompensated outlays of almost $911 million. In 2000, the Department of Justice ceased releasing such expense data. (3).

In July of 2002, the House Judiciary Committee approved H.R. 1452, named the "Family Reunification Act of 2002," that would permit aliens with criminal records to apply for relief from deportation and allow those who have already been deported to return to the U.S. to press their claims. Under a compromise between the bill’s author, Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), and Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), aliens convicted of aggravated felonies could be permitted to remain in the U.S. HR 1452, in enacted, would reverse the 1996 legislation that made it easier to deport criminal aliens.

Education


At 53.1 million students, U.S. School enrollment is at an all-time high, exceeding even the record set in 1970 by the baby boomers. In the past decade, enrollment increased by 14%. In a recent report by the Foundation for American Immigration Reform, "No Room to Learn: Immigration and School Overcrowding," FAIR finds:

· Without school age immigrants and the children of immigrants, school enrollment would not have increased at all during the last decade.

· One in every five students has an immigrant parent. One-quarter of these children were foreign born themselves.

· Immigration will account for 96% of the future increase in school age population over the next 50 years.

· The Urban Institute estimates that the cost of educating an estimated 800,000 illegal alien school children in the nations seven states with the highest concentration of illegal aliens was $3.1 billion in 1993, an dup to $4.6 billion in 1996. This estimate does not take into account the additional costs of bilingual education or other special educational needs.

Several states, including California and Texas, (the two largest illegal alien populations) have now enacted or have proposed programs that allow illegal alien college students to pay in-state tuition rates.

Taxpayer funded public education for illegal alien children has been required at the primary and secondary level ever since the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Plyer v. Texas in 1982 that such education was required under the equal protection clause of the constitution.

Health Care Costs

Every person born in the United States is an automatic citizen regardless of the status of the parents. Only a few European countries still grant automatic citizenship to newborns.

The 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution as part of the post Civil War reforms aimed at addressing injustices to African Americans. It states, "all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States." However, when the amendment was crafted, the United States had no immigration policy, thus the authors saw no need to state explicitly, what they thought to be understood. The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was intended to exclude from automatic citizenship American born persons whose allegiance to the United States was not complete. In the case of illegal aliens who are temporarily or unlawfully in the United States, but their native country has a claim of allegiance to the child, the completeness of the allegiance to the United States is impaired and logically precludes automatic citizenship.

According to Peter Brimelow, "By not closing this loophole, the federal government in effect rewards law-breakers and punishes those who have chosen to follow the rules and immigrate legally. Allowing illegal aliens to give birth to American citizens, in effect, makes citizenship a license for welfare."(4)

*In 1994, California paid for 74,987 deliveries to illegal alien mothers, at a total cost of $215.2 million (an average of $2,842 per delivery). Illegal alien mothers accounted for 36% of all Medi-Cal funded births in California that year.

Terrorism


Even in light of the fact that all 19 high-jackers of 9/11 were of Middle Eastern descent and the current war on terrorism, the U.S. continues to receive both legal and illegal immigrants from the region. In a newly released report (5), the Census Bureau estimated that perhaps 115,000 people from the Middle Eastern countries live in the United States illegally. These figures do not include North African countries such as Egypt and Algeria, nor does it include Pakistan. Africa as a whole, including Sub-Saharan Africa, accounts for perhaps 243,000 illegals, according to the Census Report.

The Prucol Loophole

Some think that illegal aliens cannot receive welfare benefits, but they can, as a result of a provision known as PRUCOL (Permanently Residing Under the Color of Law). PRUCOL means a status that has the appearance of, but not the status of, a legal right. That is not a status created by legislation, but a status created by the courts, which cannot Constitutionally make law.

This designation, created by federal agencies in conjunction with the courts, applies to four federal programs to determine whether an illegal alien is eligible for benefits:

Aid to Families with Dependant Children (AFDC);
Supplemental Security Income (SSI);
Medicaid, and
Unemployment Insurance benefits.
Examples of illegal aliens who might qualify as PRUCOL include:

Aliens who have been here more than twenty years;

Aliens who have been granted stays of deportation by the courts;

Aliens who are not being deported because of U.S. citizen children;

Aliens whom, for political reasons, the government is not deporting (such as Salvadorans and Cubans). (6)


References:

United States Census Bureau, 2002 Census Report
Federation for American Immigration Reform, News release # 07412209.
Federation for American Immigration Reform, News release # 042us604.
Peter Brimelow, National Review, April 7, 1997.
Center for Immigration Studies report: Census Bureau: Over 100,000 Illegal Aliens From the Middle East, January 22, 2002
Federation for American Immigration Reform, Issue Brief #04107604.

Copyright © 2002 The Junto Society - All rights reserved. Permission to reprint granted provided a link to this site [http://www.juntosociety.com] is plainly accompanying the article.
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