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Posted: 9/27/2004 12:49:29 PM EST
My girlfriend has a 99 Saturn SL2, and it has about 80K on the clock. She has had regular oil changes done evry 3K with a 5W30, but with a conventional oil. Is it too late to make the switch to Mobil 1.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:53:16 PM EST
For the cost -------------- yes.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:55:15 PM EST
It's never 'too late' but if her engine has a slight leak now or seeps quite a bit of oil now. It will seep or leak even more as synthetic gets into places that conventional cannot.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 12:55:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 12:56:23 PM EST by fastang50]
No. You can switch whenever you want, most synthetics are compatable with mineral based oils. The big benefit of making the switch to synthetic is the ability to stretch out your service intervals, assuming a high quality filter. Of course if you want to stretch it too much you'll have to learn some technical oil stuff and do sampling, generally it's not worth it for a single car. I run Mobil 1 in my mustang and only change it once a year, but it's low mileage.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 1:10:29 PM EST
Awhile I did quite a bit of research on this topic here and there on the 'net. Quite a bit of opinions regarding the acutal value of synthetics...but overall I felt the opinion was positive.

The other thing I gathered from my research was that it was a pretty good idea to stay consistent. If you start the car out on a diet of conventional oil, it is a good idea to stay with conventionals and if possible stick with the same brand. Same for synthetics...if you start with synthetics, stay with synthetics and if possible the same brand.

I go for Mobil 1 synthetic for cars that I know of their history, and Valvoline for conventional.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:12:14 PM EST
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:17:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 2:19:37 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.



Like for what advantage ???

Easier starting ? The parts are already so worn it will start easy no matter what.

The cost is like three time the price of regular oil --- for -0- advantage !

Skip it, use regular oil it will be fine.


Vehicles have no taste buds ---------- if it is a certified oil , it will be fine.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:24:57 PM EST
Yes, by all means switch.

For those that compare the cost, you more than get your $$$ back in the fact that you can, assuming you use higher quality filters, go 3-4 times as long between changes.

I have used Mobil 1 for years. You get faster/better oil flow at startup, when a huge percentage of wear occurs. You get cleaner internals, and lower overall internal friction.

When I made the switch, I did a whole lot of research, and before and after I switched I used oil sampling analysis to check. At 500-6000 mineral oil was always getting to the point where it needed changing... at 12k the Mobil 1 was still good.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:26:34 PM EST
ask here ------------- for the real deal



theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:31:14 PM EST
Are going to change the oil yourself? If you are its worth it. You can buy Mobile 1 at wallyworld when its on sale for little more then regular oil. Get a GOOD filter and youre good to go. Change at 7500 to 10000 miles instead of the 3500. It will save you money and improve your performance somewhat. Nothing noticeable but 5% in mpg is not unheard off.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:34:46 PM EST
Wow Cyanide, kick ass board, I think I will like it there... it is definitly right in line with what I do for the Army.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:37:59 PM EST
On a daily driver, synthetic oil isn't necessary. Maintain a good changing schedule, use a good oil filter and oil with the API certification and you'll be all set. I've been changing my oil for my current and previous car and have used only regular dino oil. First car, a Corolla went 176,000 miles and my current Camry is still going strong at 202,000.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:39:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Wow Cyanide, kick ass board, I think I will like it there... it is definitly right in line with what I do for the Army.

Thanks.



Your Welcome friend.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:54:56 PM EST
What filter would you use?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:30:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
What filter would you use?



Your gonna shit but Wal mart filters are rated pretty high

they are made by Champion -- who makes STP and a few others under license -- all made the same.

So I recommend Wal mart brand filters -- even over FRAM. Price is right and filter is made good also.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:31:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.



Like for what advantage ???

Easier starting ? The parts are already so worn it will start easy no matter what.

The cost is like three time the price of regular oil --- for -0- advantage !

Skip it, use regular oil it will be fine.


Vehicles have no taste buds ---------- if it is a certified oil , it will be fine.



Yes, for starting... because synthetics are more durable, you can run a lighter weight in the winter than you ordinarily would and you don't have to worry about the oil breaking down.... it's like syrup as compared to molassess. Lighter weight oils may also offer nominal increase in fuel economy. I had 130K on my VW diesel when I switched to synthetic.... the difference in winter was the difference between being stranded and being toasty warm. Although it is more of an issue with diesels and where winter gets cold, synthetics can absolutely help with starting and fuel economy. Synthetics tend to hold up better at all temperatures. I heartily recommend sythentic as I see it as cheap insurance considering you only need to change your oil every 3k...think about it...you won't even change it 100 times in the life of your vehicle....do the math...cheap insurance...just my amateur opinion
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:38:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 3:42:06 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.



Like for what advantage ???

Easier starting ? The parts are already so worn it will start easy no matter what.

The cost is like three time the price of regular oil --- for -0- advantage !

Skip it, use regular oil it will be fine.


Vehicles have no taste buds ---------- if it is a certified oil , it will be fine.



Yes, for starting... because synthetics are more durable, you can run a lighter weight in the winter than you ordinarily would and you don't have to worry about the oil breaking down.... it's like syrup as compared to molassess. Lighter weight oils may also offer nominal increase in fuel economy. I had 130K on my VW diesel when I switched to synthetic.... the difference in winter was the difference between being stranded and being toasty warm. Although it is more of an issue with diesels and where winter gets cold, synthetics can absolutely help with starting and fuel economy. Synthetics tend to hold up better at all temperatures. I heartily recommend sythentic as I see it as cheap insurance considering you only need to change your oil every 3k...think about it...you won't even change it 100 times in the life of your vehicle....do the math...cheap insurance...just my amateur opinion



A 5W-30 Penzoil oil will flow to like (just off the top of my head) at -40 below just fine

A 5W-30 syn oil Mobil One will flow better at like (again off the top of my head) at -65

if you have to contend with those degrees of cold -- use syn oil. If not save some money. Really Ill. is like what -20 / -30 degrees at the worse / and that is for like what one or two days a year ???

A waste of money . JMO
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:42:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.



Like for what advantage ???

Easier starting ? The parts are already so worn it will start easy no matter what.

The cost is like three time the price of regular oil --- for -0- advantage !

Skip it, use regular oil it will be fine.


Vehicles have no taste buds ---------- if it is a certified oil , it will be fine.



+1 /experienced engine builder.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:45:40 PM EST
My oil pressure is higher when I use Mobil 1. It's good shit.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:48:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By angry_walkin_dude:
My oil pressure is higher when I use Mobil 1. It's good shit.



And you explain that how since it has better (easier) flow rates ???
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:51:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 3:55:56 PM EST by cyanide]
People talk so much bull about syn oils it cracks me up

Sure it won't hurt to use them. Might even help in certain situations.

But for most --- conventional oils changed more frequently would be a lot better.

Not JMO -------------- a fact.

Add in the cost factor ---------- and you have a whole new ball game.
10.00 for Penzoil

22.00 for Mobil One

what do you want in your engine at 8,000 10,000 miles a one time Mobil One full of dust and oxidized

or a fresh load of Penzoil, changed at 3,000 or 4,000 miles --------- whatever makes you feel good. Works for me.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:54:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 4:02:57 PM EST by legalese77]

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.



Like for what advantage ???

Easier starting ? The parts are already so worn it will start easy no matter what.

The cost is like three time the price of regular oil --- for -0- advantage !

Skip it, use regular oil it will be fine.

Vehicles have no taste buds ---------- if it is a certified oil , it will be fine.



Yes, for starting... because synthetics are more durable, you can run a lighter weight in the winter than you ordinarily would and you don't have to worry about the oil breaking down.... it's like syrup as compared to molassess. Lighter weight oils may also offer nominal increase in fuel economy. I had 130K on my VW diesel when I switched to synthetic.... the difference in winter was the difference between being stranded and being toasty warm. Although it is more of an issue with diesels and where winter gets cold, synthetics can absolutely help with starting and fuel economy. Synthetics tend to hold up better at all temperatures. I heartily recommend sythentic as I see it as cheap insurance considering you only need to change your oil every 3k...think about it...you won't even change it 100 times in the life of your vehicle....do the math...cheap insurance...just my amateur opinion



A 5W-30 Penzoil oil will flow to like (just off the top of my head) at -40 below just fine

A 5W-30 syn oil Mobil One will flow better at like (again off the top of my head) at -65

if you have to contend with those degrees of cold -- use syn oil. If not save some money. Really Ill. is like what -20 / -30 degrees at the worse / and that is for like what one or two days a year ???

A waste of money . JMO



Sure you can run a thinner oil and they will flow but then you have decreased time between oil change intervals since the mineral oils will break down more quickly from the temperature extremes. This was a particular concern in my diesel as a diesel thrashes oil...at least my '89 vintage did. In a diesel I can't just run a thin mineral oil because it will not hold up but I can run a thin synthetic and not worry...it simply isn't about comparing 5w30 to 5w30.... and it doesn't need to be negative anything to make a diesel a bear to start. Now I have a new car and I run 0W20 instead of 5W20 for a mileage boost and to reduce wear on the tight tolerance parts. Measurable increased fuel economy and REAL WORLD starting capability are what I'm talking about...not about the viscosity of the oils at -40. I would have paid $10/qt for mobil 1 for that diesel and it would have been worth every penny....this coming from someone who spent a hell of a lot more than 2 zero degree days with 20+ mph winds stranded in Illinois. We don't get a lot of -20 or -30 degree days but I think a lot of people have trouble starting at 0 degrees and we get many many many of those days...last I checked we're still next door to Wisconsin. While many cars have fun many miles on synthetic oil, I have had objectively measurable success with synthetics and again...for as little as you change your oil, it's cheap insurance.

eta: I still change synthetic every 3k, same way I did with mineral....ended up with over 167k on the VW and I saw the guy I sold it to the other day...it's still running.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:58:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
What filter would you use?



I generally stick with the factory filters.

Interesting thread ... Now I'm just waiting for the Amsoil guys to show up.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:02:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By diesel1:
Never too late. It will be great in the winter.



Like for what advantage ???

Easier starting ? The parts are already so worn it will start easy no matter what.

The cost is like three time the price of regular oil --- for -0- advantage !

Skip it, use regular oil it will be fine.

Vehicles have no taste buds ---------- if it is a certified oil , it will be fine.



Yes, for starting... because synthetics are more durable, you can run a lighter weight in the winter than you ordinarily would and you don't have to worry about the oil breaking down.... it's like syrup as compared to molassess. Lighter weight oils may also offer nominal increase in fuel economy. I had 130K on my VW diesel when I switched to synthetic.... the difference in winter was the difference between being stranded and being toasty warm. Although it is more of an issue with diesels and where winter gets cold, synthetics can absolutely help with starting and fuel economy. Synthetics tend to hold up better at all temperatures. I heartily recommend sythentic as I see it as cheap insurance considering you only need to change your oil every 3k...think about it...you won't even change it 100 times in the life of your vehicle....do the math...cheap insurance...just my amateur opinion



A 5W-30 Penzoil oil will flow to like (just off the top of my head) at -40 below just fine

A 5W-30 syn oil Mobil One will flow better at like (again off the top of my head) at -65

if you have to contend with those degrees of cold -- use syn oil. If not save some money. Really Ill. is like what -20 / -30 degrees at the worse / and that is for like what one or two days a year ???

A waste of money . JMO



Sure you can run a thinner oil and they will flow but then you have decreased time between oil change intervals since the mineral oils will break down more quickly from the temperature extremes. This was a particular concern in my diesel as a diesel thrashes oil...at least my '89 vintage did. In a diesel I can't just run a thin mineral oil because it will not hold up but I can run a thin synthetic and not worry...it simply isn't about comparing 5w30 to 5w30.... and it doesn't need to be negative anything to make a diesel a bear to start. Now I have a new car and I run 0W20 instead of 5W20 for a mileage boost and to reduce wear on the tight tolerance parts. Measurable increased fuel economy and REAL WORLD starting capability are what I'm talking about...not about the viscosity of the oils at -40. I would have paid $10/qt for mobil 1 for that diesel and it would have been worth every penny....this coming from someone who spent a hell of a lot more than 2 zero degree days with 20+ mph winds stranded in Illinois. We don't get a lot of -20 or -30 degree days but I think a lot of people have trouble starting at 0 degrees and we get many many many of those days...last I checked we're still next door to Wisconsin. While many cars have fun many miles on synthetic oil, I have had objectively measurable success with synthetics and again...for as little as you change your oil, it's cheap insurance.



A block heater is called for in these circumstances .

That is what I call cheap insurance. A one time purchase and worth it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:06:04 PM EST
no doubt...block heater's the ticket... only I lived at an apartment complex....couldn't exactly run an extension cord 400-500m out to the parking lot...even if I had somebody would have stolen it. even at home it's not practical for me..maybe if I didn't buy all that expensive oil I'd have me a garage by now!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:08:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
no doubt...block heater's the ticket... only I lived at an apartment complex....couldn't exactly run an extension cord 400-500m out to the parking lot...even if I had somebody would have stolen it. even at home it's not practical for me..maybe if I didn't buy all that expensive oil I'd have me a garage by now!

Point taken
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:12:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 4:13:48 PM EST by Planerench]

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By TheRealSundance:
What filter would you use?



Your gonna shit but Wal mart filters are rated pretty high

they are made by Champion -- who makes STP and a few others under license -- all made the same.

So I recommend Wal mart brand filters -- even over FRAM. Price is right and filter is made good also.



Champion makes our aircraft filters; 10x as good as any auto filter. Had a Fram bypass once on a new engine and wipe out a crank. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:37:05 PM EST
DONT SWITCH.... I tried it on my K=5 Blazer @ 50K miles, (AmsOil) . Checked the oil after 1000 miles QUART AND A HALF LOW...WTF ...?? Took several oil changes to get back to near normal, but still uses oil. Never uesd oil before. Bad move, I would advise against it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:50:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Blade409:
DONT SWITCH.... I tried it on my K=5 Blazer @ 50K miles, (AmsOil) . Checked the oil after 1000 miles QUART AND A HALF LOW...WTF ...?? Took several oil changes to get back to near normal, but still uses oil. Never uesd oil before. Bad move, I would advise against it.



That is the oil seal syndrome

Syn oil cleans the seals that were crusty and gunged up and then the engine leaks oil -- this
can be fixed by placing seal conditioners in the oil for awhile. Then again sometimes they are beyond repair 50,000 miles ------- damn they should have been fine -- or you could have used a heavier syn oil.

Still this story is told time and time again by people who change over from conventional oils to syn ????


Just telling the truth here .
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:08:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:
People talk so much bull about syn oils it cracks me up

Sure it won't hurt to use them. Might even help in certain situations.

But for most --- conventional oils changed more frequently would be a lot better.

Not JMO -------------- a fact.

Add in the cost factor ---------- and you have a whole new ball game.
10.00 for Penzoil

22.00 for Mobil One

what do you want in your engine at 8,000 10,000 miles a one time Mobil One full of dust and oxidized

or a fresh load of Penzoil, changed at 3,000 or 4,000 miles --------- whatever makes you feel good. Works for me.



I guess it depends on your driving too-- I hit that 10k mark in less time than most folks would hit 3k, heck I went over 3k in a week last month.

That said, all the oil sample results I had (granted, these were 10 years ago todays are much better) the Mobil 1 at 10k was in at least as good shape if not better than the mineral oil at 3k.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:13:13 PM EST
Not in my opinion. I have three older cars all bought used with significant miles on them. I switched all three to synthetic and I really like it for the peace of mind. Only one of the three cars loses some oil (about a quart) between changes and that oil is being burned.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:19:21 PM EST
I prefer to use synthetic because I can never seem to hold to a 3-5K change schedule. I always end up closer to 7-8K interval. For that reason, I enjoy knowing I'm not driving on broken down oil. If you can be disciplined about your change interval, you can live with conventional.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:20:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 5:22:39 PM EST by angry_walkin_dude]

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By angry_walkin_dude:
My oil pressure is higher when I use Mobil 1. It's good shit.



And you explain that how since it has better (easier) flow rates ???


"Who knows how a posi-track on a Plymouth works......it just does!"

It's higher because the little orange needle inside of my AutoMeter oil pressure gauge says so.



Maybe this happened. I don't know why the pressure is higher, it just is.





"I am considering replacing the mineral oil in my engine with a synthetic oil. The engine has 50,000 miles on it. I have heard that the mineral oil and synthetic oil are compatible. Is this true?"

Generally, the reference to synthetic oil for an engine, means a lubricant is formulated with a polyalphaolefin (PAO) base oil. PAO, which is often called synthesized hydrocarbon, is pure and is compatible with mineral base oils.

However, because the PAO base oil does not dissolve additives effectively, it is usually formulated with an ester co-base (usually di-ester and/or polyol ester). The additives are soluble with the ester and the ester is soluble with the PAO.

Likewise, the PAO tends to cause seal shrinkage and the ester causes seal swelling, so the effects are offset when both base oils are present. It is the ester that can cause problems when one changes from mineral to synthetic. Ester base oil used alongside PAO base oil in lubricant formulation has excellent natural detergency. In other words, it will clean up varnish on component surfaces as a result of thermal and oxidative degradation of the lubricant. When one switches from a typical mineral-based engine oil to a typical synthetic-based oil, the varnish layer will be removed by the ester in the synthetic oil and become suspended.

This suspended material can rapidly clog filters and can block oil flow passageways and lead to component starvation. The same is true for gearboxes and other industrial machines. So think twice about switching to synthetic oils in applications where the engine or other machine has been operating for some time with mineral oils. If you decide to make the switch, try to clean the system before making the change, then monitor it carefully once you start it up.

Drew Troyer, Noria Corporation



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