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Posted: 7/11/2008 11:01:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 3:37:53 PM EDT by JDC_VA_USMC]
I'm seriously considering trading this:





My 2004 Harley Davidson Softail Deuce (Upgraded Stage 1 with Vance and Hines Big Shot pipes),

for a new or lightly used one of these:





I've had my bike for about 4 years, and have enjoyed it and been riding it more and more lately. It's fun, but I think the R1200GS would be more practical, more fun, and better on my commute to work and on long rides. I also think you get more bike for your money with a BMW, and like the added safety features of the newer R1200GS.

I know it's a totally different bike to ride, so I'm planning on test riding one in the near future. My girlfriend also enjoys riding the Deuce, and I'm not sure if the GS will be as comfortable for a passenger.

For those who would say "get both", I really can't justify owning/paying insurance on both bikes and my truck.

Thoughts?

*ETA: I also live in the DC area, and the R1200GS would make a much better BOV.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:04:20 AM EDT
I think the Bimmer is neat and all but I like the laid back riding position and height of a cruiser.

Also I don't know if I could get used the sound of a Bimmer. One of the best safety features my HD has is that it's wicked LOUD.

Good luck it's a tough choice.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:06:25 AM EDT
bmw > harley

I guess hitler did not think so though video
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:09:16 AM EDT
You look cooler on the HD but I bet you'll have a lot more fun riding the BMW.

I would also check out the sport tourers from the Jap companies.


Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:09:33 AM EDT
The R12GS is a fantastic motorcycle, but not particularly ideal for two-up touring. For two-up riding, yes; 3,000-mile trips not so much. I have (and commute/travel on) a 2004 R1150RT. It's a great all-around motorcycle. Sure, it won't go place the GS will go, but it's quite the mile-disposal unit. I'd suggest that you ride both a GS and an RT, with the girlfriend.

The GS is sort of the AR15 of BMW motorcycles. There are aftermarket parts available to take the stock platform to any variation you can imagine. I would like to add a '96-'00 GS to my stable at some point for some potential off-road adventuring, but for the time being, the RT gets the fabled girlfriend and me where we want to do, in comfort, style and a short amount of time.

In before the move to Cars & Bikes.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:10:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
You look cooler on the HD but I bet you'll have a lot more fun riding the BMW.

I would also check out the sport tourers from the Jap companies.


Absolutely. The new Kawasaki is a fantastic machine.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:12:50 AM EDT
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:14:50 AM EDT
Give the Suzuki VStrom a serious look before snapping on a GS. Ride them both. Bet you won't end up on a BMW if you do.

I had a huge boner for the GS till I really looked into it and to ride both. The Vstrom is 9/10ths the bike the GS is, for less than half the money, and the aftermarket is awesome on the Strom. I think the GS is probably a little more durable & rugged, but the Vee is a more capable street bike.

You have to factor in maintenance and repair costs - and that's where the GS really socks it to you. Nothing is cheap on that bike.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:19:47 AM EDT
I personally know two gentlemen with over 100k miles on the odometer on two older BMW bikes. I personally ride a Crotch Rocket of Japanese heritage.

Get the Bimmer....living close to Sturgis, I can tell you that 90% of the Harley riders I am watching right now are wanna-be bikers that trailer their bikes to the rally, and all of the locals (not to mention, real bikers) make fun of. Nothing good going for H-D right now.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:22:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
I personally know two gentlemen with over 100k miles on the odometer on two older BMW bikes. I personally ride a Crotch Rocket of Japanese heritage.

Get the Bimmer....living close to Sturgis, I can tell you that 90% of the Harley riders I am watching right now are wanna-be bikers that trailer their bikes to the rally, and all of the locals (not to mention, real bikers) make fun of. Nothing good going for H-D right now.
Au contraire, mon frere! I'm no staunch supported of The Motor Company™, but they've just bought MV Agusta and Cagiva from the Castiglioni family. This will bring an impressive inrush of cash to the struggling Italian firms, and technology to the Milwaukee engineering effort. They got a hell of a lot of insight for the relatively paltry $180 million.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:23:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
I personally know two gentlemen with over 100k miles on the odometer on two older BMW bikes. I personally ride a Crotch Rocket of Japanese heritage.

Get the Bimmer....living close to Sturgis, I can tell you that 90% of the Harley riders I am watching right now are wanna-be bikers that trailer their bikes to the rally, and all of the locals (not to mention, real bikers) make fun of. Nothing good going for H-D right now.


I've ridden his bike (well, not HIS bike, but basically the same one) and it's plenty comfortable on long rides. If you won't take a bike like that to Sturgis, you won't take a BMW either.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:23:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Give the Suzuki VStrom a serious look before snapping on a GS. Ride them both. Bet you won't end up on a BMW if you do.

I had a huge boner for the GS till I really looked into it and to ride both. The Vstrom is 9/10ths the bike the GS is, for less than half the money, and the aftermarket is awesome on the Strom. I think the GS is probably a little more durable & rugged, but the Vee is a more capable street bike.

You have to factor in maintenance and repair costs - and that's where the GS really socks it to you. Nothing is cheap on that bike.


I've owned both. Now I have neither. The BMW is superior in every way to the Vstrom on both street and light off road. The VStrom is by far the better bang for the buck, but it does nothing better beyond straight line acceleration than the Beemer. The Beemer was much more comfortable and much more tractable on a daily basis, but as you said, its part of the cost. As for problems, I experienced none with either. The Beemer was better balanced, had much better brakes (linked w ABS), and the power was very linear. The Vstrom was much more fun twisting the throttle wide open coming out of sweeping left and right handers, the Suzuki 90deg twin is indeed terrific. With that said, the Boxer motor was no slouch either, it just delivered power differently, and I think I attribute some of it to a shaft drive as well. As for maintenance, do it yourself. The boxer motor is extremely easy for scheduled maintenance, everything can be found online.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:23:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:26:12 AM EDT
Almost had my dad convinced to dump his customized HD springer for a Beemer last year. I wouldn't hesitate.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:28:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 11:28:51 AM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
I personally know two gentlemen with over 100k miles on the odometer on two older BMW bikes. I personally ride a Crotch Rocket of Japanese heritage.

Get the Bimmer....living close to Sturgis, I can tell you that 90% of the Harley riders I am watching right now are wanna-be bikers that trailer their bikes to the rally, and all of the locals (not to mention, real bikers) make fun of. Nothing good going for H-D right now.
Au contraire, mon frere! I'm no staunch supported of The Motor Company™, but they've just bought MV Agusta and Cagiva from the Castiglioni family. This will bring an impressive inrush of cash to the struggling Italian firms, and technology to the Milwaukee engineering effort. They got a hell of a lot of insight for the relatively paltry $180 million.



I just heard that this morning. Hope they don't screw-up MV. I LOVE MV Augusta bikes. The Ferrari of sportbikes.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:28:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


I don't care for the seating position, honestly.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:28:56 AM EDT
It depends on how you look at motorcycles.

The BMW is the better, more versatile vehicle by far. It can go lots of places a "normal" streetbike won't go. The suspension is amazing stuff. The brakes are night-and-day next to the H-D's insufficient single-rotor setup. The Deuce has better output at very low rpms, but not by much, and they have a narrow useful powerband concentrated on the very bottom of the rev range; the BMW has a boatload of useful torque from 2500 to 7500rpm. The BMW will have a much better selection of tires (something you probably shouldn't skimp on when your contact patches are only a finger or two across) due to the alloy wheels that won't require an inner-tube, as well as being sized in relatively common sizes. The BMW has massive cornering and ground clearance, good for the tight stuff, as well as the not-quite-paved stuff. However, it's a difficult reach to the ground for us non-6'+ folks.

The Deuce is a perfectly nice bike, but it has only about 1/4 the capabilities of the BMW. Personally, I ride everyday, enjoy touring, like efficiency, and do the occasional track day. I'd pick the BMW without even thinking twice. The H-D just doesn't do enough for me, personally. Folks who enjoy the foot-forward, cruiser stance would obviously want the Deuce. It would drive me nuts...

The two are almost as different as motorcycles get. The Deuce is nice and all, but I couldn't imagine emergency braking, swerving, or doing any actual serious riding on it...
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:30:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 11:30:53 AM EDT by Red_Label]

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By VBC:
You look cooler on the HD but I bet you'll have a lot more fun riding the BMW.

I would also check out the sport tourers from the Jap companies.


Absolutely. The new Kawasaki is a fantastic machine.



I had to talk myself out of signing-up for a new Concours last week. Man I want that bike!
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:33:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Repeater:
The two are almost as different as motorcycles get. The Deuce is nice and all, but I couldn't imagine emergency braking, swerving, or doing any actual serious riding on it...


You need to ride with me..

You're right, though. It all depends on what you want out of a bike. Personally, I'm uncomfortable on anything but a bike with a low seat height, and forward controls.

My softtail is setup kind of high and on Avon rubber, because I loooooove the twisties.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:33:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:
I personally know two gentlemen with over 100k miles on the odometer on two older BMW bikes. I personally ride a Crotch Rocket of Japanese heritage.

Get the Bimmer....living close to Sturgis, I can tell you that 90% of the Harley riders I am watching right now are wanna-be bikers that trailer their bikes to the rally, and all of the locals (not to mention, real bikers) make fun of. Nothing good going for H-D right now.


I've ridden his bike (well, not HIS bike, but basically the same one) and it's plenty comfortable on long rides. If you won't take a bike like that to Sturgis, you won't take a BMW either.


I admit, I really like the riding position of the Deuce. I know both the GS and the RT are completely different.


Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

I have (and commute/travel on) a 2004 R1150RT. It's a great all-around motorcycle. Sure, it won't go place the GS will go, but it's quite the mile-disposal unit. I'd suggest that you ride both a GS and an RT, with the girlfriend.


If I go with a BMW, the RT is a strong second choice. I've actually been looking for your exact bike in my area for a good price; if I found it I'd probably snatch it up.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:36:27 AM EDT


My softtail is setup kind of high and on Avon rubber, because I loooooove the twisties.


No doubt in my mind. We all do.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:38:15 AM EDT
If your even considering trading your softail off for a foreign job your not worthy to be on a Harley in the first place.

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:39:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:
If I go with a BMW, the RT is a strong second choice. I've actually been looking for your exact bike in my area for a good price; if I found it I'd probably snatch it up.
My local dealer doesn't have any RTs right now, but they've got scads of GSs! Never seen so many there!

Gateway BMW in St. Louis always seems to have a few RTs and GSs.

Fly out to the midwest and ride your BMW home!
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:40:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Repeater:


My softtail is setup kind of high and on Avon rubber, because I loooooove the twisties.


No doubt in my mind. We all do.


Not all do. There is nothing more irritating (and I say this as a Harley owner) than riding with guys on slammed soft tails that putz around corners. The reputation that Harley riders have earned as weekend fair weather riders is not without merit, for sure.

But that's them. I'm me.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:41:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
If your even considering trading your softail off for a foreign job your not worthy to be on a Harley in the first place.

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:42:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
If your even considering trading your softail off for a foreign job your not worthy to be on a Harley in the first place.



I'll admit to drinking the Harley kool aid (yummy!), but it *is* just a bike, dude.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:42:49 AM EDT
Get both
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:43:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 11:43:26 AM EDT by Rosenrot]

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:43:43 AM EDT
I think HD is actually owned by Honda.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:44:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 11:45:46 AM EDT by Infallible]

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
If your even considering trading your softail off for a foreign job your not worthy to be on a Harley in the first place.



And if you've ever bought a Harley then you're riding with foreign brakes, suspension, and electrics.

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?


Ask yourself this, has BMW ever made a Harley? The answer is no. HD can't say that the reverse is true however.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:45:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
I think HD is actually owned by Honda.


You thought wrong.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:46:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
I think HD is actually owned by Honda.
lolwut.jpg
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:47:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Infallible:
And if you've ever bought a Harley then you're riding with foreign brakes, suspension, and electrics.


Not mine, but I'll admit mine's a total custom.

Who specifically supplies brake and suspension to the Motor Company, out of curiosity?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:48:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?


How many BMWs have you owned in yours kid?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:48:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 11:49:15 AM EDT by VBC]

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By VBC:
I think HD is actually owned by Honda.


You thought wrong.



I checked on it and it was rumored that Honda was going to buyout HD back in July 2007. Made stocks soar. But didn't happen. Was only a rumor.

Carry on.

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:49:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Infallible:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
If your even considering trading your softail off for a foreign job your not worthy to be on a Harley in the first place.



And if you've ever bought a Harley then you're riding with foreign brakes, suspension, and electrics.

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?


Ask yourself this, has BMW ever made a Harley? The answer is no. HD can't say that the reverse is true however.



I have a shovelhead so everything on my bike is 100% American down the damn seat
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:49:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By VBC:
I think HD is actually owned by Honda.


You thought wrong.



I checked on it and it was rumored that Honda was going to buyout HD back in July 2007. Made stocks soar. But didn't happen. Was only a rumor.

Carry on.



Yep. I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:49:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?


How many BMWs have you owned in yours kid?



Thanks for answering my question. Typical Harley bashing BS like usual. Next.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:50:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


I don't care for the seating position, honestly.


Yeah, a bike you find comfortable that you actually ride is way superior to a bike that's uncomfortable that you don't bother with.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:51:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?


How many BMWs have you owned in yours kid?



Thanks for answering my question. Typical Harley bashing BS like usual. Next.


Yeah, your question only has validity when you ask it of others, but not when it's asked of you. Got it.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:53:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By Infallible:
And if you've ever bought a Harley then you're riding with foreign brakes, suspension, and electrics.


Not mine, but I'll admit mine's a total custom.

Who specifically supplies brake and suspension to the Motor Company, out of curiosity?
Nissin brakes, Showa suspension. AT least that's what's on the not-available-in-America XR1200, which is a beautiful and apparently well-sorted machine.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:54:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?
Does the one made in Italy count?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:54:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
I'd stick with the Harley, but I'll admit to having a strong bias.


I wouldn't. The BMW is far superior.


"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?


How many BMWs have you owned in yours kid?



Thanks for answering my question. Typical Harley bashing BS like usual. Next.


Yeah, your question only has validity when you ask it of others, but not when it's asked of you. Got it.



I'm not the one that said the BMW was superior to the HD softtail. So I ask, how can you make such a statement. How many Harleys have you owned in your lifetime to know that BMW is superior?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:54:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:
Yeah, a bike you find comfortable that you actually ride is way superior to a bike that's uncomfortable that you don't bother with.


You want to know the most comfortable, easy to ride bike I've ever ridden? A friend's 1986 Yamaha Virago. A VERY close second is another buddy's FXR.

I used to describe his FXR as "shaking hands with your best friend". I don't think I'd ever get tired of riding it. The only reason I don't own one, is I don't like the look. Honest truth.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:56:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
AT least that's what's on the not-available-in-America XR1200, which is a beautiful and apparently well-sorted machine.



XR1200 -- please come to America!
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:57:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
"O is it"? How many Harleys have you owned during your life time?
Does the one made in Italy count?


depends. does it have a heel shifter and do you wear a vest and chaps?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 11:59:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I'm not the one that said the BMW was superior to the HD softtail. So I ask, how can you make such a statement. How many Harleys have you owned in your lifetime to know that BMW is superior?


Not a damn one, nor would I. I don't own things because they have a certain name on them, especially when superior options are available at or even below the same price point.

How many BMWs have you owned?
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 12:01:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
How many Harleys have you owned in your lifetime to know that BMW is superior?


Not a damn one



So what you said earlier was no more then a big truckload full of bull shit right? Right.

Next.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 12:04:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I'm not the one that said the BMW was superior to the HD softtail. So I ask, how can you make such a statement. How many Harleys have you owned in your lifetime to know that BMW is superior?


Not a damn one, nor would I. I don't own things because they have a certain name on them, especially when superior options are available at or even below the same price point.

How many BMWs have you owned?



Zero. However I didn't make the claim that HD was a more superior manufacture now did I? I usually don't give an opinion unless I have tried both products.
Link Posted: 7/11/2008 12:06:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
Zero. However I didn't make the claim that HD was a more superior manufacture now did I? I usually don't give an opinion unless I have tried both products.


Well...you kind of implied it, here:


Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
If your even considering trading your softail off for a foreign job your not worthy to be on a Harley in the first place.


Anyway, has the OP made up his mind yet?

Link Posted: 7/11/2008 12:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2008 12:07:50 PM EDT by DanielT]

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
How many Harleys have you owned in your lifetime to know that BMW is superior?


Not a damn one



So what you said earlier was no more then a big truckload full of bull shit right? Right.

Next.


Sure kid, you go ahead and keep justifying your purchase to yourself.
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