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Posted: 3/8/2005 8:23:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2005 1:38:38 PM EST by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:27:40 AM EST
ah the joys of retail in a market filled with cheapskates
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:30:38 AM EST
Correct me if I am wrong, but if something is shipped to you that you didn't pay for, can't you just say to the person, "Yeah, I received that this morning. Thanks for the free gun. Now piss off."
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:31:04 AM EST
Educated++
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:31:50 AM EST
Do you still do the deal where anyone can have a free transfer, as long as you get to kick them once in the beanbag?

Kharn
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:34:57 AM EST
fine, i'll give you $26 for that USP.......................
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:35:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:35:53 AM EST
So charge them $100* for the 'transfer' and be done with it.

* - whatever you determine to be your cost for them to use your FFL.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:38:18 AM EST
Im in at $401!!

Good for you!! I think I need to print this one and give it to a buddy of mine who is an FFL. I think he will ove it!!

Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:38:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:40:27 AM EST


Originally posted by SteyrAUG:
And when I'm done driving them crazy with "Oh I think we sold that" or "I think some guy named Fred picked it up already" I will give them 2 options:

1. They may purcahse the item at full retail (I normally don't sell that high but these guys have earned it).

2. I can turn over the entire matter of them trying to make purchases on my FFL to FDLE and ATF (again not something I normally do but these guys have earned it).



Good on you for nailing these guys, but I
have a question about the pracitice above:
isn't this blackmail? "Buy the gun at this
price or I turn your ass over to the feds."
Wouldn't you be better served by just dropping
a dime on them?

The feds might not look kindly on that kindof
quid-pro-quo.


Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:41:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 8:42:19 AM EST by motown_steve]
Is that a full size USP?

I'll give you $450!
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:41:43 AM EST
you know whats funny, MY gun dealer i deal with did the opsite to me the other day on my last purchase. they were swamed i caled them like i normal do to see about somthing they dont sotck, they told me were on these list find what you want ship it to us. we will do it as a transfer. i was freaking out. i was so nervious when i ordred, it didnt seem right. i have a C&R so i know how some of the wholesellers work, but i was still not happy doing it. it just didnt seem right.

i have no idea how somebody could do that to a dealer, all i ask is the dealer be kind to me and treat me with respect they will get my biz. i buy around 10-12 guns a year. i would much rather just deal with 1 person than a crap load of whole sellers, what happens if somthign wrong the whole seller isnt going be your freind. you need your dealer.

SteyrAUG, you seem like a great guy, i would kill to have a dealer like you in my neck of the woods. the asshats need to come to were i live were the closest dealer is a hour and half away.

Ronald
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:43:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:43:38 AM EST
shit, looks like i lost the USP auction
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:44:53 AM EST

Do deliveries like this have any way of identifying the person who ordered it? Do they get anyway to identify the gun? The reason I'm asking is that it appears they may have no proof they even ordered it. So how can you in good conscience take their word for it that they ordered it?

So if they take the retail option you gave them, it means they pay the FFL cost the sent in + retail(FFL+ Markup). OUCH expensive lesson.

The last time I special ordered a gun it went something like this
I went into the FFL store and asked transfer price. I got two prices, one if I did all of the work and paid directly to the wholesaler, and one if he tracked down the gun and ordered it. The FFL gave me instructions on how to request the gun be shipped so my name appeared on the label so he knew who ordered it.

I tracked the gun in transit and the day after it arrived I went in and watched him open the package, I checked the gun out and paid him the fees, we did our respective paperwork at the same time and I was out in about 30 minutes. I would have been out sooner but I ordered a repro Sharps 1874 and everone inthe store wanted to see it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:45:47 AM EST
Steyr, couple of questions here

Is this (what the "customer" is doing) illegal?

Shouldn't you be obligated to report that actions instead of letting them have the gun as if they ordered with your OK?
I know the final outcome is the same, but couldn't you get in trouble for doing that?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:47:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 8:47:31 AM EST by TheRedHorseman]
I've special ordered a few firearms, but I always get permission first.

mainly because if I ran a gun shop, I'd do this exact thing
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:47:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:47:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally posted by SteyrAUG:
And when I'm done driving them crazy with "Oh I think we sold that" or "I think some guy named Fred picked it up already" I will give them 2 options:

1. They may purcahse the item at full retail (I normally don't sell that high but these guys have earned it).

2. I can turn over the entire matter of them trying to make purchases on my FFL to FDLE and ATF (again not something I normally do but these guys have earned it).



Good on you for nailing these guys, but I
have a question about the pracitice above:
isn't this blackmail? "Buy the gun at this
price or I turn your ass over to the feds."
Wouldn't you be better served by just dropping
a dime on them?

The feds might not look kindly on that kindof
quid-pro-quo.





Nope, not blackmail.

They didn't have ANY prior arrangement with me so retail is the "after the fact" price.

If they don't like it, I simply turn the matter over to people better suited to dealing with these guys.



Shit, If I were you I wouldn't even give 'em option number 1. I'd sell it to someone else just to spite them.

They used YOUR license to ILLEGALLY buy guns and literally take food off of your table. I'd say selling their gun would be a great way to send a message. I wouldn't even reward a cheat like that by letting them get the gun at any price.

What are they gonna do call the cops?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:48:41 AM EST
Does that mean I'm not getting my HK?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:49:38 AM EST
Heck no. They ordered without your permission and they get whatever you want to do to them.

I had the exact opposite problem with a local FFL store. I wanted them to order a gun for me and I would just buy it from them. I told them 10% mark-up would be fine, and I would pay in advance.

They tried to order me to call up and pay for it off my CC, have it delivered to them, and they would then charge me the 10%. They were also rude as hell.

I went elsewhere to a nicer FFL, and she only marked me up 5%. It was a long hike to drive out there, but worth it.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:49:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 8:51:37 AM EST by NewbHunter]
Hey, I've been wondering when my USP would be delivered to you. It's already paid for and everything, so do you mind if I come and pick it up later today?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:50:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Nope, not blackmail.

They didn't have ANY prior arrangement with me so retail is the "after the fact" price.

If they don't like it, I simply turn the matter over to people better suited to dealing with these guys.



Fair enough.

I'm not sure that I would announce this
practice in a public forum, but it is your
business. Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:51:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:57:22 AM EST
Seen it happen around here to. I always ask first and look at my dealers books and they usually charge me wholesale cost +shipping +$20 fee for their time.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:58:02 AM EST
I love "True Stories of the FFL." It makes me appreciate the two FFLs I deal with. Thanks, SteryAUG. Keep 'em coming.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 8:59:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:


I'm not sure that I would announce this
practice in a public forum, but it is your
business. Good luck.

What's wrong with announcing it? Now everyone knows not to use that "asshole dealer" in Florida to move their "at cost " transactions through!
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:00:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:01:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 9:03:42 AM EST by AssaultRifler]
I've the done the same thing, the gun mfgr had my dealer's FFL on file, but I called the FFL holder first and got permission and the ok to ship the gun to them and the agreement to do the transfer for $30. I got wholesale prices, avoided a regressive state sales tax, gun shop got a free and easy $30, and I got my gun. everyone was happy all around except the state Dept of Revenue.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:03:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:06:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 9:10:52 AM EST by A-nus]
I do it all the time, if my guy's don't have what i want, and i do all the leg work why should i pay my ffl holder more than his transfer fee.

I always call first and ok it with them, i pay the tax's on it.

And none of my ffl holders have a problem with it, I'm up front with them as to what i'm doing, It makes their life easier.

Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:12:46 AM EST
My FFL takes pretty good care of me. He knows my tastes and really doesn't deal with that kind of thing a whole lot. He told me to just find it and order it and he charges me for the transfer. He gives me signed FFLs whenever I want them.

When I want something that he sells or needs to order for me I pay full price, don't quibble over price and try to buy things in his store even though it is more expensive than other places. I also take good care of him and his employees when they come in with med problems.

He is happy to have my business and I am happy to give it to him. The good will he generates in taking care of me gets him more business from me and plenty of referrals. He keeps trying to sell me his shop though.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:14:55 AM EST
Excellent! I see my HK USP45 made it. I'll be by to pick it up this evening...by the way, it's a pre-paid special order...so I owe you nothing.


Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:19:13 AM EST
How can he/ it order on your FFL without your approval? Do they run down a list of local FFL's until they find one on file w/wholesaler? And why would any w'saler send a gun without the dealer saying to send it?

I'm in retail, and like you I get mucho pissed at people trying to get something over on me.

btw, I'll go $200.00 in cash for the USP. Will you do a free tranfer?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:19:59 AM EST
I'm always reluctant to ask a dealer if they can handle an incoming transfer. Having worked for dealers large and small I know they don't make a lot on transfers alone.

I usually ask if they can order me what I want. If they can't THEN I ask about a transfer.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:29:11 AM EST
People never cease to amaze me. 3 years of selling cars has done nothing to improve my view of humanity.

I used to think that people just acted stupid when buying cars. After reading Steyr's FFL stories, I realize its how they conduct themselves in all aspects of life.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:32:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
I love "True Stories of the FFL." It makes me appreciate the two FFLs I deal with. Thanks, SteryAUG. Keep 'em coming.


+1 These are great! I always love seeing a new one posted, since I know that it's quality entertainment!
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:33:47 AM EST
My local FFL takes very good care of me and in turn I do as much business there as possible. I've also gotten to the point where I show up with my envolope already filled out and print outs of my emails. We fill out the FFL paperwork together, stick the outgoing copy in the envolope, take my copy and drop the FFL (and usually my payment) in the mail on my way out the door. I've heard too many horror stories with FFLs so let's take care of the ones that take care of us!
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:36:51 AM EST
The transfer thing is pretty easy to do really. CDNN, for instance, has the local FFL I use for transfers on file. All I have to do is call up CDNN, pay them, and have the gun shipped to my local FFL simple as pie.

But I am ALWAYS certain to make sure the local FFL knows what I am doing and that I have prior approval. The last thing I want is to have them get confused and sell my paid for gun to someone else.

Plus, I am also not a complete rat bastard.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:42:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/8/2005 9:44:30 AM EST by ASUsax]
That sucks.

HOWEVER, I have dealt with a gunshop that, if you want something they don't carry, they just hand you the wholesalers catalog and tell you to call them and bring back the catalog.

I actually don't like to deal with them, though. But I typically don't get transfers, either. ETA: The reason that I don't like dealing with them is they modify AK's and SKS's... And don't know the rules for doing so - parts count, etc. I'm convinced they're going to get shut down sooner or later, so it's not anyplace I want to 'order' something.

Oh, and I'm in for that USP at $475...
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:49:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:52:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:54:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By A-nus:
I do it all the time, if my guy's don't have what i want, and i do all the leg work why should i pay my ffl holder more than his transfer fee.

I always call first and ok it with them, i pay the tax's on it.

And none of my ffl holders have a problem with it, I'm up front with them as to what i'm doing, It makes their life easier.


Do you also take your own eggs and bacon to the restaurant and pay them a "transfer fee" to cook them?
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 9:59:09 AM EST
SteyrAUG, I guess you would have a third option as well. You could just refuse the shipment and send it back. Then when the customer shows up explain that it was refused because you did not order it and it was not an approved transfer. Anyway, sounds like an opportunity to have a little fun, let us know how it turns out.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 10:00:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By A-nus:
I do it all the time, if my guy's don't have what i want, and i do all the leg work why should i pay my ffl holder more than his transfer fee.

I always call first and ok it with them, i pay the tax's on it.

And none of my ffl holders have a problem with it, I'm up front with them as to what i'm doing, It makes their life easier.




Because YOU are not a FFL and therefore not entitled to FFL pricing. That is why those ads say "FFL Prices Only."

But if you have a local FFL that is cool selling guns at cost plus a transfer then that is none of my concern. That is how "they" choose to run "their" business.



Well actually ive called gander mountain and if you can find the weapon at ffl price they will except the weapon and transfer it just for the transfer cost($25). Even if its cheaper than thier price. Given they should talk it over with you first. Thats just plain curtesy. But i dont see how double charging someone for thier weapon is the right thing to do.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 10:02:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 10:05:13 AM EST
SteyrAUG, surely you can tell us some hilarious stories of what these bastards have said when confronted? I'd love to hear about some enraged asshole who thinks YOU are the prick. Do tell....I'll throw some popcorn in the microwave.
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 10:05:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 10:08:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/8/2005 10:13:46 AM EST
Interesting post Steyr, i've never even thought of people being able to do that. I take it most guys take the choice of paying full retail for the guns?


Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

If Gander Mountain "chooses" to run "their" business like that then that is "their" business. My FFL is not a public license. Nobody is entitled to use it.



This is the key, Steyr is free to conduct his business any way he wants.
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