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Posted: 10/29/2006 10:06:50 PM EST
By Total citiczen tax burden I mean everything you pay in taxes Fed, State, and City.


Here in Louisiana the Tax burden is not top 10 but it is high but to the voter/citiczen why does this not bother them more?

Think about it for a minute.

1. Social Security
2. Income tax State and Fed
3. Gas tax 34.5 cents here state/fed per gallon
4. Subsidised goods Milk/Bread/Cheese/Eggs/etc.
5. Sales tax
6. Property tax
7. Vice/Excise i.e. Alcohol/Tobacco/Firearms
8. Death/estate tax
9. Capitol Gains
10. Licenses Driver/Hunting/Zoning/Alcohol services/CCW

I'm sure I missed a few too

Why have we as a people allowed this to continue? The government gets tax revenue from so many places it would make the best extortionist blush with admiration and envy. What gives is the public that ignorrant?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:21:44 PM EST
Is it that slow tonight?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:26:42 PM EST
Inattention, Ignorance, Stupidity and the herd mentality.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 10:28:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By NH_AR_Shooter:
Inattention, Ignorance, Stupidity and the herd mentality.



I think apathy and dislike of politics contributes too.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:02:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:22:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Mainly because they are for the most part hidden. I wish on income tax at least they would pass a law that instead of payroll deduction we had to write a check to each .gov entitiy for each tax. Sort of like self employed except a separate check for each tax.


Income withholding turned every employer in the country into tax collectors, it is the very foundation of our present tax system. The congress will never vote away this abomination.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:29:50 PM EST
Well, we could always organize on of these:



If we weren't shitting ourselves worrying about following 922r regs and the like. Guess those guys back then didn't have much to lose.

Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:33:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2006 11:35:32 PM EST by Sagus]
My dream (while still being realistic):

9% Federal income tax
3% Social Security income tax
3% State income tax (capped at 3% by Federal Law)
.5% County income tax (see above)

Tax brackets are gone - you pay the same percentage regardless of whether you make $5 or $5 million.

Property taxes, sales taxes, luxury taxes, medicare taxes, vehicle taxes, death taxes, and everything else with the word "tax" in it are abolished. The state income may be a little high at 3%, but they'll need to find a way to finance the extremely underpopulated counties through the state.

I don't know how this should be applied to businesses, as I've never been involved in the finances of one. I would think the same as above could be applied to business profits, but not sure.

That's it. Municipalities and counties/parish's will have to work together to figure out who gets what. Maybe I'm a bit nieve for thinking this way, but i'm sure that if I am, someone here will point it out.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:43:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sagus:
Maybe I'm a bit nieve for thinking this way, but i'm sure that if I am, someone here will point it out.



You're nieve. Not because I disagree with what you're saying, but because I know you.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:53:07 AM EST
Here are some more

Accounts Receivable Tax
> > Building Permit Tax
> > CDL License Tax
> > Cigarette Tax
> > Corporate Income Tax
> > Dog License Tax
> > Federal Income Tax
> > Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
> > Fishing License Tax
> > Food License Tax
> > Fuel Permit Tax Gasoline Tax
> > Hunting License Tax
> > Inheritance Tax Interest expense
> > Inventory Tax
> > IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax),
> > IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax),
> > Liquor Tax,
> > Luxury Taxes,
> > Marriage License Tax,
> > Medicare Tax,
> > Property
> > Tax, Real Estate Tax, Service charge taxes,
> > Social Security Tax,
> > Road usage taxes (Truckers),
> > Sales Taxes,
> > Recreational Vehicle Tax,
> > School Tax,
> > State Income Tax,
> > State Unemployment Tax (SUTA),
> > Telephone federal excise tax,
> > Telephone federal universal service fee tax,
> > Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes,
> > Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax,
> > Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax,
> > Telephone state and local tax,
> > Telephone usage charge tax,
> > Utility Taxes,
> > Vehicle License Registration Tax,
> > Vehicle Sales Tax,
> > Watercraft Registration Tax,
> > Well Permit Tax,
> > Workers Compensation Tax.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:08:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
By Total citiczen tax burden I mean everything you pay in taxes Fed, State, and City.


Here in Louisiana the Tax burden is not top 10 but it is high but to the voter/citiczen why does this not bother them more?

Think about it for a minute.

1. Social Security
2. Income tax State and Fed
3. Gas tax 34.5 cents here state/fed per gallon
4. Subsidised goods Milk/Bread/Cheese/Eggs/etc.
5. Sales tax
6. Property tax
7. Vice/Excise i.e. Alcohol/Tobacco/Firearms
8. Death/estate tax
9. Capitol Gains
10. Licenses Driver/Hunting/Zoning/Alcohol services/CCW

I'm sure I missed a few too

Why have we as a people allowed this to continue? The government gets tax revenue from so many places it would make the best extortionist blush with admiration and envy. What gives is the public that ignorrant?


1) We haven't 'allowed it to continue', we are reducing the 'major' taxes lately...

2) The idea is that rather than getting revenue for all government functions from a single source, some 'tax' or 'fee' money should be taken only from those who use the service it supports... Hunting licenses, for example, fund many state wildlife programs that only hunters use (in theory anyway)... The gas tax is supposed to pay for road work (but unfortunately gets squandered on mass transit, etc)....

As for the excise tax, that one is as old as the nation itself... Whiskey Rebellion... President Washington in personal command of federalzed state militia... Remember?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:19:26 AM EST
Most of the direct taxation is withheld from your paycheck.

There would be 100 million screaming citizens with guns in DC if they had to sit down a write a check to the government once a year for 30% of their income.


Well, actually, there would be 100 million people in jail for tax evasion.....
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:31:21 AM EST
Here is your answer www.fairtax.org
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:39:16 AM EST
taxes just piss me off living in ohio where number 2 now in the country highest taxes Our taxes here might go down if we where not pissing most of the budget away on welfare and medicaid system think anyone running for office has bought this up NO. Your right we need another tea party
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 2:45:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By BUCKEYEBULLET:
taxes just piss me off living in ohio where number 2 now in the country highest taxes Our taxes here might go down if we where not pissing most of the budget away on welfare and medicaid system think anyone running for office has bought this up NO. Your right we need another tea party


Ohio has a billion dollars in the rainy day fund, you should be proud.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:03:46 AM EST
35% of what I make goes to the .gov
25% of what I make goes to child support. (with no tax break on it)

Gotta love getting to keep 45% of my salary

TXL
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:07:27 AM EST
Many people only pay half of the taxes on your list, and are too drunk, high or selfish to care about the rest.

1. Social Security
2. Income tax State and Fed
3. Gas tax 34.5 cents here state/fed per gallon
4. Subsidised goods Milk/Bread/Cheese/Eggs/etc.
5. Sales tax
6. Property tax
7. Vice/Excise i.e. Alcohol/Tobacco/Firearms
8. Death/estate tax
9. Capitol Gains
10. Licenses Driver/Hunting/Zoning/Alcohol services/CCW
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:08:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
35% of what I make goes to the .gov
25% of what I make goes to child support. (with no tax break on it)

Gotta love getting to keep 45% of my salary

TXL


Don't forget about 12% of it goes to Social Security.

THen don't forget all the other taxes you have to pay that are just rolled up into the prices of everything. Keepeing 45% would look GOOD if you REALLY looked at all the taxes you are paying.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:14:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
35% of what I make goes to the .gov
25% of what I make goes to child support. (with no tax break on it)

Gotta love getting to keep 45% of my salary

TXL


Dude, I hate to burst your bubble... You only get 40%.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:16:20 AM EST
paper cuts... a million little paper cuts....
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:25:28 AM EST
Sure it bothers me. A hell of alot. What can I do about it?
What politicians do you see leading the charge against it?


Speaking of politicians, their salaries bug me a hell of alot too.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:44:41 AM EST
I would love to see a flat federal sales tax and no income tax.

Make the illegals pay tax on all the shit they buy. I bet were talking billions of new revenue.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:47:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By efpeter:

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
35% of what I make goes to the .gov
25% of what I make goes to child support. (with no tax break on it)

Gotta love getting to keep 45% of my salary

TXL


Dude, I hate to burst your bubble... You only get 40%.



Link Posted: 10/30/2006 4:01:15 AM EST
Most of my Senators and Representatives have blocked my email addresses.

They won't discuss ANY issues with me.

I'm not going to dress up like an Indian, but I'm ready....
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:32:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Here is your answer www.fairtax.org


Percentage they envision is too damn high. It also does not fold up Gov agencies it just retask them. "Deck chairs on the titanic".
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:35:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By D348:
Many people only pay half of the taxes on your list, and are too drunk, high or selfish to care about the rest.

1. Social Security
2. Income tax State and Fed
3. Gas tax 34.5 cents here state/fed per gallon
4. Subsidised goods Milk/Bread/Cheese/Eggs/etc.
5. Sales tax
6. Property tax
7. Vice/Excise i.e. Alcohol/Tobacco/Firearms
8. Death/estate tax
9. Capitol Gains
10. Licenses Driver/Hunting/Zoning/Alcohol services/CCW



Government gets its take in many ways, where some may not pay 1/2 of whats on the initial lists I assure you they make up for the revenue loss somewhere.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:36:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scottman:
paper cuts... a million little paper cuts....


Sounds familiar.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:46:28 AM EST
We could get rid of taxes tommorow if citizens didn't DEMAND services.

No one wants to pay FICA. How many people that are eligibile for Social Security don't cash the checks?

No one wants to pay local taxes. How many people repair the road in front of their house, or plow thier route to work, or pay the state college their kid goes to the full amount of what it actually costs fore their child to attend the school?

We could get into Courts, police, fire, EMS, jails..................................... etc, if they all went away how many problems would start happening 5 minutes later?

Or pay the cost of your kids going to public school, hint it would cost as much as private school etc.

If it was pay as you use services, I think you would have troubles with those costs too.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 11:48:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By TxLewis:
35% of what I make goes to the .gov
25% of what I make goes to child support. (with no tax break on it)

Gotta love getting to keep 45% of my salary

TXL


Looks like my budget except for

35% to .gov
25% to child support
11% to provide insurance
7% to cover doctor bills

People have no f'n idea how badly guys get f'd in divorce court.

For the taxes, I'll go with people are not bothered because they have no idea how much they are paying and everyone else has bought into the 'pay your fair share' paradigm.

No one questions the basic idea of taxes any more, no one questions why they are paying so much, every one just shakes thir head and cracks open another beer during another sports program commercial and tries to forget about it in the sea of diversions we have created to keep our minds occupied otherwise known as pop-culture.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:08:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:09:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
We could get rid of taxes tommorow if citizens didn't DEMAND services. True

No one wants to pay FICA. How many people that are eligibile for Social Security don't cash the checks? I'm 26 I will never draw S.S. but I will certainly have it taken from me, mandatory personal savings would be better

No one wants to pay local taxes. How many people repair the road in front of their house, or plow thier route to work, or pay the state college their kid goes to the full amount of what it actually costs fore their child to attend the school? Roads/means of commerce is one of the few things government should do. As far as schools comnpetition would drive prices if privatized also if all paid cost would go down.

We could get into Courts, police, fire, EMS, jails..................................... etc, if they all went away how many problems would start happening 5 minutes later? End the prohibition on drugs and we would need half as many cops and prisons as well the courts would be slower., Fire can be privatized so can jails.

Or pay the cost of your kids going to public school, hint it would cost as much as private school etc.

If it was pay as you use services, I think you would have troubles with those costs too.
It can be done, best of all removing government from the equasion will only lower costs.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:10:57 PM EST
Are there more laws or less laws since the US Congress began operations?

More.

Tell me why exactly we have a legislature that does nothing but add more laws, and hence more taxes. IMO Legislatures are a piss poor component of government.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:14:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
Are there more laws or less laws since the US Congress began operations?

More.

Tell me why exactly we have a legislature that does nothing but add more laws, and hence more taxes. IMO Legislatures are a piss poor component of government.


You prefer a dictatorship? Get the U.S.S.C. to reinterpit the Commerce Clause and tyhey will not be able to legislate as much.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:18:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
Are there more laws or less laws since the US Congress began operations?

More.

Tell me why exactly we have a legislature that does nothing but add more laws, and hence more taxes. IMO Legislatures are a piss poor component of government.


You prefer a dictatorship? Get the U.S.S.C. to reinterpit the Commerce Clause and tyhey will not be able to legislate as much.


Not having a legislature does not mean you have a dictatorship.

The constitution (ie new laws) can be passed by making admentments to said document by national referedum with 2/3rds needed. If not enough people car to pass it as a admendment to the constitution then its not a law. Courts still interpret, the excutive branch still does its thing and is elected, and the congress can still have oversight functions and budget allocation functions and even sponsor national referendums, but it can't vote new laws.

Why do we need more laws as time goes on? Most things are not drastically different now than when they were 150 or 200 years ago. Murder is murder, stealing is stealing.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:26:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paveway_:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
Are there more laws or less laws since the US Congress began operations?

More.

Tell me why exactly we have a legislature that does nothing but add more laws, and hence more taxes. IMO Legislatures are a piss poor component of government.


You prefer a dictatorship? Get the U.S.S.C. to reinterpit the Commerce Clause and tyhey will not be able to legislate as much.


Not having a legislature does not mean you have a dictatorship.

The constitution (ie new laws) can be passed by making admentments to said document by national referedum with 2/3rds needed. If not enough people car to pass it as a admendment to the constitution then its not a law. Courts still interpret, the excutive branch still does its thing and is elected, and the congress can still have oversight functions and budget allocation functions and even sponsor national referendums, but it can't vote new laws.

Why do we need more laws as time goes on? Most things are not drastically different now than when they were 150 or 200 years ago. Murder is murder, stealing is stealing.


I can't even imagine the costs of having a fucking national vote on every single law that comes up.

Better idea: clean out Congress
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:40:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By Paveway_:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By Paveway_:
Are there more laws or less laws since the US Congress began operations?

More.

Tell me why exactly we have a legislature that does nothing but add more laws, and hence more taxes. IMO Legislatures are a piss poor component of government.


You prefer a dictatorship? Get the U.S.S.C. to reinterpit the Commerce Clause and tyhey will not be able to legislate as much.


Not having a legislature does not mean you have a dictatorship.

The constitution (ie new laws) can be passed by making admentments to said document by national referedum with 2/3rds needed. If not enough people car to pass it as a admendment to the constitution then its not a law. Courts still interpret, the excutive branch still does its thing and is elected, and the congress can still have oversight functions and budget allocation functions and even sponsor national referendums, but it can't vote new laws.

Why do we need more laws as time goes on? Most things are not drastically different now than when they were 150 or 200 years ago. Murder is murder, stealing is stealing.


I can't even imagine the costs of having a fucking national vote on every single law that comes up.

Better idea: clean out Congress


from wikipedia- "In particular, barring major scandal or controversy, about 95% of congressional incumbents win re-election to their seats."

Good fucking luck with that. It takes two generation just to get some of these asshaters in Congress to die in office. Then guess what- their fucking wife gets their seat or their son/daughter runs and gets elected merely because of their name.

I've finally gotten used to the fact that we live in an oligarchy. Isn't it great that we live a country where the son of a President can become President ?

For some odd reason (CORRUPTION), it just doesn't add up. Why spend MILLIONS of dollars to campaign for an office that pays tens of thousands of dollars ?

We live in interesting times. I'm waiting for Armageddon and prayin' for the Rapture. It's the only thing that will give the country back to the people who pay for it. Well maybe an asteroid strike, EMP attack, bird flu, military coup, Mexican Intifada.

Sorry guys, I'm headin' back to the survival forum to bury my guns with beans and rice.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 12:43:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By go3:
I can't even imagine the costs of having a fucking national vote on every single law that comes up.

Better idea: clean out Congress


Thats the fucking point, it would be impossible to keep passing bullshit laws that have little impact on the well being of the citizenry.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 1:42:59 PM EST
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