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Posted: 9/6/2004 8:16:01 AM EST
Can anybody give an eval on these vechicles such as dependability and over-all ruggedness? I mean real world users who depend on these vehicles off-road everyday?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:20:01 AM EST
Toyota, and can show the video to prove its the best.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:20:58 AM EST
Toyota wins.

No need for further discussion.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:21:52 AM EST
Toyota...... Oh the horror story's with my Chevy . WarDawg
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:22:12 AM EST
Land Rover is for pussy English sportman prepies that "go offroading" and might hit a pebble.
Chevy? Well, yeah, whatever.

Nissan and Toyota? If you roll it over a cliff, it MIGHT get a few dents.

Dude, some people here may say nasty things about Nissan and Toyota... but they are the best damn vehicles I've ever been in.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:24:17 AM EST
Reliability....dependability....ruggedness ?????

Toyota


I have my personal Toyota 4x4s and the many that I work on for regular customers who use them an awful lot off road. They range from early 80s trucks and 4runners up the newest versions.
Regular maintenance and keep right on going.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:24:28 AM EST
Toyota, from a born and bred Chevy man.

My '89 has 193K miles, doesn't leak or burn any oil, still runs like a scalded dog.

I've replaced the alternator and starter. (clutch, shocks and brakes, too, but that's to be expected)

I'd love to be faithful enough to buy another Chevy-I had a 4WD S10 that crapped out at 89K miles-but unfortunately economics will prevail upon me to buy another Toyota IF I ever need a new vehicle.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:29:25 AM EST
Right off the bat Im biased - I own Toyotas and Land Rovers, Wouldnt buy a Rover after 1983. If you buy a Rover prepare yourself for sharp depreciation and plan ownership only as long as the warranty. Ford's done a decent job improving quality (ala Jaguar), and they've always performed well offroad (how often are you really wheeling), but I cannot recommend Rover for most people. For a rare few, yes. But for most people, they are better off elsewhere. FWIW, being a Rover guy, its odd my newest is '78. Keep this in mind.

Ambivalent about the others - tho the Titan is not getting good press ATM. Ive owned Ford F150s and an Explorer and there was nothing wrong with them. But my experience with Toyota has been better overall. No direct experience with GM.

Luck
Alac

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:29:27 AM EST
Just look at the old trucks still running. Mostly Nissan, Toyota and dodges that are Mitsibushi imports.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:31:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
Land Rover is for pussy English sportman prepies that "go offroading" and might hit a pebble.



Heh you've obviously never met Bill Burke, seen the last Paris Dakar, been to Moab, or talked to a US Army Ranger. Otherwise I dont disagree.

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:34:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alacrity:
tho the Titan is not getting good press ATM.



www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7272&page_number=1

I don't know, it's a pretty good report.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:34:07 AM EST
thanx everyone. i wondered why i haven't seen Ford/Chevy trucks in the pics from the news. Does anyone think Ford/Chevy/GMC can even compete in real world circumstances versus the known power and dependability of Nissan/Toyota , or do you think they will stay catering to citified pussies who can't even drive in 2" of snow?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:34:33 AM EST
Toyota. I have a pretty old one that's still running great and one that's only a few years old and kicks ass.

Why isn't Dodge on your list?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:36:10 AM EST

ACCELERATION (Seconds)
Zero to 30 mph: 2.4
40 mph: 3.6
50 mph: 5.2
60 mph: 6.9
70 mph: 9.2
80 mph: 11.9
90 mph: 15.1
100 mph: 19.6
110 mph: 28.3
Street start, 5–60 mph 7.1
Top-gear acceleration, 30–50 mph: 3.5
50–70 mph: 4.7
Standing 1/4-mile: 15.4 sec @ 91 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 114 mph



This is a 5,000lbs truck, btw.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:36:26 AM EST
Do some diggin about the transmission issues and a few other things. They'll get it sorted out, but ATM, I'd sit on the sidelines. I'd google it for ya, but Im lazy on Labor day and Im sure someone else will pop in with the info.

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:36:51 AM EST
BLY, i didn't think to even add Daimler's products. How 'bout it, do you have any experience with Dodge trucks (real world experience)?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:39:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alacrity:
Do some diggin about the transmission issues and a few other things. They'll get it sorted out, but ATM, I'd sit on the sidelines. I'd google it for ya, but Im lazy on Labor day and Im sure someone else will pop in with the info.

Luck
Alac




Smooth, powerful V8 puts Titan among quickest full-size trucks off the line, delivers ample passing power, and provides competitive 9500-lb towing capacity. Transmission upshifts smoothly, downshifts promptly.


http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/37451

All vehicle models have transmission issues, however.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:41:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By sknnr:
thanx everyone. i wondered why i haven't seen Ford/Chevy trucks in the pics from the news. Does anyone think Ford/Chevy/GMC can even compete in real world circumstances versus the known power and dependability of Nissan/Toyota , or do you think they will stay catering to citified pussies who can't even drive in 2" of snow?



Ford/Chevy/GMC still produce very good fullsize diesel pickup trucks. The best in the world, of course its nearly a singularly American product. These people have alittle bit of experience with real world performance. They chose Ford.

http://www.turtleexpedition.com

This discussion is quickly going to devolve into a NASCAR rant <FORD> <Chevy> <Ford SUX> etc. But the difference between the mfgs , in terms of quality, is much more narrow than it has ever been.

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:45:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 8:51:53 AM EST by MillerSHO]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:46:37 AM EST
Alacrity, i should have said "I'm looking for a rock-climbing sand-driving mud-racing wall-crawling dependable rugged 4x4 evaluations" good link though..
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:49:01 AM EST
And BTW, any thoughts on the unimog?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:50:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:

Originally Posted By Alacrity:
Do some diggin about the transmission issues and a few other things. They'll get it sorted out, but ATM, I'd sit on the sidelines. I'd google it for ya, but Im lazy on Labor day and Im sure someone else will pop in with the info.

Luck
Alac




Smooth, powerful V8 puts Titan among quickest full-size trucks off the line, delivers ample passing power, and provides competitive 9500-lb towing capacity. Transmission upshifts smoothly, downshifts promptly.


http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/37451

All vehicle models have transmission issues, however.



The latest fullsize American trucks have done a pretty good job in comparison. The current GM/Allisons have the edge as far as autos. The NV manuals are hard to beat and hold up very well.

The issues with the Titan have been widely acknowledged - even by Nissan; From the Wash Post amongst others:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
St. Louis, Mo: Hey Warren. Any word on the progress of the 200 engineers Nissan sent from Japan to "fix" the on going issues with the Armada/QX56/Titan/Quest? Where were these guys when the quality control testing was going on? And lastly, how can an automobile company not know how to fix a vibrating roof? That really seems like it should have been covered in auto building 101.

Warren Brown: Hello, St. Louis:
Well, I didn't take any of them with me on this trip. Just Mary Anne and lawyer daughter. On the Armada/QX56 roof rumble, they supposedly have found a way to reduce that irritating vibration. On Titan fix and finish problems; they are putting more quality controls into the plant at Canton, Miss. On quest transmission complaints, nothing on that yet. Will check.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:50:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By sknnr:
And BTW, any thoughts on the unimog?



Why not get Deuce-and-a-half?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:52:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By sknnr:
And BTW, any thoughts on the unimog?



If you like tractors they are very nice. Get one in IH orange. Spend some road time in one and you will undestand - very capable tho, with cost to prove it.

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:53:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Alacrity:
The latest fullsize American trucks have done a pretty good job in comparison.



...But have they done it for $29,000?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:00:07 AM EST
Toyota. I've had the misfortune of owning a Rover when I was young and stupid. I've owned Fords and Chevys. I have had friends with Nissans, Dodge, Mitsubishi, etc.

The only thing made in America that I can recommend with the Toyota is the Dodge Ram with a Cummins Diesel. The rest of the truck will rot away before that engine and frame fail.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:00:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:

Originally Posted By Alacrity:
The latest fullsize American trucks have done a pretty good job in comparison.



...But have they done it for $29,000?



I think your looking to the wrong guy to defend the Big3 (Well big 1, slowly succumbing 2). But if cost was the only object we'd all be driving Yugos. Theres nothing wrong, and much quite admirable, with GM/Ford/DC engineering. In general I think Detroits sqaundered talent and their lead, but I find good engineering its own reward. I like the Titan, but I wouldnt take the dip yet. With me, Nissan gets no more of a pass on rep then the Big3 does. Others may be more comforatble with the risk.

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:01:45 AM EST
I can't speak for all land rovers, but the Discover that we have is a POS. The window mechanism has broken in both of the front windows, it's had transmission problems, brake problems, is currently having AC problems, has a shitty suspension, and drives like a yacht. All the electric work at least used to be done by Lucas, often referred to as Lucifer for their poor quality, but I don't know if they've improved or gotten worse since they were bought by Ford.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:08:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 9:15:31 AM EST by Alacrity]

Originally Posted By sknnr:
Alacrity, i should have said "I'm looking for a rock-climbing sand-driving mud-racing wall-crawling dependable rugged 4x4 evaluations" good link though..



Ahhh. Hit Pirate 4x4 then.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/

You'll learn more than you wanted to know (including the fact that nothing stock off the shelf is going to work well for long.) Ease in over there, its kinda rabid, but its the real deal - no Discoweb/BinderBulletin/etc poser shit.

FU newbie

Get used to it

Luck
Alac

Light, Cheap, Strong - Pick 2
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:20:33 AM EST
No one has mentioned JEEP?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:21:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 9:22:34 AM EST by GTTacoma]
Reliability and ruggedness offroad?

TOYOTA

They're small and they're not great haulers.. but nothing else comes close in reliability and ruggedness.

Watch this video of a Car and driver type TV show trying to kill an old toyota hilux through abuse.

www.funpedia.net/clips/165.zip

It's a pretty cool video. They submerge it in the ocean, drop it, crash it, and everything else and it still runs.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:23:53 AM EST
+1 on Toyota. If you got the bucks, get one. They aren't as smooth as say a GMC or Ford, but they are FAR more relieable and they hold their value!
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:27:36 AM EST
Nissan for compact & Ford or Nissan for fullsize
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:35:33 AM EST
Hey Alac, YOU DA MAN!! booked marked the link, and that is way too much information :) .
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:36:35 AM EST
ComputerGuy, what about jeeps?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:37:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 9:40:45 AM EST by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:45:33 AM EST
Any excuse to show a pic of a Tactical Tacoma is welcome.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:47:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By sknnr:
ComputerGuy, what about jeeps?



Jeep hasn't made a pick-up since the Commanche, discontinued at least 15 years ago. I don't know why, it seems natural, but for whatever reason they haven't.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:12:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Been off roading most of my life, can't wait to see one of those Toyota's out there.

Bottomline is simple, you serious off road, you are going to break shit anybodies shit. The cost to repair imports makes them not practical off road.

What's out there doing it instead of showing pictures......Jeep, Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. These you can buy parts for and fix.

Tj



Ill remember that when i pick up my new Dana 60 axles - hehe WAY cheaper then Toyota - not. Oww I got a nosebleed thinking about it. Ok they are a little trick, but still I humbly dissent, I dont see much cost difference between Toyota P/U and domestics. If you will learn your truck, fix the weaknesses, build a pool of knowledge and parts, they all work. Napa has stuff for everyone, as do the boneyards. Theres quite a bit of aftermarket for Toyota and volume breeds its own cost savings. Think this is the only time TJ and I disagree. Domsetic guys have a hard time with technical stuff like cameras anyway.

Last I was out, and this year sucked for me, wheeling wise, I didnt see any Dodges, I dont remember seeing any Toyotas either. But I did see a whole shitload of Rovers (only a few broke), a double shitload of Jeeps (more broke - the abuse quotient was higher), couple of Scouts (they were pre-broke and limped along – least none broke in half), and a few full size Trucks (K5 Blzers, P/Us etc). No idea if they were broken; they appeared to be beer coolers and didnt move. I like all trucks.

Sknnr, glad you liked it, some good info there, but until its apparent who knows WTF they are talking about, take it with a grain of salt. Ive seen some dangerous opinions expressed over there. They get shouted down fast, but theres def some darwin in action goin on. Good info anyway. Buy a welder.

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:22:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 10:23:20 AM EST by Max_Mike]
In a recent JD Power survey of problems owners reported with vehicles Toyota raked above all the others you list but not by much. Except Land Rover which was DEAD LAST in the survey of about 30 different brands with about 5 TIMES as many reported problems that Toyota.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:36:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:37:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Been off roading most of my life, can't wait to see one of those Toyota's out there.

Bottomline is simple, you serious off road, you are going to break shit anybodies shit. The cost to repair imports makes them not practical off road.

What's out there doing it instead of showing pictures......Jeep, Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. These you can buy parts for and fix.

Tj



Exactly!

This is the car-buyer eqivalent of the whole amateur vs. professional issue regarding tactics and logistics. Logistics is everything to those not playing airsoft or watching bad movies. People keep talking about the Toyota Tacomas in Afghanistan - those were picked in large part because Toyota is the easiest to support over there. Sure, they are great trucks - but you have to consider the big picture when making purchasing decisions. If you can get the parts, support and maintenance expertise on your Toyota where you are in the states, fine. Otherwise, stick with the stuff that the industry / hobby / location is most used to supporting.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:40:46 AM EST
Most relaible small truck: Toyota

Best Truck: Chevy

Best off road vehicle: Jeep.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:42:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 10:46:21 AM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Sturmwehr:
Nissan and Toyota? If you roll it over a cliff, it MIGHT get a few dents.




From responding to several hundred injury traffic collisons, i can tell you that full sized Chevy trucks and SUVs do very well. Toyota trucks do not. I've pulled several dead bodies out of toyota trucks this summer. They are not sturdy vehicles.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:47:31 AM EST
AGNTSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

im just happy as a pig in shit with my big block chevy, thank you very much
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:57:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Been off roading most of my life, can't wait to see one of those Toyota's out there.

Bottomline is simple, you serious off road, you are going to break shit anybodies shit. The cost to repair imports makes them not practical off road.

What's out there doing it instead of showing pictures......Jeep, Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. These you can buy parts for and fix.

Tj



Exactly!

This is the car-buyer eqivalent of the whole amateur vs. professional issue regarding tactics and logistics. Logistics is everything to those not playing airsoft or watching bad movies. People keep talking about the Toyota Tacomas in Afghanistan - those were picked in large part because Toyota is the easiest to support over there. Sure, they are great trucks - but you have to consider the big picture when making purchasing decisions. If you can get the parts, support and maintenance expertise on your Toyota where you are in the states, fine. Otherwise, stick with the stuff that the industry / hobby / location is most used to supporting.



Only one problem......
The Tacomas they shipped over are produced and sold in America only. The trucks sold everywhere else in the world use different components, engines, transmissions, suspensions etc...
So the parts needed for those particular Tacomas would have to come from the U.S. and then shipped to other nations to repair the U.S. Toyotas there.
A Tacoma in the rest of the world might look similar at first glance to the ones here but it probably has a solid front axle assy, a deisel engine, different wiring and other parts and could be either right or left hand drive.
So easy access to parts was not a factor but I'll bet reliability was.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:18:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 11:21:35 AM EST by 30calTBLkid]
i sold my 97 tacoma at 113k miles. never had a problem. at all. did some rough shit in it too. i lived in south texas at the time, but hunted everywhere. it was a five speed four cyl. i lifted it 2 inches(coil overs from day star) and ran 32 11.50 bfgs. with a downey clutch in it and factory gears(think they were 4.10's) it went anywhere a full size would, and then some.

never had a chevy truck, but i know some guys that love em and some that hate em.

had fords. dated fat women before too. but i liked my fullsize bronco. however ford dont build like that any more.

now i've got a dodge. i would have got a toyota, but i needed a full size, and cant afford/dont like the tundra.

i like the dodges solid front axel, but I'm already saving up for a transmission kit. it works fine, it's just a little soft in the shifting dept.

edit:i would have keep the tacoma longer, but i had a wild hair up my ass about getting a z-28 before they quit making them. now that was a fun 13 months!
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:19:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 11:21:15 AM EST by Adam_White]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Been off roading most of my life, can't wait to see one of those Toyota's out there.

Bottomline is simple, you serious off road, you are going to break shit anybodies shit. The cost to repair imports makes them not practical off road.

What's out there doing it instead of showing pictures......Jeep, Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. These you can buy parts for and fix.

Tj



Exactly!

This is the car-buyer eqivalent of the whole amateur vs. professional issue regarding tactics and logistics. Logistics is everything to those not playing airsoft or watching bad movies. People keep talking about the Toyota Tacomas in Afghanistan - those were picked in large part because Toyota is the easiest to support over there. Sure, they are great trucks - but you have to consider the big picture when making purchasing decisions. If you can get the parts, support and maintenance expertise on your Toyota where you are in the states, fine. Otherwise, stick with the stuff that the industry / hobby / location is most used to supporting.



Only one problem......
The Tacomas they shipped over are produced and sold in America only. The trucks sold everywhere else in the world use different components, engines, transmissions, suspensions etc...
So the parts needed for those particular Tacomas would have to come from the U.S. and then shipped to other nations to repair the U.S. Toyotas there.
A Tacoma in the rest of the world might look similar at first glance to the ones here but it probably has a solid front axle assy, a deisel engine, different wiring and other parts and could be either right or left hand drive.
So easy access to parts was not a factor but I'll bet reliability was.



If they did indeed ship them fro the states - then that is an entirely different story. I was not aware of that. I don;t claim to understand the purchasing decisions of SF.

I have be-bopped around a few deserts in Toyota trucks compliments of Uncle Sam (we never had machine gun mounts, though ) and all of them were always locally purchased (or as local as feasible). Toyota is a powerhouse in much of the world (except Korea, good luck finding a Toyota in Korea).
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:20:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By 30calTBLkid:
i sold my 97 tacoma at 113k miles. never had a problem. at all. did some rough shit in it too. i lived in south texas at the time, but hunted everywhere. it was a five speed four cyl. i lifted it 2 inches(coil overs from day star) and ran 32 11.50 bfgs. with a downey clutch in it and factory gears(think they were 4.10's) it went anywhere a full size would, and then some.

never had a chevy truck, but i know some guys that love em and some that hate em.

had fords. dated fat women before too. but i liked my fullsize bronco. however ford dont build like that any more.

now i've got a dodge. i would have got a toyota, but i needed a full size, and cant afford/dont like the tundra.

i like the dodges solid front axel, but I'm already saving up for a transmission kit. it works fine, it's just a little soft in the shifting dept.



funny, i remember my chevy saving your ass a few times!!!!!!!!! fag, give me a call, damnit................ oh ya, and are they gonna deploy you soon or what?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:23:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Been off roading most of my life, can't wait to see one of those Toyota's out there.

Bottomline is simple, you serious off road, you are going to break shit anybodies shit. The cost to repair imports makes them not practical off road.

What's out there doing it instead of showing pictures......Jeep, Dodge, Chevy, and Ford. These you can buy parts for and fix.

Tj



Exactly!

This is the car-buyer eqivalent of the whole amateur vs. professional issue regarding tactics and logistics. Logistics is everything to those not playing airsoft or watching bad movies. People keep talking about the Toyota Tacomas in Afghanistan - those were picked in large part because Toyota is the easiest to support over there. Sure, they are great trucks - but you have to consider the big picture when making purchasing decisions. If you can get the parts, support and maintenance expertise on your Toyota where you are in the states, fine. Otherwise, stick with the stuff that the industry / hobby / location is most used to supporting.



Only one problem......
The Tacomas they shipped over are produced and sold in America only. The trucks sold everywhere else in the world use different components, engines, transmissions, suspensions etc...
So the parts needed for those particular Tacomas would have to come from the U.S. and then shipped to other nations to repair the U.S. Toyotas there.
A Tacoma in the rest of the world might look similar at first glance to the ones here but it probably has a solid front axle assy, a deisel engine, different wiring and other parts and could be either right or left hand drive.
So easy access to parts was not a factor but I'll bet reliability was.



If they did indeed ship them fro the states - then that is an entirely different story. I wa snot ware of that.

I have be-bopped around a few deserts in Toyota trucks compliments of Uncle Sam (we never had machine gun mounts, though ) and all of them were always locally purchased (or as local as feasible). Toyota is a powerhouse in much of the world (except Korea, good luck finding a Toyota in Korea).



Given the choice, I would LOVE to be able to buy the trucks and especially the Land Cruisers that the rest of the world gets.
The Tacomas with the diesel and solid axle are tough trucks.
The land cruisers are the real deal, not the pussyfied country club wagons they sell here.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:31:25 AM EST
txredneck:
yes, a chevy pulled my ford out. that was indeed a sad day. however, a chevy never pulled my toyota out...but you did pull my brother out. had i remembered to put it in 4 low, i wouldnt have had that problem. damn hangovers.

dont know anything else about deployment.
will see you in about 2 weeks. bringing some ammo. you do same. may need more. wife bitching about ammo bills, and being too sumthin sumthin, waddint really listening.

will order cmp garands after leave.

waiting on buddy to call to go to range right now. had guard duty till this morning.
hijack complete
rounds deplete
30cal out.
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