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Posted: 5/20/2001 1:13:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2001 1:16:21 PM EDT by uglygun]
[url]http://www.vpc.org/graphics/snipcov2.pdf[/url] Here's the attack on the hunting rifle with scope, violence policy center needs to rot in hell! So much for recreational long range target shooting as a legitimate sport, it too closely parrallels sniping and who knows it could be said that you are practicing to be a terrorist sniper. We can't have that can we? Such a wonderful assault on our freedoms it's incredible.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 1:21:20 PM EDT
Have you seen what they say about the NRA on the web page. They said NRA helps gun makers market guns to kids.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:04:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK Fan: Have you seen what they say about the NRA on the web page. They said NRA helps gun makers market guns to kids.
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And what is wrong with that? When I was growing up me and my 10 year old buddies used to take our .22s out all the time, but in this PC world that would be a no no.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:07:10 PM EDT
More anti freedom drivil from the socialists
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:11:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:14:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: There was that HUGE rash of shooting using scoped bolt action rifles shortly after all those ones made with AR and FAL series assualt rifles... [size=5][):)]
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Kinda like all thoes bayonetings.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:21:02 PM EDT
Once again VPC proves their expert knowledge of firearms, by placing a picture of a British soldier holding an LSW (SAW version of the L85 bullpup) on the cover of their report on "Civilian Sales of Military Sniper Rifles." Nevermind that it's not a sniper rifle by any stretch, it's not even something that's ever been available to any civilian in this country (or as far as I know, any others). Fuckwits.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:21:51 PM EDT
I kind of like this quote: "nearly 2,000 yards, or almost 10 times the deer hunter’s maximum effective range." Next time some deer hunter at the range asks you why you need that AR, AK, FAL, PSS, PSG, etc. Tell him that the VPC is out to ban ANY rifle that is accurate or effective past 200 yards--their own website says that is the maximum range a deer hunter needs to be effective at. That should finally pursuade them to our side. AFARR
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:23:45 PM EDT
That was a fun read. Though, it seemed like they stole a lot of material from Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Some guns are too big, some guns are too small, but no guns are just right. It's hard to take them seriously when they admit that the problem is that a gun can be used to hit a target. That's what a rifle is for, it's not a slot machine. A rifle that can't hit its target has two problems: the manufacturer, and poor judgement behind the trigger. They're reporting on a problem that they admit doesn't actually exist, but the numbers could skyrocket if they keep up the rhetoric and start telling the bad guys that these guns can turn joe six pack into a lethal killer a mile away. Even with practice, I never get a 5 shot group that could be covered with a nickel at 100 yards. But somehow, the rifles on their list make this happen. I wish they had to demonstrate how real this "problem" is before suggesting a "solution".
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:28:43 PM EDT
The gun on the cover page looks more like an M60 then a Rem 700... Kharn
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:47:00 PM EDT
I wish they would print their reports on Charmin or some type os asswipe. Then I could see the purpose in reports like these. Dateline 2040: Good evening, I am Tom Brokaws clone twice removed. The top story tonight....Chelsea Clinton-Clinton has just signed the last bill that will end private ownership of all firearms in the USA. Starting with machine guns in 1943, assault weapons in 1994, sniper rifles in 2004, shotguns in 2008, firearms with a barrel length under 15 inches banned in 2012, firearms with barrels longer than 16 inches in 2018, the end of the private gun store ownership and the FFL system in 1020 she has now worked out an agreement with Congress and whats left of both factions of the NRA hunters and the NRA shooters. As of January 30, 2040 all firearms that are not specificly banned by any of the above mentioned laws are now banned AND private ownership of any type of ammunition has also been banned. All of the state owned firearms stores will be converted to "fruit and nut" bars, and all remaining firearms will be "returned" to the nearest state owned firwearms store for immediate destruction. For the remaining people who have not accepted the repeal of the Second Amendment in 2035 and who wish to continue to operate firearms will be allowed to have one day a year in which a lottery system will determine who gets to fire the one remaining operating firearm in AMreica. In other news tonight, Hillery Clinton-Clinton clone 1 and Rosie OdOnell's overweight clone 2 have declared that all men must be sterlized at birth.....
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 2:57:05 PM EDT
There again, VPC has spent thousands of dollars doing market research for you. Print off a copy and see what toys you want to order next. Seriously, these people are dangerous. They don't understand what they're talking about and are willing to grossly distort reality to make their points. There is a lot of discussion in there about banning .50 cal, which is to be expected. However, they are also talking about banning .338 Lapua magnum (an intermediate "sniper" round) and purpose built sniper rifles. Their whole approach leaves huge holes. If you're going to ban .338 LM and .50 cal, why aren't you banning high powered hunting rounds like the .458 rounds? If they think for one minute that people will not start taking what is legal and tweaking them for more performance, they are dreaming. What about the new .407 Cheyenne round? In addition, at what point does your Remington 700 VSS become a "sniper" rifle? Is it when you add a Leupold scope just like the Army M24? What if you add a stock like the Marine's M40A1 or one of the various chassis stocks? Maybe the test will be if you camoflauge the gun (that atleast would be consistent with VPC's concerns about looks of weapons). Their ignorance is appalling and even funny at times. Make no mistake that these people are serious. They are using all of the same old techiques that worked for the "semi-automatice assault weapons" ban. Now would be a very good time to pull some of your hunting buddies aside -- you know, the ones who thought that VPC and HCI would stop at your "assault" rifle and never bother his hunting rifle -- and point out that these people have a lot of trouble distinquishing between a Remington 700 (or Savage 110 or Ruger 77) hunting rifle and a "sniper" rifle. We talk of pre-64 Winchester 70s and pre-ban Ar-15s. Let's hope we're not talking about pre-ban Remington 700s in a year or two.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 3:37:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2001 3:37:12 PM EDT by uglygun]
Frances, ofcourse those other rounds will be included. You see they would all be capable of defeating most any kevlar body amour out there, most every hunting round in existance would fall to this amour piercing capability "test." Then suddenly there is a new excuse for the anti's. When these powerful cartridges are outlawed suddenly all that is left are the weaker "safe" rounds, suddenly hunting is no longer a legitimate use of a firearm because most of the cartridges will only wound the animal making it needlessly suffer until it bleeds to death through it's wounds and not only that but hunters will stop wanting to use rounds that wound an animal thereby causing it's pain to be lengthened or for them to track the animal further or even lose it all together. Nothing is a "legitimate" use or sport to these people.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 3:44:21 PM EDT
Humankind has seemed to always have a general distain for the skill and role of the sniper. This is evidenced by the fact that snipers have been absorbed back into the ranks of infantry so many times following deployment in wartime only to reorganized and trained when "needed" again. I have always believed that this lack of support among military ranks have only strengthened the dislike in the civilian population. Thus we think of this type of clandestine activity as somehow inherently evil much along the same vein as thinking that guns are inherently evil. The many lives that were spared by the shortening of armed conflict appreciate the role of snipers but they still don't like the details. Overall..... same old drivel.... Any angle that will make guns and gunowners look evil will be exploited and foolish uninformed people (read: subjects) will believe every word and shuffle mindlessly down the path to slavery. [sniper] [b]The Sniper
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 3:56:41 PM EDT
Howdy; I just got through a fairly high ranked law school and passed the bar. I saw a lot of liberalism in the students and profs. This report is a ready made trial report for suing rifle makers in Federal court (Federal judges tending to be much more dumb and political then State judges---NY, Cal, NJ, and Mass excluded). I think bolt action makers and sellers had better watch out, the next wave of suits is being written.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 4:43:40 PM EDT
Did anyone understand their definition of a sniper rifle. They said it was important but then basically said it was a sniper rifle if called one. Bunch of idiocy. Did anyone read their study on registration. It talked about how it would cost a bunch of money and have no effect on crime, but in the conclusion they say we should do it anyhow.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 4:51:38 PM EDT
Depressing... the "Gallery of Sniper Rifles" in Appendix B has no pictures.[:(]
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 4:58:18 PM EDT
first the wanted to ban "AW"s becouse they were to inaccurate now "sniper rifles" for being to accurate what a load of BULLSH*T! of couurse all gun laws are bullSh*t anyway
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 5:11:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777: first the wanted to ban "AW"s becouse they were to inaccurate now "sniper rifles" for being to accurate what a load of BULLSH*T! of couurse all gun laws are bullSh*t anyway
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What is to be expected? They know what they are doing. They know what they are saying makes no sense, but what does that matter?
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 5:16:46 PM EDT
[b]"ATF currently denies importation to unsafe, ultraconcealable "junk-guns" and foreign made assault weapons because they fail the sporting purposes test."[/b] What exactly IS the test? Going by their definition of a Sniper rifle in the last paragraphs, a stock 10/22 (with floating bull barrel)with a trigger job and a titaniam(sp) fireing pin IS a sniper rifle. BISHOP
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 5:34:58 PM EDT
Given the virtual identity of the core systems, the outright equivalence accorded the sniper and varmint model by the experts, and Remington’s own emphasis on the inclusion of military and police technology in its advertising, we include the Remington Model 700 Varmint Special on this list of civilian sniper rifles. Also Garand (M1C, M1D) and Savage 110FP bolt-action sniper rifle in caliber .223 Remington.
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Maybe the hunters will get off their big, democrat voting asses and see the light. These guys want to ban .50, .338, 30-06, and .308, even some .223 What's next?
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 5:37:34 PM EDT
Sheesh, its getting hard to buy all of these "evil" things faster than they are done away with!!! Need to get a .50.... Need to get a .50... Need to get a .50...... Funny thing is I never wanted one until now.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 7:50:05 PM EDT
These people and their endless BS make me want to break things.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 8:05:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Frances: There is a lot of discussion in there about banning .50 cal, which is to be expected. However, they are also talking about banning .338 Lapua magnum (an intermediate "sniper" round) and purpose built sniper rifles.
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"Intermediate calibers" covers essentially all rifle cartridges, 5.56 and .308 included. VPC is the propaganda arm of the gun contol industry and uses hegelian techniques very effectively. They CREATE AND DEFINE a NON-EXISTANT "problem" (VPC created ALL of these: "cop-killer bullets", "plastic x-ray evading handguns", "assault weapons", "sniper rifles", and now "pocket rocket" handguns). Then they propagandize the problem (tom diaz and his "circles of death" d.c. maps), and finally present the solution to the "problem" that never existed in the first place. It is all the more effective when the media plays along.
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 8:14:49 PM EDT
I knew that this was coming. What VPC doesn't know is that they are a tool of the NWO crowd........and they EAT THEIR YOUNG......... Imbro you are right on. These people are an illustration of cognitive dissonance. [puke]
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 10:49:13 PM EDT
must but a remington 700 in 308 now just gives me a excuse to buy one
Link Posted: 5/20/2001 11:40:12 PM EDT
I'll bet that somehow they will work in a ban on all shotgun slugs and all 00 and 000 buck shot and any load that has "tactical" as a describer.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 1:36:48 AM EDT
VPC can only appeal to mode 2 thinkers. i.e. soccer moms. Here's a link to how it all works. General information [url]www.propaganda101.com[/url] Gun control [url]www.propaganda101.com/newpage124.htm[/url] Theory of Cognitive Dissonance [url]www.propaganda101.com/cognitiv.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 1:41:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:35:51 AM EDT
"Most hunters would condider the 30.06 ineffective past 200 yards? WTF? Give me a break, what hunter did they ask? Probably some slack jaw yookle that voted for Gore because he wants to get his check......I have known a couple of guys who have taken game past 250 with their '06.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 3:49:15 AM EDT
Man that article was a crock of sh!t. Ban intermediate "sniper rounds"? Just what in hell am I going to bear and moose hunt with? Also, this spell check thing is petty cool!
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:10:52 AM EDT
If I have my terminology correct a 'snipe' is a very small bird.
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:32:03 AM EDT
VTHokieShooter: They are talking about the .30-30 when they say its only effective to 200 yards, not the .30-06. Kharn
Link Posted: 5/21/2001 5:53:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er:
Originally Posted By AK Fan: Have you seen what they say about the NRA on the web page. They said NRA helps gun makers market guns to kids.
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And what is wrong with that? When I was growing up me and my 10 year old buddies used to take our .22s out all the time, but in this PC world that would be a no no.
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They are using the same argument as Tobacco
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 4:15:49 AM EDT
Ooopps I have egg in my face, I guess I should read my carefully next time.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 7:56:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er:
Originally Posted By Paul: There was that HUGE rash of shooting using scoped bolt action rifles shortly after all those ones made with AR and FAL series assualt rifles... [size=5][):)]
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Kinda like all thoes bayonetings.
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Yep, along with the folding-stockings, flash-supresserings, pistol-grippings, and high-capacity-magazinings! I feel so safe now that Billy banned them all! [puke]
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 9:16:27 AM EDT
There's some links to good sniper web sites in this stuff! Let's see what other hysteria we can drum up for them to address. The more hysterical they get, the less credibility they have. How about long bladed kitchen knives (the French Chef is a killer)? Assault style baseball bats (high tech alloy, taped grip)? Tactical power drills (cordless, keyless fast-change chucks)? High capacity chain saws (large engines, long chain bars)?
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 9:28:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2001 9:29:18 AM EDT by KBaker]
If you liked the Violence Policy Center "report" on sniper rifles, you'll LOVE the one on "lead poisoning" We're trying to kill our kids by exposing them to lead at shooting ranges. "Poisonous Pastime" [url]http://www.vpc.org/studies/leadcont.htm[/url] [sniper]
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 9:29:42 AM EDT
They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! They're incompetent!!! *Censored* and they're also *censored*.
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 9:54:20 AM EDT
This is the best news for gun activists in a LONG time! By going after mediums as well as 50 BMGs, they activate the generalized hunting community. Not only have the VPC managed to come up with something that will pull hunters off their asses, but VPC's resources will be diluted by trying to chase this rabbit as well as their other initiatives. I was worried the 50 BMGs were going to have to fight on their own, but now they will have reinforcements. VPC shot themselves in the foot with this one!
Link Posted: 5/28/2001 10:07:43 AM EDT
This topic is two years old in Kalifornia. We are on the cutting edge of B.S. when it comes to all these topics. This has been talked about as legislation in L.A. County already. From City to State; and believe me they'll make it Federal in a heart beat if we/us/you stand by. [:(!]
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