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Posted: 1/12/2005 9:43:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 9:43:47 PM EDT by Blackgun_Fun]
I am thinking about having my HK USC .45 converted into a “UMP Semi-Auto Clone” by Top-Notch Parts. I have never had any “custom work” done on a weapon before, and I would like to know if the following is standard procedure for having work like this done?

www.top-notchparts.com/

1. They want me to pay just under $1400.00 up front via check or credit card. This money puts me on the “list” – and gets my components reserved from a parts order that has already been placed by them.

2. Then I have to wait “approximately” 10 weeks for all the parts orders to be delivered to Top Notch, and the custom U.S. made parts manufactured by their machinist.

3. After the parts arrive (approx. 10 weeks out) I will receive an email telling me to send my gun to them for the work to be performed.

4. "Approximately" 4 weeks after receiving my gun, they said I could expect the completed project to be shipped back to me.

I have heard bits and pieces about the “Special Weapons / Todd Bailey” connection this company has (feel free to tell me more), but I must say that I have spoke to several people that have had the “Grease Gun” magazine conversion done – and I have not heard any complaints about the quality of the lower receiver they supply for it.

I do not know much about the whole “T. Bailey / Special Weapons” legend – only that their HK94 clones are pretty “sub par” in most posters opinions.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:46:13 PM EDT
top-notch parts = run by Toadie(Todd Bailey) he's a cheat and a swindler. he's pure scum. my advise, do NOT do business with him. if you're familiar with his shitty products then you know what i'm talking about. This is the guy who used to run Special Weapons, LLC til he got driven out of business.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:47:27 PM EDT
Run away.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:48:22 PM EDT
Sounds like you're already hesitant.

This sounds like one of those pesky "red flags" that people hear before entering into ventures that later prove to be aggravating, regretful affairs.

I wouldn't do it, but then I'm a strange guy.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:49:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Run away.




But it looks so cool ......


Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:51:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
Sounds like you're already hesitant.

This sounds like one of those pesky "red flags" that people hear before entering into ventures that later prove to be aggravating, regretful affairs.

I wouldn't do it, but then I'm a strange guy.



Well .... I am hesitant, but I have never had a custom job done before. I just thought I would see if a 100% down payment is "industry standard" for custom work like this?

The Todd B. issue is another item I will have to decide on.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:53:29 PM EDT
for custom work it's usually all up front. but dont trust todd bailey. the man is a scam.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:55:08 PM EDT
I know that with most pistolsmiths, you pay when they have completed the work. Then they ship it back.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:56:11 PM EDT
All up front? I'd put up 50% to cover parts, but anything more is pushing it.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:59:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 10:00:34 PM EDT by Blackgun_Fun]
Can anyone tell me IN DETAIL what T. Bailey has done to people?

Has he actually stolen money (not fulfilled orders), or just not stood behind his product / warranty work?

If this guy is as bad as some of you state....maybe I should steer clear

I have never spoken to a Todd - only "Wade" who seems very nice and helpful on the phone.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 9:59:48 PM EDT
Blackgun, most of these guys have never dealt with Bailey directly. They are spewing what they heard on the internet. There are some guys here that have actual firsthand experience with Todd. SteyrAug is an example. I have purchased a SW5 kit from SW and the conversion unit for the USC from top-notch. Their business model sucks no question. But they will deliver eventually or will give you a refund eventually. Better then ARES and their fabled Shrike if you ask me. I had a deposit and bailed. I really didnt feel like giving them a long term no interest loan. If Todd had a decent personality, they would actually have done a lot better.

The made me pay for the USC parts upfront and took several weeks. The question I have is where are they getting new USCs? Since they are no longer available from HK. I think you will eventually get you gun, but I would say you should add at least 5-10 more weeks to the that 10 week figure.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 10:06:09 PM EDT by Spade]
Contact www.tactical-excellence.com

I think they're doing one.


EDIT: I screwed up the URL. I'm looking for it.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:01:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Blackgun, most of these guys have never dealt with Bailey directly. They are spewing what they heard on the internet. There are some guys here that have actual firsthand experience with Todd. SteyrAug is an example. I have purchased a SW5 kit from SW and the conversion unit for the USC from top-notch. Their business model sucks no question. But they will deliver eventually or will give you a refund eventually. Better then ARES and their fabled Shrike if you ask me. I had a deposit and bailed. I really didnt feel like giving them a long term no interest loan. If Todd had a decent personality, they would actually have done a lot better.

The made me pay for the USC parts upfront and took several weeks. The question I have is where are they getting new USCs? Since they are no longer available from HK. I think you will eventually get you gun, but I would say you should add at least 5-10 more weeks to the that 10 week figure.



Thanks ARDOC for the insight. I appreciate it!
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:03:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 10:03:41 PM EDT by Blackgun_Fun]

Originally Posted By Spade:
Contact www.tactical-excellence.com

I think they're doing one.



Thanks... I have contacted them, but they require that you obtain you own UMP lower - and I have not had any luck
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:18:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 10:19:16 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
Fuck that... Most custom shops will ask for a certain percentage to hold your slot, then ask for your gun when your turn comes up, then they contact you with the balance.
All the 'smiths that I have ever dealt with, that want a deposit, do it to order parts that may take weeks to get (ie: Bar-Sto barrels) so they are there when your gun shows up for work.

Sounds like this place wants to make sure they don't have any parts in-stock, which seems pretty "fly-by-night" to me.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:30:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Fuck that... Most custom shops will ask for a certain percentage to hold your slot, then ask for your gun when your turn comes up, then they contact you with the balance.
All the 'smiths that I have ever dealt with, that want a deposit, do it to order parts that may take weeks to get (ie: Bar-Sto barrels) so they are there when your gun shows up for work.

Sounds like this place wants to make sure they don't have any parts in-stock, which seems pretty "fly-by-night" to me.



Thanks for the help
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 10:47:51 PM EDT
I have dealt with toad directly.
I had an mp5 w/ fake can.
NO WARRANTY.
Never buy anything from a manufacturer that does not offer a warranty.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 1:13:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sonofbp:
I have dealt with toad directly.
I had an mp5 w/ fake can.
NO WARRANTY.
Never buy anything from a manufacturer that does not offer a warranty.



Can you tell me more? Is Wade realted to him? Does Todd own Top Notch Parts?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 1:21:43 PM EDT
Wade = brother
Wendy = wife
Bobcat = SW with new owner
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 1:25:18 PM EDT
Just ask yourself if you are Top Notch's bank. If the answer is no, why would you supply no interest cash flow?

Many custom gunsmith's want some up front money, I have never heard of one that want 100%, and I would tell them to stick that proposal. Most of these guys are scraping by and they have a hard time getting the parts needed for a project, so buy them yourself and supply them to the gunsmith as needed. You will also need to hold their feet to the fire on promised delivery dates.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 1:28:27 PM EDT
It will play out like this:

You give them the money now.

They deliver something resembling what they said they would sometime around mid 2007.

You sit in anger and frustration. Once you recieve your gun, it will likely dissapoint in some way. There will be no offer to fix whatever 'issue' you have, and you will be called an asshole for even suggesting they fix the problem.

Good luck with your decision.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 1:32:03 PM EDT
Corporate Inquiry
File Number: -0974266-8
Corp. Name: TOP NOTCH ACCESSORIES, INC


Domestic Address 2155 S PORTER ST
GILBERT, AZ 85296


Statutory Agent Information Agent Name: DOROTHY BAILEY

Agent Mailing/Physical Address:
2155 S PORTER ST
GILBERT, AZ 85296

Agent Status: APPOINTED 01/02/2001
Agent Last Updated: 11/14/2002


Officer and Director Information Name: DOROTHY BAILEY
Title: PRESIDENT/CEO
Address: 2155 S PORTER ST
GILBERT, AZ 85296
Date Assigned: 01/02/2001 Last Updated: 01/06/2004


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