One of the funniest aspects of the gun business are the many unauthorized purchase agents every gun dealer has and the resulting "mystery packages."

A good one arrived today. One NIB HK USP45.



Basically these are guys who feel that because they have a Shotgun News, a phone and a credit card that they are entitled to FFL "dealer" prices. Nevermind that technicality about those prices requiring a "FFL" to place the order.

Here is their basic MO.

1. They find a gun advertised by a wholesaler in SGN that they would like. They call to order it on "their" credit card (occassioanlly trying to bust the balls of major whoelsalers in an attempt to buy below the FFL price).

2. When the wholesaler/distributor asks for their FFL, they run down their laundry list of local gunshops/dealers knowing that most will be "on file" with the major wholesalers. Currently the more reputable wholesalers/distributors will request the FFL number (or an assigned account number) to prevent this and will not accept credit card payment from anyone other than the approved buyers on the account.

3. Then they track the shipment with the tracking number until it is delivered. After which they show up out of the blue to pick up "their gun." They hope in the basic confusion (and this is why they prefer large gunshops) that the dealer or employee will simply assume it is an "approved" transfer and will charge some token fee to cover the background check and FDLE fees, or even better will assume it was a pre paid special order.

What they are hoping for is some confused person who basically says something like 'Well yeah we checked that one in today and you don't seem to owe us anything so let me get the 4473 started and call you in..." and BINGO one gun bought AT dealer price without the hassle and cost of actually being a FFL.

Well here is my MO.

1. I personally check in every single delivery. I don't care if I end up logging in guns at 2am.

2. I keep separate files for orders "I" placed and "approved" transfers from the many collectors who are my customers.

3. As soon as I check in a gun I immediately match it with the order I placed or the approved request for "transfer."

And if I don't have either of those. Then the gun is an unrequested delivery that I may sell since it was ordered on MY FFL.

When they ask where "their gun" is I give them a confused reply like "Oh yeah, we didn't know what the hell that was. That supplier keeps sending us stuff we didn't order and we complained so we figured he sent us that gun to smooth things over and it sold pretty fast actually."

Or "No it can't be YOUR GUN because we don't have a record of ordering anything for you. Do you have a copy of the special order form?" So we'll have to look into what became of it because I DON'T know.

Rather than get pissed off at these guys (because there are simply too many and you will have a heart attack) you have to see them as a source of potential entertainment.

Keeping in mind that they are actively attempting to undermine your business and operate on your FFL without your approval they should be treated accordingly. That means doing everything they DON'T want you to do. Mostly keep them from pulling the "FFL Scam" off successfully. It is kinda like replying to the Nigerian Scam with bogus bank account information and making them go through the motions for NOTHING.

And when I'm done driving them crazy with "Oh I think we sold that" or "I think some guy named Fred picked it up already" I will give them 2 options:

1. They may purchase the item at full retail (I normally don't sell that high but these guys have earned it).

2. I can turn over the entire matter of them trying to make purchases on my FFL to FDLE and ATF (again not something I normally do but these guys have earned it).

Now sure as shit some guy who see's the above as an acceptable practice is gonna come along and cry about how I should just transfer the gun, be happys to make $25.00 (or less) and stop whinning about my customers. But these ARE NOT my customers, these are scam artists who are trying to undermine my business and operate on MY LICENSE.

And these same guys, if someone came along and tried to scam product from THEIR business, would be the first ones to cry foul and call the cops to report the "theft."

Ahhh the gun biz, you won't get rich but it does entertain.

Quoted: Do you still do the deal where anyone can have a free transfer, as long as you get to kick them once in the beanbag? Kharn

We only do the "nad kick" special around the holidays.

Quoted: So charge them $100* for the 'transfer' and be done with it. * - whatever you determine to be your cost for them to use your FFL.

And when I'm done driving them crazy with "Oh I think we sold that" or "I think some guy named Fred picked it up already" I will give them 2 options:

1. They may purchase the item at full retail (I normally don't sell that high but these guys have earned it).

2. I can turn over the entire matter of them trying to make purchases on my FFL to FDLE and ATF (again not something I normally do but these guys have earned it).

Quoted: Quoted: And when I'm done driving them crazy with "Oh I think we sold that" or "I think some guy named Fred picked it up already" I will give them 2 options: 1. They may purcahse the item at full retail (I normally don't sell that high but these guys have earned it). 2. I can turn over the entire matter of them trying to make purchases on my FFL to FDLE and ATF (again not something I normally do but these guys have earned it). Good on you for nailing these guys, but I have a question about the pracitice above: isn't this blackmail? "Buy the gun at this price or I turn your ass over to the feds." Wouldn't you be better served by just dropping a dime on them? The feds might not look kindly on that kindof quid-pro-quo.

Nope, not blackmail.

They didn't have ANY prior arrangement with me so retail is the "after the fact" price.

If they don't like it, I simply turn the matter over to people better suited to dealing with these guys.

Quoted: you know whats funny, MY gun dealer i deal with did the opsite to me the other day on my last purchase. they were swamed i caled them like i normal do to see about somthing they dont sotck, they told me were on these list find what you want ship it to us. we will do it as a transfer. i was freaking out. i was so nervious when i ordred, it didnt seem right. i have a C&R so i know how some of the wholesellers work, but i was still not happy doing it. it just didnt seem right. i have no idea how somebody could do that to a dealer, all i ask is the dealer be kind to me and treat me with respect they will get my biz. i buy around 10-12 guns a year. i would much rather just deal with 1 person than a crap load of whole sellers, what happens if somthign wrong the whole seller isnt going be your freind. you need your dealer. SteyrAUG, you seem like a great guy, i would kill to have a dealer like you in my neck of the woods. the asshats need to come to were i live were the closest dealer is a hour and half away. Ronald

And that is really the key. To have made a prior arrangement with the dealer.

I deal with mostly repeat customers / collectors and transfer stuff all the time for them. I even receive a lot of guns for some local arfcommers who like to bargain hunt. But they all make prior arrangements with me to receive the guns and that is more important to me than $25.00.

Quoted: Steyr, couple of questions here Is this (what the "customer" is doing) illegal? Shouldn't you be obligated to report that actions instead of letting them have the gun as if they ordered with your OK? I know the final outcome is the same, but couldn't you get in trouble for doing that?

Probably illegal and at my discretion to report it. But IF I did it is possible they would be convicted of a firearms related crime and all that entails. Looking at possible loss of gun rights and the whole nine yards so it's not my first option. Almost nobody deserves to have their pee pee smacked that hard.

Squaring them away so they don't try and pull that shit in the future (because these guys are usually hard headed) is another matter.

Quoted: Quoted: Nope, not blackmail. They didn't have ANY prior arrangement with me so retail is the "after the fact" price. If they don't like it, I simply turn the matter over to people better suited to dealing with these guys. Fair enough. I'm not sure that I would announce this practice in a public forum, but it is your business. Good luck.

If people choose not to do business with me because of how I conduct myself when dealing with scam artists who seek to undermine my business then I completely respect their decision.

Quite honestly I have a large base of repeat customers/collectors who keep me in black ink every month. I'd much prefer to deal with them and new customers/collectors like them, than endure anyone who is seeking to pull a "fast one."

And I've never modified my views, opinions or beliefs out of fear of harming potential sales. I'd rather be honest with myself than make a dollar.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure that I would announce this practice in a public forum, but it is your business. Good luck. What's wrong with announcing it?  Now everyone knows not to use that "asshole dealer" in Florida to move their "at cost " transactions through!

Yup, find another sucker.

Quoted: I do it all the time, if my guy's don't have what i want, and i do all the leg work why should i pay my ffl holder more than his transfer fee.   I always call first and ok it with them, i pay the tax's on it. And none of my ffl holders have a problem with it, I'm up front with them as to what i'm doing, It makes their life easier.

Because YOU are not a FFL and therefore not entitled to FFL pricing. That is why those ads say "FFL Prices Only."

But if you have a local FFL that is cool selling guns at cost plus a transfer then that is none of my concern. That is how "they" choose to run "their" business.

Quoted: Quoted: I love "True Stories of the FFL." It makes me appreciate the two FFLs I deal with. Thanks, SteryAUG. Keep 'em coming. +1 These are great! I always love seeing a new one posted, since I know that it's quality entertainment!

And that really is what the focus should be. If nothing else these people are hilarious. I only bring tales of their audacity for the mutual enjoyment of this forum. The fact that a few guys who feel they too are entitled to FFL pricing because they have a SGN only ads to the entertainment value of the post.

Quoted: SteyrAUG, I guess you would have a third option as well. You could just refuse the shipment and send it back. Then when the customer shows up explain that it was refused because you did not order it and it was not an approved transfer.  Anyway, sounds like an opportunity to have a little fun, let us know how it turns out.

Quite often I don't know what it is until I open it. I get a LOT of deliveries.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I do it all the time, if my guy's don't have what i want, and i do all the leg work why should i pay my ffl holder more than his transfer fee.   I always call first and ok it with them, i pay the tax's on it. And none of my ffl holders have a problem with it, I'm up front with them as to what i'm doing, It makes their life easier. Because YOU are not a FFL and therefore not entitled to FFL pricing. That is why those ads say "FFL Prices Only." But if you have a local FFL that is cool selling guns at cost plus a transfer then that is none of my concern. That is how "they" choose to run "their" business. Well actually ive called gander mountain and if you can find the weapon at ffl price they will except the weapon and transfer it just for the transfer cost($25). Even if its cheaper than thier price. Given they should talk it over with you first. Thats just plain curtesy. But i dont see how double charging someone for thier weapon is the right thing to do.

If Gander Mountain "chooses" to run "their" business like that then that is "their" business. My FFL is not a public license. Nobody is entitled to use it.

If you ran your own business and I tried to scam some product out of you "at cost" I can assure you that you would have a different attitude.

Quoted: SteyrAUG, surely you can tell us some hilarious stories of what these bastards have said when confronted?  I'd love to hear about some enraged asshole who thinks YOU are the prick.  Do tell....I'll throw some popcorn in the microwave.

When the archives become available do a search for "True Tales Of THe FFL." Best one was probably the kid who failed his background check and insisted I was trying to "steal" his AK because he already paid for it and I wouldn't give it to him.