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Posted: 8/2/2003 9:20:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 9:21:59 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:25:17 AM EDT
But SteyrAUG!!  All it would take is 5 seconds of your time!  The gall of you ripping off some little kids like that!

What are you in bbusiness for??  ARe you trying to make a profit or something??

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:29:18 AM EDT
Why don't you quit making excuses and just give the kid his damn rifle?
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:29:41 AM EDT
Really simple.  Call the cops and explain to them what is going on while the kid is there.  Then let the cops arrest him for attempting to make a straw purchase and violate federal firearms regulations.  Then keep the rifle in your stock room. (give him a written notice before the cops haul him off in cuffs that he has 30 days and the property will become forfeit)  Then, when his 30 days are up, sell the gun for almost pure profit.  If this kid is that damn stupid and wants to put your license/lively hood at risk, let him learn the hard way.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:29:42 AM EDT
Crap like this is H&R Block Reason #37 that I am no longer a FFL dealer as of yesterday, August 1st.  IMHO you were WAY more patient with that little shit of a loser than you could have been.  A star in your crown 'till you're better paid.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:32:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:35:07 AM EDT
and then I read the rest of the story.....,<shakes head>
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:37:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:40:15 AM EDT
You could just keep the rifle and tell the kid to pound sand for giving you so much shit.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:44:09 AM EDT
some people are just stupid-like him.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:46:42 AM EDT
Now I remember why a few years ago, when I was considering applying for a FFL, I decided against it!

Ordering a firearm on someone's FFL without asking is one of the absolute worst things you can do to tee off a FFL.  Talking about, what in effect, is a straw purchase with the dealer is stupidity for sure also.

I don't know of any FFLs in my area that will transfer from a wholesaler, and if the dealer deals with their own wholesaler for the same weapon, it's a slap in the face to the dealer for the customer to come in holding an add with a cheaper price demanding the dealer order it for him from where the customer wants it from.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:07:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:18:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:


I don't know of any FFLs in my area that will transfer from a wholesaler, and if the dealer deals with their own wholesaler for the same weapon, it's a slap in the face to the dealer for the customer to come in holding an add with a cheaper price demanding the dealer order it for him from where the customer wants it from.




Thats strange, in my area most will order what you want and just charge the xfer fee.

There have been many times I go into a shop with an ad and say "I have been looking all over for one of these and just cant find one. Can you find one if not is it possible for you to order one from here?"

And they dont seeem to mind at all.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:35:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 10:37:07 AM EDT by Boom_Stick]
AUGman, he planned to manipulate you from the get-go cause he was perfectly aware of his record.  He was just hoping to get around the "difficulty" of getting a rifle, through you.  

Thats why he reacted the way he did, like a brat who didn't get what he wanted, or rather it didn't go how he expected.

Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:47:54 AM EDT
The 19 yo sounds like he isn't fit to own a firearm, considering his personality. SteyrAUG, you did your part to keep one out of his hands. Sorry about your expenses. I wonder if other FFL's will do as you did.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 11:00:36 AM EDT
So how does your new rifle shoot
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 12:14:22 PM EDT
How much ya want for it?
AB
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 12:24:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
The 19 yo sounds like he isn't fit to own a firearm, considering his personality. SteyrAUG, you did your part to keep one out of his hands. Sorry about your expenses. I wonder if other FFL's will do as you did.



Exactly my thoughts.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 12:40:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PsyWarrior:
Really simple.  Call the cops and explain to them what is going on while the kid is there.  Then let the cops arrest him for attempting to make a straw purchase and violate federal firearms regulations.  Then keep the rifle in your stock room. (give him a written notice before the cops haul him off in cuffs that he has 30 days and the property will become forfeit)  Then, when his 30 days are up, sell the gun for almost pure profit.  If this kid is that damn stupid and wants to put your license/lively hood at risk, let him learn the hard way.

O.M.G.! A psychic among us!!!
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 12:55:57 PM EDT
So, will you transfer it to my local FFL for $25.00, just to get rid of it? I'll even cover the shipping.....
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:03:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:13:50 PM EDT
Well I read this expecting another whiney bitch session about how hard it is and blah blah blah , but I agree with you 100% on this. Good job.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:28:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:31:28 PM EDT
OK, how about $50?
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 1:49:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Rickyj:
Well I read this expecting another whiney bitch session about how hard it is and blah blah blah , but I agree with you 100% on this. Good job.



Oh good, now I can sleep tonight.



You sure can be a sarcastic ass when you want to.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 2:04:41 PM EDT
the correct response is "So sue me.  Have your lawyer serve the papers here.  Free legal advice and last you get.  All my costs are included in my winnings.  Ask your lawyer about that.  Have a nice day."
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 2:07:05 PM EDT



Way too funny.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 2:07:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U:

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:


I don't know of any FFLs in my area that will transfer from a wholesaler, and if the dealer deals with their own wholesaler for the same weapon, it's a slap in the face to the dealer for the customer to come in holding an add with a cheaper price demanding the dealer order it for him from where the customer wants it from.




Thats strange, in my area most will order what you want and just charge the xfer fee.

There have been many times I go into a shop with an ad and say "I have been looking all over for one of these and just cant find one. Can you find one if not is it possible for you to order one from here?"

And they dont seeem to mind at all.



You're lucky.  Around here there are shops that won't even do transfers unless the gun is an "antique", (their words).  Needless to say, I don't shop there.  Others will only order something out for you if the product is discontinued or their wholesalers don't carry it.
I've found other "home ffls", that have been less than reliable.  I'm still searching for a close dealer that will do transfers for a flat fee if I ever see anything unusual on the EE board, Gunbroker, Auction Arms, etc.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 2:32:26 PM EDT
damn.....so, what supplier sold this to him w/out a back ground check?  This seems questionable.....shouldn't there be some legal action towards them?


-HS
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 2:54:39 PM EDT
If a background check is required it is done by the dealer who is transferring the firearm not by the distributor.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 3:20:09 PM EDT
rkbar15,


thanks.   That said.   I would definately confront this distributor....dealing with this type of BS is  a waste of your time and money.

that kid is a ass.

-HS
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 3:28:50 PM EDT
Thank's for the story Steyr, as an FFL dealer it's always nice to hear how someone handled a problem like this. Next time I mail out FFL's I'll include a note that any/all third party orders require prior approval of the FFL holder. Some online distributers will give you a local dealer who's FFL they have on file, all the buyer need do is enter his zipcode. I wouldn't have let him off the hook for the $5 NICS fee, getting a call tag from the dist is a good idea. What's going to be funny is if he has a felony record, there is a good chance that BATF is going to come pick his ass up. A guy in a town not far from me tried to buy a surplus hunting rifle, I think a  Enfield from his local dealer and got declined on the FDLE check. He had a prior arrest for marryJ possession some years ago. He had his rights restored so he thought and went to the courthouse to get a copy of his records stating such. Well his voting rights were restored...... Anyway, as a result of the NICS check, BATF tracked him down and arrested him. The guy had become a model citizen since his arrest, local cops even testified on his behalf, tough shit. He got 5 years in club Fed for lying on a 4473. Be sure you flag that 4473 because I'm willing to bet BATF will want to see it soon.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:05:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 5:09:37 PM EDT by AR-15Fan]
Are you a dealer with a stocked store?  If not the couple "kitchen table" FFLs around here just do a standard "Transfer" on new items ordered for $20-$30.  Not like there is much difference whether it's a true transfer and if it's ordered...  I don't and wouldn't pay markup from a "kitchen table" dealer.  Course I also wouldn't have a gun shipped to an FFL I hadn't talked to before and worked out the money side prior to ordering either...  

Pretty big moron to try to buy it if he knew he had a felony or whatever on file.  Bet he really did think he was fine to buy one...
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:43:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
He had his rights restored so he thought and went to the courthouse to get a copy of his records stating such. Well his voting rights were restored...... Anyway, as a result of the NICS check, BATF tracked him down and arrested him. The guy had become a model citizen since his arrest, local cops even testified on his behalf, tough shit. He got 5 years in club Fed for lying on a 4473.



5 years, huh? Boy, that's long enough to ruin a man but not long enough to make him forget who did it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 5:54:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 6:20:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The only dealers still doing $20 transfers on guns from wholesalers are NOT making their money from gun sales but in some other way.


You're right.  The FFL I deal with is willing to do transfers for $25 from wholesalers.  However, I bet she makes a killing on range fees since the only maintenance cost is replacing the cheap wood target stands whenever they get shot to hell.


NRA Life Member
GOA Life Member
SAF Supporter
SAS Supporter
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 6:45:30 PM EDT
He has a Plan. He wants to know if his Mom...can come pick up the gun...

You're a stronger man than most, SA. Half of us would have caved right there. Or at least stumbled and requested a pic before proceeding.


cynic
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 9:31:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
If you need a FFL to qualify for that dealer price, you cannot get it without the FFL. If you want the FFL dealer price then do what I did and pull a FFL.

If it is s private transaction and you DON'T need a FFL to be eligible for the price you paid, then that is a "transfer."





Is splitting hairs your hobby?


If I want a firearm that you don't stock, and I do the research to locate one, why should you profit from my purchase?  

Most of us spend more on accessories and ammo than actual firearms purchases, and the FFL that does my transfers gets the majority of my business on those purchases. I'm pretty sure that the markup on accessories is better than on most firearms, so what is better for you in the long run?
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:43:01 PM EDT
Wow Steyr, u are one patient dude. :)
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 10:54:49 PM EDT
I like these threads.  I learn from them.

I'm no FFL... most of the guns me and my family buy end up going thru transfers(local dealer won't have one in stock and I don't want to wait for an order to show up).  Before I read this post, I probably wouldn't have thought twice about buying a gun from a non-wholesaler that had the local FFL on file without checking with them first.

Live and learn
Link Posted: 8/2/2003 11:57:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2003 11:58:39 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 5:38:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2003 5:40:08 AM EDT by raven]
I've dealt with some pretty stupid FFL's, or at least their dirthead flunkies.

3 years ago I called up a local dealer to do a transfer.  I had contacted the seller, told him to wait from my FFL.  So I called up my FFL, he started taking the info over the phone.  After a week, the seller asked when the FFL was going to call.  I called up my gunstore, asked about the order.  The girl starts reading back the order....just about EVERY PIECE OF INFORMATION I GAVE OVER THE PHONE (all phone numbers, addresses, my name, the seller's name, state's initials, town's name, business names) everything I gave a week earlier was completely wrong.  I could hardly believe it.  I drove to the store and read the form.  It was filled out in a barely legible scrawl, with everything misspelled. I asked who took my order, this tall 18 or 19 year old dude in a boonie hat comes out.  The fucker was borderline retarded, and this was their clerk. Unreal.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 5:51:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slash:


If I want a firearm that you don't stock, and I do the research to locate one, why should you profit from my purchase?  





Because an FFL is NOT, I repeat NOT a governmental, not for profit charitable entity???



Geez.



Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:18:56 AM EDT
And your FFL is not, I repeat is not, a license to steal.  

I don't mind paying a $20 "Transfer Fee", but anything more on most transactions is pure BS. Hell, my FFL even does many of my transfers for free.  He knows that I support him, and that when I need something, he is my first call.  He also understands that if he doesn't have what I want in stock, I'll go elsewhere, but I always come back to him for the accessories/ammo.

That said, I wouldn't dream of placing an order before making arrangements with my FFL.  
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 6:34:47 AM EDT
An FFL is not a license to steal, but like anybody else an FFL can charge whatever the market will bear.  If SteyrAUG will not do $20 transfers, that is his choice.  You can bet there is a another local FFL, who is a gun dealer just as a sideline, who will.  This is why being an FFL is not a good business, because so many enthusiasts are willing to do it for nothing just because they like it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:21:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Slash:
And your FFL is not, I repeat is not, a license to steal.  

 



Unless that FFL is forcing you at gun point to deal ONLY with him, he ain't stealing.

You can CHOOSE not to do business with said FFL.

Maybe you are too poor to afford guns, and should choose a cheaper hobby ....like pet rocks.

They are free.



Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:35:05 PM EDT
Kid sounds like hes been sheltered all his life by his parents and doesn't know the difference in right and wrong. He's also stupid for calling you and telling you about the straw deal. You probably just saved some kids life by not releasing it to him (even though you couldn't have...) It's also really shitty that he didn't at least call and ask if he could have someone mailed into your shop and not only that he copped an attitude with you. I would have told him you have 30 days to get it squared away and I'm sending it back. If you've got a problem call the cops or the BBB. He's a headache you don't need.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:48:52 PM EDT
By your definition then, I guess that the chairmen of Enron weren't stealing either. Right? After all, they weren't holding anyone at gunpoint.

Maybe you are a proctologist?

Actually, the Federal Government is the real thief.  Unconstitutional laws force dealers to pay for unnecessary licenses. The same laws restrict the ability of law-abiding citizens to purchase firearms.  The end result is the government interfering with free trade & commerce.

Seriously, some of you guys need to lighten up.

Link Posted: 8/27/2003 7:56:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Slash:

Seriously, some of you guys need to lighten up.





Hey, I'm NOT the guy throwing around accusations of others being thiefs.

Link Posted: 8/27/2003 8:10:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:
Maybe you are too poor to afford guns, and should choose a cheaper hobby ....like pet rocks.

They are free.



No, you only called me a 'rock collector'.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 8:20:56 PM EDT
i love these kinds of posts!
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