Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 3/4/2010 9:46:07 AM EDT
Anyone have a partial tear?  Not enough to require surgery, according to the quack here, but enough that makes your arm feel weak?  I can't go all out on some lifts because I'm worried about doing more damage.    I do alot of dumbbell,( or used to), lifts that isolate the arms individually, but maybe I should go back to using more barbell?  

Cause of injury was from lifting a refrigerator into a pickup by myself, which was stupid, and something shifted in it and my arm felt like a rubber-band had just popped.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 10:51:12 AM EDT
Rest son...let it heal. You are just going to more damage doing ANY sort of resisted bicep movement.  Just give it time, no use having a full rupture happen.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 11:07:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 11:08:52 AM EDT by dhmjr40]
I'm 40 and  it's been over two years since accident.  Still feels weird but have been working around it, like no scott curls or anything that requires a long extension.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 4:06:04 PM EDT
That should be healed by now.  Did it turn black and blue, swell?  Where was the pain located when it happened, closer to shoulder, or elbow?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 4:06:54 PM EDT
Something shifted in the fridge or in your arm?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 5:08:30 PM EDT
I tore my upper left bicep last year. It's good as new now I guess except for the deformity. Find an ART practitioner in your area because I bet there is scar tissue in there. If there isn't one locally, you can do soft tissue work with a foam roller, a pvc pipe, a rolling pin, a baseball, your hand....
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 4:09:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2010 4:10:51 AM EDT by dhmjr40]
Could be.  I was picking up the refrigerator when the shelves all decided to fall making it shift a little which was apparently too much for the way I was trying to lift the dang thing.   Should have put it on a dolly and leaned it on the tailgate and pull it up instead of lifting from the ground up.  Sucks getting older.

It may be more tendon or ligament damage with the way it feels going down my elbow.  Last year, working on the house anytime I would do too much hammering, my arm would just start aching and my hand would actually go numb.

I'm just now starting to get back in the groove with weights and maybe a little gun shy about re-injury.  I was doing some leaning over concentration curls, which I usually don't do, and it got very uncomfortable.  I stopped and started doing some cross body hammer curls, which for some reason, was fine.   Just changing the angle of the muscle getting worked might be enough to get me by.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 6:50:16 AM EDT
Try and find a PT, DO, or really good chiro.  They should be specialized in manual therapy.  I have bad upper back/shoulders and when they aren't right I start to get the same issue of weakness.  The soft tissue should be healed if it was that long ago.  Where does the pain run from (shoulder to elbow)?
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 7:02:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 007Kevin:
Try and find a PT, DO, or really good chiro.  They should be specialized in manual therapy.  I have bad upper back/shoulders and when they aren't right I start to get the same issue of weakness.  The soft tissue should be healed if it was that long ago.  Where does the pain run from (shoulder to elbow)?


Inside mid arm and goes around inside elbow then cuts across towards thumb.  It may be that it's just getting fatigued and I'm reluctant to push beyond a point.  It REALLY comes out when I do  standing dumbbell curls and rotate my thumb outward at the end of the movement.  I can do a couple before it starts screaming.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 10:12:27 AM EDT
That's a tough call there.  Don't see that often.  I would still find a PT or DO who specializes in manual therapy for a final answer.
Link Posted: 3/5/2010 9:53:13 PM EDT
Wow, what are the chances. This is the first time I have ever come into this section and for a similar issue.

I woke up and felt some tenderness at the top of my left bicep and when I flexed it I noticed the bulge normally associated with a torn bicep.

The thing is though I thought they were supposed to hurt very badly at the time you tear it, yet I only noticed some soreness the next day.

Any idea on what else might cause this and if it will repair itself?
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 4:47:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2010 4:48:46 AM EDT by blake-b]
I tore mine at a defensive tactics seminar while sidestepping and using someone's momentum to help throw them past me. It healed on its own. I just didn't do anything to stress it and after a few weeks it felt good as new. If the muscle belly is torn, there is nothing you can do. You can't sew meat together. If it's a tendon that tore, you definitely need to see a doctor because tendons can be sewn back.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 4:58:19 AM EDT
Go see a new Dr !!! Been there.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 5:12:43 AM EDT
Go see an orthopedic surgeon, some partial thickness distal biceps tears do better with operative repair, but first you need a diagnosis to work from.  All the recommendations for PT, DO, ART, etc. are bull crap until you know what you're dealing with.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 6:19:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2010 6:19:44 AM EDT by 007Kevin]
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
Go see an orthopedic surgeon, some partial thickness distal biceps tears do better with operative repair, but first you need a diagnosis to work from.  All the recommendations for PT, DO, ART, etc. are bull crap until you know what you're dealing with.


First of all the injury was done a while ago, if I understood what was said.  Second, seeing a DO or PT (especially who specializes in manual therapy, which is very different from MDs and other PTs) isn't going to hurt anything as they should know what can and can't be worked on.  Third, given the nature of the injury (being diagnosed as slight tear, so he does know what it is) you would still want to see a DO or PT with specialty in manual therapy because there is a high probability that there is an issue they should resolve before getting a surgery if necessary.  Also, if a surgeon says a surgery isn't necessary, probably a good chance it isn't because that is how surgeons make money.  Not saying maybe revisit the idea since there is still an issue and the healing didn't take as much as they initially thought.  But avoiding a surgery is always concern numeral uno and seeing a DO (who can do everything an MD can, just from a different schooling perspective) or a really good PT isn't going to do any harm and will know what can and can't be done, so it's not bull crap.
Link Posted: 3/6/2010 8:03:19 PM EDT
Yes, you should see another Ortho MD.  If you are still having issues with this than you may need further imaging studies to rule out other conditions that may have developed like myositis ossification.  Secondly, you have to have a prescription to see a PT anyway, except Direct Access States.  Be careful of those work outs, if you go too heavy too quickly, it will retear.  There are several recovery workouts that can be done to facilitate the healing process but done even think about it until you get yourself checked out.

God Speed
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 5:07:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 007Kevin:
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
Go see an orthopedic surgeon, some partial thickness distal biceps tears do better with operative repair, but first you need a diagnosis to work from.  All the recommendations for PT, DO, ART, etc. are bull crap until you know what you're dealing with.


First of all the injury was done a while ago, if I understood what was said.  Second, seeing a DO or PT (especially who specializes in manual therapy, which is very different from MDs and other PTs) isn't going to hurt anything as they should know what can and can't be worked on.  Third, given the nature of the injury (being diagnosed as slight tear, so he does know what it is) you would still want to see a DO or PT with specialty in manual therapy because there is a high probability that there is an issue they should resolve before getting a surgery if necessary.  Also, if a surgeon says a surgery isn't necessary, probably a good chance it isn't because that is how surgeons make money.  Not saying maybe revisit the idea since there is still an issue and the healing didn't take as much as they initially thought.  But avoiding a surgery is always concern numeral uno and seeing a DO (who can do everything an MD can, just from a different schooling perspective) or a really good PT isn't going to do any harm and will know what can and can't be done, so it's not bull crap.


Avoiding surgery is not always "concern numero uno", the primary concern is treating the injury appropriately, sometimes surgery is the correct answer right out of the gates.  I know what a DO is, went to the same basic science classes as them in med school (they had an MD and a DO school), pass level was set 5% lower for the DO students.  Unless the DO is an orthopod, the likelihood of him/her knowing even a basic differential of elbow pain is small.

As fpr PT, with a bunch of insurances limiting the number of visits, you are generally better off getting a solid diagnosis so you don't burn all your visits prior to surgery, if it becomes necessary.  Most PTs don't have x-ray machines, can't order x-rays, aren't trained in their interpretation, ditto for MRI, CT, nuclear medicine bone scans, etc.  

Right now we can't tell if the injury is an avulsion fracture, intra-articular loose body, partial distal biceps tear, ligamentous injury, OCD lesion, OA, etc.  Going to an Orthopedic Surgeon gives you the best shot of getting the correct diagnosis and treatment, and most orthopods can direct patients to a "really good PT" if that is the best course of action.

Bottom line, if it hurts more than your typical "rub some dirt on it" boo boo, go see an Orthopedic Surgeon, the rest is bull crap.

Link Posted: 3/7/2010 7:55:02 AM EDT
You can't deny that going under the knife isn't a big risk.  Anytime you start going into the body like that it's a risk and can cause more harm than good.  Yea, it may be necessary but if possible it should be the last and only solution at that point.  Seen way too many surgeons operating to try and fix the problem (especially in an ortho situation) only to see patients with more issues.  Looking at the mechanical aspect of pain (dysfunction) isn't going to hurt anything and anyone doing it should know what they can and can't do.  Using one visit to be treated isn't going to ruin PT visits for s/p.  If it is mechanical, the patient should be able to tell a difference almost immediately.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 1:28:34 PM EDT
You can't deny that surgery is the treatment of choice in some instances, including distal biceps ruptures.  For every "really good therapist" out there, there are a bunch that will see you for 12 visits, jack up the costs with US and Iontophoresis, and then suggest an orthopod when the elbow is no better.  Make the diagnosis, then prescribe treatment.  Making the diagnosis without an x-ray will lead to missed problems like radial head fractures, etc.
Link Posted: 3/7/2010 3:46:45 PM EDT
My last post agreed sometimes surgery is the only answer.  And yes there are a bunch of PTs that are bad, that's why I said a good one.  It also sounds lke they saw a doc and didn't suspect a fracture anyway.  Fractures are usually pretty evident without an X-ray.  Talk about money makers for the hospital.  For the good docs out there, there are just as many that are not.  X-rays and MRIs especially, are way over used and overly expensive for little or insignificant information.  If docs took the time to physicaly examin patients, palpate, etc...but no we can see in the body!  Sorry, but more often than not, they show nothing.  Just by palpation a doc should have a good idea if something is broken or if muscle tissue is severly damaged, which would then warrant an x-ray or MRI.  But no, either too worried they'll get sued, don't have the skill to palpate well, or too lazy and just want the money.
Link Posted: 3/8/2010 6:26:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 007Kevin:
My last post agreed sometimes surgery is the only answer.  And yes there are a bunch of PTs that are bad, that's why I said a good one.  It also sounds lke they saw a doc and didn't suspect a fracture anyway.  Fractures are usually pretty evident without an X-ray.  Talk about money makers for the hospital.  For the good docs out there, there are just as many that are not.  X-rays and MRIs especially, are way over used and overly expensive for little or insignificant information.  If docs took the time to physicaly examin patients, palpate, etc...but no we can see in the body!  Sorry, but more often than not, they show nothing.  Just by palpation a doc should have a good idea if something is broken or if muscle tissue is severly damaged, which would then warrant an x-ray or MRI.  But no, either too worried they'll get sued, don't have the skill to palpate well, or too lazy and just want the money.


The nice thing about seeing thousands of patients in a career, and correlating their physical findings with radiographic findings and operative findings is that you can draw from that experience.  You remember the kid that died of Ewing's sarcoma in residency because the primary care doc blew off her back pain and didn't want to expose her to the radiation of an x-ray.  You remember that stuff and don't rely solely on palpation.

Recently saw an ankle injury from snowboarding, another doc (orthopod even) had made the diagnosis of sprain, didn't get an x-ray because it was a curbside consult.  I examined him and was concerned about a cuboid fracture, got the x-ray and found a calcaneus fracture at the calcaneocuboid joint.    

Sometimes you think you know for certain what is going on and you'll find a tumor or something weird on the x-ray.  After a while you develop confidence in your exam, but also the humility to know that exams aren't infallible, may vary from examiner to examiner, may vary throughout the course of a day, etc.

As they say in med school, "You may not be seeing ______, but ______ will be seeing you."




Top Top