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Posted: 11/4/2009 11:32:36 AM EST
I'm gonna say good shoot on this one...



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bal-trooper1104,0,7624220.story

Trooper shoots man who police say was throwing rocks at cars
Incident closes portion of westbound Route 40 in Cecil Co. for several hours

10:37 a.m. EST, November 4, 2009

A state trooper shot a 50-year-old man who police said threw large rocks at motorists Tuesday evening in Cecil County and claimed to have a gun when confronted.
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center, was in serious condition at Maryland Shock Trauma Center in Baltimore after the incident, which prompted the closure of a portion of westbound Route 40 for several hours, according to police.

Troopers at the state police North East Barracks received reports from three motorists about 6:15 p.m. that their cars had been hit by large rocks thrown from the side of the road by a man on Route 40 west of Red Toad Road. One driver who stopped to confront the man told police that the suspect pulled a gun from his waistband.

Two troopers found Patterson walking east on Route 40, with one hand in his pocket and an American flag in the other hand, according to police. Patterson threw rocks at them, breaking the driver's side window of one patrol car, police said. Patterson was ordered to surrender but kept repeating that he was going to meet "J.C.," according to police.

As a North East police officer armed with a Taser warned Patterson that he would use the device, the suspect lunged at Trooper First Class James L. Parker, 28, who fired his Beretta .40-caliber pistol, striking Patterson in the upper torso, police said. The North East officer also fired his Taser at Patterson, police said.

Parker, a state trooper of more than three years, has been placed on administrative leave, a routine procedure during police-involved shooting investigations. Police said they did not find a gun on Patterson, but they were continuing to search the area.

Police planned to charge Patterson pending his release from the hospital. No police officers were injured, and none of the motorists whose vehicles were struck by rocks was hurt.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:33:28 AM EST
He pretty well earned that one.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:34:36 AM EST
Good shoot.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:36:10 AM EST
He played the game and won the .40 caliber prize!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:36:18 AM EST
Good shoot + taze
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:36:39 AM EST
suicide by cop

But seems like a good shoot.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:36:50 AM EST
Rocks thrown at cars kill people.

He got what he deserved.


Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:44:19 AM EST
Good shoot and the cop didn't mag dump with only 1 hit.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:46:55 AM EST
Apparently he didn't get to meet Jesus Christ
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:53:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By orangelo:
Apparently he didn't get to meet Jesus Christ




you think jesus doesn't like people throwing rocks at cars?




Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:56:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 11:56:48 AM EST by JoseCuervo]
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Good shoot + taze


I think I missed the Taze part. The cop skipped it. What's up with that?

officer armed with a Taser warned Patterson that he would use the device, the suspect lunged at Trooper First Class James L. Parker, 28, who fired his Beretta .40-caliber pistol


Rob
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:56:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
Rocks thrown at cars kill people.

He got what he deserved.



Yeah here locally some asshole threw rock at a car and hit a girl in the face and she will be messed up for life now.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:57:32 AM EST
Too bad he wasn't DRT.

HH
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:58:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 11:59:32 AM EST by marksman121]
Originally Posted By JoseCuervo:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Good shoot + taze


I think I missed the Taze part. The cop skipped it. What's up with that?

officer armed with a Taser warned Patterson that he would use the device, the suspect lunged at Trooper First Class James L. Parker, 28, who fired his Beretta .40-caliber pistol


Rob


Taser is below a sidearm on use of force. Patterson went above what the Taser is for and they fired. Tasers are not used against someone using deadly force.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:01:01 PM EST
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:09:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By JoseCuervo:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Good shoot + taze


I think I missed the Taze part. The cop skipped it. What's up with that?

officer armed with a Taser warned Patterson that he would use the device, the suspect lunged at Trooper First Class James L. Parker, 28, who fired his Beretta .40-caliber pistol


Rob


The North East officer also fired his Taser at Patterson, police said.


It was a different, unamed officer that used the Taser.

The guy must be an arfcommer, he GOT BOTH!

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:10:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By JoseCuervo:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Good shoot + taze


I think I missed the Taze part. The cop skipped it. What's up with that?

officer armed with a Taser warned Patterson that he would use the device, the suspect lunged at Trooper First Class James L. Parker, 28, who fired his Beretta .40-caliber pistol


Rob


It's the sentence DIRECTLY after the one you quoted:

The North East officer also fired his Taser at Patterson, police said


It's kinda funny that he got tazed after he got shot, but it makes sense. You use the weapon that you have in your hand when you need it.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:12:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Originally Posted By JoseCuervo:
Originally Posted By AR4U:
Good shoot + taze


I think I missed the Taze part. The cop skipped it. What's up with that?

officer armed with a Taser warned Patterson that he would use the device, the suspect lunged at Trooper First Class James L. Parker, 28, who fired his Beretta .40-caliber pistol


Rob


It's the sentence DIRECTLY after the one you quoted:

The North East officer also fired his Taser at Patterson, police said


It's kinda funny that he got tazed after he got shot, but it makes sense. You use the weapon that you have in your hand when you need it.



My bad. Thanks-

Rob
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:14:13 PM EST
I really hate to see things like this.
NO GUN WAS FOUND on the guy... he was probably just some nut case that needed help and treatment.
I am all for police officers defending themselves but sometimes I think they shoot to soon.
I have seen a few videos where police officers held their fire and things ended well.

About 5 years or so ago, we had a guy at one of our local parks that was drunk and was holding a large tree branch in his hands and yelling at people.... he was over 60 years old and homeless.... he was surrounded by several police " who felt threatened" and they shot and killed him.
Really an elderly, drunk, confused man with a tree branch dies because at least 3 cops felt threatened by him.

Again, I want and agree that officers should protect themselves, but sometimes, I think they over react.
If the man with the branch in his hands had family, the trial would have been interesting.

Oh, and I was in law enforcement for a few years myself..... 70% of my arrests were miles back in the woods, 90% were people that were armed, many of those were drinking, I was alone 80% of the time, I was assaulted a couple of times, NEVER had to shoot anyone....
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:16:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By orangelo:
Apparently he didn't get to meet Jesus Christ


Maybe he wanted to meet Jose Cuervo.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:21:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:24:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.




Yeah, here is something else to consider, border patrol agents are not allowed to fire on illegals who throw rocks at them and they do it all the time... maybe if the guy in question spoke Spanish and said he was illegal, they would not have shot.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:28:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
Rocks thrown at cars kill people.

He got what he deserved.




Yup

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:29:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.




Yeah, here is something else to consider, border patrol agents are not allowed to fire on illegals who throw rocks at them and they do it all the time... maybe if the guy in question spoke Spanish and said he was illegal, they would not have shot.


not seeing your point but maybe you just don't like mexicans
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:29:54 PM EST
About as cut and dried as it gets.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:33:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By DLaw:
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
Rocks thrown at cars kill people.

He got what he deserved.




Yup



Really, potential death for throwing rocks.... try shooting Johnny and Jimmy for throwing rocks at cars....( lots of kids do).... and see what happens.
Not saying the guy was right in throwing rocks.... but at the point the police confronted him, I think the rock throwing was probably over.
They shot him because someone said he had a gun... that's why he got shot..... because " he had his hand in his pocket", that's why he got shot.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:35:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dipper:
I really hate to see things like this.
NO GUN WAS FOUND on the guy... he was probably just some nut case that needed help and treatment.
I am all for police officers defending themselves but sometimes I think they shoot to soon.
I have seen a few videos where police officers held their fire and things ended well.
<snip>
Again, I want and agree that officers should protect themselves, but sometimes, I think they over react.
If the man with the branch in his hands had family, the trial would have been interesting.

Oh, and I was in law enforcement for a few years myself..... 70% of my arrests were miles back in the woods, 90% were people that were armed, many of those were drinking, I was alone 80% of the time, I was assaulted a couple of times, NEVER had to shoot anyone....


Ok, so I'll wait for a person that has been throwing large rocks at cars that could kill people, a person who someone reported to have a gun, a person who smashed out windows of moving squads with rocks, a person who claimed to have a gun, and said person now LUNGES at police despite a warning to comply with officers demands or be TASERED, yeah, I'll wait for that person, because he might just be a poor, disturbed individual...I'll wait for him to finish his attack and see what options I cna use to calm him down. Yeah....ok....

You were in Law Enforcement for a few years? Someone that makes that claim I would hope would know better. 3-4 is a few, or is it more years of service? Full time or part-time? How many arrests is 70?. Just because you used to do the job for a short time using outdated/obsolete/risky tactics for which we have better training and options these days doesn't really impress me much, and mentalities such as yours is what gets officers killed. We end up fighting those outdated mentalities all the time by admin. I pretty much am saying that you got lucky in all your arrest situations, lucky that a person didn't choose at that time to use deadly force.

I've worked a rural area such as yourself, and done the same arrests stupidly like you did. I'm only here because I'm lucky, not because I was the one in control of things.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:36:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 12:37:52 PM EST by HarryDunne]
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



So what? He is no more or less a threat to society than a non-mentally ill man who is throwing rocks. Should have killed him.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:36:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By razor11056:

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.




Yeah, here is something else to consider, border patrol agents are not allowed to fire on illegals who throw rocks at them and they do it all the time... maybe if the guy in question spoke Spanish and said he was illegal, they would not have shot.


not seeing your point but maybe you just don't like mexicans


NO, I like Mexicans just fine.... point is, if throwing rocks gets you shot, why don't they shoot illegals for throwing rocks?? Why do they reserve that for American citizens.... they don't shoot illegals because of the heat they would get over it.... and they should get the same heat over this.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:39:37 PM EST
gee...why didnt the just shoot him in the leg??

those jbt are out of control.....
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:40:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dipper:
Really, potential death for throwing rocks.... try shooting Johnny and Jimmy for throwing rocks at cars....( lots of kids do).... and see what happens.
Not saying the guy was right in throwing rocks.... but at the point the police confronted him, I think the rock throwing was probably over.
They shot him because someone said he had a gun... that's why he got shot..... because " he had his hand in his pocket", that's why he got shot.

[/div]

When rocks are able to break windows of a moving car, they aren't just little rocks Johnny and Jimmy are throwing, and they do have the potential to cause great bodily harm or death if they hit somebody. People like Johnny and Jimmy have gotten into great amounts of trouble when rocks they HAVE thrown off overpasses or that have gone through windshields HAVE caused death and crashes.

So yes, a man throwing rocks with enough velocity to break a car window that way can cause sufficient harm to officer when they are walking up to him as well.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:40:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:42:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By easy610:
gee...why didnt the just shoot him in the leg??

those jbt are out of control.....





Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:44:15 PM EST
I say good shot man. Not too long ago a guy in my area was slinging rocks at cars as they passed by. One of the cars came back to confront the assailant and ended up being shot and killed by the wacko. If I remember correctly it was a pastor of a church that got shot.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:45:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 12:47:38 PM EST by OLY-M4gery]
Originally Posted By Dipper:

They shot him because someone said he had a gun... that's why he got shot..... because " he had his hand in his pocket", that's why he got shot.



And he refused to show his hands, then he advanced on them, indicating his intent to use a weapon, and he was well within range if he had that weapon.

So in summary

Claims he has a weapon
Moves to use the weapon
Is within range of the weapon he claims to have.

Textbook example of weapon, intent, ability.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:45:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By easy610:
gee...why didnt the just shoot him in the leg??

those jbt are out of control.....

or shoot the rock out of his hand?




Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:46:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By easy610:
gee...why didnt the just shoot him in the leg??

those jbt are out of control.....


Quiet you, grown ups are talking.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:47:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By razor11056:

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.




Yeah, here is something else to consider, border patrol agents are not allowed to fire on illegals who throw rocks at them and they do it all the time... maybe if the guy in question spoke Spanish and said he was illegal, they would not have shot.


not seeing your point but maybe you just don't like mexicans


NO, I like Mexicans just fine.... point is, if throwing rocks gets you shot, why don't they shoot illegals for throwing rocks?? Why do they reserve that for American citizens.... they don't shoot illegals because of the heat they would get over it.... and they should get the same heat over this.


Absolutely incredible foolishness. Full on lulz
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:48:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By rdblan2:

Patterson was ordered to surrender but kept repeating that he was going to meet "J.C.," according to police.[/span]



When God wishes to punish us, he answers our prayers.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 12:49:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 12:50:12 PM EST by flyfishnepa]
Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By razor11056:

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.




Yeah, here is something else to consider, border patrol agents are not allowed to fire on illegals who throw rocks at them and they do it all the time... maybe if the guy in question spoke Spanish and said he was illegal, they would not have shot.


not seeing your point but maybe you just don't like mexicans


NO, I like Mexicans just fine.... point is, if throwing rocks gets you shot, why don't they shoot illegals for throwing rocks?? Why do they reserve that for American citizens.... they don't shoot illegals because of the heat they would get over it.... and they should get the same heat over this.




well actually a border patrol agent did shoot an illegal throwing rocks at him. there's a video of it too

but being a monday morning quarterback i think the taser should have been used first


Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:02:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 1:05:15 PM EST by chwi548]
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
<snip>
but being a monday morning quarterback i think the taser should have been used first




In a perfect world, yeah, that's the idea. It doesn't always work that way though.

Most TASER cartridges have wires for 21 feet. The Tueller Drill is a demonstration how an average person, armed with a weapon such as a knife, club, rock, etc... can make the decision to act, cover 21 feet/7 yards, and inflict a deadly wound on someone before they can react. The range increases with those that are more physically fit, younger, etc... If the person has a weapon, the TASER is not the tool to use without deadly force cover.

You also have to prepare for the possibility the TASER wouldn't work. I've had a number of TASER deployments where it did not work as planned. They aren't a 100% tool. I think the officer did that by shooting. Situations like that you don't have a TASER out without deadly force cover for these exact situations.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:04:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By Dipper:

They shot him because someone said he had a gun... that's why he got shot..... because " he had his hand in his pocket", that's why he got shot.



And he refused to show his hands, then he advanced on them, indicating his intent to use a weapon, and he was well within range if he had that weapon.

So in summary

Claims he has a weapon
Moves to use the weapon
Is within range of the weapon he claims to have.

Textbook example of weapon, intent, ability.

You cut that "logic" shit out right now!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:06:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By razor11056:
suicide by cop

But seems like a good shoot.


Yep. I have read about this before, and it seems to happen on a relatively regular basis.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:12:03 PM EST
Davenport IA Centennial Bridge

Watch this for those that think people can just shoot a TASER and everything will be well....

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:15:17 PM EST
wow, shot and tazed, the police made sure they got him good on that one

from the info available i would like to declare a good shoot, the police did what they were trained to do
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:15:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 1:18:03 PM EST by flyfishnepa]
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
<snip>
but being a monday morning quarterback i think the taser should have been used first




In a perfect world, yeah, that's the idea. It doesn't always work that way though.

Most TASER cartridges have wires for 21 feet. The Tueller Drill is a demonstration how an average person, armed with a weapon such as a knife, club, rock, etc... can make the decision to act, cover 21 feet/7 yards, and inflict a deadly wound on someone before they can react. The range increases with those that are more physically fit, younger, etc... If the person has a weapon, the TASER is not the tool to use without deadly force cover.

You also have to prepare for the possibility the TASER wouldn't work. I've had a number of TASER deployments where it did not work as planned. They aren't a 100% tool. I think the officer did that by shooting. Situations like that you don't have a TASER out without deadly force cover for these exact situations.



i agree.

without the trooper having backup i'd say good shoot.

but the article said he had backup w/ a taser ready to go and the trooper had his firearm drawn as well

ETA: seems like the suspect was shot then tasered. maybe taze then shoot next time

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:19:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:

i agree.

without the trooper having backup i'd say good shoot.

but the article said he had backup w/ a taser ready to go and the trooper had his firearm drawn as well

ETA: seems like the suspect was shot then tasered. maybe taze then shoot next time



Taser is not the apropriate response to a deadly force threat.

The suspect changed the circumstances when he lunged at the Trooper.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:32:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:
<snip>
but being a monday morning quarterback i think the taser should have been used first




In a perfect world, yeah, that's the idea. It doesn't always work that way though.

Most TASER cartridges have wires for 21 feet. The Tueller Drill is a demonstration how an average person, armed with a weapon such as a knife, club, rock, etc... can make the decision to act, cover 21 feet/7 yards, and inflict a deadly wound on someone before they can react. The range increases with those that are more physically fit, younger, etc... If the person has a weapon, the TASER is not the tool to use without deadly force cover.

You also have to prepare for the possibility the TASER wouldn't work. I've had a number of TASER deployments where it did not work as planned. They aren't a 100% tool. I think the officer did that by shooting. Situations like that you don't have a TASER out without deadly force cover for these exact situations.



i agree.

without the trooper having backup i'd say good shoot.

but the article said he had backup w/ a taser ready to go and the trooper had his firearm drawn as well

ETA: seems like the suspect was shot then tasered. maybe taze then shoot next time



You are showing your ignorance in how fast stuff goes bad. See my above link. Also look at the Tueller Drill. Set it up yourself, and see if you could do any better. Record it to video. I guarantee you won't be able to. You also have to deal with the fact you don't have time to ask your partner "Hey, you Taze him, and let me know if you think I need to shoot, ok?" Tell me if it's not working."

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:49:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By razor11056:

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By razor11056:

Originally Posted By Dipper:
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By mEnTL32:
Good shoot, but

Originally Posted By rdblan2:
Clyde S. Patterson III, a voluntary resident of Perry Point Veterans Affairs Medical Center


This was a sick man



Sick men don't kill people? I'm all for handing EDP's a different way when possible, but there are times when you are forced to handle someone that is so sick they are risking death to others.




Yeah, here is something else to consider, border patrol agents are not allowed to fire on illegals who throw rocks at them and they do it all the time... maybe if the guy in question spoke Spanish and said he was illegal, they would not have shot.


not seeing your point but maybe you just don't like mexicans


NO, I like Mexicans just fine.... point is, if throwing rocks gets you shot, why don't they shoot illegals for throwing rocks?? Why do they reserve that for American citizens.... they don't shoot illegals because of the heat they would get over it.... and they should get the same heat over this.


Absolutely incredible foolishness. Full on lulz






DOUGLAS - A U.S. Border Patrol agent required medical treatment after he was pelted with rocks while trying to arrest five illegal immigrants near Douglas.

The Border Patrol says as the agent suffered a 5-inch cut on his head Sunday night when he was showered with rocks thrown over the fence along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The illegal immigrants he was trying to arrest fled back into Mexico, officials said.

The agent was airlifted to a Tucson hospital, where he was treated and released.

The Border Patrol's
Tucson Sector says there have been 201 assaults on its agents since Oct. 1, the start of the agency's budget year.

The sector encompasses all of Arizona except the southwestern corner of the state.




Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:50:50 PM EST
Darwin at work, move along.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:55:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By Dipper:
I really hate to see things like this.
NO GUN WAS FOUND on the guy... he was probably just some nut case that needed help and treatment.
I am all for police officers defending themselves but sometimes I think they shoot to soon.
I have seen a few videos where police officers held their fire and things ended well.
<snip>
Again, I want and agree that officers should protect themselves, but sometimes, I think they over react.
If the man with the branch in his hands had family, the trial would have been interesting.

Oh, and I was in law enforcement for a few years myself..... 70% of my arrests were miles back in the woods, 90% were people that were armed, many of those were drinking, I was alone 80% of the time, I was assaulted a couple of times, NEVER had to shoot anyone....


Ok, so I'll wait for a person that has been throwing large rocks at cars that could kill people, a person who someone reported to have a gun, a person who smashed out windows of moving squads with rocks, a person who claimed to have a gun, and said person now LUNGES at police despite a warning to comply with officers demands or be TASERED, yeah, I'll wait for that person, because he might just be a poor, disturbed individual...I'll wait for him to finish his attack and see what options I cna use to calm him down. Yeah....ok....

You were in Law Enforcement for a few years? Someone that makes that claim I would hope would know better. 3-4 is a few, or is it more years of service? Full time or part-time? How many arrests is 70?. Just because you used to do the job for a short time using outdated/obsolete/risky tactics for which we have better training and options these days doesn't really impress me much, and mentalities such as yours is what gets officers killed. We end up fighting those outdated mentalities all the time by admin. I pretty much am saying that you got lucky in all your arrest situations, lucky that a person didn't choose at that time to use deadly force.

I've worked a rural area such as yourself, and done the same arrests stupidly like you did. I'm only here because I'm lucky, not because I was the one in control of things.



Yes, I was with Fish and Game Law Enforcement Division..for 5 years.... I patrolled alone most of the time and most of my contacts were at night, miles back in the woods, with armed and sometimes drunk people who were outlawing deer , illegally fishing or boating , on closed land etc.
I don't know how many arrests or how many people I wrote exactly, I never cared,,, I know that MANY of my contacts I let go .... for minor infractions.
I am not trying to impress you or anyone else.
I don't know what "outdated/obsolete/risky" tactics are and don't know how YOU KNOW exactly what I did during contacts....perhaps you are physic or you just assume to much.
I DO know that what I see today and what my friends who are still active tell me, is that officers today work much more "in fear" , and are quicker to use force.
I still have friends that are with Fish and Game, State Police and town and city police.

If by "current mentalities" and "modern tactics??" you mean go to force quicker, than yes I was outdated.
I was just sent an article titled "ZERO to tazed in 17 seconds" ....It was a list of contacts police officers had with motorists ranging in age from 17 years old to 80 year old grandmothers.
What they all had in common was from the time the officer said " License and Registration" it was 17 seconds or less before the motorist was tazed.
Saw a good one on Fox today.... guy was tazed in the back of the neck while his hands were BOTH on the hood of the squad car...... is that the "modern" tactics you speak of?

You said.... "I've worked a rural area such as yourself, and done the same arrests stupidly like you did."

You assume much.... I dealt with some real hillbillies and never had a huge problem..... I like to think I was well trained by senior officers and I didn't have a chip on my shoulder nor was I AFRAID to do the job.

Which is the REAL PROBLEM with many officers, they're afraid and lash out like a fear biting dog.... OR, there are those that slip through the selection process and are real power trippers.

Had an officer stop me and the family not long ago for a burnt out tail light..... he approached us like AL Capone and a hit squad instead of a family of 4 coming home from church.... he knew who he was pulling over because he came up on both sides of my car and checked us out before he lit us up.
I told him if he was THAT afraid to approach a family of 4 at midday on a main street in town, that he needed to find another line of work.
A healthy respect and a certain amount of rational fear is good for the job...... but when you are scared shitless.... you are a danger to the community.


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