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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/15/2004 6:03:16 AM EST
I am not sure it's a big deal but the folks at DU seem to be all over it. They seem to want the US to fail.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x906709

Ruby Romaine (910 posts) Fri Oct-15-04 10:45 AM
Original message
Platoon defies orders in Iraq


A 17-member Army Reserve platoon with troops from Jackson and around the Southeast deployed to Iraq is under arrest for refusing a "suicide mission" to deliver fuel, the troops' relatives said Thursday.

The soldiers refused an order on Wednesday to go to Taji, Iraq — north of Baghdad — because their vehicles were considered "deadlined" or extremely unsafe, said Patricia McCook of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Larry O. McCook


Misunderestimator (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-15-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message

1. WOW! Now what we need is to let the rest of the troops over there

Edited on Fri Oct-15-04 10:47 AM by Misunderestimator
know about this... they couldn't arrest ALL of them, after all. SEVENTEEN members of the platoon... that's serious stuff! soldiers, for knowing that your lives are not worth sacrificing for oil.

Veterans, this is what the GOP thinks of you: {offensive picture of republican


Media_Lies_Daily (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-15-04 10:50 AM
Response to Original message

4. Sounds similar to stories out of the Vietnam War....


...and the longer this war goes on, the more the troops will resist becoming a casualty statistic for the betterment of their NeoCon Overlords.

Sic Semper Tyrannis:



Dhalgren (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-15-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message

6. I was waiting for this.

Edited on Fri Oct-15-04 10:52 AM by Dhalgren
It was only a matter of time before these overused, mistreated troops started saying "go fuck yourself". This happened in Vietnam, too, and it's overdue for Iraq. These 17 are troops that I am PROUD to support - and it's about damn time...



gratuitous (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-15-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message

9. Ohmigod! Now even our military hates America!


We absolutely must elect George W. Bush in November! He is the only person who can possibly fix what his horribly screwed-up administration has inflicted on the country. He's such a good Christian man, you know.


Jacobin (1000+ posts) Fri Oct-15-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message

10. Jackson, Mississippi newspaper, by the way


Vietnam alllllllllll over again.

I expect the fragging will start soon.





Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:09:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 7:09:41 AM EST by rifleman2000]
Ok, those soldiers are worthless fucks if this is true, and definitely not a majority.

When my platoon was conducting 24 hour ops patrolling a 50km stretch of pipeline south of Mosul, we only had 6 HMMWVs, and maintenance was a constant issue. TECHNICALLY, according to the books, our vehicles were always deadlined. But the soldiers worked overtime to keep the vehicles running, because if we couldn't get out there, someone would be fucked. I am positive that most of the vehicles over there are to 10/20 standards (by the book), but that garrison shit goes out the window over there. You make your vehicles roll, and do the mission. By refusing to move that fuel, those guys are fucking someone.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:16:07 AM EST
I think this platoon is going to get an intimate tour of the prison facilities at Ft Leavenworth, KS. Hell, if a horn dosn't work on a humvee, it's deadlined. But the vehicle can still roll. The entire article is here:

October 15, 2004
Platoon defies orders in Iraq
· Miss. soldier calls home, cites safety concerns

By Jeremy Hudson
jehudson@clarionledger.com

A 17-member Army Reserve platoon with troops from Jackson and around the Southeast deployed to Iraq is under arrest for refusing a "suicide mission" to deliver fuel, the troops' relatives said Thursday.

The soldiers refused an order on Wednesday to go to Taji, Iraq — north of Baghdad — because their vehicles were considered "deadlined" or extremely unsafe, said Patricia McCook of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Larry O. McCook.

Sgt. McCook, a deputy at the Hinds County Detention Center, and the 16 other members of the 343rd Quartermaster Company from Rock Hill, S.C., were read their rights and moved from the military barracks into tents, Patricia McCook said her husband told her during a panicked phone call about 5 a.m. Thursday.
The platoon could be charged with the willful disobeying of orders, punishable by dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and up to five years confinement, said military law expert Mark Stevens, an associate professor of justice studies at Wesleyan College in Rocky Mount, N.C.

No military officials were able to confirm or deny the detainment of the platoon Thursday.
U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson said he plans to submit a congressional inquiry today on behalf of the Mississippi soldiers to launch an investigation into whether they are being treated improperly.

"I would not want any member of the military to be put in a dangerous situation ill-equipped," said Thompson, who was contacted by families. "I have had similar complaints from military families about vehicles that weren't armor-plated, or bullet-proof vests that are outdated. It concerns me because we made over $150 billion in funds available to equip our forces in Iraq.

"President Bush takes the position that the troops are well-armed, but if this situation is true, it calls into question how honest he has been with the country," Thompson said.
The 343rd is a supply unit whose general mission is to deliver fuel and water. The unit includes three women and 14 men and those with ranking up to sergeant first class.


"I got a call from an officer in another unit early (Thursday) morning who told me that my husband and his platoon had been arrested on a bogus charge because they refused to go on a suicide mission," said Jackie Butler of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Michael Butler, a 24-year reservist. "When my husband refuses to follow an order, it has to be something major."
The platoon being held has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., whose daughter Amber McClenny is among those being detained.

McClenny, 21, pleaded for help in a message left on her mother's answering machine early Thursday morning.

"They are holding us against our will," McClenny said. "We are now prisoners."
McClenny told her mother her unit tried to deliver fuel to another base in Iraq Wednesday, but was sent back because the fuel had been contaminated with water. The platoon returned to its base, where it was told to take the fuel to another base, McClenny told her mother.

The platoon is normally escorted by armed Humvees and helicopters, but did not have that support Wednesday, McClenny told her mother.
The convoy trucks the platoon was driving had experienced problems in the past and were not being properly maintained, Hill said her daughter told her.

The situation mirrors other tales of troops being sent on missions without proper equipment.

Aviation regiments have complained of being forced to fly dangerous missions over Iraq with outdated night-vision goggles and old missile-avoidance systems. Stories of troops' families purchasing body armor because the military didn't provide them with adequate equipment have been included in recent presidential debates.
Patricia McCook said her husband, a staff sergeant, understands well the severity of disobeying orders. But he did not feel comfortable taking his soldiers on another trip.

"He told me that three of the vehicles they were to use were deadlines ... not safe to go in a hotbed like that," Patricia McCook said.
Hill said the trucks her daughter's unit was driving could not top 40 mph.

"They knew there was a 99 percent chance they were going to get ambushed or fired at,"

Hill said her daughter told her. "They would have had no way to fight back."

Kathy Harris of Vicksburg is the mother of Aaron Gordon, 20, who is among those being detained. Her primary concern is that she has been told the soldiers have not been provided access to a judge advocate general.
Stevens said if the soldiers are being confined, law requires them to have a hearing before a magistrate within seven days.

Harris said conditions for the platoon have been difficult of late. Her son e-mailed her earlier this week to ask what the penalty would be if he became physical with a commanding officer, she said.
But Nadine Stratford of Rock Hill, S.C., said her godson Colin Durham, 20, has been happy with his time in Iraq. She has not heard from him since the platoon was detained.

"When I talked to him about a month ago, he was fine," Stratford said. "He said it was like being at home."

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:20:22 AM EST
Why am I not suprised that DU dumbasses support insubordination?

"These 17 are troops I'm Proud to support"

Really?! Why? Because they fucked over their fellow soldiers by not doing their damn job?
You think they were ordered to deliver fuel because Command had nothing better to make them do?
I guarentee somebody out there needed that shit and now they don't have it. Great support!
Maybe we should get 150,000 troops to act like this. What a great idea! Then instead of being a well disciplined army working hard toward the common good, we could be "An Army of One" working for our own goals and say fuck the other guy!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:21:04 AM EST
Jackson, Mississippi newspaper? hmmmm ..... well, thats just lovely ...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:22:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By Arty8:
The convoy trucks the platoon was driving had experienced problems in the past and were not being properly maintained, Hill said her daughter told her.


She should have askled her daughter whose job is it to maintain those trucks.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:25:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By Arty8:
The convoy trucks the platoon was driving had experienced problems in the past and were not being properly maintained, Hill said her daughter told her.


She should have askled her daughter whose job is it to maintain those trucks.



"But Sarge, I can't do PMCS! Its my day off."

If they need volunteers for a firing squad, I'm in.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:25:26 AM EST
every one of out vehicles was deadlined for one thing or another and we were transportation. we just had to use the ones that were the least deadlined. not one of out vehicles didn't have a class 3 leak or some other problem but unless that leak was spraying with high pressure you drove it and keeped it full. Ive said fuck you im not taking that truck but i sure as hell took another one and got the damn job done
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:28:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:37:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Is there any proof that this even happened, other than a questionable post from a sourece with more than a hint of an agenda? I would hate to make judgements based on a DU rurmor.

As far as vehicles go, I on more than one occasion drove a deadlined vehicle that had been given the magic circle X, a commanders override. IF the vehicles were truly unsafe to be driven and commander refused to allow the vehicles to be taken out of service worrying it would make him look bad, then I could understand the troops refusing to drive them. If this whole deal is true, I would imagine we will be hearing all about it before NOV.



our 5988E were updated every coulple months so there noever was an X for the CO to circle out maintance chief just said in the mornig meeting that everything was good to go. we would write down class3 leak but when they get updated and printed it only says class 2 leak they would never really document a deadlined item because then teh CO would have to sign off on it then that would make him look bad and make it look like the maintance section wasn;t doing their job. and if we had deadlined vehicles we couldnt do the mission and that would make us look bad. we were always commiting more trucks than we had available.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:43:20 AM EST
Any deadline fault can be overridden by the commander or his designated represenative based upon thier judgement that the risk of operating the vehicle in whatever condition it is in is outwieghed by the need to complete the mission.

Therefore, these fucks have no ground to disobey any such order.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:45:16 AM EST
Make way for the Waahmbulance. A bunch of whiny asses don't want to do the job they signed on the dotted line for don't want to do their jobs that others rely on them for.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:47:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Is there any proof that this even happened, other than a questionable post from a sourece with more than a hint of an agenda? I would hate to make judgements based on a DU rurmor.



The story is being carried in the following:
Navy Times
Air Force Times
Marice Corps Times
Army Times
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:05:11 AM EST
damn near all of our vehicles were deadlined the whole time we used them in iraq. I can't remember filling out a 2404 that didn't have atleast 8 faults for any vehicle we used. particulary the 5 tons because the parts were less abundant than humvee parts. just before we ripped out they stopped even sending us new parts to fix our vehicles and we had to just make do with whatever we had.

these guys were just cowards that didn't want to go back outside the wire. plain and simple.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:05:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Arty8:
"They are holding us against our will," McClenny said. "We are now prisoners."



Oh poor us! We disobeyed orders and were then imprisoned against our will! Who'd have ever thought that would happen? I was told that this whole occupation was actually a free love commune, not a military operation.

Meanwhile, Rep. Bennie Thompson voted no on the $87 Billion to fund the troops. Why didn't he think about how much he "would not want any member of the military to be put in a dangerous situation ill-equipped" then?

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:47:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 2:44:31 PM EST by voneisen88]
"Neocon Overlords"



RJ
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:28:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 7:52:32 PM EST by llanero]
What was the PL doing when this all went down?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:40:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:48:21 PM EST
I would really like to know whatthis deadline was. And even if it were %100 unsafe, the should have said, we need another truck, or will be taking one less truck. I hope they max them out in Leavenworth.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:51:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2A373:
13 page thread on this here,
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=284445



So that one is technically not a dupe because it talks about the incident directly, while this one is the one to post in if you want to post about DU's reaction? Gotcha.
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